How are you supposed to practice?

Silverman.

My question is how are learner drivers expected to practice when the must always have a full licence holder accompanied.
I am on my second learner permit and would be able to drive by myself.
However, it is very difficult to practice for my test though as the full licence holders I know are regularly busy. I think a person could be allowed to drive on their own if they are on their second learner permit like it used to be.
Its well known that plenty of people drive on their own while still a learner and also pass their tests because of this.

DA7800

For what it's worth, I think that the law is perfectly adequate and makes sense. Sure, you may be able to drive on your own if you were allowed to, but somebody who is just starting out certainly won't be, and in the eyes of the law you're both qualified to an equal standard. Surely if you're entirely capable of driving on your own, you're capable of passing a test?

Driving is driving, and while it may help to be familiar with the area you plan to sit your test in, if you're in any way as competent as you're claiming to be, you can drive well on any road and pass with minimal practice. A licence is a privilege, not a right.

Some people manage just fine without any practice. I didn't have practice any outside of my EDT, because I didn't have a car and I couldn't afford to stretch for insurance. I managed to pass on my first attempt. You are obviously in a much better position.

I might sound condescending, and this might have been unhelpful, but some perspective always helps. If you say you're capable, then prove it. Only then will you be entitled to drive unaccompanied. Best of luck with your future driving endeavours.

Silverman.

DA7800 wrote:

For what it's worth, I think that the law is perfectly adequate and makes sense. Sure, you may be able to drive on your own if you were allowed to, but somebody who is just starting out certainly won't be, and in the eyes of the law you're both qualified to an equal standard. Surely if you're entirely capable of driving on your own, you're capable of passing a test?

DA7800 wrote:

Driving is driving, and while it may help to be familiar with the area you plan to sit your test in, if you're in any way as competent as you're claiming to be, you can drive well on any road and pass with minimal practice. A licence is a privilege, not a right.

DA7800 wrote:

Some people manage just fine without any practice. I didn't have practice any outside of my EDT, because I didn't have a car and I couldn't afford to stretch for insurance. I managed to pass on my first attempt. You are obviously in a much better position.

DA7800 wrote:

I might sound condescending, and this might have been unhelpful, but some perspective always helps. If you say you're capable, then prove it. Only then will you be entitled to drive unaccompanied. Best of luck with your future driving endeavours.

I said second learners permit which is two years of driving.
You know full well that it isn't black and white. Busy city driving is completely different to rural driving which is what I do. Not everyone is lucky enough to pass only from lessons.

Pro Hoc Vice

Silverman. wrote: »

I said second learners permit which is two years of driving.
You know full well that it isn't black and white. Busy city driving is completely different to rural driving which is what I do. Not everyone is lucky enough to pass only from lessons.

A person could have a second permit and never driven, a person could have a second permit and failed the test. It's awkward but lots of things are awkward, I know it seems catch 22 but once you pass the test you will forget about the trials and tribulations of getting the pink licence.

TG1

I actually think those who drive on their own are less likely to pass. From my own peer group who did our tests at the same time it was the three who never ever drove on their own that passed first time.

My theory is the others allowed themselves to develop bad habits. I did my test a few years ago now but I was only driving during my lessons and at the weekend when my dad or brother could be in the car with me. I passed. It's very doable...

Silverman.

Pro Hoc Vice wrote:

A person could have a second permit and never driven, a person could have a second permit and failed the test. It's awkward but lots of things are awkward, I know it seems catch 22 but once you pass the test you will forget about the trials and tribulations of getting the pink licence.

True but I pay attention to the law and am struggling due to my lack of practice while ones who are driving away unaccompanied are flying when they sit their test.

Pro Hoc Vice

Silverman. wrote: »

True but I pay attention to the law and am struggling due to my lack of practice while ones who are driving away unaccompanied are flying when they sit their test.

Have you applied? I know it's 6 months before a person can apply an max wait time is 3 months, so sitting first test is very doable in 12 months which even allows a resit.

Silverman.

Pro Hoc Vice wrote:

Have you applied?

Have and failed twice. All over stupid things.

Pro Hoc Vice

Silverman. wrote: »

Have and failed twice. All over stupid things.

I'm not going to rise to that bait.

Del2005

Silverman. wrote: »

Have and failed twice. All over stupid things.

So you've been proven twice incapable of meeting the rather low standard to pass our test yet consider yourself capable of driving on your own. If you can't find someone with a full license then you'll have to pay for more lessons, they might even help you to pass.

Silverman.

Del2005 wrote:

So you've been proven twice incapable of meeting the rather low standard to pass our test yet consider yourself capable of driving on your own. If you can't find someone with a full license then you'll have to pay for more lessons, they might even help you to pass.

Low standard? Don't be an ass now.

Pro Hoc Vice

Silverman. wrote: »

Low standard? Don't be an ass now.

For 53% of people it is http://www.rsa.ie/en/RSA/Learner-Drivers/The-Driving-Test/Driving-Test-Centre/Pass-Rates/

punisher5112

The only thing I find bizarre is the 6 months limit the rest is to easy to be honest.

Test should consist of day and night driving and motorway or at very least dual carriage way.

Roundabout use and all controls are known by driver.

Also skid testing would be a great skill to have.

Silverman.

And I wonder out of those figures how many drive unaccompanied. I am in my twenties and I know an absolute pile of people that do it.

Silverman.

sugarman wrote:

Hows it being an ass?

No I meant, he was being an ass. For the way he worded his post to a guy that was frustrated at their lack of practice and two failed attempts.

Handsome Brute

I'm going to be rude here in saying that I managed to do it and so did many others obeying the law. Its very possible and simple.

If you fail how do you expect to pass if you keep driving by yourself with no feedback making the same mistakes that cost you your test. I swear some people think driving is a God given right and the system must work around them when its actually a privilege and must be earned through a comprehensive structure of training and practice.

Talk about start as you mean to go on by breaking the law in your first few years of driving on a daily basis.

Silverman.

punisher5112 wrote:

Test should consist of day and night driving and motorway or at very least dual carriage way.

Handsome Brute wrote:

I'm going to be rude here in saying that I managed to do it and so did many others obeying the law. Its very possible and simple.

Handsome Brute wrote:

If you fail how do you expect to pass if you keep driving by yourself with no feedback making the same mistakes that cost you your test. I swear some people think driving is a God given right and the system must work around them when its actually a privilege and must be earned through a comprehensive structure of training and practice.

Handsome Brute wrote:

Talk about start as you mean to go on by breaking the law in your first few years of driving on a daily basis.

And half the people driving now wouldn't pass their test nowadays. Doesn't mean they are a danger on the road per we.
Also its stupid to think that a lot of people passes the test without driving on their own while practicing. Sure nearly all people in their 20's do it nowadays.

brightspark

Silverman. wrote: »

My question is how are learner drivers expected to practice when the must always have a full licence holder accompanied.
I am on my second learner permit and would be able to drive by myself.
However, it is very difficult to practice for my test though as the full licence holders I know are regularly busy. I think a person could be allowed to drive on their own if they are on their second learner permit like it used to be.
Its well known that plenty of people drive on their own while still a learner and also pass their tests because of this.

If you need to practice more than you obviously aren't competent to drive on your own.

Do you really think it's a good idea to have people who can't pass the test driving unsupervised?

Handsome Brute

Silverman. wrote: »

And half the people driving now wouldn't pass their test nowadays. Doesn't mean they are a danger on the road per we.
Also its stupid to think that a lot of people passes the test without driving on their own while practicing. Sure nearly all people in their 20's do it nowadays.

Your attitude is great. Bring the standard down even though road deaths are still very much a reality in Ireland on a weekly basis. Why do you expect to be treated differently to me? I made accommodations to do my lessons after work, go out evenings with my father and at weekends and practice until I had it correct and knew I could get it first time.

Silverman.

brightspark wrote:

If you need to practice more than you obviously aren't competent to drive on your own.

brightspark wrote:

Do you really think it's a good idea to have people who can't pass the test driving unsupervised?

I just need to practice close control around towns. Something that an accompanied driver won't be really able to help me with.

No but I haven't a clue how to get the practice in when I've got nobody to practice with. Can't afford anymore lessons.

Silverman.

Handsome Brute wrote:

Your attitude is great. Bring the standard down even though road deaths are still very much a reality in Ireland on a weekly basis. Why do you expect to be treated differently to me? I made accommodations to do my lessons after work, go out evenings with my father and at weekends and practice until I had it correct and knew I could get it first time.

When did I say bring the standard down. You just sound deluded if you think the majority of people pass their test driving solely legally.

Reati

Silverman. wrote: »

And half the people driving now wouldn't pass their test nowadays. Doesn't mean they are a danger on the road per we.
Also its stupid to think that a lot of people passes the test without driving on their own while practicing. Sure nearly all people in their 20's do it nowadays.

I hear this attitude a lot from friends and people I work with and it annoys me to no end.

Things like: X and Y do a crap job so why I am told off for doing a crap job or People on the road are bad drivers so I should be let off with been a bad driver or everyone else is driving with no full licensed driver so why am I getting a ticket Mr Garda?

Silverman - you're the one who has a test to pass not them. No one elses driving matters expect yours. That's how the system works. If you don't make the standard, then you fail. Not liking it doesn't make it go away.

Silverman.

Reati wrote:

I hear this attitude a lot from friends and people I work with and it annoys me to no end.

Reati wrote:

Things like: X and Y do a crap job so why I am told off for doing a crap job or People on the road are bad drivers so I should be let off with been a bad driver or everyone else is driving with no full licensed driver so why am I getting a ticket Mr Garda?

Reati wrote:

Silverman - you're the one who has a test to pass not them. No one elses driving matters expect yours. That's how the system works. If you don't make the standard, then you fail. Not liking it doesn't make it go away.

Cheers, that post helps my predicament.

Handsome Brute

I think a person could be allowed to drive on their own if they are on their second learner permit like it used to be.

That is bringing the standard down. It was set that you must have a full licence holder with you even on your second permit to drive so you could learn a thing or two.

Deluded? Most people break a traffic law now and again but every time you drive on your own you are breaking the law so that would be most of the time I'm guessing?

Silverman.

Handsome Brute wrote:

Deluded? Most people break a traffic law now and again but every time you drive on your own you are breaking the law so that would be most of the time I'm guessing?

I don't drive on my own. But any learner drivers I know, ALL drive on their own and there's a lot of them.

brightspark

Silverman. wrote: »

I just need to practice close control around towns. Something that an accompanied driver won't be really able to help me with.

No but I haven't a clue how to get the practice in when I've got nobody to practice with. Can't afford anymore lessons.

Close control around towns? You mean where kids and other pedestrians are most at risk. With experience comes anticipation, being able to foresee situations before it's too late.

If you can't afford lessons you are going to find keeping a car even more onerous.

Reati

Silverman. wrote: »

Cheers, that post helps my predicament.

If you'd drop the "woes me" viewpoint it actually does but let's play the long game.

What do you actually want from this thread?

Silverman.

brightspark wrote:

Close control around towns? You mean where kids and other pedestrians are most at risk. With experience comes anticipation, being able to foresee situations before it's too late.

So how are people not knocked down constantly every day with the amount of learner drivers driving unaccompanied.

Silverman.

Reati wrote:

If you'd drop the "woes me" viewpoint it actually does but let's play the long game.

Still doesn't cos ya sound quite big headed adding in you've passed the test first time.

Handsome Brute

Silverman. wrote: »

Still doesn't cos ya sound quite big headed adding in you've passed the test first time.

We passed first time because we put time and practice into it and we also made sure not to drag our provisional licenses into the next decade picking up bad habits. Passing your test first time isn't a lotto draw.

hognef

Silverman. wrote: »

When did I say bring the standard down. You just sound deluded if you think the majority of people pass their test driving solely legally.

In most other civilized countries, nobody drives around 'learning' on their own, because rules actually tend to be policed. Learners in those countries pay for their lessons until they're competent enough to pass the test. Not being able to afford more lessons is not an argument -- if you can't afford lessons then how the hell will you be able to afford to run a car?

Why on earth should it be any different here? I think it's time to scrap the provisional licence--too many seem to think it's actually a licence. At least remove the word 'licence' from the name.

Silverman.

Handsome Brute wrote:

We passed first time because we put time and practice into it and we also made sure not to drag our provisional licenses into the next decade picking up bad habits. Passing your test first time isn't a lotto draw.

There ya go again. I'd appreciate no more replies from you.

Reati

Silverman. wrote: »

Still doesn't cos ya sound quite big headed adding in you've passed the test first time.

I did lessons. I drove with experienced drivers. I didn't drive alone. I didn't moan online about it. I did pass first time in Carlow, which had one of the lowest pass rates (36% at the time IIRC.)

You've ignored the question so again, What do you want from this thread?

Handsome Brute

Silverman. wrote: »

There ya go again. I'd appreciate no more replies from you.

I'd appreciate if you could stop breaking the law like a good man and do the process correctly. Did you honestly expect approval from this? You will go on to follow ''all the other lads with provisional licences'' like a sheep no doubt.

brightspark

Silverman. wrote: »

There ya go again. I'd appreciate no more replies from you.

You came here expecting everyone to say it's ok for you to go ahead break the law, endanger the people around you it doesn't matter because you think others do it?

Others shoplift because they can't afford to buy things, does that mean it's ok to do it?

It's easy to find examples of others breaking the law, it's not a justification for everyone to break the law.

There won't be anymore replies from me either...and I won't bother looking to see if you reply to this.

Silverman.

Handsome Brute wrote:

I'd appreciate if you could stop breaking the law like a good man and do the process correctly. Did you honestly expect approval from this? You will go on to follow ''all the other lads with provisional licences'' like a sheep no doubt.

I don't drive unaccompanied but great reply. Cheers

Silverman.

brightspark wrote:

You came here expecting everyone to say it's ok for you to go ahead break the law, endanger the people around you it doesn't matter because you think others do it?

brightspark wrote:

Others shoplift because they can't afford to buy things, does that mean it's ok to do it?

brightspark wrote:

It's easy to find examples of others breaking the law, it's not a justification for everyone to break the law.

brightspark wrote:

There won't be anymore replies from me either...and I won't bother looking to see if you reply to this.

Haha cheers. Good on ya.

Pro Hoc Vice

Silverman. wrote: »

I just need to practice close control around towns. Something that an accompanied driver won't be really able to help me with.

No but I haven't a clue how to get the practice in when I've got nobody to practice with. Can't afford anymore lessons.

If you can't afford anymore lessons you can't afford to drive. i would love to do lots of things I can't afford but you know what that's life. Part of the expences of driving is paying to learn, insurance, tax, servicing, fuel, NCT etc.

MarkAnthony

64 million people (okay minus the ones under 17 or never bothered to learn) manage it in the UK.

FWIW I actually think that we should allow Learner Permit drivers to drive on their own with a number of restrictions such as no peak time driving in designated zones, no driving after dark etc. but that's just me.

Many people, myself included, drove on our L plates, however the law has now changed with the guards able to issue FPNs. (Fixed Penalty). It's going to be a darn sight more expensive to get up and running with points than it is to pay a driving instructor.

While I understand you're frustrated, the Irish test is unbelievably easy to pass. There is almost zero hazard perception - if you've failed it twice you simply don't meet the standard to be driving on your own.

Reati

Silverman. wrote: »

I don't drive unaccompanied but great reply. Cheers

3rd try the charm, perhaps?

Instead of the snarky replies, how about telling us what you'd like from the thread and how people here can help?

Silverman.

Reati wrote:

3rd try the charm, perhaps?

Reati wrote:

Instead of the snarky replies, how about telling us what you'd like from the thread and how people here can help?

Thought I said I didn't want any replies from you.

MarkAnthony

Pro Hoc Vice wrote: »

If you can't afford anymore lessons you can't afford to drive. i would love to do lots of things I can't afford but you know what that's life. Part of the expences of driving is paying to learn, insurance, tax, servicing, fuel, NCT etc.

This can't be underscored enough. It's not just getting passed the test you have to maintain the car and have the correct insurance etc. in place. You're driving around a lethal weapon with the potential to cause serious harm. It's only fair that a) You're competent b) You minimise risk c) You have insurance inplace if all else fails.

Reati

Silverman. wrote: »

Thought I said I didn't want any replies from you.

No, that was someone else but let me help you understand how it works on the internet (can also be applied to the real world)

You came on here wanting everyone to pat you on the back and tell you how hard done by you are. You want everyone to say, go ahead drive alone. It's not your fault you've failed twice. No, it's the bad testers fault.

People then said, actually no, that not how it works. There is a system in place and you need to follow it. Even if others don't. So now, you are throwing your toys out of your pram and telling people to stop replying. It's really childish, makes sense why you're having problems understanding the great feedback you've gotten so fair.

Anyway, you can either ask for help and help people understand what you are after or you can continue to post snarky comments and people will tell you why you are wrong. Don't worry though, we'll all keep replying

123 LC

Do you live with people with licenses? Offer to drive them whenever they're going shopping etc..or if they're dropping you somewhere, you should drive in that direction and they can talk the car home. Surely you can manage to drive at least once or twice a week?

Like others - I never drove unaccompanied, and basically followed everything my instructor told me. I didn't do much driving outside of my lessons at all. I definitely wasn't a natural driver when I did my test - that came after when I could drive more, but with the Irish driving test I think it's very passable on minimum experience to be honest - you'll get it!!

Silverman.

Reati wrote:

No, that was someone else but let me help you understand how it works on the internet (can also be applied to the real world)

Reati wrote:

You came on here waiting everyone to pat you on the back and tell you how hard done by you are. You want everyone to say, go ahead drive alone. It's not your fault you've failed twice. No, it's the bad testers fault.

Reati wrote:

People then said, actually no, that not how it works. You are now throwing your toys out of your pram and telling people to stop replying. It's really childish, makes sense why you're having problems understanding the great feedback you've gotten so fair.

Reati wrote:

Anyway, you can either ask for help and help people understand what you are after or you can continue to post snarky comments and people will tell you why you are wrong. Don't worry though, we'll all keep replying

Bet ye get bored before I do.

Silverman.

123 LC wrote:

Do you live with people with licenses? Offer to drive them whenever they're going shopping etc..or if they're dropping you somewhere, you should drive in that direction and they can talk the car home. Surely you can manage to drive at least once or twice a week?

123 LC wrote:

Like others - I never drove unaccompanied, and basically followed everything my instructor told me. I didn't do much driving outside of my lessons at all. I definitely wasn't a natural driver when I did my test - that came after when I could drive more, but with the Irish driving test I think it's very passable on minimum experience to be honest - you'll get it!!

Cheers man.

Reati

Silverman. wrote: »

Bet ye get bored before I do.

That's the attitude that get's you places in life! If you focused your energy on passing the test you might get somewhere on the 3rd or 4th try.

Silverman.

Reati wrote:

That's the attitude that get's you places in life! If you focused your energy on passing the test you might get somewhere on the 3rd or 4th try.

Was wondering when the passive aggressiveness was gonna rare its ugly head with you. Didn't take long.

Pro Hoc Vice

Silverman. wrote: »

Bet ye get bored before I do.

I can now understand a tester failing you. You are always right even when you are wrong. I blame parents no you child is not Picasso no your child can't sing no your child can't drive and I know daddy your little prince or princess really deserves to drive but if he or she would actually listen. I can also now understand why you can get anyone to take you out driving. You must be a joy to correct when you make a mistake.

Silverman.

Pro Hoc Vice wrote:

I can now understand a tester failing you. You are always right even when you are wrong. I blame parents no you child is not Picasso no your child can't sing no your child can't drive and I know daddy your little prince or princess really deserves to drive but if he or she would actually listen. I can also now understand why you can get anyone to take you out driving. You must be a joy to correct when you make a mistake.

Woah, calm down.

Pro Hoc Vice

Silverman. wrote: »

Was wondering when the passive aggressiveness was gonna rare its ugly head with you. Didn't take long.

Seriously you have been given good advice but you are right no matter, well numerous posters passed test first time many have incident free driving behind them what's your reaction to accuse people of being passive aggressive all because you don't like what they say.