HGVs on secondary roads

deravarra

Yesterday, I was travelling between Roscrea and Mountrath. I was on a secondary road and for a distance of approx 6 miles, held up behind a truck doing about 40 kph for the most part. While it was impossible to pass for most of this, it would have been safe for the driver of the truck to let me pass on 2-3 occasions, but the driver chose not to.
I felt the driver may not have seen me, so I did not flash the truck from the rear, but pulled out a little to let them see me in their rear view mirror. At this, the truck driver stopped, got out, waved his arms frantically and asked what I thought I was doing. I said I thought they didnt see me and was letting him know I was there so that he may pull in on a safe stretch for no more than 5 seconds and allow me pass. No such luck.

Was I being unreasonable? Or was I just unlucky to be stuck behind this truck?

jamo2oo9

deravarra wrote: »

Yesterday, I was travelling between Roscrea and Mountrath. I was on a secondary road and for a distance of approx 6 miles, held up behind a truck doing about 40 kph for the most part. While it was impossible to pass for most of this, it would have been safe for the driver of the truck to let me pass on 2-3 occasions, but the driver chose not to.
I felt the driver may not have seen me, so I did not flash the truck from the rear, but pulled out a little to let them see me in their rear view mirror. At this, the truck driver stopped, got out, waved his arms frantically and asked what I thought I was doing. I said I thought they didnt see me and was letting him know I was there so that he may pull in on a safe stretch for no more than 5 seconds and allow me pass. No such luck.

Was I being unreasonable? Or was I just unlucky to be stuck behind this truck?

You might consider it safe but he might not.

Roadhawk

deravarra wrote: »

Yesterday, I was travelling between Roscrea and Mountrath. I was on a secondary road and for a distance of approx 6 miles, held up behind a truck doing about 40 kph for the most part. While it was impossible to pass for most of this, it would have been safe for the driver of the truck to let me pass on 2-3 occasions, but the driver chose not to.
I felt the driver may not have seen me, so I did not flash the truck from the rear, but pulled out a little to let them see me in their rear view mirror. At this, the truck driver stopped, got out, waved his arms frantically and asked what I thought I was doing. I said I thought they didnt see me and was letting him know I was there so that he may pull in on a safe stretch for no more than 5 seconds and allow me pass. No such luck.

Was I being unreasonable? Or was I just unlucky to be stuck behind this truck?

Most HGV drivers will pull into the hard shoulder to let traffic behind pass but the problem is if there is a string of cars behind then the truck may get stuck in the hard shoulder until they all pass. Also with it being summer there tends to be more activity in the hard shoulder from farmers, pedestrians, cyclists etc.

On the other hand HGVs are supposed to be limited at 80km so if he was only doing 40km my guess is that he was over his max weight limit. No harm in calling the local Garda station to report. Ask them to send a car out...the worst they can say is no

deravarra

jamo2oo9 wrote: »

You might consider it safe but he might not.

There was plenty of room on a number of different parts of the stretch of road I had travelled. The truck driver either didn't know I was there, or did and just couldnt be bothered pulling over for the 5 seconds it would have taken for me to pass.

I am hazarding a guess and suggesting it was the second option.

BigCon

The bigger issue is that of HGVs coming off the M7 in Roscrea or Borris-in-Ossory before going back onto it in Portlaoise just to avoid the toll.
I'd estimate 80%+ of the HGVs on this road should be using the motorway...

Rubberchikken

where's the harm in just driving behind him. it would hardly have been hundreds of miles before the road widened/whatever.
you had to stop (and waste time) when he pulled up to see what you were doing. too much effort imo.
people are in way too much of a rush nowadays. for what.

Tarabuses

deravarra wrote: »

Yesterday, I was travelling between Roscrea and Mountrath. I was on a secondary road and for a distance of approx 6 miles, held up behind a truck doing about 40 kph for the most part. While it was impossible to pass for most of this, it would have been safe for the driver of the truck to let me pass on 2-3 occasions, but the driver chose not to.
I felt the driver may not have seen me, so I did not flash the truck from the rear, but pulled out a little to let them see me in their rear view mirror. At this, the truck driver stopped, got out, waved his arms frantically and asked what I thought I was doing. I said I thought they didnt see me and was letting him know I was there so that he may pull in on a safe stretch for no more than 5 seconds and allow me pass. No such luck.

Was I being unreasonable? Or was I just unlucky to be stuck behind this truck?

It seems strange that he reacted as you say when you pulled out a little behind him. I presume you had not attempted to overtake?

Melodeon

The Roscrea-Mountrath road is the R445.
Before being bypassed by the M7, it was the N7, the National trunk route between Dublin and Limerick.
Between Roscrea and Mountrath, it's a fine wide modern (100km/h limit) road with hard shoulders along much of its length with plenty of excellent overtaking opportunities.
I find it hard to conceive of how anyone could be stuck for 6 miles behind another vehicle doing 40km/h on this road.

ted1

Didn't they make it illegal to pull into the hard shoulder, this they legally can't do it

savagethegoat

I'm guessing you felt he should pull over for you but he thought you had lots of room to pass him and wondered why you hadn't.

deravarra

BigCon wrote: »

The bigger issue is that of HGVs coming off the M7 in Roscrea or Borris-in-Ossory before going back onto it in Portlaoise just to avoid the toll.
I'd estimate 80%+ of the HGVs on this road should be using the motorway...

The guy was a local and based near mountrath. He was close to home

deravarra

Rubberchikken wrote: »

where's the harm in just driving behind him. it would hardly have been hundreds of miles before the road widened/whatever.
you had to stop (and waste time) when he pulled up to see what you were doing. too much effort imo.
people are in way too much of a rush nowadays. for what.

Well, for 5-6 miles at 40kph, it would have been a bit much. Yes, people are in too much of a rush nowadays... and I was in a bit of a rush. But I shouldn't have to wait behind a much slower vehicle for such a long time

deravarra

savagethegoat wrote: »

I'm guessing you felt he should pull over for you but he thought you had lots of room to pass him and wondered why you hadn't.

No, he told me there was no room to overtake. And there wasn't on the stretch of road where he had stopped. But there was earlier if he had pulled in a little to allow me to do so.

deravarra

ted1 wrote: »

Didn't they make it illegal to pull into the hard shoulder, this they legally can't do it

So the lorry driver obeyed the rules of the road? A first surely

deravarra

Melodeon wrote: »

The Roscrea-Mountrath road is the R445.
Before being bypassed by the M7, it was the N7, the National trunk route between Dublin and Limerick.
Between Roscrea and Mountrath, it's a fine wide modern (100km/h limit) road with hard shoulders along much of its length with plenty of excellent overtaking opportunities.
I find it hard to conceive of how anyone could be stuck for 6 miles behind another vehicle doing 40km/h on this road.

I was off the R445 for this part of the journey. A place called castletown.

savagethegoat

it's really hard to believe that you couldn't get past a 40km/h vehicle for 6 miles on an ex-N road.

deravarra

Tarabuses wrote: »

deravarra wrote: »

Yesterday, I was travelling between Roscrea and Mountrath. I was on a secondary road and for a distance of approx 6 miles, held up behind a truck doing about 40 kph for the most part. While it was impossible to pass for most of this, it would have been safe for the driver of the truck to let me pass on 2-3 occasions, but the driver chose not to.
I felt the driver may not have seen me, so I did not flash the truck from the rear, but pulled out a little to let them see me in their rear view mirror. At this, the truck driver stopped, got out, waved his arms frantically and asked what I thought I was doing. I said I thought they didnt see me and was letting him know I was there so that he may pull in on a safe stretch for no more than 5 seconds and allow me pass. No such luck.

Was I being unreasonable? Or was I just unlucky to be stuck behind this truck?

It seems strange that he reacted as you say when you pulled out a little behind him. I presume you had not attempted to overtake?

No. I just wanted to let him know I was behind him. Thought he might have not seen me up to then.

deravarra

savagethegoat wrote: »

it's really hard to believe that you couldn't get past a 40km/h vehicle for 6 miles on an ex-N road.

It wasn't the R445 - it was a small road off the R445. There was a point where he was turning right and he slowed down to a grinding halt, as if to let me go ahead. I paused for a while and he had his indicator on showing he was turning left. So I went to overtake and turn to the right at this point. Then he revved up and turned right and beeped at me for attempting the right turn.
Not sure what he was trying to do, but it certainly wouldn't have been out of a truck driver's manual

gctest50

deravarra wrote: »

It wasn't the R445 - it was a small road off the R445. There was a point where he was turning right and he slowed down to a grinding halt, as if to let me go ahead. I paused for a while and he had his indicator on showing he was turning left. So I went to overtake and turn to the right at this point. Then he revved up and turned right and beeped at me for attempting the right turn.
Not sure what he was trying to do, but it certainly wouldn't have been out of a truck driver's manual

If you're sure of this, maybe a wiring fault, left indicator on when it should be right


Happens in all sort of things , eg :

.

Melodeon

deravarra wrote: »

I was off the R445 for this part of the journey. A place called castletown.

I know it well

The part of the Roscrea - Mountrath journey that takes you off the R445 and through Castletown, then rejoining the R445 to head to Mountrath, is a total of 850 meters in length.
It's a detour off the main road that adds 250 meters to the journey.
That's a pretty small portion of the "6 miles" you were unable to overtake.

foggy_lad

deravarra wrote: »

There was plenty of room on a number of different parts of the stretch of road I had travelled. The truck driver either didn't know I was there, or did and just couldnt be bothered pulling over for the 5 seconds it would have taken for me to pass.

I am hazarding a guess and suggesting it was the second option.

{Plenty of room according to you, but the lorry driver had better visibility and was driving within the speed limit and not breaking the law. He had no obligation to pull over for you and certainly should not have pulled onto the hard shoulder to allow you to pass.

deravarra wrote: »

Well, for 5-6 miles at 40kph, it would have been a bit much. Yes, people are in too much of a rush nowadays... and I was in a bit of a rush. But I shouldn't have to wait behind a much slower vehicle for such a long time

What makes you so special that you should not have to obey the rules of the road and wait behind slower moving traffic when it is not safe to pass?

deravarra wrote: »

No, he told me there was no room to overtake. And there wasn't on the stretch of road where he had stopped. But there was earlier if he had pulled in a little to allow me to do so.

No other road user is obliged to pull over to allow people to pass them except under certain conditions which were not really met on this occasion.

AMKC

deravarra wrote: »

It wasn't the R445 - it was a small road off the R445. There was a point where he was turning right and he slowed down to a grinding halt, as if to let me go ahead. I paused for a while and he had his indicator on showing he was turning left. So I went to overtake and turn to the right at this point. Then he revved up and turned right and beeped at me for attempting the right turn.
Not sure what he was trying to do, but it certainly wouldn't have been out of a truck driver's manual

Sounds like he was having a bad day and is also a dangerous driver certainly not someone who should be driving a lorry. If there is nothing wrong with how his indicators are wired up it is dangerous driving and if they were wired wrong then thats faulty wiring on his truck. He could cause a crash with that truck and his dangerous driving or faulty wiring.

Cookie_Monster

I'm confused. you were following him for 6 miles on an 850m long road and he was doing 40 but was actually stopped when you went to overtake?

deravarra

Cookie_Monster wrote: »

I'm confused. you were following him for 6 miles on an 850m long road and he was doing 40 but was actually stopped when you went to overtake?

You are confused. I didnt go to overtake. I was letting him know I was behind him.

I had been behind him for between 5 and 6 miles, coming out of roscrea. The stretch that he pulled into was 850m long - this, I did not know when I pulled in there. He had ample time to pull over on many occasions prior to this, but refused to and decided to keep me behind him for all that time.

Not very nice

deravarra

foggy_lad wrote: »

{Plenty of room according to you, but the lorry driver had better visibility and was driving within the speed limit and not breaking the law. He had no obligation to pull over for you and certainly should not have pulled onto the hard shoulder to allow you to pass.

What makes you so special that you should not have to obey the rules of the road and wait behind slower moving traffic when it is not safe to pass?

No other road user is obliged to pull over to allow people to pass them except under certain conditions which were not really met on this occasion.

Of course he had no obligation to pull over - but it would have been mannerly to do so when it was safe - which it was on at least 3 different occasions.
What makes me so special that ... etc ... I never said I shouldnt have to wait behind slower moving traffic when it is not safe to pass. But it is unrealistic that I should have to trapse behind a guy truck for approximately 5-6 miles when they were going around 40kph.
Sure, no other road user is obliged to pull over, etc - but it is manners and courtesy that would tell you that it's not good to have someone trapsing behind you for such a long distance. I certainly would never force someone to do that. Pull in when it's safe would have been the right thing to do ... but he didn't - and got agitated and aggressive when he alighted from his truck.

deravarra

Melodeon wrote: »

I know it well

The part of the Roscrea - Mountrath journey that takes you off the R445 and through Castletown, then rejoining the R445 to head to Mountrath, is a total of 850 meters in length.
It's a detour off the main road that adds 250 meters to the journey.
That's a pretty small portion of the "6 miles" you were unable to overtake.

That was the part where the guy alighted from his truck. Not the whole 5-6 miles I was stuck behind him.
Some lengths of road beforehand was ok to pass if he hadn't hogged the middle of the road. The guy obviously didn't care for other users on the road. As long as he was ok, that was good enough for him

deravarra

gctest50 wrote: »

If you're sure of this, maybe a wiring fault, left indicator on when it should be right


Happens in all sort of things , eg :

Would have been grand if they didnt work correctly, but they did. I had been behind him for a few miles and saw him using both indicators. Once to overtake, and another to pull in to the left.

stoneill

You wanted a vehicle in front of you to leave the carriageway so you could get past?

the_syco

You were behind him for 5 or 6 miles, and couldn't overtake, and somehow the driver in front was at fault for not breaking the law?

deravarra

the_syco wrote: »

You were behind him for 5 or 6 miles, and couldn't overtake, and somehow the driver in front was at fault for not breaking the law?

The driver did not, for the parts of the road where it was safe to do so, pull to the left (still within both lines) and allow me to overtake. It's as simple as that.
While he may not have broken the law, he was failing to allow others to pass when it was safe to do so. Instead, he took a position close to the centre white line and prevented anyone from overtaking.
Would you think that was good driving?

deravarra

stoneill wrote: »

You wanted a vehicle in front of you to leave the carriageway so you could get past?

I wanted to get past for the previous few miles and was prevented from doing so by the truck drivers actions. I thought perhaps he hadn't seen me so was trying to let him know I was behind him.

In all fairness, I have seen truck drivers do far worse than allow a car pass them by either laying to one side for five seconds or less. Nothing ever said about that .. but as soon as I mention that the truck didnt do the courteous thing and expected trailing cars to remain behind them for 5 or 6 miles at a pace of 40 kph, suddenly I have an issue.

savagethegoat

I believe the RotR say that you may , if you wish, pull on to the hard shoulder to allow faster traffic to pass. Not must . I expect he got fed up with you dancing about on his back bumper.

I still doubt there wasn't an opportunity to pass a vehicle at 40km/h in 6 miles. It would take a matter of 3 or 4 seconds.

foggy_lad

deravarra wrote: »

The driver did not, for the parts of the road where it was safe to do so, pull to the left (still within both lines) and allow me to overtake. It's as simple as that.
While he may not have broken the law, he was failing to allow others to pass when it was safe to do so. Instead, he took a position close to the centre white line and prevented anyone from overtaking.
Would you think that was good driving?

Once he was not crossing the centre line too often then you had plenty of room to pass him. Do you think the road on the opposite side was narrower than the side ye were on? Centre lines are usually called that for being central on the roadway.

Cookie_Monster

savagethegoat wrote: »

I believe the RotR say that you may , if you wish, pull on to the hard shoulder to allow faster traffic to pass. Not must . I expect he got fed up with you dancing about on his back bumper.
.

wasn't there a case recently where a tractor driver was stopped by AGS for not pulling in to allow traffic to pass and subsequently prosecuted?

DaisyDLady

deravarra wrote: »

Would have been grand if they didnt work correctly, but they did. I had been behind him for a few miles and saw him using both indicators. Once to overtake, and another to pull in to the left.

So u were stuck behind an artic traveling at 40mph for 6 miles.......

But you know his indicators are working because he used them "once to overtake"

So a 45ft artic could over take on this road , but you EXPECTED him to pull in for you to overtake.

What in the name of God are you Drivein that you couldn't overtake BUT an artic could.

foggy_lad

Cookie_Monster wrote: »

wasn't there a case recently where a tractor driver was stopped by AGS for not pulling in to allow traffic to pass and subsequently prosecuted?

If farm or other work vehicles or oversize loads etc are causing an obstruction through their slow speeds then they are obliged to pull in where possible whenever there are more than 5 vehicles behind them afaik, this would only apply to things like harvesters and other equipment that prevents traffic passing them in the normal way.

the_syco

deravarra wrote: »

I wanted to get past for the previous few miles and was prevented from doing so by the truck drivers actions. I thought perhaps he hadn't seen me so was trying to let him know I was behind him.

It sounds like he saw you weaving in and out close behind him. I find it impossible to believe that you were unable to pass him out. How fast would you have gone to overtake the HGV?

shar01

deravarra wrote: »

I felt the driver may not have seen me, so I did not flash the truck from the rear, but pulled out a little to let them see me in their rear view mirror.

This is the bit that struck me OP. How close were you driving behind him if you had to pull out for him to see you? Maybe he thought you were about to overtake but he felt it wasn't safe.

deravarra

savagethegoat wrote: »

I believe the RotR say that you may , if you wish, pull on to the hard shoulder to allow faster traffic to pass. Not must . I expect he got fed up with you dancing about on his back bumper.

I still doubt there wasn't an opportunity to pass a vehicle at 40km/h in 6 miles. It would take a matter of 3 or 4 seconds.

Doubt all you like. There wasn't an opportunity to overtake due to his driving

savagethegoat

But he managed to overtake something....

deravarra

savagethegoat wrote: »

But he managed to overtake something....

Yes he did. A tractor that pulled in to allow both the truck driver and I to pass.

Do you like being so argumentative?

If I wanted responses like yours I would have posted in after hours.

savagethegoat

Ok I'll butt out... very confused though

foggy_lad

deravarra wrote: »

Doubt all you like. There wasn't an opportunity to overtake due to his driving

No, you had opportunities to overtake quite probably when he was indicating left but you chose to stay behind the lorry ducking and weaving in and out of your lane making the lorry driver think you might be drunk or otherwise impaired.

Once the driver was on his own side of the broken white line then you had ample opportunity to pull back from him and pull out slightly to check the road ahead and overtake safely!

Tarabuses

I'm just wondering if a queue of traffic built up behind your car and the truck over the 5/6 miles travelled?

deravarra

Tarabuses wrote: »

I'm just wondering if a queue of traffic built up behind your car and the truck over the 5/6 miles travelled?

No, it was very quiet. There was just me and one other. As the truck driver turned right onto that secondary road, I also turned right. The car behind me continued straight.

deravarra

foggy_lad wrote: »

deravarra wrote: »

Doubt all you like. There wasn't an opportunity to overtake due to his driving

No, you had opportunities to overtake quite probably when he was indicating left but you chose to stay behind the lorry ducking and weaving in and out of your lane making the lorry driver think you might be drunk or otherwise impaired.

Once the driver was on his own side of the broken white line then you had ample opportunity to pull back from him and pull out slightly to check the road ahead and overtake safely!

Im sorry, but were you there to observe what happened?
No you weren't, but despite this, you are somehow able to come up with all kinds of ideas of what did and didn't happen.

You have a problem reading - as I said when the truck indicated left and I went to overtake, the lorry then turned right ... A good bit down that small road I thought the truck driver may not been aware of my presence behind them, and so tried to alert them of my presence. I was not ducking and weaving as you say. I pulled slightly to the right on two occasions so that the truck driver could see me.

There was no opportunity for this truck to be overtaken due to his driving. That was the crux of the matter.

Now, if you are going to respond again, please make sure you know what you're talking about because that last post certainly makes you look rather silly.

donegal.

was the truck driver really close to the white line or literally right in the middle of the road , straddling the white line?

where you wanting to over take when there was oncoming traffic ? wanting the truck driver to move far enough left so that you didn't need to cross the white line?

it seems to me that either there was no oncoming traffic and you had plenty of space to overtake, or there was oncoming traffic and couldn't overtake. Where in the lane the truck is has no bearing on either of the scenarios
(except if you're tailgating and can't see oncoming traffic)

foggy_lad

You travelled for several kilometres on R445, which is quite wide for most of the journey you took, and were unable to overtake a lorry and for that you are blaming the lorry driver and basically accusing him of driving without due care and attention. In answer to your OP, you ware being unreasonable.

deravarra

foggy_lad wrote: »

You travelled for several kilometres on R445, which is quite wide for most of the journey you took, and were unable to overtake a lorry and for that you are blaming the lorry driver and basically accusing him of driving without due care and attention. In answer to your OP, you ware being unreasonable.

Thanks. Because of your previous posts, I'll just ignore your response and await one from someone with a little more credibility.

Truckermal

It's only illegal to use the hard shoulder on a motorway and no the road in question. Most professional drivers will keep left if conditions are safe to allow cars to pass but some are ignorant pr1cks and will leave you sit there.

OP I don't think your telling the full story here , yes the driver was wrong for driving at such a ridiculously low speed and not keeping in but how on earth could you not pass him?? Also was there a huge tailback behind you ??

BTW the truck driver would have failed his driving test for driving in this manner..

foggy_lad

Truckermal wrote: »

It's only illegal to use the hard shoulder on a motorway and no the road in question. Most professional drivers will keep left if conditions are safe to allow cars to pass but some are ignorant pr1cks and will leave you sit there.

OP I don't think your telling the full story here , yes the driver was wrong for driving at such a ridiculously low speed and not keeping in but how on earth could you not pass him?? Also was there a huge tailback behind you ??

BTW the truck driver would have failed his driving test for driving in this manner..

It is illegal to drive along any stretch of hard shoulder except in an emergency! You can stop on any hard shoulder except for on motorways.

The lorry was driving at a speed that is not dangerous on a rural road with an 80kph speed restriction so I doubt very much he would fail a test at that speed but a car driver might be told they had failed to progress.

Most car drivers have the confidence to pass trucks safely once they are not crossing the centre line, some drivers don't. Calling the lorry driver names is not fair when he did nothing wrong.