"Evicting" family member from inherited house

Joeseph Balls

4ensic15 wrote: »

How do you know he works?

Because the Op said so...

4ensic15

Joeseph Balls wrote: »

Because the Op said so...

The o/p did not say so.

jay-me

Irishchick wrote: »

Just looking for some advice. I inherited my grandads house which is in my name. My uncle is staying in the house rent free for over ten years. He was an alcoholic but has been dry for years now so I let him stay while he recovered but he's been fine for years now. I didn't mind him living there when I was well and working and he always said he knew It was mine and would have to move on at some stage.

I have several illnesses and need money for tests and consultant fees so I need to sell the house.

I asked him would he consider moving on in around 3 months time. I thought that would be plenty of time for him to save for a deposit(he has a job and a car).


He has turned nasty (abusive phone calls) and has just said outright that we won't leave even though he knows how ill I am and how much I need the funds for medical reasons. He says he won't leave and I'll have to evict him.

I just want to know will he have any claim to the house even though he's never paid rent and is not a tenant?

I mentioned it in passing to my solicitor months ago (when I was just considering this) and he said my illness is grounds enough to have him evicted if he won't leave.

How much notice am I legally required to give someone who doesn't pay rent?

Does a solicitor just send a letter? If he doesn't leave then what?

Ahem!

Irishchick

<mod snip :please don't feed the trolls>

I tried to negotiate with him. I asked him could he use the next few months to save for a deposit. He works full time so there is no reason he should not be able to save for a deposit.

I was happy to let him stay for the next 6 months if he needed to get a deposit together. He lives rent free snd works full time so this should not be an issue.

I told him it was because I needed money for surgery. His response was to be extremely verbally abusive to me. He is not willing to negotiate. His reply after verbally abusing me was that I will have to evict him to get him out. He won't negotiate so what other choice do I have?

He is a family member who beat my grandparents and stole from them. He harassed my grandmother so much she spent the latter years of her life in a mental institution. He even went to the institution and stole money out of her pocket while she was an in patient! He threatened her and she had to give him money to make him leave! The whole family was terrified of him for years!

He has physically assaulted almost every member of the family. He has verbally abused people in the town. He has stolen from business In the past. He has been in and out of jail for most of his life up to about 15 years ago. He has has a history of violence and substance abuse.

He is not a decent human being.

I'm not feeding anyone a sob story. I have two chronic illness and and am probably about to be diagnosed with a third. I will take chemotherapy medication for the rest of my life. It's a fact not a sob story.

My hip is so badly damaged I can barely move. I have been told I can either lie in pain for three to four years on the public system or pay and have the operation in a few months.

This is why I need money. So don't be so quick to assume I'm the bad one.

4ensic15

jay-me wrote: »

Ahem!

Just because he has a job doesn't mean he works.

Irishchick

4ensic15 wrote: »

Just because he has a job doesn't mean he works.

He works full time.

Mrs OBumble

OP - you need to think about where he might go.

With that kind of history, I do not see that it is likely he will buy a house. Even if he saves for a deposit, it is unlikely that he will be in a good enough job to qualify for a mortgage. And he will struggle to get private sector rental accommodation if he's well known in the area as troublesome, and has no landlord references.

Frankly, you need to have the assistance of older relative to sort this out. They may need to engage the assistance of the guards (via a friend of a friend arrangement) - or perhaps local politicians, who are know for helping to sort out problems. There is no way that a disabled 20-something will be able to do it.

One option could be to sell the house for less than it's worth, to someone who knows about the situation and is willing to take on the challenge of dealing with him.

Irishchick

Mrs OBumble wrote: »

OP - you need to think about where he might go.

With that kind of history, I do not see that it is likely he will buy a house. Even if he saves for a deposit, it is unlikely that he will be in a good enough job to qualify for a mortgage. And he will struggle to get private sector rental accommodation if he's well known in the area as troublesome, and has no landlord references.

Frankly, you need to have the assistance of older relative to sort this out. They may need to engage the assistance of the guards (via a friend of a friend arrangement) - or perhaps local politicians, who are know for helping to sort out problems. There is no way that a disabled 20-something will be able to do it.

One option could be to sell the house for less than it's worth, to someone who knows about the situation and is willing to take on the challenge of dealing with him.

When I say deposit I mean deposit for rent not a mortgage. He's working full time and paying no rent so I thought six months would be more than enough time to save a months rent to use as a deposit for a small house / apartment.

I also told him that I would happily take minimal rent ( even like €10) so I could say he was a paying tenant who paid on time and never caused trouble. That was also thrown back in my face.

This was all about ten years ago. Even though he verbally abuses us believe it or not many people in the town now think he's an angel whose turned his life around. We haven't led anyone to believe otherwise because it's not anyone's business and I'm not one to spread gossip even when he is so verbally abusive.

So believe it or not he won't have any issues with finding a place to rent. People are mad to rent at the minute and people in this town seem to have a very short memory. He has loads of friends.

wyrn

OP I don't mean to worry you, but I think you should be careful in case he damages the house. Personally I would not approach him until after you speak to the solicitor who can give you sound legal advice. From the way you've described him, I could see the house being severely damaged when he's being forced to leave.

Irishchick

wyrn wrote: »

OP I don't mean to worry you, but I think you should be careful in case he damages the house. Personally I would not approach him until after you speak to the solicitor who can give you sound legal advice. From the way you've described him, I could see the house being severely damaged when he's being forced to leave.

I think he is more than capable of this. He's threatened to burn the house down before. I'm almost expecting it. I have not contacted him since and won't be doing so until I have seen a solicitor.

wyrn

Irishchick wrote: »

I think he is more than capable of this. He's threatened to burn the house down before. I'm almost expecting it. I have not contacted him since and won't be doing so until I have seen a solicitor.

I wish you luck OP. Would it be a good idea to pop into the guards and let them know that he's threatened this and that you fear that he might do something drastic, just so it's on the record. But without them popping down to him for a chat, in case that sets him off.

sunny2004

the only advice you need is from a solicitor

h2005

4ensic15 wrote: »

Just because he has a job doesn't mean he works.

What???

Gatling

I'd be weary dealing with your uncle especially if he has a history of violence, I certainly wouldn't be running in there and changing the locks when he pops out ,
Chances are he would just force re entry essentially into his home ,
I'd stick to qualified and paid legal advice rather than strangers online ,
Sound like a lot of a 24ish year old to deal with especially with poor health ,

ted1

Irishchick wrote: »

No he did not contest the will and is not entitled to any percentage of sale.

The he stayed there for ten years rent free. I had the will probated over a year ago so it's been in my name for about a year.

Did heckling be there when his father was alive ?

Irishchick

ted1 wrote: »

Did heckling be there when his father was alive ?

Yes he terrorised them both when they were alive. They lived in fear of him. They wouldn't make him leave because they honestly thought he would kill them. He nearly killed my grandmother once.

My grandmother ended up in a mental institution because of it. The stress killed her in the end.

athtrasna

Mod note

A number of posts which did not contribute to helping the OP have been deleted. Please think before you post, also please report objectionable posts, rather than retort on thread. Thanks

Wanderer78

sounds like this chap is very mentally unstable. this needs to be dealt with carefully. apologies but ive no real advice op. best of luck with it and your own well being

HelenV

Irishchick wrote: »

The waits on the public system are over two years. I can't suffer for that long.

He was cut out because he abused my grandparents physically and emotionally for over 20 years. He has also verbally abused every other member of the family so they have no problem with him being made to leave.

We left him in the house until now for a quiet life. But I need the money now for health care.

Your uncle seems to be one nasty piece of work. Do as other posters have said and get legal advice immediately. If he threatens you you can apply to the court for a Safety / Protection Order. The gardai will respond immediately if he gives you any grief during the period the Order is in place. If you've ever mentioned to your GP or reported him to the gardai previously this will support your application in court.

You are not responsible for keeping a roof over this guy's head and no doubt he's not a happy bunny that you've inherited the property. If he's served with an Eviction Order he can go to the Council and put his name down on the housing list - they may even consider him a priority and give him emergency accommodation.

Depending on your own circumstances you may even qualify for legal aid so you could probably check this out with your local Legal Aid Board.

Best of luck. You've got a nasty battle on your hands but you cannot let this thug rule your life.

Lantus

Get the legal advice but if he is likely to cause damage to the property you changing the locks or a lovely official eviction wont take much difference.

HelenV

Lantus wrote: »

A typical rental eviction can take at least 12 months and cost 4 to 8 thousand? if all legal fees and trips to court are allowed for.

Hence why alternative solutions if available should be used unless solicitor can promise it will be quick and cheap.

As she intends selling the property a sympathetic solicitor may be willing to postpone payment of court fees until the sale completes and may be able to convince a barrister to do likewise given the particular circumstances.

Claw Hammer

HelenV wrote: »

As she intends selling the property a sympathetic solicitor may be willing to postpone payment of court fees until the sale completes and may be able to convince a barrister to do likewise given the particular circumstances.

Court fees have to be paid to the court. The professional fees are different. Ultimately there would be a costs order against the uncle if the o/p is correct.

mad m

OP, do you have house insured? Just wondering if he does go mental on you and burn house down at least you have some come back.

Id also keep a written report of talks you have with him and maybe wouldn't hurt to inform Garda of his threats.

HelenV

Claw Hammer wrote: »

Court fees have to be paid to the court. The professional fees are different. Ultimately there would be a costs order against the uncle if the o/p is correct.

<mod snip>
Obviously I meant "professional" fees.

There may well be an order for costs against the defendant / uncle but he may not be in a position to to pay them and where would that leave the OP?

Obviously if her legal advisers were willing to postpone payment of their fees until after a sale of the property this could encourage her to do whatever is necessary to rid herself of this bully.

ct5amr2ig1nfhp

Yep, the OP said they have the house insured post #12

The solicitor will give you the advice you need when you meet him/her tomorrow.

mad m wrote: »

OP, do you have house insured? Just wondering if he does go mental on you and burn house down at least you have some come back.

Id also keep a written report of talks you have with him and maybe wouldn't hurt to inform Garda of his threats.

I think it's mad you are spending money to get rid of him. He's a nuisance to live around, and he's costing you money.

Pop into Gardai and let them know of the threats. Just so they can make a record of it. Get the name of the Garda you speak to.

Send the uncle a registered letter. Also keep a copy yourself. Keep the receipt for the registered post. Eviction notice in X amount of days. Don't answer the phone to him, dont talk to him, just ignore him. After X days, give him 3-4 more days to let him ease a bit (as he'll no doubt be expecting something to happen on the deadline, and when nothing happens, after a couple of days he'll let his guard down). In with a locksmith and change the locks. Get all of his stuff together in a single space inside the door, bag as much as possible. install a cheapo camera in the hallway.

Save local Garda station no. to your phone and have it ready. As soon as Uncle arrives home from work, call the Gardai before he even gets out of his car or tries to open the front door. Tell him you want rid and let him in to take out his belongings. By ringing the gardai in advance, he'll hopefully see them pulling up fairly swiftly (will hopefully plant the seed in his head that they're fast to react and there's no point in trying to retaliate or call back in anger as they'll be there within minutes), and with any luck, if he's throwing a tantrum and you 'fear for your safety', they might stay and wait whilst he gets his stuff together into the car.

Have copy of eviction letter and copy of registered post receipt to show Garda, along with a document that actually states you own the house. If you can't prove in writing that you own the house, Garda will tell you stop wasting their time as they won't know what's going on.

Minimal hassle and cost for all involved, yet conveys that you're serious. This way the only way you'll end up in court is if the uncle brings you to court, and what are the chances of him taking you to court? Is he really going to spend money taking you to court? Honestly? And if he does, on what grounds is he doing it? Unlawful eviction? Any solicitor he goes to see will most likely tell him to cop on and anything he does after you've locked him out is malicious or criminal damage (this is where the camera comes in - saying you seen him doing it is your word vs his. Pictures/video is proof). Just make sure you find out what the correct eviction notice is and use it properly.


Of course, im just an uneducated chap on a message board, so take my approach with a grain of salt, but to be spending money on a solicitor because someone else is taking the piss? I don't think I'd be queuing up for that approach!

4ensic15

Deleted User wrote: »

Of course, im just an uneducated chap on a message board, so take my approach with a grain of salt, but to be spending money on a solicitor because someone else is taking the piss? I don't think I'd be queuing up for that approach!

You are making a number of assumptions that your scenario will play out in a particular way.The guards have no interest in acting as arbiters as to who owns a property. They may not turn up on demand when the uncle gets home. They have work to do such as catching criminals. The o/p cannot remain in the house 24/7. It cannot be assumed the uncle will not go to court himself or will not try to get back in. If the uncle gets back in the o/p may end up in court anyway and the o/p will look bad for trying to take the law into her own hands. Furthermore if the uncle goes to court first the o/p will be on the back foot with regard to negotiating with her solicitor on fees. She will have to give the solicitor a charge on the house or pay upfront. A DIY effort going wrong could result in massive legal fees for the o/p.

Fair points, 4ensic, but im fairly confident that at the end of the day, any reasonable judge (not that i'd really ever see this getting anywhere near a court room) would ask two fairly simple questions:

- Who owns the house

- Was the eviction lawful


If the answers are The OP and Yes, then out the door you go. What more is there to consider. The judge may have sympathy to the uncle, might even fall head over heels in love with him, but he can't order that the OP let someone else live in their house.

4ensic15

Deleted User wrote: »

Fair points, 4ensic, but im fairly confident that at the end of the day, any reasonable judge (not that i'd really ever see this getting anywhere near a court room) would ask two fairly simple questions:

- Who owns the house

- Was the eviction lawful


If the answers are The OP and Yes, then out the door you go. What more is there to consider. The judge may have sympathy to the uncle, might even fall head over heels in love with him, but he can't order that the OP let someone else live in their house.

A lot of judges are not reasonable. All judges are former lawyers. All will wonder why a lawyer was not engaged first before changing locks etc. All have a discretion in relation to costs. All have a discretion in relation as to how long a stay they will give to allow the uncle find alternative accommodation.
The uncle may well succeed on a balance of convenience argument in saying he has some rights. He would get to stay in the house till it is fully heard and might get away with costs etc.
This kind of thing is no place for hob lawyers.

the_syco

h2005 wrote: »

What???

He may not need to goto an office to do his job. He may do it remotely, or be a tradesman based out of the house.

Irishchick wrote: »

He is a family member who beat my grandparents and stole from them. He harassed my grandmother so much she spent the latter years of her life in a mental institution. He even went to the institution and stole money out of her pocket while she was an in patient! He threatened her and she had to give him money to make him leave! The whole family was terrified of him for years!

Have a barring order put against him, using his past history of violence against your family, and his current threats against you as the reasons.

Irishchick wrote: »

I think he is more than capable of this. He's threatened to burn the house down before. I'm almost expecting it. I have not contacted him since and won't be doing so until I have seen a solicitor.

Check with your solicitor can you insure the house, so if he did burn it down, would you still win (and extra bonus of having him charged with burning it down)?