Feedback Thread 2016 - Mod Warning in OP

GavRedKing

Seems like a good a time as any to start the Feedback Thread for 2016.

I'll let this run until next week and lock it and try pick up and discuss the major issues with the Mods and Sports Cmods before the stat of the Euros.

Just a few things about the usual rules in these threads below.

Trolling, abuse or breaches of the charter in this thread will be an immediate infraction and 2 week ban for anyone who breaches the rules. If you want to post in this thread you are agreeing to accept this rule, we want this thread to run smoothly as its all in yere vested interests.

Couple of basic ground rules before we get going:

(1) No scapegoating of individual posters or Moderators. This isn't to turn into a witch hunt against people you don't like. This is yere chance to tell us what we should or should not be doing.

(2) If someone makes a point that you don't agree with then either respond in a constructive manner with a decent counter-point or don't respond at all. Attempted witty one liners to undermine an argument are pointless and will not be tolerated. Most of the time you think you're being funny, you're not. If you think it's not a good idea outline reasons why you think it's not going to work instead of dragging the thread wildly off topic.

(3) Please, when you're making a point take a second to THINK about it and make sure it's what you actually want. So make sure when you're asking for something to happen that you realise it's going to effect you too, not just other users.

(4) As usual, we'll be using 'Thanks' to work out what suggestions seem the most supported, so if you agree what someone says thank their post and it gives us a better idea and makes it easier to keep track that trying to add up loads of individual posts. This is your chance to have your say so if you have an issue and you think it needs to be resolved mention it, but please remember this isnt a place to grind your axe, try be constructive in your input.

(5) Let's have a grown up discussion.

EDIT - Mod Warning Post #278

Right, let's put an end to this.

Unless there's anything or anyone new to contribute to the discussion, can we put a pin in the issue and move on a bit? I don't want this to come across as trying to stifle discussion or feedback on the issue, but at this stage, I worry it's derailed the feedback thread, so am taking some action to get us back on track.

GavRedKing

I'll kick this off myself actually, as some of you may have been aware, the Soccer Forum was opened up for the World Cup in 2014 to all users of the site and it ran a lot smoother than most people expected.

This is something I've mentioned to Dav already and may very well happen again for the Euros given Ireland will be involved, it stands to reason we'll have more people wanting to discuss the Euros.

First off, banned users will remained banned and there was exceptional rules in place for the World Cup with regards to cards and infractions and ban lengths but that will be outlined at a further date, any banned users who re-reg to post in the open forum to avoid a ban on another account will be perma-banned from the forum.

ArmaniJeanss

I wouldn't be a prolific poster here or anything, but fwiw I think ye fairly nailed it as a mod team this season. By no means was everything perfect but I don't recall even once thinking that something was an outrageously wrong decision.

hufpc8w3adnk65

The online jersey store thread is getting a bit bitchy. I think we need too edit the title and the opening post as the exact same questions are asked every day, if memory serves me correctly a person asked for a website link that was posted 2 posts (not pages) above. Thats just downright lazy.

CantGetNoSleep

Why do Spurs have their own forum?

GavRedKing

ArmaniJeanss wrote: »

I wouldn't be a prolific poster here or anything, but fwiw I think ye fairly nailed it as a mod team this season. By no means was everything perfect but I don't recall even once thinking that something was an outrageously wrong decision.

I think the forum and the users itself deserve praise here, it seems to be a better place to post, by and large. You're always going to have conflict and a differences of opinion but I think the forum is in a better place than it was say 2 or 3 years ago.

Maybe we're all more mature.

GavRedKing

CantGetNoSleep wrote: »

Why do Spurs have their own forum?

This is from the latest Feedback Thread over in Boards own Feedback Forum.

From the Admins too : http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=98318935&postcount=4

Actually just to add to this - we have a long standing policy that there will be no forums created for individual teams. This will not change. The Spurs forum was created in a different time on Boards and mainly as a favour to a friend of one of the original admins, iirc. It would not be approved under the current forum request procedures and therefore remains something of an anachronism. The Soccer forum's success is based on the fact that fans of all teams post there, and post on threads of other teams or on any threads that interest them. Removing that community aspect and replacing it with individual Liverpool, Man United, etc., forums just relegates these forums to being the same as all the other one-team only forums. If you want to post in that sort of forum, there are plenty out there for you, but we prefer to retain the more unique feel to the Boards Soccer forum.

eagle eye

Agree with Armani.

Only way to improve things now would be to ban all United and Liverpool fans. :pac:

The Backwards Man

This is more feedback for some posters rather than the moderators, and it's probably futile but anyways, maybe someone will listen.

The dragging of Liverpool/Man Utd into every thread that has nothing even remotely to do about them both makes very difficult reading for those of us that aren't a fan of either, and I'm sure it does for many fans of those clubs too.

inforfun

eagle eye wrote: »

Agree with Armani.

Only way to improve things now would be to ban all United and Liverpool fans. :pac:

Or give them their own "humor" thread.

Bad enough the penis measuring in threads related to those 2 but every single time one of them does something, the humor thread is flooded with "funnies"

rob316

The Backwards Man wrote: »

This is more feedback for some posters rather than the moderators, and it's probably futile but anyways, maybe someone will listen.

The dragging of Liverpool/Man Utd into every thread that has nothing even remotely to do about them both makes very difficult reading for those of us that aren't a fan of either, and I'm sure it does for many fans of those clubs too.

There really isn't much you can do about that, they are 2 teams with the largest support by some distance in the country and are bitter rivals. It's school yard stuff but I agree their are certain posters who go out of their way to wind up the others.

LuckyLloyd

I think overall it's another very good year from the moderation team. Generally the forum is ticking along nicely and a lot of things that were subjects of much debate in previous years (Card system; Superthreads; Access) are now bedded in processes that work very well.

It is never correct to rest on one's laurels however. There are two things that strike me as worthy of discussion:

- The constant Liverpool / Utd divide;
- The perception that the above stifles football conversation about other things on the forum;

I wouldn't entertain any 'throw the baby out with the bathwater' solutions that may be suggested about subforums and the like but I'd propose a couple of things that might be doable and productive:

1) Slightly more aggressive moderation action on the question of "on topic" posting - i.e. if a thread is not specifically about Utd / Liverpool any posts that attempt to creep the conversation in that direction should possibly be deleted and an on thread warning provided;

2) An attempt to end preemptive whining about Liverpool / Utd stuff. This manifests itself in a couple of ways:

• posts in match threads about how Liverpool / Utd fans will turn up into the thread or not depending on how a game does or doesn't go;
• posts in either superthread complaining about the fact that fans of other clubs may be posting / not posting there at any one time;
• posts in general threads lamenting the fact that the forum is dominated by Utd / Liverpool fans before said thread has really veered off topic to any great extent;

3) A potential reexamination about enforcement of the old rule of 'no match discussion in superthreads'. What has made this forum great in the past is the interaction of different fan bases in one place (that isn't a free for all cesspit). I think there has been some element of Utd / Liverpool fans retreating into bunkers in superthreads and unwilling to discuss matches in the neutral match threads. The more people don't interact with each other the less they'll be able to do so in an adult fashion.




Bear in mind I don't believe the forum has a major problem here at present, but I think it might do in 12 months time if some actions are not considered at this stage. There should always be a focus on what makes this soccer forum different from others on the web and one of the key tenants of that is cross fan base discussion. Fostering that needs to be a priority.

The 'here comes the X fans' type comments in match threads.

It always leads to back and forth comments.

That_Guy

FWIW I think mods have done a pretty decent job. That being said, I only frequent match threads and the Newcastle superthread.

The only problem I have found over the last while is in match threads. Take for example, the FA Cup Final and Europa League final threads.

Liverpool concede a goal in the EL final.

Posts such as these emerge:

"Ah here come the "Sevilla" fans now."
"Sevilla fan are you?"

Same with the FA Cup Final:

Palace score.

"Lifelong Palace fans inbound"

etc etc

---

Personally, these type of posts need to be stamped out. Football brings out rivalries and of course neutral fans/direct rivals of teams participating are going to be watching/posting.

The above posts are even more snide than the blatant trolling attempts of certain people.

Match threads/superthreads aren't just for fans of teams playing that day.

CSF

I think the mods do a great job. My main gripe like many would be the resorting of any even mildly related topic to a Man United vs Liverpool childish cockmeasuring competition. More infractions for the obvious trolling that goes on between the 2 sets of fans would make a lot of threads better for everyone really.

Perhaps a way of implementing it is to stop allowing points be responded to with 'yeah well your club/manager/fans is this'

5starpool

Pretty good job done generally. I may have some more thoughts later, but for now I just want to say that I disagree with Lloyd's point of telling people to stop discussing matches in the superthread, even when it is ongoing. The reason this happens in utd and Liverpool match threads is because of the reactions of the other set when one of those teams is doing badly. A different policy regarding those posts, and indeed the here comes the neutrals type posts would be welcome.

Turtyturd

The Good: Dozen wicked words as a mod. I know he closed his account for whatever reasons but it was good for the forum to have a prominent mod who isn't influenced by his support for one of the bigger teams, and this should probably be something to look at when appointing future mods.

The Rangers off field discussion thread....that was well overdue.

The Bad: Most of the moderators do a fine job but the accidental and deliberate inconsistent moderation really undermines it.

The Ugly: Deleted posts. I get the argument for them and understand why it is done but when standard posts against the charter are deleted, it's not hard to figure out whats going on.

What I'd change:

Close the re-reg loophole: I know there are valid reasons for posters to close their account but there are plenty of cases of posters on the verge of bans who close their account, join straight back up and are back in the forum in no time to continue on as before with a clean slate.

*Edit: Although I'd have an amnesty on this for posters who haven't availed of it but want to....in the interest of fairness.

A proper discussion about moderation: The OP preempts it so obviously they are aware of the issue but it needs to happen. I know someone tried to start one in feedback a while back but most posters may not have been aware of it and it was killed off pretty quickly. There's a group of posters who have a lot of influence with a mod and should be addressed.

Thread spoiling: Seems to be pretty much overlooked in all it's forms, but it's getting ridiculous now when posters deliberately try and twist the match thread to focus on themselves after the match had ended. Most people know what's going on but some can't help themselves but respond and it makes threads unreadable. Would save a lot of hassle if mods just stepped in.

Agree with Lloyd re the match threads. Chelsea/City and Arsenal seem to be able to discuss matches in the superthread for every match. If anyone who wants to discuss the match posts anything about the opposing team in those threads they'll be met with cries of trolling.

rob316

There is about 10 posters between both sides, the Mods are well aware who the culprits are, they can put a stop to the majority of it if they want.

HalloweenJack

I have a problem with posts along the lines of "I'm not bothered replying to you" etc. when a poster is asked to offer some substance to their original post.

It's up there with "I'm putting you on the ignore list" as annoying and, personally, it goes against the goal of the forum which is to debate opinions.

I'm not talking about people who use these lines as a response to obvious trolls but about people who come into a thread and make an outlandish statement and then responde with something along the lines of "I don't have time for this" when asked to expand or when countered is a real pain in the arse.

I'm aware this isn't an easy thing to moderate as in some cases it probably is genuine but quite often there are posters who refuse to debate their opinions and come out with condescending replies to any questioning of their opinions.

Liam O

5starpool wrote: »

Pretty good job done generally. I may have some more thoughts later, but for now I just want to say that I disagree with Lloyd's point of telling people to stop discussing matches in the superthread, even when it is ongoing. The reason this happens in utd and Liverpool match threads is because of the reactions of the other set when one of those teams is doing badly. A different policy regarding those posts, and indeed the here comes the neutrals type posts would be welcome.

I think that would be too difficult to consistently mod as there's teams who's only match discussion happens in their superthreads unless it's a big game. So the Arsenal fans will continue doing it while United and Liverpool fans can't? I wouldn't be big into doing it as I like the match threads here but if people want to then I'd not really mind.

The modding has been great the last year or 2. Mainly to do with there being more regular posters on the mod team. They make decisions with a bit more context rather than jumping the gun which happened in the past.

One thing is the amount of finger pointing that goes on with regards re-reging can be annoying and should be an automatic infraction as it's something that's not going to lead anywhere. If someone says who they used to be then fair enough but people calling others out is a bit tiresome and pointless.

CantGetNoSleep

In disagreement with some of the above - the Utd / Liverpool thing just shows that a lot of the people on this forum are easily offended babies.

Rather than rules against what sort of banter you can get - maybe rules against acting like you are 12 years old if someone posts something when your team loses would work better?

hots

Turtyturd wrote: »

Agree with Lloyd re the match threads. Chelsea/City and Arsenal seem to be able to discuss matches in the superthread for every match. If anyone who wants to discuss the match posts anything about the opposing team in those threads they'll be met with cries of trolling.

Tbh for the smaller superthreads banning all match talk would kill the thread altogether, and I can't imagine a situation where someone posting in a superthread about a match just gone could be accused of trolling?

Lovely Bloke

if there's a match thread, post in it, if there's no match thread, fair game to post in the team specific thread.

How is that difficult?

Generally, the larger supported teams will always have a match thread anyway.

Paz-CCFC

Is there a blanket policy to close match threads a day or two after it ends? I recall the FAI Cup Final thread last season was closed without any real reason and no mod note at the end. The only reason I can think is that there's a blanket policy.

If there is, could it be changed to only if the threads descend into rubbish? I understand that a lot of match threads do end up like that, especially Manchester v Liverpool. But others don't and there's no reason to stop them before they naturally taper off. LoI threads are probably among the most civil threads on this forum (only two yellow cards last season, if I recall correctly), so there's no reason to close them early if they're not causing trouble. Single match threads are also not that common (usually just the weekly league-wide topics), so it's a shame to see them locked prematurely.

Cantona's Collars

MrMac84 wrote: »

The online jersey store thread is getting a bit bitchy. I think we need too edit the title and the opening post as the exact same questions are asked every day, if memory serves me correctly a person asked for a website link that was posted 2 posts (not pages) above. Thats just downright lazy.

I hate that,it is just laziness to not have a quick read through a few posts and have a quick google.
That thread is near the 10k limit anyway so maybe a mod can put a note in the OP of the new one and perhaps the most used links to online stores be posted there ala the Chinese Android Phones thread.Links are in the OP and any new ones tend to be posted later in the thread as people find new stores/sources for stuff.

Was just looking for some clarification on when you can post clips of goals etc in threads / match threads . For arguments sake if a goal is viewable on SSN the day after a game is it OK to post match footage then?

Not sure if it infringes on the copyright law

Beasty

M!Ck^ wrote: »

Was just looking for some clarification on when you can post clips of goals etc in threads / match threads . For arguments sake if a goal is viewable on SSN the day after a game is it OK to post match footage then?

Not sure if it infringes on the copyright law

Yes - even if available on SSN, it remains subject to Copyright and the rules set out here which followed a site ruling.

Hence no clips allowed at any time really unless it's clearly not copyrighted.

MagicIRL

The non-posting of gifs is stupid. Boards.ie are not hosting the content themselves, so the fact that I can't embed an image from another website is annoying, especially when it's a 30sec clip of a goal or something. Hardly embedding an illegal stream like.

GavRedKing

Paz-CCFC wrote: »

Is there a blanket policy to close match threads a day or two after it ends? I recall the FAI Cup Final thread last season was closed without any real reason and no mod note at the end. The only reason I can think is that there's a blanket policy.

If there is, could it be changed to only if the threads descend into rubbish? I understand that a lot of match threads do end up like that, especially Manchester v Liverpool. But others don't and there's no reason to stop them before they naturally taper off. LoI threads are probably among the most civil threads on this forum (only two yellow cards last season, if I recall correctly), so there's no reason to close them early if they're not causing trouble. Single match threads are also not that common (usually just the weekly league-wide topics), so it's a shame to see them locked prematurely.

Usually match threads are closed after a day or two, some match threads though remain unclosed as they drop off the first page and go unnoticed.

5starpool

I have a minor point, but it is something that is a bugbear of mine. Thread title change in superthreads to say 'Mod warning, etc, etc'. This should happen in one of 3 ways.

1. Every superthread should by default say 'Thread warnings in OP' and it is the users responsibility to be familiar with this. Generally they are the same thing repeated over and over again anyhow.
2. Warnings are just put into the OP and no amendment to thread title. Title changes stay in for the life of that thread only, so even one from a week into the thread will stay there until it is closed weeks or months later, but the new one will not have it. If it is not relevant to the new thread, it stopped being relevant to the old thread ages ago.
3. Do it as now, but once some time has passed, change thread title again to remove old warning message. Warning edit in OP will still be there.

Minor point as I say, but I would like a better way of handing these things to be introduced.

Beasty

Beasty wrote: »

Yes - even if available on SSN, it remains subject to Copyright and the rules set out here which followed a site ruling.

Hence no clips allowed at any time really unless it's clearly not copyrighted.

Thanks for that.

But still a bit vague to me. For arguments sake there is a thread called "Best Goals 2016" with clips of goals contained within it. Have the rules been broken in this regard?
Also I assume this is applicable to gifs from Twitter etc..

The_Kew_Tour

Generally happy with it and at end of day it's never going be perfect

I'm serious when say this but at this stage we should have a Fans Behaviour Thread.

The amount of match threads ruined by people saying certain group of fans are singing a song. or chanting, or some other nonsense, really drags down match threads

Match threads should be about the game and if fans are worried about what few dozen people are singing it should be separate.

Your fans are worse then our fan types derail number of threads. Even if little action on pitch it usually opens can of worms.

I know it won't happen but said I say it anyway

Lucas Hood

Beasty wrote: »

Yes - even if available on SSN, it remains subject to Copyright and the rules set out here which followed a site ruling.

Hence no clips allowed at any time really unless it's clearly not copyrighted.

This is what is driving people to Reddit.
I don't post a lot on here anymore because of this.

I wonder how reddit get around it.

Beasty

M!Ck^ wrote: »

Thanks for that.

But still a bit vague to me. For arguments sake there is a thread called "Best Goals 2016" with clips of goals contained within it. Have the rules been broken in this regard?
Also I assume this is applicable to gifs from Twitter etc..

The link in stickied thread in the forum states that posting stuff from the likes of Youtube is OK, as basically it becomes their problem as they are hosting it. The same will apply to Twitter stuff if it's clear that's where it's come from.

In terms of posting "best goals" - site rules probably have been broken, but unless someone reports stuff like that I'm certainly not going to go looking for it.

Beasty

Lucas Hood wrote: »

I wonder how reddit get around it.

They possibly don't (and to be clear I don't go there so don't know what they allow), but if the Premier League lawyers tracked them down they could end up bankrupting that site

Lucas Hood

Beasty wrote: »

They possibly don't (and to be clear I don't go there so don't know what they allow), but if the Premier League lawyers tracked them down they could end up bankrupting that site

They allow pretty much everything.
The gifs do be hosted on other sites sometime they get taken down others they don't.

I'm sure the premier league know well about them its the 33rd most popular site on the internet.

Beasty

Lucas Hood wrote: »

They allow pretty much everything.
The gifs do be hosted on other sites sometime they get taken down others they don't.

I'm sure the premier league know well about them its the 33rd most popular site on the internet.

The problem we have here is it's site policy, meaning there's nothing local mods can do about it once reported

I guess the only option would be if someone thought strongly enough to resurrect the topic with a new thread in the Feedback forum.

Equally though unless something has changed I'm guessing it would be difficult for the office to back down on this. For all I know (and before anyone asks I don't!) they could have a legal opinion stating it's simply not worth the risk.

Bounty Hunter

From the experience last time and from what I've seen posters outside of the forum say (some who have no intention of getting access but would avail of this) opening the forum up to everyone again for the European Championships is something i'd like to see done.

There were a handfull of wind up merchants / time sinks for the mods who were removed and as a whole the forum is a lot better off for it imo. Still issues and posters on a lesser scale who cause annoyances but I no longer bother with Man Utd or Liverpool match thread (in general) as that is where those usually occur.

tbh I think a lot of posters actually avoid match threads these days but there is no easy fix for the tribal back and forths that clog up the bigger ones.

Cantona's Collars

I look at stuff on Redcafe,they have threads on individual players,for example Marcus Rashford and in that thread there are videos of his highlights etc.

What is the policy on posting such videos in a teams thread? Say Manchester United sign a player from another EPL team and youtube have a highlights reel,are we allowed post said video?

I don't post clips of goals in the soccer forum since the new policy on copyright but it seems not to be a problem in the Fantasy Football forum.

Posting videos with match footage is pretty clear cut. It's not allowed in the forum due to copyright.

RoboKlopp

RoboKlopp wrote: »

Posting videos with match footage is pretty clear cut. It's not allowed in the forum due to copyright.

Not very clear cut if you seem to believe posting match footage isn't allowed full stop.

Beasty wrote: »

The link in stickied thread in the forum states that posting stuff from the likes of Youtube is OK, The same will apply to Twitter stuff if it's clear that's where it's come from.

My understanding now is that as long as it's not technically hosted here then its OK.

Ah, didn't realise YouTube stuff from the league was ok.

RoboKlopp

RoboKlopp wrote: »

Ah, didn't realise YouTube stuff from the league was ok.

As above think its more got to do with other sites hosting the content not so much youtube specifically.

Flint Fredstone

It's mainly we'll run from my point of view.
I'll never quite understand how some posts go unpunished while others that are clearly nowhere near as bad pick up cards. Childish names for players should either all be allowed or all be worthy of a card, same goes for abusive names.
The names I've seen Mourinho be called over the last week or so go unchallenged...

BMMachine

The Humour Thread is mainly used for trolling. Its where trolls go to troll if they can't troll a match thread or other clubs thread. I have seen a well known troll (one who has been sitebanned before for trolling on this forum) talk about how great the trolling is on that thread.
Why is trolling allowed on the site?

Bounty Hunter

Flint Fredstone wrote: »

It's mainly we'll run from my point of view.
I'll never quite understand how some posts go unpunished while others that are clearly nowhere near as bad pick up cards. Childish names for players should either all be allowed or all be worthy of a card, same goes for abusive names.
The names I've seen Mourinho be called over the last week or so go unchallenged...

I'd wager the majority of the insults towards managers etc that go unpunished is because they are not reported. Mods won't see everything but if something like that is reported so as to be consistent the mods will 90% of the time take action (can't say 100% unless I've got a specific example of course).

GLaDOS

I think the problem with copyright is Ireland's laws particularly bad for holding the site stuff is posted on accountable, even if they aren't actually hosting it.

Flint Fredstone

Bounty Hunter wrote: »

I'd wager the majority of the insults towards managers etc that go unpunished is because they are not reported. Mods won't see everything but if something like that is reported so as to be consistent the mods will 90% of the time take action (can't say 100% unless I've got a specific example of course).

I reported a post where Mourinho was called a classless prick and a turd in the one sentence. Nothing.
I've seen people be carded for calling him Maureen.

Bounty Hunter

Bounty Hunter wrote: »

I'd wager the majority of the insults towards managers etc that go unpunished is because they are not reported. Mods won't see everything but if something like that is reported so as to be consistent the mods will 90% of the time take action (can't say 100% unless I've got a specific example of course).

To that point, if something isn't initially reported can it be reported say a week after and expect retrospective action?

LuckyLloyd

BMMachine wrote: »

The Humour Thread is mainly used for trolling. Its where trolls go to troll if they can't troll a match thread or other clubs thread. I have seen a well known troll (one who has been sitebanned before for trolling on this forum) talk about how great the trolling is on that thread.
Why is trolling allowed on the site?

I've never opened the humour thread, but I support the idea of a corner where the small minded can get their kicks. In that way it doesn't spill over to the main threads. As such, while it may seem counter intuitive, I think allowing a thread of that nature is a good decision.

BMMachine

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

I've never opened the humour thread, but I support the idea of a corner where the small minded can get their kicks. In that way it doesn't spill over to the main threads. As such, while it may seem counter intuitive, I think allowing a thread of that nature is a good decision.

so Homers cake in the simpsons? Have a thread for all the dribbling trolls to p*ss and sh*t in?