Should there be health warnings on alcohol

The flying mouse

THIS MORNING, SEVERAL reports indicate that Ireland is facing tough opposition from within the EU regarding its plans to bring in detailed health warning on alcohol products.

The previous government under then health minister Leo Varadkar set out plans last November to introduce five separate health warnings on alcohol bottles, including calorie counts and general health warnings.

Now, 11 EU countries have objected to the plan... Meanwhile, Fine Gael MEP Brian Hayes told RTÉ that the government “will have a significant problem if they want to get this legislation through”.

http://www.thejournal.ie/poll-alcohol-products-2794539-May2016/

Well should there be some sort of health warnings on alcohol ?

Don't have a problem with it if it makes people more aware of the dangers of abusing alcohol, Suppose though everyone knows that already ?

The flying mouse

No, I don't.

First warning

Budweiser is ****e










taken form the first comment in link,well I thought it was funny...

snubbleste

Yes.
Alcohol is a dangerous legal drug after all.

Are those 11 EU countries major wine/beer producers?

PirateShampoo

We have alcoholism in our family, this won't change a single thing and I don't really see the point in it myself.

The bigger issue is if this gets past what will the Irish Nanny State want to put labels on next?

Soft drinks will be a sure fire target, Sausages?, Chocolate? Etc.

Then what happens once they are done with food, there was already talk about porn on the Internet and banning UFC.

Lia_lia

I don't know really. Do those horrible photos on packets of fags really make smokers decide to smoke less/give up smoking?

The same philosophy should apply as applies to cigarettes.

K-9

I don't know if health warnings work that well for cigarettes, apparently plain packaging does make some difference.

Calorie counts yes, they should have sugar levels etc. same as all foods. Information is king!

Absolutely no point.. Everyone knows the dangers and even then, they're too broad a spectrum to put on a bottle.

"This could ruin your family if you let it take over your life."
"Drink too much of this stuff for a few years and you could damage your liver."
"You might think you're right when you drink this stuff but you're probably wrong."
"After you drink this, it is advisable to ignore that guy starting a fight outside SuperMacs."
"You may be living the life of a functioning alcoholic if you're reading this before noon."

Kopparberg Strawberry and Lime

People need stupid warnings stamped on their foreheads if they can't drink responsibly.

stampydmonkey

Would like to see calorie counts, sugar etc.

goz83

So what about the pint being served in the local pub? Print out the warnings on a receipt?

It's not a bad idea, but I don't see it making any difference.

AnonoBoy

PirateShampoo wrote: »

We have alcoholism in our family, this won't change a single thing and I don't really see the point in it myself.

I really don't think they're expecting unit information and calorie counts on bottles of beer to sort out alcoholics.

I think it's more so people can keep track of their own drinking. People are very vague on what a unit of alcohol is. I definitely am. I was drinking a foreign beer with the units on it the other day and it surprised me how much was in it.

It's not a bad idea really. Like everything - people will still happily ignore it but for the people who want the information it's good to have it there.

Andre 3000

They should put "Toxic Hazard" with the skull and crossbows on the Lidl and Alid vodka knockoffs. Better than any bleach. Still won't stop me buying and drinking them though

No, I don't.

I listened to RTÉ News this morning with incredulity: the Irish government is following through on an agreement in the Programme for Government to finally get serious about alcohol abuse in this state (which costs the state billions in lost productivity and health costs each year) and major EU powers are objecting.

"The Government's plan to set a minimum price for alcohol, restrict advertising and to demand health warnings and calorie counts on drinks cans and bottles was hailed last year as a key move to promote better public health.

But the move has sparked alarm in several EU countries, 11 of them, including France and Germany, have objected.

So too has the European Commission who fears it could be a barrier to free trade


The main concern is focused on the labelling requirements.

Population health expert Professor Joe Barry said Ireland was being kicked around by the EU on this issue."

Source: Health warnings on alcohol products facing EU opposition

So, putting accurate health information on the label that makes it clear that all that wine/beer is not good for you is a problem? Informing consumers with something other than the propaganda of incredibly powerful corporations and their multi-billion euro "marketing" budgets designed to romanticise this drug is the "main concern"? I'd trust Joe Barry's take on what needs to be done before i'd take it from any lobbyist for the alcohol industry. As somebody who has until recently been strongly pro-EU for political/cultural reasons - i.e. it helps breaks the smothering "all roads lead to mother England" inferiority complex which has marked Irish political discourse since 1800 - I find the objections by no fewer than 11 (of the 28) EU countries, including France and Germany mind you, staggeringly parochial. France, of all countries, comes out worse for per capita alcohol consumption than Ireland [2010 WHO data as I'm unable to find more current data: WHO: alcohol consumption in the EU (2010)]

---

If people could engage with this most serious social issue with more than "nanny state" Europhobic nonsense retched from the most base of the British tabloids that would be refreshingly different. Here's a bit of perspective from 2003: EU objections won't hold up pub smoke ban. Today, most EU countries, including France, have bans in public places. Alcohol has much more money behind it so hopefully the government will stand by what's right here.

Do you support the Irish government with this proposal?

keeponhurling

I would have thought it's not that much of a barrier, and you need to label by country anyways.

Pretty sure that for example, if you want to sell your beverage or food in France, you must have some basic information in French about the contents.
Similarly for other countries.
Your customer service line would be a local number etc.

So I really don't see such an issue to having to make a country specific label for Ireland.

Surely all the info that the government could require is already known by the producers of the drink

The flying mouse

No, I don't.

PirateShampoo wrote: »

We have alcoholism in our family, this won't change a single thing and I don't really see the point in it myself.

The bigger issue is if this gets past what will the Irish Nanny State want to put labels on next?

Soft drinks will be a sure fire target, Sausages?, Chocolate? Etc.

Then what happens once they are done with food, there was already talk about porn on the Internet and banning UFC.

Suppose one of the aims would be in the education of younger people who are just starting out in there drinking ways,and to try and counter the views that drinking huge amounts of alcohol is not a bad thing with no side effects.

Cant see any harm in it myself ,if anything as already been said the calorie and sugar info might help.

Poor Uncle Tom

It's about protecting people from themselves. ANYTHING consumed to excess is bad for you. Drink enough water and you could kill yourself.

People are idiots...........

SpannerMonkey

No, I don't.

i have no issue with it . the more information we have the better . i cant see it affecting how much i drink or what i drink but its still good to have the info

SEPT 23 1989

I propose a ration card system where weekly amounts of alcohol are allocated to the citizen based on age and social status obviously amounts distributed will not be enough to induce intoxication leading to unsightly weight gain or any sort of merriment

They mentioned minimum pricing on RTE as well. Whats happened with that I wonder? If its anything like the Scottish situation, it will be bogged down for years in legal wrangling. Hopefully it never sees the light of day. Blatant nanny state interference penalising the responsible majority.

http://www.rte.ie/news/2016/0529/791740-alcohol-legislation/

FortySeven

Are they going to put warnings on pint glasses? What about the plastic cups for special occasions?

drunkmonkey

Should be a coloured scale of hangover warnings on them..

FortySeven

[Deleted User] wrote: »

They mentioned minimum pricing on RTE as well. Whats happened with that I wonder? If its anything like the Scottish situation, it will be bogged down for years in legal wrangling. Hopefully it never sees the light of day. Blatant nanny state interference penalising the responsible majority.

http://www.rte.ie/news/2016/0529/791740-alcohol-legislation/

I have to take issue with this 'responsible majority.' It is just not the case that people drink responsibly all of the time. The very attraction of alcohol is largely around the lowering of inhibitions and the freedom of responsibility. Everyone has done something they regret while drinking and so it comes down to what is socially acceptable and what isn't. There is no easily defined line between being acceptably drunk and being irresponsible. A stroll sober through any town center on a Saturday night will quickly dispel any myths of responsible drinking in any form.

Phoebas

No, I don't.

The poll needs more options.

I agree with the Government proposals, but they should be EU wide.
Otherwise they are a barrier to trade in the single market because EU producers need to have special labelling for the Irish market and Irish producers need to have special labelling for the EU market.

Winterlong

I am not sure who would actually read the warnings and if they would make any difference to be honest. But if it keeps some people happy that the nanny state is alive and well, then so be it.

FortySeven

FortySeven wrote: »

A stroll sober through any town center on a Saturday night will quickly dispel any myths of responsible drinking in any form.

What percentage of drinkers overall are we looking at here though? Minimum pricing disguised as a 'health initiative' is a blunt hammer penalising everybody.

TerrorFirmer

Calorie counts is kinda interesting as most people don't think about calories when drinking (and rightly so unless you're drinking everyday), even though a session could be about 2000 calories.

France, of all countries, comes out worse for per capita alcohol consumption than Ireland [2010 WHO data as I'm unable to find more current data: WHO: alcohol consumption in the EU (2010)]

Per head consumption doesn't tell the full story though, it's more so how we drink alcohol in Ireland that's the issue. A glass of wine a day is no harm - seven or eight glasses in one sitting is quite the opposite.

Debil

No problem with it as long as they are consistent, and put it on everything else that can be harmful if you have a ****eload of it. Tuna, water, tic tacs, etc.

Wibbs

No, I don't.

Broadly agree. Not so sure about minimum pricing though. As for the "EU powers"? I'm royally fed up to the back teeth with them at this stage.

Sh1tbag OToole

There I was thinking alcohol was healthy all along. Suppose I'll have to take up cocaine now, no health warnings on that yet

Sunny Disposition

Can see why the British are seriously considering leaving EU when foreign bureaucrats are stopping an obviously good idea.

Atlantic Dawn

More realistic warnings would be better...
5 a day will give you a Ned Kelly.

FortySeven

[Deleted User] wrote: »

What percentage of drinkers overall are we looking at here though? Minimum pricing disguised as a 'health initiative' is a blunt hammer penalising everybody.

I have no idea of percentage but I worked bars all my adult life and I'm pretty sure almost everyone in this country has done something irresponsible while drunk at some stage.

I agree this is a blunt instrument and I believe it is a complete waste of time posting warnings on bottles. I just take issue with the attempt at grabbing some moral high ground as so often happens in this debate.

I could fill pages of this thread with names of 'responsible' people who were alcoholics. Some of whom would be in positions of great power and responsibility. The very nature of the drug negates any notion of responsible drinking.

sdanseo

This is Ireland. Your average drinker doesn't read the ingredients on the bottle, and they won't read the warnings either.

Minimum pricing is a government exercising too much restriction in a (theoretically) free market economy and shouldn't be allowed.

Sh1tbag OToole

sdanseo wrote: »

Your average drinker doesn't read the ingredients on the bottle

For some reason there are no ingredients on the bottle. Alcoholic drinks seem to be the only thing that gets away without publishing them.

Eire Go Brach

What's the point? Just look how most of the Irish public view Shane McGowan.
He is a walking advert for alcoholism. The amount of interview and media attention he gets is just stupid.

Galwayguy35

Won't make any difference to someone who wants to drink excessively IMO but it's a better idea than putting up the price of drink and punishing those of us who want to buy reasonably priced alcohol in supermarkets.

The flying mouse

No, I don't.

Poor Uncle Tom wrote: »

It's about protecting people from themselves. ANYTHING consumed to excess is bad for you. Drink enough water and you could kill yourself.

People are idiots...........

Debil wrote: »

No problem with it as long as they are consistent, and put it on everything else that can be harmful if you have a ****eload of it. Tuna, water, tic tacs, etc.

Yes of course ye are right but :rolleyes: People don't be sitting around buying pints of water or bars of chocolate every 30/45 minutes do they ?

There is a serious abuse of alcohol in this country and with it comes all sorts of social and domestic problems that cost a fortune to sort out ,from assaults to health, and if by putting labels on alcohol bottles makes more people aware, then what's the problem ?

Saying drinking water or eating tuna or tictacs is even remotely equal to alcohol consumption and the very real damage it does is ridiculous.

Debil

The flying mouse wrote: »

Yes of course ye are right but :rolleyes: People don't be sitting around buying pints of water or bars of chocolate every 30/45 minutes do they ?

There is a serious abuse of alcohol in this country and with it comes all sorts of social and domestic problems that cost a fortune to sort out ,from assaults to health, and if by putting labels on alcohol bottles makes more people aware, then what's the problem ?

Saying drinking water or eating tuna or tictacs is even remotely equal to alcohol consumption and the very real damage it does is ridiculous.

I'd imagine there are probably some crippling eating disorders where reaching for chocolate every 30/45 minutes isn't beyond the realm of possibility. Although, certainly less common than the alcohol issues in Ireland.

I agree with you, but I'd rather the money spent elsewhere. It seems like throwing money at the result rather than the cause.

TerrorFirmer

No, I don't.

TerrorFirmer wrote: »

Calorie counts is kinda interesting as most people don't think about calories when drinking (and rightly so unless you're drinking everyday), even though a session could be about 2000 calories.

Sh1tbag OToole wrote: »

For some reason there are no ingredients on the bottle. Alcoholic drinks seem to be the only thing that gets away without publishing them.

Very true, and very strange. The calorie content in even a few litres of beer is shocking. Some years ago I noticed that Coca Cola or most of the other ordinary (i.e. non diet) minerals didn't have the calorie content. Likewise, Bulmers, Guinness and all the rest of the drink companies seem to be a law unto themselves when it comes to denying consumers basic calorie and ingredients information on their products.

Galwayguy35

No, I don't.

Galwayguy35 wrote: »

Won't make any difference to someone who wants to drink excessively IMO but it's a better idea than putting up the price of drink and punishing those of us who want to buy reasonably priced alcohol in supermarkets.

Below cost selling of alcohol is great for the supermarkets and their customers who can drink more alcohol for less money and hopefully, in the eyes of said supermarkets, will get addicted to drinking more alcohol that they ever would have thought of.

It's not so great for those of us who end up in an A&E ward with drunks and their humours impeding the care of those of us who genuinely do need it. It's also not great for the Irish taxpayer who ends up footing the healthcare bill of such people, or the Irish businesses who lose because of absenteeism and associated problems.

They're welcome to their "free will" and "free markets" (ha!) for as long as it doesn't impede the lives of the rest of us.

Phoebas

No, I don't.

Phoebas wrote: »

I agree with the Government proposals, but they should be EU wide.
Otherwise they are a barrier to trade in the single market because EU producers need to have special labelling for the Irish market and Irish producers need to have special labelling for the EU market.

I agree entirely. Only EU-wide legislation will do the trick here. Not even Britain could stand up to the food industry with its food labelling proposals and caved into the might of that lobby and its need to conceal the sugar etc [Why food 'traffic-light' labels did not happen (July 2012)].

However, if we were waiting for EU-wide legislation we'd never have even the smoking ban in public places. Countries like Poland seem to be especially supportive of both the smoking and alcohol industries and therefore it's unlikely we'll get EU-wide legislation here, unfortunately.

Debil

Deleted User wrote: »

Very true, and very strange. The calorie content in even a few litres of beer is shocking. Some years ago I noticed that Coca Cola or most of the other ordinary (i.e. non diet) minerals didn't have the calorie content. Likewise, Bulmers, Guinness and all the rest of the drink companies seem to be a law unto themselves when it comes to denying consumers basic calorie and ingredients information on their products.

You'll definitely find ingredients on some bottles of beer, 6 pack wrappers, etc. It depends on what you're drinking I guess.

Never seen percentages of ingredients though, but I guess it's difficult to do this as you'd only be giving amounts of ingredients used in brewing which wouldn't be present in the final beer.

I haven't noticed any calorie content before, but I think it should be there if possible.

TerrorFirmer

No, I don't.

TerrorFirmer wrote: »

Per head consumption doesn't tell the full story though, it's more so how we drink alcohol in Ireland that's the issue. A glass of wine a day is no harm - seven or eight glasses in one sitting is quite the opposite.

I would have gone along with this at one stage. However, along with the famous French Paradox being debunked years ago, there is growing evidence in very recent times that even moderate consumption of alcohol is bad.

Is moderate drinking not so good for you after all? (March 2016)

Drinking alcohol offers no net health benefits (March 2016)

Moderate Alcohol Consumption May Not Offer Health Benefits: Study (March 2016)

P. Breathnach

Deleted User wrote: »

I would have gone along with this at one stage. However, along with the famous French Paradox being debunked years ago, there is growing evidence in very recent times that even moderate consumption of alcohol is bad.

Is moderate drinking not so good for you after all? (March 2016)

Drinking alcohol offers no net health benefits (March 2016)

Moderate Alcohol Consumption May Not Offer Health Benefits: Study (March 2016)

None of the pieces you linked supports your suggestion that "even moderate consumption of alcohol is bad". They simply call into question the claim that moderate consumption of alcohol is good. Between good and bad you have the neutral ground of "no significant effect".

darkpagandeath

So when will we see it on the Dail publicans Pint glasses ?

The flying mouse

No, I don't.

Mods ye may merge this with the other that I didn't see thanks,

SeanW

Deleted User wrote: »

Do you support the Irish government with this proposal?

Absolutely not. I keep hearing about various schemes by the government to increase the taxes and regulations on alcohol, and this idea of labelling it (like who doesn't already know that too much alcohol is not good for you?)

What I find bizarre in the extreme is the idea for minimum pricing - Ireland already has the highest alcohol pricing in the entire European Union, and has the 4th highest alcohol costs in the world (behind only Norway, Iceland and Singapore). How much more expensive should it be, according to our political establishment?

Impetus

When you buy food in the EU, it has to have a declaration of what is made from (ingredients) and the nutritional value (eg protein and carbs per 100g) etc.

No such laws apply to beverages.

The drinks industry would appear to have more political power in the corrupt EU than food processors.

Similarly when you buy foods produced allegedly within a shop, they are not required to have the same standard of disclosure as processed foods. One wonders why? eg Bread bought in a supermarket, "produced in store" is invariably factory produced, frozen, and receives a final bake in the shop's oven. Essentially the ingredients are factory controlled. No excuse for not labelling the stuff properly.

Ken.

Threads merged.

Galwayguy35

Deleted User wrote: »

Below cost selling of alcohol is great for the supermarkets and their customers who can drink more alcohol for less money and hopefully, in the eyes of said supermarkets, will get addicted to drinking more alcohol that they ever would have thought of.

It's not so great for those of us who end up in an A&E ward with drunks and their humours impeding the care of those of us who genuinely do need it. It's also not great for the Irish taxpayer who ends up footing the healthcare bill of such people, or the Irish businesses who lose because of absenteeism and associated problems.

They're welcome to their "free will" and "free markets" (ha!) for as long as it doesn't impede the lives of the rest of us.

Why should I be forced to pay more just because some gobsh1te doesn't know when to stop drinking?

Anyway the likes of them will drink no matter what the price of it just like with the smokes it won't stop them.