ESB cut estate lights off

cena

Some time this month the people of the estate where put on notice that the public lights would be switched off if the bill was not paid.

The guy that owns the estate was contacted to pay up the bill which he refused to do.

Have the ESB the right to do this? It is pitch black out there. I would be afraid the anyone could get hurt walking around and the safety of the kids

qo2cj1dsne8y4k

Why kids walking around the estate in the dark?
There's no street lights where I grew up and nobody died.
Can't expect a service you're not paying for.

cena

LexieOnRale wrote: »

Why kids walking around the estate in the dark?
There's no street lights where I grew up and nobody died.
Can't expect a service you're not paying for.

They well be out later during the summer holidays

qo2cj1dsne8y4k

cena wrote: »

They well be out later during the summer holidays

Hey, if they want to be out in the estate enjoying street lighting it needs to be paid for.

cena

LexieOnRale wrote: »

Hey, if they want to be out in the estate enjoying street lighting it needs to be paid for.

we where never given the chance the pay it. It is going to be paid as the sewage treatment has also been cut off

smash

Did you take over a ghost estate or something? Public services aren't usually cut like this.

Sh1tbag OToole

Few used car batteries and a solar panel from a school sign (or better - one of those orange roadworks signs on wheels), problem sorted.

DrGreenthumb

The lights are off and everybody is at home

cena

smash wrote: »

Did you take over a ghost estate or something? Public services aren't usually cut like this.

This is my thinking too

ted1

cena wrote: »

Some time this month the people of the estate where put on notice that the public lights would be switched off if the bill was not paid.

The guy that owns the estate was contacted to pay up the bill which he refused to do.

Have the ESB the right to do this? It is pitch black out there. I would be afraid the anyone could get hurt walking around and the safety of the kids

If it's a metered supply they have plenty right to cut it off. Any accident and the owner/Msnagement company will be to blame

cena

ted1 wrote: »

If it's a metered supply they have plenty right to cut it off. Any accident and the owner/Msnagement company will be to blame

Not sure if it is metered

qo2cj1dsne8y4k

Do you pay fees to a management company

cena

LexieOnRale wrote: »

Do you pay fees to a management company

No management company looking after the estate.

makingmecrazy

Where in the country are you?

cena

makingmecrazy wrote: »

Where in the country are you?

Galway county

ongarite

cena wrote: »

No management company looking after the estate.

Not a good situation there.
All the residents are liable for the bills for upkeep of the estate and could also be liable for any injury that occurs on the estate.
Also on the need to build up a sinking fund to fund any emergency repairs to road, footpaths, sewerage, etc...
Look into setting up your own management company and agent to look after it.

Ohbethehokey

cena wrote: »

No management company looking after the estate.

Start one, go knocking on doors for money if you want lights


Buy a torch if you don't

cena

ongarite wrote: »

Not a good situation there.
All the residents are liable for the bills for upkeep of the estate and could also be liable for any injury that occurs on the estate.
Also on the need to build up a sinking fund to fund any emergency repairs to road, footpaths, sewerage, etc...
Look into setting up your own management company and agent to look after it.

The upkeep is done by everyone living here.

Ruu

Grand stretch in the evenings.

ongarite

I'd advise getting this thread moved to Accommodation & Property.
This could turn into a legal mess for you/residents.

kneemos

Ruu wrote: »

Grand stretch in the evenings.

Thank God.

DontThankMe

Next they'll off your water since everyone has to pay for water now.

jd

cena wrote:

The guy that owns the estate was contacted to pay up the bill which he refused to do.

What do you mean by this. Looks to me like the estate was set with a management company and people haven't been paying service charges.

Roger Hassenforder

jd wrote: »

What do you mean by this. Looks to me like the estate was set with a management company and people haven't been paying service charges.

I take it this is an unfinished estate...

Check your contract documents, you may have a share in a management company, but the developer might not have signed it over.
Or there is no management company, development was to be taken in charge; Maybe not the green, but certainly the services including public lighting.

Have you contacted the council, they'll be aware if the developer was in trouble, and should have a bond for this eventuality. If the sewerage is turned off there's public health risks.

cena

Roger Hassenforder wrote: »

jd wrote: »

What do you mean by this. Looks to me like the estate was set with a management company and people haven't been paying service charges.

I take it this is an unfinished estate...

Check your contract documents, you may have a share in a management company, but the developer might not have signed it over.
Or there is no management company, development was to be taken in charge; Maybe not the green, but certainly the services including public lighting.

Have you contacted the council, they'll be aware if the developer was in trouble, and should have a bond for this eventuality. If the sewerage is turned off there's public health risks.

Not a unfinished estate. The owner was contacted to see what was happening.

Roger Hassenforder

cena wrote: »

Not a unfinished estate. The owner was contacted to see what was happening.

Is it a holiday development with people living there permanently?
Or
Is it a development still under development?

cena

Roger Hassenforder wrote: »

Is it a holiday development with people living there permanently?
Or
Is it a development still under development?

All 18 homes sold or been rented no empty homes.

endacl

cena wrote: »

we where never given the chance the pay it. It is going to be paid as the sewage treatment has also been cut off

Bad auld situation. Stinks.

gctest50

cena wrote: »

All 18 homes sold or been rented no empty homes.

How big is the bill ?

JustAThought

Here we have the classic in our two tiered society. One lot crucified with mortgage payments, saving for deposits, paying for everything the get & own ; the other half shrieking for them to pay for a free house for life for them .

About time the government tackles the huge issue of management companies & the councils refusal to deliver basic services to these homes despite the massive taxes their owners pay & have paid in atamp duty, etc. Disgusting.

Jayop

I live in an estate with no management company and we look after grass cutting and that ourselves. It never even crossed my mind who pays for the street lighting. I assumed it was the same as street lighting in the rest of the town.

Jayop

LexieOnRale wrote: »

Why kids walking around the estate in the dark?
There's no street lights where I grew up and nobody died.
Can't expect a service you're not paying for.

Can't expect street lighting? Are you for real?

Lantus

Unless its a gated development and private roads, paths etc it would be unusual for the street lights to be private.

Sounds like the developer still owns the lands. You need to establish what legal process should take place. I.e is a management company in place to maintain the estate but its not yet being used. Does the lease specify that the council will take in charge. You need to do some digging and ask this 'person' what the situation is. Just bear in mind they may be economical with the truth.

JustAThought

Lantus wrote: »

Unless its a gated development and private roads, paths etc it would be unusual for the street lights to be private.

Sounds like the developer still owns the lands. You need to establish what legal process should take place. I.e is a management company in place to maintain the estate but its not yet being used. Does the lease specify that the council will take in charge. You need to do some digging and ask this 'person' what the situation is. Just bear in mind they may be economical with the truth.

I used live in a gated development - there was no question of us paying for street lighting. Sounds very dogey. Have you asked the council - we were trying to be billed by a dogey management company for street lighting - it was on our 'audited' accounts - after I saw the contractor changing street lightbulbs I asked who employed them & they iconfirmed the council... Hey presto huge outrage & big angry mob at meeting. You wouldn't be up for the lies. Local councilers were utterly useless just made up sentences filled with probablys and assumptions with no research . But the planning staff were great - they knew the T&C's & got us sorted. Start with them - it might be a bond or fulfillment of terms of planning issue in which case the respondibility is on him - worth following up independently with council planning staff.

qo2cj1dsne8y4k

Jayop wrote: »

Can't expect street lighting? Are you for real?

Without paying for it. Yes I'm for real

jd

JustAThought wrote:

I used live in a gated development - there was no question of us paying for street lighting.

We live in a apartment and we pay for the outdoor lighting. The Coco certainly do not.

Jayop

Jayop wrote: »

Can't expect street lighting? Are you for real?

Not on private property or roads or common areas that are not taken in charge, which means most developments and almost all newer ones. And of course, houses in estate are usually on private property where either the developer still owns the common areas, roads etc or has transferred them to a management company. Same for insurance on common areas, public liability is not paid by the State, the developer or management company has to take out annual insurance.

ct5amr2ig1nfhp

Sign of the times I suppose. Another builder by us has built a large estate and has moved on to build apartments now in the same estate. He has refused to pay the county council fees that are due. He is trying to get the fees waived.

Anyone who has purchased in the estate is liable for the council fees now.

JustAThought

JustAThought wrote: »

I used live in a gated development - there was no question of us paying for street lighting. Sounds very dogey. Have you asked the council - we were trying to be billed by a dogey management company for street lighting - it was on our 'audited' accounts - after I saw the contractor changing street lightbulbs I asked who employed them & they iconfirmed the council... Hey presto huge outrage & big angry mob at meeting. You wouldn't be up for the lies. Local councilers were utterly useless just made up sentences filled with probablys and assumptions with no research . But the planning staff were great - they knew the T&C's & got us sorted. Start with them - it might be a bond or fulfillment of terms of planning issue in which case the respondibility is on him - worth following up independently with council planning staff.

The bond is really only security that the developer will bring roads and services and common areas up to scratch, it does not amount to confirmation that they are in charge. Unfortunately, in many instances the bonds were released, which can lead to huge problems where those have fallen into disrepair and there is no properly constituted management company.

hairyslug

Chances are the developer is about to go bust, there should be a bond in place with the co. co. and they will take over paying the bills.

Your best bet now is to try and get the estate taken in charge by the council, the developer can do this but itll cost him a few € proving that everything is up to scratch including sewage works.

cena

cena wrote: »

Not a unfinished estate. The owner was contacted to see what was happening.

You are not making a lot of sense, how can he/she be the owner if all of you have purchased the houses in the estate at best he/she was the developer think about it why would the original developer keep paying for public light.

Thre is something else gong on here.

mariaalice

mariaalice wrote: »

You are not making a lot of sense, how can he/she be the owner if all of you have purchased the houses in the estate at best he/she was the developer think about it why would the original developer keep paying for public light.

Thre is something else gong on here.

In estates, either the land is own privately and the owner builds the houses, or the land is owned privately and a separate entity builds the houses. Either way, the land is owned privately and is not the Council's responsibility, nor are any outgoings such as fixing the roads, paying for lighting etc. The developer should, in a proper development, put all services and common areas into compliance with planning, sell the properties, and transfer the common areas to the management company which consists of the individual house owners. Meanwhile the Council will have a bond, usually paid as part of the permission, as security to compel compliance and the completion of roads and services. This system worked for years but the property crash caused a lot of difficulties, hence the MUDs Act of 2011.

223vmax

hairyslug wrote: »

Chances are the developer is about to go bust, there should be a bond in place with the co. co. and they will take over paying the bills.

Your best bet now is to try and get the estate taken in charge by the council, the developer can do this but itll cost him a few € proving that everything is up to scratch including sewage works.

This is where you need to start. The normal process is that the council adopts the services however the developer must furnish the council with documents proving that the services to be adopted are in good condition and safe to maintain. In addition there are probably bond issues.... Ring the council and ask them what the situation is and take it from there. There are laws on providing public lighting as well as EN standards which the lighting should comply with...

"All public lighting installation for residential developments shall be designed to the requirements of IS EN 13201-2, IS EN 13201-3, and IS EN 13201-4, and BS 5489-1: 2013 which contains guidance and recommendations that are intended to support EN 13201 and assist designers of lighting systems in using the standard. "

Out of interest how many lights are we taiking about and how many houses?

223vmax

223vmax wrote: »

The normal process is that the council adopts the services however the developer must furnish the council with documents proving that the services to be adopted are in good condition and safe to maintain...

Wouldn't say that. It can take decades for the Council to take roads and services in charge, they simply do not have the funds to go in and take over private estates. Know of developments built in the 80s that are still not taken in charge. The normal process is that there is a condition in the planning that requires a management company to be formed and it takes responsibility until the services are taken in charge. There is usually an agreement between the developer, management company and Council which is contained in the standard Booklet of Title for the Estate, which should also contain a copy of the contract between the developer and the management company regarding the transfer of common areas to that company.

Councils don't wanna play ball with these ones and have been stalling in these issues for years. My own experience was they said no bond was in place even though there was and we got the developer (gone bust) to send them proof of it. They then said the camera survey of the sewers was out of date but this was due to them stalling so long. We insisted they organise another survey as it was their fault it expired.

This took a good few years.

There was one house left in the development and at this stage was owned by the banks. The purchaser insisted that final coat of Tarmac was laid in order for him to complete sale. That happened pretty quickly.

Have you local elections coming up? I found its the only time they pretend to be interested. Email them, phone them and stop them on the street demanding they give this issue urgent attention. Do the same with TD's as they know this could be a short lived government.

Strawberry Milkshake

Strawberry Milkshake wrote: »

...they said no bond was in place even though there was and we got the developer (gone bust) to send them proof of it. They then said the camera survey of the sewers was out of date but this was due to them stalling so long. We insisted they organise another survey as it was their fault it expired.

This took a good few years.

There was one house left in the development and at this stage was owned by the banks. The purchaser insisted that final coat of Tarmac was laid in order for him to complete sale. That happened pretty quickly.

Have you local elections coming up? I found its the only time they pretend to be interested. Email them, phone them and stop them on the street demanding they give this issue urgent attention. Do the same with TD's as they know this could be a short lived government.

You certainly have a lot of the gist of it.

Dealing with the Council and the Bond can take years and they raise issue after issue, then just as they are all dealt with, they'll raise a whole new set of issues and explain it away with a "new engineer in the Council" type line. They used to be so careless with them, during the boom they handed them back for the asking assuming that the developer would make ore money and more money and always be good for doing the roads and services at some stage.

And you are correct, the best results are usually achieved by getting a politician to thump tables.

I don't know how it works at all, we pay 50 euro a year and it gets all the grass cut and the estate keep nice, it never occurred to me who pays for the street lights. The estate I live in was built around 30/35 years ago

mariaalice

mariaalice wrote: »

I don't know how it works at all, we pay 50 euro a year and it gets all the grass cut and the estate keep nice, it never occurred to me who pays for the street lights. The estate I live in was built around 30/35 years ago

It sounds like you are paying into a residents association rather than a formal management company. With the estate built that long ago, the services may be in charge by now, but a residents association may be doing additional work. You'd know if you were paying for insurance and lighting...it'd almost certainly be more than €50 for starters!

Wanderer78

Ah well, at least general taxation is falling!

Uncle Ben

Nothing new here. If the estate hasn't been taken in charge by local authority the services therein are the responsibility of the individual occupants. In a lot of cases also the development levy or bond is either spent already or else isn't or wasn't enough to cover the required remedial works.

As other posters have stated the way this can be resolved will depend on how loud your local td or councillor shouts.
Sad but true.

cena

gctest50 wrote: »

How big is the bill ?

I think around 540