Mormons in Cork City

Okalina64

The Mormon missionaries have descended upon Cork City again, and can be seen going around Patrick Street most days, stopping you and asking you to join their church. There's four male missionaries (Elders) and two female missionaries (Sisters)

Out of general interest:

Have they ever stopped you and asked you to join them?
How did you react? Did you listen? Or did you tell them to go away?
And, if you did listen, did you ever go for any lessons with them? Did you make it to baptism?
What's your general opinion of them?

mordeith

Okalina64 wrote: »

What's your general opinion of them?

The same as the Muslim lads giving out information on Islam on Grand Parade or the people selling the 'Alive' magazine i.e. misguided

jimgoose

Sir, can I talk to you about Cheeses??

Lyaiera

jimgoose wrote: »

Sir, can I talk to you about Cheeses??

Body of life, with a delicate little soft cheese from a small village in the south-east of France and a lovely merlot.

whisky_galore

Any denomination promoting their religion on the street is way up there with chuggers on the annoyance scale.

Fcuk off and practice your religion privately, don't get in my face.

Okalina64

whisky_galore wrote: »

Any denomination promoting their religion on the street is way up there with chuggers on the annoyance scale.

Fcuk off and practice your religion privately, don't get in my face.

At least it's better than when they go door-to-door, which the Mormons don't do in Cork anymore.

whisky_galore

Okalina64 wrote: »

At least it's better than when they go door-to-door, which the Mormons don't do in Cork anymore.

At least you can keep unwanted visitors like Jehovahs and their fellow religious travellers outside the door.

darkdubh

I find the Mormon crowd annoying as fcuk.Nearly standing in your way sometimes and some of them come across as really smarmy.

Herb Powell

I don't find them as bad as the weirdos putting on street shows through PAs. I find it physically offputting, cringe every time.

darkdubh

Herb Powell wrote: »

I don't find them as bad as the weirdos putting on street shows through PAs. I find it physically offputting, cringe every time.

The youth crowd (from The States I think) who show up a couple of times a year and do those weird mini street dramas with someone fighting off "sin",usually in front of Brown Thomas?Theyre a bit strange all right.They usually have a guy rapping as well.

Jeju

Where do they stand on the water issue?

KingBrian2

They are entitled to preach I see or used to see a lot of preachers in Dublin they gather a lot of notice from the public. Usually inoffensive people.

Okalina64

Jeju wrote: »

Where do they stand on the water issue?

Who? The Mormons? :L I'll ask them tomorrow.

whisky_galore

Jeju wrote: »

Where do they stand on the water issue?

What would Jesus do?

Walk on it, I'd say.

Herb Powell

KingBrian2 wrote: »

They are entitled to preach I see or used to see a lot of preachers in Dublin they gather a lot of notice from the public. Usually inoffensive people.

Of course they are, I just find them fuccking weird :pac:

They make me really uncomfortable.

Pro Hoc Vice

whisky_galore wrote: »

What would Jesus do?

Walk on it, I'd say.

Na bet he would turn it into wine.

micar

Mormons or morons......perhaps the same thing!!

Manach

Based on my encounter with such:

Aggressive in the way they stop you on the street.
Arrogant in the way they are dismissive of other beliefs.
Thin skinned when various historically counter rebuttals were raised.
Bullying and blustering behaviour when one was not brow-beat into backing down. Considering this paricular person was about twice my bulk, I retreated before it turned even nastier. However my former rather positive take on Mormons has been altered significantly.

Milly33

Is that who they are.. I remember being stopped ages ago in the days of going to town, and they were fine... Not to pushy or anything

endacl

walsh08

They have a facebook page called 'Cork branch news' if you look them up.Irish people have joined them.Would see a lot of them as I live by the church which goes on for 3 hours each Sunday in Wilton.
Absolute cult. They have called to my door but told them I wasn't interested.Could have engaged in a debate about Joseph Smith their founder but thought it would be futile.

Saw them in town over the weekend.They use the buses alot to get around.

This is not a seasonal thing though.They are here constantly and transfer to Limerick/Dublin/Galway etc. every so often.

Okalina64

walsh08 wrote: »

They have a facebook page called 'Cork branch news' if you look them up.Irish people have joined them.Would see a lot of them as I live by the church which goes on for 3 hours each Sunday in Wilton.
Absolute cult. They have called to my door but told them I wasn't interested.Could have engaged in a debate about Joseph Smith their founder but thought it would be futile.

Saw them in town over the weekend.They use the buses alot to get around.

This is not a seasonal thing though.They are here constantly and transfer to Limerick/Dublin/Galway etc. every so often.

What makes you think they're a cult? And yeah, they use buses a lot. They're mainly found on the 214 bus as that's the one that stops outside their church.
The two Sisters (female missionaries) and two of the Elders (male missionaries) left this week, so the remaining two Elders have new companions.

walsh08

They are a cult. No doubt about that. Pretty easy to verify too if you speak to any members who have seen the light or if you research them online.They even take 10 per cent of your income as 'tithing'.

A good place to start is by researching the 'CES letter' online.It asks great questions about the book of Mormon which Smith claims was reveals to him lol such as 'What are 1769 King James Version edition errors doing in the Book of Mormon? An
ancient text?' and it also asks why are there so many accounts of Smith's 'first vision' and how it was translated.

It's not like you'd forget a vision like that.

And after having a vision of God/Jesus who told Smith 'not to join any other church' why did Smith try to join a few other churches.He had over 40 wives and died in gun battle.Look up their temple rituals if you want a real shock.

Don't worry, where those missionaries have departed there will be brand new missionaries(greenies ie newbies if the area is being 'whitewashed') to take their place.They are often transferred round the Scotland/Ireland mission.

Okalina64

walsh08 wrote: »

They are a cult. No doubt about that. Pretty easy to verify too if you speak to any members who have seen the light or if you research them online.They even take 10 per cent of your income as 'tithing'.

A good place to start is by researching the 'CES letter' online.It asks great questions about the book of Mormon which Smith claims was reveals to him lol such as 'What are 1769 King James Version edition errors doing in the Book of Mormon? An
ancient text?' and it also asks why are there so many accounts of Smith's 'first vision' and how it was translated.

It's not like you'd forget a vision like that.

And after having a vision of God/Jesus who told Smith 'not to join any other church' why did Smith try to join a few other churches.He had over 40 wives and died in gun battle.Look up their temple rituals if you want a real shock.

Don't worry, where those missionaries have departed there will be brand new missionaries(greenies ie newbies if the area is being 'whitewashed') to take their place.They are often transferred round the Scotland/Ireland mission.

1. On the issue of tithing - it's a once-off annual payment. Most Churches have tithing - the Catholic Church expects you to pay money every Sunday, and then to provide an additional contribution around Christmas/Easter time. Besides, the money helps people like missionaries or disadvantaged ward members who mightn't have much money. The church members aren't paid, so this is the only income they get to maintain it.

2. I've done a lot of thinking about how the BoM features errors from the King James bible. Maybe Smith found it easier to quote passages from it instead of having to go through the effort of translating every single word from the brass plates, for sentences that already had an English translation readily available. /// Where's your proof that Smith had various accounts of his first vision? That could have been something the naysayers made up, to try and make him look like a conman.

3. He tried to join other churches? I haven't heard that before. Source? (I know he was joining various churches BEFORE he had the visions, and none of the churches were true, which is why he wanted God to appear to him in the first place, but I don't see why he'd join churches after gaining revelation)

4. Yes, the polygamy thing is an odd one, especially concerning their views on homosexuality. ("Marriage is supposed to be between man and woman, it's not ok for man to be with man but it's somehow ok for man to have a hundred wives) The temple stuff is stuff people make up online. The temple ceremonies don't actually require you to cut your throat or whatever else people claim.

5. What do you mean by "if the area is being whitewashed?" Do they only bring in white missionaries or... (and yes, I realise that 99% of missionaries in the world are white, and the church has had a pretty odd history when it comes to coloured people) The surprising thing is that one of the missionaries who's still there (despite most of the others moving away) has been here since like February, while both of the missionaries who got transferred were there for a shorter time than that - one of them had only been here for a few weeks. Any idea why that is?

walsh08

The tithing has various uses including funding the building of large malls in Salt Lake City,building new temples and paying the 15 apostles large wages.Other churches pass voluntary baskets eg. the Catholic church to pay for trained clergy members.You should look into how the church uses its revenue.

Again I would recommend the CES letter;
http://cesletter.com/

The reason there are specific errors,including ones only found in the King James Bible is because that's the one Smith had in his possession at the time.He did not receive a first vision,he copied large chunks directly from the bible and had assistance from other men to write his fiction.

Nope the naysayers are not making up his multiple visions.Have you read the contradictory 1832,two 1835,1838 and 1842 accounts?
Yes he did attempt to join many other churches AFTER 'his visions'.



Regarding Joseph and his wives yes he did commit paedophilia and polygamy and many more crimes.The throat slitting has now been removed from the temple ceremony but did exist.

Nowadays,truth be told, the temple rites are more of the pyramid scheme to get full tithe payers to pay up to enter.




Whitewashing is essentially when they bring in all new missionaries to an area.There is generally no specific reason for missionaries staying longer in one area.Most move calls are 'inspired'.Missionaries in the Scotland Ireland mission could return to an area during their mission.

Okalina64

walsh08 wrote: »

The tithing has various uses including funding the building of large malls in Salt Lake City,building new temples and paying the 15 apostles large wages.Other churches pass voluntary baskets eg. the Catholic church to pay for trained clergy members.You should look into how the church uses its revenue.

Again I would recommend the CES letter

The reason there are specific errors,including ones only found in the King James Bible is because that's the one Smith had in his possession at the time.He did not receive a first vision,he copied large chunks directly from the bible and had assistance from other men to write his fiction.

Nope the naysayers are not making up his multiple visions.Have you read the contradictory 1832,two 1835,1838 and 1842 accounts?
Yes he did attempt to join many other churches AFTER 'his visions'.



Regarding Joseph and his wives yes he did commit paedophilia and polygamy and many more crimes.The throat slitting has now been removed from the temple ceremony but did exist.

Nowadays,truth be told, the temple rites are more of the pyramid scheme to get full tithe payers to pay up to enter.




Whitewashing is essentially when they bring in all new missionaries to an area.There is generally no specific reason for missionaries staying longer in one area.Most move calls are 'inspired'.Missionaries in the Scotland Ireland mission could return to an area during their mission.

1. Yes, I've heard of the Salt Lake City malls (and how massive they are) but only in passing reference. That does seem like an unnecessary use of tithing money, but then again other churches use money in a similar way (the Catholic Church built an entire country using church money!)

2. The basket of the Catholic Church may be "voluntary" but there's also the money you're expected to pay at Christmas time and Easter time. Also, not 100% sure on this, but I'm guessing there's no one forcing LDS members to pay tithing, or no one checking that they're actually paying the right amount. When I asked the missionaries "how does the Church know if you're paying the right amount", they said that the church doesn't, but it's between you and God and that you'd be lying to God, so maybe people don't have to pay tithing if they don't want to?

3. I'm heading to sleep soon, but I'll check out the CES Letter tomorrow. Honestly, I don't know what to say about his multiple accounts, if they're accounts that came from him himself instead of from naysayers. And yes, he slept with two 14 year old girls which is gross, but at the end of the day he isn't the Saviour - he was human, and had flaws. He's just a prophet who was asked by God to help spread the message and whether or not he made mistakes along the way is irrelevant to the bigger picture. He was just one of many prophets who's helped Jesus maintain His church. And yes, I realise that a large part of that is me not wanting to think about the more erroneous sides of the church right now, it would only be destructive as I (and anyone else who the Cork Mormons have contacted, who may be reading this thread) continue our investigating.

4. Okay, but why is it called white-washing? I don't get how bringing in all new missionaries is the same as making sure there's no black people??

walsh08

The money issue goes a little deeper in that the church wants members/investigators to believe it uses it for good causes but again I will say spending money on salaries of the top 15 apostles,temples(some hardly used) and shopping malls does not seem all that Christian to me.

Oh yes the church does know what you do or don't pay.Unless you are a full tithe payer you do not get access to the temple for weddings,ceremonies etc.You even get a thing called a 'temple recommend' slip.What's more mormons do not believe you will enter the highest level of heaven without being a full tithing member.You will even find this on their own website.


To be honest his character speaks volumes to me.He was a gold digger,a fraud,a storyteller,a liar and a cheat.Yes he was human but I would not be inclined to believe someone with his reputation's claims.He was notorious for lies and scamming people.Look it up.


He simply could not remember what vision he claimed he had so had to keep vaying it.He also did not tell anyone about seeing God/Jesus for many years after he saw them.
Weird or what?!


Whitewashing actually has nothing to do with black people.It's just when new missionaries come to an area.Although you are right in thinking the church treated African Americans horribly in the past.


While not a Mormon or ex-Mormon or anything like that myself I can also recommend a great site called exmormon.org.It's very informative.


Hope your logic wins and you see why so many don't join/have left/are leaving.

darkdubh

MOD SNIP
Different topic

whisky_galore

MOD SNIP

hufpc8w3adnk65

Lets stay on topic and keep an open mind

mordeith

Mormons on the street are no worse than any other hawker of other religious beliefs, charity collectors or any other type of street vendor. Best to just politely ignore them if you have in interest in their product.