Naughty L & N plate drivers are getting caught.

Henry Ford III

http://www.newstalk.com/Average-of-six-learner-drivers-a-day-receiving-penalty-points-for-driving-unaccompanied

Seems to be quite an amount of people who routinely ignore these laws, and a belief that there's no enforcement of them.

Whilst consistant and even enforcement isn't happening it seems a few are getting caught and punished.

wonski

Henry Ford III wrote: »

http://www.newstalk.com/Average-of-six-learner-drivers-a-day-receiving-penalty-points-for-driving-unaccompanied

Seems to be quite an amount of people who routinely ignore these laws, and a belief that there's no enforcement of them.

Whilst consistant and even enforcement isn't happening it seems a few are getting caught and punished.

From your link:

Unaccompanied drivers face receiving two penalty points (or four on conviction) as well as an €80 fine...

Nothing to worry about, then.

Last time I was stopped was so long ago that I can't remember.

Not surprised that nobody cares tbh.

shietpilot

I'm surprised they're actually putting it into practice now! I used to drive on my L-plate but very rarely to be honest and I remember absolutely sh*tting it when I spotted a Garda car

wonski

Read again

VincePP

good - because they can be a nuisance on the roads.

Driving test wait time is less than 3 months, so no excuse these days. In the UK they take the car off you on the spot if you don't have a valid licence - so tow fees also apply.

wonski

wonski wrote: »

Read again

It was in response to the poster who removed the post as I was typing

Hal1

I've lost count of the number of cars displaying both L and N plates.

Henry Ford III

wonski wrote: »

From your link:

Unaccompanied drivers face receiving two penalty points (or four on conviction) as well as an €80 fine...

Nothing to worry about, then.

Last time I was stopped was so long ago that I can't remember.

Not surprised that nobody cares tbh.

They are getting caught and punished though. That's the whole point of the article.

FortySeven

Good to know they are starting to get serious about this. Can we finally put to bed the idea that the only thing you have to do in this country to drive is to not pass a test?

Ave Sodalis

wonski wrote:

It was in response to the poster who removed the post as I was typing

Yeah that was me. I read the article twice and somehow my eyes completely skipped over the paragraph on N plates both times.

_Brian

Ahh yes the Irish solution.

Your stopped with no liscence and so no insurance. So the solution is collect €80 for the government and send you on your way, unaccompanied and still uninsured.

Henry Ford III

Hal1 wrote: »

I've lost count of the number of cars displaying both L and N plates.

I passed a few L plate displayers on 2 motorways earlier.

There's no excuse - if they are qualified drivers they should take them down.

RustyNut

_Brian wrote: »

Ahh yes the Irish solution.

Your stopped with no liscence and so no insurance. So the solution is collect €80 for the government and send you on your way, unaccompanied and still uninsured.

Is driving uninsured not a court appearance and 5 points?

Dravokivich

Henry Ford III wrote: »

I passed a few L plate displayers on 2 motorways earlier.

There's no excuse - if they are qualified drivers they should take them down.

Why?

A licensed driver is not required to take the L plate down.

Hal1 wrote: »

I've lost count of the number of cars displaying both L and N plates.

There's nothing wrong with that once it's not the Novice accompanying the Learner.

wonski

Henry Ford III wrote: »

They are getting caught and punished though. That's the whole point of the article.

Agreed.

Funny thing is that I was only asked for my license once when going through checkpoint, so their detection rate could be a bit better

I know of few people driving on permit for more than a year and they don't appear to be bothered at all.

My point is that without Garda presence all offences go unnoticed.

According to the article 76 drivers a day are caught using mobile while driving.

I see at least 5 a day during 20 minutes journeys to work.

Given the area they cover 76 doesn't sound that impressive. Not to mention 6 unaccompanied drivers a day on average...

Henry Ford III

Dravokivich wrote: »

Why?

A licensed driver is not required to take the L plate down.

Really? I find that hard to believe. Can you substantiate it?

wowy

Henry Ford III wrote: »

I passed a few L plate displayers on 2 motorways earlier.

There's no excuse - if they are qualified drivers they should take them down.

L-plate doesn't necessarily mean that that particular driver is a learner. My GF is learning to drive. I regularly drive her car - should I be expected to take the l-plates off when I'm driving it? How about when we swop around during journeys?

pippip

Henry Ford III wrote: »

Really? I find that hard to believe. Can you substantiate it?

It can't be substantiated, the only mention of L plates in Irish Law is that you must have them up if you are a learner, never appears anywhere else.

Speedwell

My driving instructor drives in his training vehicle with the L plates up all the time. He had to, to come pick me up at my home so we could go to lessons. As a recent learner driver I can remember only rules that say learner drivers must have the L plate, not that nobody else could.

If you are stopped while driving alone with L plates up, the garda will ask you if you have a full license. Presumably that is a check to see whether you are violating the learner driver rule.

wonski

Henry Ford III wrote: »

I passed a few L plate displayers on 2 motorways earlier.

There's no excuse - if they are qualified drivers they should take them down.

I passed a driving school (instructor) car in Naas very recently with both N AND L displayed

True story.

Henry Ford III

wowy wrote: »

L-plate doesn't necessarily mean that that particular driver is a learner. My GF is learning to drive. I regularly drive her car - should I be expected to take the l-plates off when I'm driving it? How about when we swop around during journeys?

Yes. I don't think that's at all unreasonable.

Magnetic L plates are easily taken on and off.

Dravokivich

Henry Ford III wrote: »

Really? I find that hard to believe. Can you substantiate it?

It's not stated anywhere they are required to be taken off, when a licensed driver is driving the car.

Exhibit A: Driving Instructors cars.

wonski

Dravokivich wrote: »

Why?

A licensed driver is not required to take the L plate down.



There's nothing wrong with that once it's not the Novice accompanying the Learner.

Most regularly unaccompanied learners drive without l plates up to avoid detection anyway.

They put them up once every year or two at the test centre.

Henry Ford III

wonski wrote: »

Most regularly unaccompanied learners drive without l plates up to avoid detection anyway.

They put them up once every year or two at the test centre.

And now they are getting done for it, which presumably is good news.

niallam

Everyone that drives to their test alone should get an automatic fail....
You get stopped for driving unaccompanied, you get a fine and points and sent on your way, still unaccompanied

shietpilot

niallam wrote: »

Everyone that drives to their test alone should get an automatic fail....
You get stopped for driving unaccompanied, you get a fine and points and sent on your way, still unaccompanied

To be honest you should see the amount of unaccompanied drivers at driving test centres.

I've seen people pulling into the driving test centre car park and sticking on L plates for the driving test and then pulling them back off after the test! Crazy really :rolleyes:

savagethegoat

_Brian wrote: »

Ahh yes the Irish solution.

Your stopped with no liscence and so no insurance. So the solution is collect €80 for the government and send you on your way, unaccompanied and still uninsured.

Your Insurance is still valid if you drive unaccompanied, but only to the minimum degree required by Law. You won't get anything for your own damage or injuries in the case of an accident and the Ins Co may well come after you for anything they have to pay out to a third party.

duffman3833

i find it a silly rule tbh, If you need a car for work and your only learning, you cant have someone with you all the time, or if car is your only form of transport to college since you might live in the middle of no where. Parents\partners have jobs too

Speedwell

I had to go unaccompanied to the test centre for my test. My husband doesn't drive due to an eye injury he sustained as a young teenager (so he never learned and reportedly doesn't pass the vision test anyway). We don't have any friends or family close by to take me. I didn't have the money that week to hire the driving instructor for the occasion (unexpected medical expenses). I don't know who else I could have asked to go with me. Fortunately I still had a valid foreign license. I admit I was stretching a point to rely on it while I held an Irish provisional, but at least I could prove I wasn't a complete danger on the roadways.

I don't know what I would have done otherwise. I don't even know how I could have learned or practiced if I didn't have my foreign license as a fallback. You can't always take the bus everywhere.

wonski

duffman3833 wrote: »

i find it a silly rule tbh, If you need a car for work and your only learning, you cant have someone with you all the time, or if car is your only form of transport to college since you might live in the middle of no where. Parents\partners have jobs too

What is the point of a driving license then?

Let's scrap it and make it free for all to drive a car :

duffman3833

wonski wrote: »

What is the point of a driving license then?

Let's scrap it and make it free for all to drive a car :

If you were in that situation, where you were a learner driver and had no full licensed driver with you, lived in the country side and had a job. what would you do?

savagethegoat

duffman3833 wrote: »

i find it a silly rule tbh, If you need a car for work and your only learning, you cant have someone with you all the time, or if car is your only form of transport to college since you might live in the middle of no where. Parents\partners have jobs too

A Provisional is to facilitate you learning, not to use to get to work/college. Until you demonstrate your ability to meet minimum standards, you need to be accompanied, it isn't a silly rule at all.

Henry Ford III

I've sympathy for anyone who would like to drive by can't legally.

I've none for those who have a sense of entitlement to routinely drive illegally though.

wonski

duffman3833 wrote: »

If you were in that situation, where you were a learner driver and had no full licensed driver with you, lived in the country side and had a job. what would you do?

I never said I have never done this.

But I never said it was unfair to expect people to pass the test or fine them, too.

One law for all. That's it.

I got my license as soon as I could while a lot of people are driving on their second and third provisional.

Pugzilla

wowy wrote: »

My GF is learning to drive. I regularly drive her car - should I be expected to take the l-plates off when I'm driving it?

Yes, most L plates only take seconds to change.

Typical Irish attitude, pure laziness.
Hate F'ers like this.

duffman3833

savagethegoat wrote: »

A Provisional is to facilitate you learning, not to use to get to work/college. Until you demonstrate your ability to meet minimum standards, you need to be accompanied, it isn't a silly rule at all.

So spend a fortune on taxi's which will eat up their wages. Also how are they meant to learn if no one is available to go with them. I just think it's a bit unfair, in some cases, especially country folk. If you live in middle of no where and need to get to work or college and you cant drive, how else you going to get there?

Henry Ford III

duffman3833 wrote: »

If you were in that situation, where you were a learner driver and had no full licensed driver with you, lived in the country side and had a job. what would you do?

Find a way to get to work legally? That might involve moving home, getting a lift, car pooling or other method.

Speedwell

I don't know, folks. When I was a provisional driver in the US, I was able to walk in for my test when I felt ready and was tested the same day. In fact I failed the first time due to nerves, was allowed to resit a few hours later, and passed. You could be born a perfect driver in Ireland and still have to take 12 lessons and wait three further months before you get your N plates (I refuse to call it a "full" license").

GreatDefector

wowy wrote: »

L-plate doesn't necessarily mean that that particular driver is a learner. My GF is learning to drive. I regularly drive her car - should I be expected to take the l-plates off when I'm driving it? How about when we swop around during journeys?

Yes. Simple. If I see you in your own on the motorway what do I think?

I think, there's a learner on his own on a motorway. If I was a guard I'd be pulling you

If it makes no difference what I think then I ask what the feck is the point in plates at all? Bit like indicators on BMW's (pointless)

wonski

duffman3833 wrote: »

So spend a fortune on taxi's which will eat up their wages. Also how are they meant to learn if no one is available to go with them. I just think it's a bit unfair, in some cases, especially country folk. If you live in middle of no where and need to get to work or college and you cant drive, how else you going to get there?

Some claim that insurance on learner's permit is eating their wages, too. And tax and nct etc...

There always is a solution, but if you risk driving without a license and are caught you have to be penalized, otherwise the whole system is pointless.

FortySeven

duffman3833 wrote: »

So spend a fortune on taxi's which will eat up their wages. Also how are they meant to learn if no one is available to go with them. I just think it's a bit unfair, in some cases, especially country folk. If you live in middle of no where and need to get to work or college and you cant drive, how else you going to get there?

How about foregoing some of your wages for driving lessons?

I've heard some whiney, self entitled diatribe in my time but this takes the biscuit.

pippip

Pugzilla wrote: »

Yes, most L plates only take seconds to change.

Typical Irish attitude, pure laziness.
Hate F'ers like this.

They do in their f&%k!!!! most annoying fiddly little bast%$ds to fit in windows.

Speedwell

FortySeven wrote: »

How about foregoing some of your wages for driving lessons?

I've heard some whiney, self entitled diatribe in my time but this takes the biscuit.

How are you supposed to have wages to forgo if you can't get to work? Not everyone f*cking lives in Dublin, a fact which most people on these forums regularly forget.

As for insurance with a provisional... Since I drove for 30 years in the US, I was able to get full no-claims bonus. But that's certainly not typical.

duffman3833

wonski wrote: »

Some claim that insurance on learner's permit is eating their wages, too. And tax and nct etc...

There always is a solution, but if you risk driving without a license and are caught you have to be penalized, otherwise the whole system is pointless.

yes i understand all that, but not thought through fully. I think they should be accompanied by fully licensed driver until their 12 lessons are up and then let the instructor decide if OK for them to drive alone or something like that. I don't know the solution for it but all im saying is its not practical for everyone, and not the best rule, that's all

Caliden

duffman3833 wrote: »

So spend a fortune on taxi's which will eat up their wages. Also how are they meant to learn if no one is available to go with them. I just think it's a bit unfair, in some cases, especially country folk. If you live in middle of no where and need to get to work or college and you cant drive, how else you going to get there?

How did the person manage BEFORE getting a provisional?

almostover

GreatDefector wrote: »

wowy wrote: »

L-plate doesn't necessarily mean that that particular driver is a learner. My GF is learning to drive. I regularly drive her car - should I be expected to take the l-plates off when I'm driving it? How about when we swop around during journeys?

Yes. Simple. If I see you in your own on the motorway what do I think?

I think, there's a learner on his own on a motorway. If I was a guard I'd be pulling you

If it makes no difference what I think them I ask what the feck is the point in plates at all? Bit like indicators on BMW's (pointless)

Didn't think it was your responsibility to enforce road traffic laws?

My sister is currently learning in my mother's car. L plates are on the car, mother often drives alone with them up. They're adhesive ones. Really don't see how my mother, who has 30+ years of driving experience, is inconveniencing anyone by driving her car with L plates on it. She is hardly going to detach them and reattach them every time she takes my sister out to practice.

Speedwell

Caliden wrote: »

How did the person manage BEFORE getting a provisional?

In my case, I spent far too much of my dwindling savings on buses and cabs and inflated prices at the inadequate local shop. There were a lot of normal adult functioning sorts of things I was just plain unable to do.

Pro Hoc Vice

_Brian wrote: »

Ahh yes the Irish solution.

Your stopped with no liscence and so no insurance. So the solution is collect €80 for the government and send you on your way, unaccompanied and still uninsured.

A person is only uninsured if they do not have insurance. Being unlicenced does not (no matter what anyone tells you) invalidate any policy of insurance.

Alun

duffman3833 wrote: »

... and then let the instructor decide if OK for them to drive alone or something like that.

We already have a mechanism for deciding if somebody is capable of driving alone, it's called a "driving test".

duffman3833

Caliden wrote: »

How did the person manage BEFORE getting a provisional?

Example.
If its a young person, they had no job as they weren't old enough and didn't need a car, so this young person turns 17, wants a job, or go college and no way to get there, cant get a job as there is no way to get there. No Job

Alun

almostover wrote: »

She is hardly going to detach them and reattach them every time she takes my sister out to practice.

Why on earth not? That's exactly what my parents did when I was learning. Mind you that was back in the UK where you'd, quite rightly, get pulled for driving alone with L plates up.

The thing is, with so many people who are not learners driving around with L plates up, it makes them utterly pointless.