Gardai identify new speed enforcement zones in Limerick

Comhrá

http://www.limerickleader.ie/news/home/207985/Gardai-identify-new-speed-enforcement-zones.html

wheres da sun

new location - Condel Road from pedestrian lights at Russell Park to Tunnel Roundabout. you'd wonder why they didn't just continue the whole of the Condel Road they were at it - 50km stretch of road where which could easily handle 60/70km. nowhere for the van to park at the moment anyway. cycle lanes both directions alright but plenty of room for them and the passing cars (I cycle it regularly, never felt in any danger there) theres alot of worse stretches of road I cycle on with no lanes and much higher speeds

I can't post link to the gosafe page as I'm a new user but its on the Garda page

dunworth1

wheres da sun wrote:

new location - Condel Road from pedestrian lights at Russell Park to Tunnel Roundabout. you'd wonder why they didn't just continue the whole of the Condel Road they were at it - 50km stretch of road where which could easily handle 60/70km.

Well that's 100% a money grab spot anyway it's one of the roads with the best surface in limerick.

What i think is ridiculous is that your not going to have people walking across the condell road.

But if you look a the main road in Thomondgate people are often going 80 on that stretch of road with lots of people crossing day and night and I've never heard or seen a speed trap on the road.

It's like they look for the road where people speed just slightly over the limit and pick that rather than the road where people really speed on.

phog

dunworth1 wrote: »

Well that's 100% a money grab spot anyway it's one of the roads with the best surface in limerick.

What i think is ridiculous is that your not going to have people walking across the condell road.

But if you look a the main road in Thomondgate people are often going 80 on that stretch of road with lots of people crossing day and night and I've never heard or seen a speed trap on the road.

It's like they look for the road where people speed just slightly over the limit and pick that rather than the road where people really speed on.

I was walking out Condell Rd a few weeks back, a car coming into town was "undertaken" by a articulated truck. The car wasn't crawling.

50kph might well be too slow for that road but some of the stuff I've seen on it beggars belief.

bazz26

That stretch is 50kph because it's within the city boundary which is covered by the Council's bylaws here:

https://www.limerick.ie/sites/default/files/limerick_city_road_traffic_speed_limit_bye_laws_2014.pdf

phill106

bazz26 wrote: »

That stretch is 50kph because it's within the city boundary which is covered by the Council's bylaws here:

https://www.limerick.ie/sites/default/files/limerick_city_road_traffic_speed_limit_bye_laws_2014.pdf

Just because its there, doesn't mean its there for a good reason.
That road should be 80, was only lowered to try and get more people to use the tunnel.

wheres da sun

phill106 wrote: »

Just because its there, doesn't mean its there for a good reason.
That road should be 80, was only lowered to try and get more people to use the tunnel.

Thought that road was always 50, or at least a max of 60. Whatever about anything else u can blame on the tunnel, the limit there wasn't lowered for the tunnel

Berty

It was always 50 as the road was busy and was prone to rear end crashes in rush hour. It is NOT busy now and should be 60km. The only other option is 80km when is a little fast for a semi suburban road.

You/They can suggest any road you like but unless you can park a money machine van safely on a road then it won't be parked there and if they start digging up the green areas to place concrete/tarmac then I'll be one of the first to object to planning.

I was leaving Ennis yesterday and was on the LILO Junction at the Tulla Flyover and whilst joining the motorway I noticed they have a Speed Camera warning sign. It's an M road, there cannot be one on the road. Yet another stupid decision by somebody.

Cookiemunster

There's a review of all speed limits ongoing within the city and county. Submissions are being taken until May 27th.

All submissions should be forwarded in writing to the Senior
Executive Officer, Physical Development Directorate, Limerick
City & County Council Merchant’s Quay, Limerick or emailed
to mairead.corrigan@limerick.ie no later than 5 pm on May 27th
2016

bazz26

phill106 wrote: »

Just because its there, doesn't mean its there for a good reason.
That road should be 80, was only lowered to try and get more people to use the tunnel.

That stretch of road had a low speed limit well before the tunnel every existed. And anyway you still hit the bottleneck Dock Road which has the same speed limit out as far as the racecourse so increasing the speed limit on the Condell Road is hardly going to save you much time or fuel. But the reason whether we agree with it or not is because it's within the city boundary and current bylaws apply. The stretch from the Clonmacken roundabout to the Coonagh roundabout is in the county boundary hence why it has a slightly higher speed limit. Also imo 80kph is too high on that stretch, set it to 80kph and you will get dimwits doing 100kph on it which is just crazy given the amount of people who use it for walking, running, cycling and cross at Barrington's pier, the bird sanctuary, etc.

Anyway it would be interesting to see where they plan on parking a gosafe van legally on the 50kph stretch of road because between the bus and cycle lanes I don't seen any room or them to park up. I've seen the Garda Traffic Corp setup mobile speed traps on that road where they parked their car on the inbound cycle lane catching speeders.

Special Circumstances

bazz26 wrote: »

Anyway it would be interesting to see where they plan on parking a gosafe van legally on the 50kph stretch of road ...

.... I've seen the Garda Traffic Corp setup mobile speed traps on that road where they parked their car on the inbound cycle lane catching speeders.

Lol.

manna452121

wheres da sun wrote: »

new location - Condel Road from pedestrian lights at Russell Park to Tunnel Roundabout. you'd wonder why they didn't just continue the whole of the Condel Road they were at it - 50km stretch of road where which could easily handle 60/70km. nowhere for the van to park at the moment anyway. cycle lanes both directions alright but plenty of room for them and the passing cars (I cycle it regularly, never felt in any danger there) theres alot of worse stretches of road I cycle on with no lanes and much higher speeds

I can't post link to the gosafe page as I'm a new user but its on the Garda page

Some time back planning was approved for houses and a new roundabout at that location,plans are also for new social housing in the same area.I wonder what will come first, a speed van or houses?

phog

bazz26 wrote: »

That stretch of road had a low speed limit well before the tunnel every existed. And anyway you still hit the bottleneck Dock Road which has the same speed limit out as far as the racecourse so increasing the speed limit on the Condell Road is hardly going to save you much time or fuel. But the reason whether we agree with it or not is because it's within the city boundary and current bylaws apply. The stretch from the Clonmacken roundabout to the Coonagh roundabout is in the county boundary hence why it has a slightly higher speed limit. Also imo 80kph is too high on that stretch, set it to 80kph and you will get dimwits doing 100kph on it which is just crazy given the amount of people who use it for walking, running, cycling and cross at Barrington's pier, the bird sanctuary, etc.

Anyway it would be interesting to see where they plan on parking a gosafe van legally on the 50kph stretch of road because between the bus and cycle lanes I don't seen any room or them to park up. I've seen the Garda Traffic Corp setup mobile speed traps on that road where they parked their car on the inbound cycle lane catching speeders.

I assume they'll create a parking bay for the vans on both sides of the road.

Special Circumstances

phog wrote: »

I assume they'll create a parking bay for the vans on both sides of the road.

I hope they build the poor operators a toilet too. Tis alright to going in the bushes and using dock leaves when you're out in the shticks, but they should strive for better within the city limits.

phill106

Berty wrote: »

It was always 50 as the road was busy and was prone to rear end crashes in rush hour. It is NOT busy now and should be 60km. The only other option is 80km when is a little fast for a semi suburban road.

You/They can suggest any road you like but unless you can park a money machine van safely on a road then it won't be parked there and if they start digging up the green areas to place concrete/tarmac then I'll be one of the first to object to planning.

I was leaving Ennis yesterday and was on the LILO Junction at the Tulla Flyover and whilst joining the motorway I noticed they have a Speed Camera warning sign. It's an M road, there cannot be one on the road. Yet another stupid decision by somebody.

Was it always 50? i seem to recall it was higher, which seems to be backed up by this post from 2010.
http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=67434183&postcount=78
Granted its not an official document or anything

although this newspaper also shows it had been 60 kph
http://www.limerickpost.ie/2013/07/18/council-to-tackle-coonagh-death-trap/
though doesnt do my suggestion that the limit be increased any favours!

Jofspring

Definitey no where for them to park the van. They seem to be justifying it by saying there have been a lot of crashes on the stretch recently. From what I have seen driving that road every day is there have been two crashes in the last 3 months. I reckon they have been waiting for their chance to pounce. Also I'd love to know the cause of the accidents they are using to justify the speed van as most the time I see bad driving on that road it's due to people being frustrated by the low speed limit and they try overtake or undertake. I don't think cars speeding has been the problem. No fatalities there in recent times from memory.

60km would be enough to be honest. No too slow but not too fast either.

One of my main gripes is that the bus lane is used as a speeding lane by buses and taxis which is extremely dangerous considering cyclists use the lane as well. They seem to think that using it justifies undertaking at 80-90km an hour. That's who they really need to be catching.

jbkenn

bazz26 wrote: »

The stretch from the Clonmacken roundabout to the Coonagh roundabout is in the county boundary hence why it has a slightly higher speed limit.

Not correct, all that area is now within the city boundary

moleyv

phill106 wrote:

Was it always 50? i seem to recall it was higher, which seems to be backed up by this post from 2010.

It was 60 about 5+ years ago. I used to travel it daily then. It can feel dangerous doing 50 at times. Undertaking is commonplace.

manna452121

Any reason why the Garda list is like this http://www.garda.ie/Documents/User/355%20New%20Safety%20Camera%20Locations.pdf could they just give the road number or name.

source

manna452121 wrote: »

Any reason why the Garda list is like this http://www.garda.ie/Documents/User/355%20New%20Safety%20Camera%20Locations.pdf could they just give the road number or name.

Not really, there are specific enforcement zones along certain roads. Stating the road name or number wouldn't show the enforcement zones without a lengthy explanation that only locals would understand.

Coordinates let anyone with internet access, a GPS or a decent map find out exactly where the zone starts and finishes. Also it allows mapping companies and GPS companies accurately update their systems with the locations.

marno21

Berty wrote: »

It was always 50 as the road was busy and was prone to rear end crashes in rush hour. It is NOT busy now and should be 60km. The only other option is 80km when is a little fast for a semi suburban road.

You/They can suggest any road you like but unless you can park a money machine van safely on a road then it won't be parked there and if they start digging up the green areas to place concrete/tarmac then I'll be one of the first to object to planning.

I was leaving Ennis yesterday and was on the LILO Junction at the Tulla Flyover and whilst joining the motorway I noticed they have a Speed Camera warning sign. It's an M road, there cannot be one on the road. Yet another stupid decision by somebody.

Several of the new zones are on motorways, there's even one on the M50 between the Lucan exit and the Red Cow.

There's also a new zone on the N18 between the Shannon junction (end of the motorway) and the LILOs south of Shannon. A road built to motorway standards, just at the end of a motorway. Definately got safety in mind there.

manna452121

At the bird sanctuary on the condell road last night 23:45 I passed two people/Garda with a hand held speed meter.I was over the speed limit but was not stopped.I rang Henry st and was told not to worry since I was not stopped.Anyone else come across this?

jimgoose

manna452121 wrote: »

At the bird sanctuary on the condell road last night 23:45 I passed two people/Garda with a hand held speed meter.I was over the speed limit but was not stopped.I rang Henry st and was told not to worry since I was not stopped.Anyone else come across this?

Unlike a speed-van or fixed speed monitoring station, those hand-helds cannot photograph you. Therefore there is no basis for a prosecution unless the officer pulls you over.

manna452121

Just sent an email http://www.limerick.ie/sites/default/files/atoms/files/review_of_all_speed_limits_in_limerick.pdf .I wonder as to what the answer will be?

Insect Overlord

The road from Adare to Newcastle West is being monitored very closely this week! :eek: Vans outside both Adare and Rathkeale this morning, and again near Rathkeale this afternoon. Everybody afraid to drive faster than 75 km/h. :rolleyes: One wouldn't want to be driving to meet a deadline on that route.

manna452121

This could be reason http://www.garda.ie/Controller.aspx?Page=18225

phog

manna452121 wrote: »

Just sent an email http://www.limerick.ie/sites/default/files/atoms/files/review_of_all_speed_limits_in_limerick.pdf .I wonder as to what the answer will be?

I doubt each submission will get an individual reply nor can all be implemented. Some folk will be happy their submission was taken on board while others will probably be disappointed that theirs was "ignored".

Cookiemunster

A list of the new locations from the Limerick Post. R518 joining N21 and N69

R513 through Herbertstown

R513 through Hospital

N24 at junction R505 near Ballyart

R505 between Cappamore and Doon

R526 from the Crescent Shopping Centre to the South Court Hotel roundabout

R511 near Roxboro Road Garda Station

R527 Condell Road outbound from Shannon Bridge

R522 between Dromcolliher and Feohanagh

R515 between Harnetts Cross on N21 and Gortnagross

R517 on Mitchelstown Road before the Limerick Cork border

marno21

Condell Road. Pure revenue generation if ever I've seen it.

panda100

There appears to be a speed camera on the Dock Road every second day now. Seems to be a pure money racket there too. It's hardly a dangerous stretch of road.

LimerickCity

There was a guy killed on the Condell Road a few years ago. Had their been a speed detection van on the road then someone's brother, father or son could still be alive. Speak to that man's surviving family members and see how they feel.

The zones are made public for a reason, to save lives.

We all know where these speed zones are so nobody should ever get caught speeding.

Pretty simple.

As a person who has lost a loved one to a fatal accident I cannot for the life of me understand the money making argument with these go safe vans.

We all know where the zones are.

Slow down and stick to the speed limit.

Mc Love

The money making racket argument is when they are straight roads or around a bend or in a place where the speed limit drops from 100 to 60 etc "shooting fish in a barrel"

LimerickCity

Mc Love wrote: »

The money making racket argument is when they are straight roads or around a bend or in a place where the speed limit drops from 100 to 60 etc "shooting fish in a barrel"

.

LimerickCity

They can only operate in so called zones. Accident black spots All advertised zones. Be they around a corner, on a straight road or when the speed limit drops, my argument stands. We all know where the zones are. Stick to the speed limit and you have nothing to worry about. If people did that the vans would not generate a cent. The Gardai show zero tolerance on speeding or dangerous driving and rightly so. Too many people dying on our roads.

phill106

LimerickCity wrote: »

There was a guy killed on the Condell Road a few years ago. Had their been a speed detection van on the road then someone's brother, father or son could still be alive. Speak to that man's surviving family members and see how they feel.

The zones are made public for a reason, to save lives.

We all know where these speed zones are so nobody should ever get caught speeding.

Pretty simple.

As a person who has lost a loved one to a fatal accident I cannot for the life of me understand the money making argument with these go safe vans.

We all know where the zones are.

Slow down and stick to the speed limit.

While speed can be a contributing factor, do you know for a certainty that speed was a factor in that crash?
Could just as easy be bad overtaking?

LimerickCity

There is a continuous white line the length of the Condell Road so you cannot overtake however if it was bad overtaking then the presence of a go safe van would most likely have prevented this as people flash lights and the general behaviour of drivers immediately improves.

All of the go safe vans operate on road where people have been killed or seriously injured.

Speak to any member of the emergency services who has had to attend the scene of a fatal accident.

Speed kills.

Slow down.

hobie14

Coming into town from Setrights you will often see a Van, just before the road splits for the Shannon Tunnel ...... the fast guys all slow down as they approach the Van parking area and as soon as they pass it they floor it!!!! ..... :rolleyes:

Cookiemunster

phill106 wrote: »

While speed can be a contributing factor, do you know for a certainty that speed was a factor in that crash?
Could just as easy be bad overtaking?

I'm pretty sure that crash had nothing to do with speed. IIRC an artic driver fell ill and swerved across the road into a car, killing the driver. http://www.independent.ie/breaking-news/irish-news/man-dies-following-limerick-road-crash-26553753.html

Cookiemunster

LimerickCity wrote: »

There is a continuous white line the length of the Condell Road so you cannot overtake however if it was bad overtaking then the presence of a go safe van would most likely have prevented this as people flash lights and the general behaviour of drivers immediately improves.

All of the go safe vans operate on road where people have been killed or seriously injured.

Speak to any member of the emergency services who has had to attend the scene of a fatal accident.

Speed kills.

Slow down.

There's a camera stationed inbound on the Condell Rd on the 60km section. There's never been a fatal accident there.
I've been driving to Shannon for 20 years. I've never seen a fatal accident on the dual carriage way before the new junction. There have been a few fatal accidents a few kms back at Setrights, but I've never seen the van before Setrights.
There is no justification for a speed camera where it is stationed on the dual carriageway. It's a money racket.

LimerickCity

A collision between and arctic and the deceased car. I remember the day it happened.

My reference to the speed van is that driver behaviour improves immediately when they are made aware that they are in the vicinity.

LimerickCity

Cookiemunster wrote: »

LimerickCity wrote: »

There is a continuous white line the length of the Condell Road so you cannot overtake however if it was bad overtaking then the presence of a go safe van would most likely have prevented this as people flash lights and the general behaviour of drivers immediately improves.

All of the go safe vans operate on road where people have been killed or seriously injured.

Speak to any member of the emergency services who has had to attend the scene of a fatal accident.

Speed kills.

Slow down.

There's a camera stationed inbound on the Condell Rd on the 60km section. There's never been a fatal accident there.
I've been driving to Shannon for 20 years. I've never seen a fatal accident on the dual carriage way before the new junction. There have been a few fatal accidents a few kms back at Setrights, but I've never seen the van before Setrights.
There is no justification for a speed camera where it is stationed on the dual carriageway. It's a money racket.

The justification is to prevent people breaking the law by speeding.
If people drive within the speed limit there is no money to be made only lives to be saved.

Cookiemunster

LimerickCity wrote: »

A collision between and arctic and the deceased car. I remember the day it happened.

My reference to the speed van is that driver behaviour improves immediately when they are made aware that they are in the vicinity.

Driver behaviour had nothing to do with that accident so a speed van would have made no difference.

LimerickCity wrote: »

If people drive within the speed limit there is no money to be made only lives to be saved.

On a dual carriageway the speed limit 100km. If you hit someone at that speed you will kill them. At the current speed trap on the Condell Road the speed limit is 60km. You can kill someone if you hit them at 60kmph. Driving withing the speed limit does not mean that lives will be saved.

It's way too simplistic to say that speed kills. There are many reasons for fatal crashes such as bad driving, bad roads, conditions and speed.

Some roads are 80kmph when they should be nowhere near that, but you'll see no vans on them because it's too dangerous to put them there. Some roads have ridicously low speeds limits, but are guaranteed to have vans on them.

Special Circumstances

LimerickCity wrote: »

A collision between and arctic and the deceased car. I remember the day it happened.

My reference to the speed van is that driver behaviour improves immediately when they are made aware that they are in the vicinity.

That had nothing to do with speed, unless you define inappropriate speed to be anything above walking or cycling speed? Maybe you want everyone to drive with a manservant walking ahead of them with a flag or a lamp. Ban trucks maybe?

You can never remove all accidents from the roads. Using that accident to justify a speed van there is like using a fatality due to someone driving the wrong way on a motorway as justification for one. It undermines the credibility of the system completely.

Mc Love

Driver behaviour doesnt improve at all. Some of the speed limits on the roads are ridiculous too. 60 zones on roads that should be 80 etc.

phill106

i've been driving from shannon to limerick for 20 years, dont recall any fatal crash at ballymorris. Well except for a cow. I'm not sure how fast the cow was moving though, so speed could have been a factor.
One is permanently parked by castlecabin on the dublin road coming into the national technological park, dont recall any crashes there, although i do remember one by the kilmurray roundabout.

Mc Love

phill106 wrote: »

i've been driving from shannon to limerick for 20 years, dont recall any fatal crash at ballymorris. Well except for a cow. I'm not sure how fast the cow was moving though, so speed could have been a factor.
One is permanently parked by castlecabin on the dublin road coming into the national technological park, dont recall any crashes there, although i do remember one by the kilmurray roundabout.

Exactly but as our LimerickCity says if you are doing the speed limit you wont get caught. But thats a prime spot for the cash van

phill106

Mc Love wrote: »

Exactly but as our LimerickCity says if you are doing the speed limit you wont get caught. But thats a prime spot for the cash van

I dont dispute that, i passed them today with no issue. My issue is the false reasoning that they are putting it where fatal accidents have occured.

LimerickCity

Let me clear things up lads.

The go safe vans are located in areas that have had fatal or or serious accidents.

I totally understand what you are saying with respect to where they are positioned, driver behaviour, speed limits on excellent road surfaces etc.

In fact i had the very same opinion up until a few years ago when i rang the Gardai at Henry Street to complain about the go safe van outside the post office on the Dock Road.

A high ranking member of the traffic division called me back a few days later and spent almost 45 minutes on the phone educating me in the ways of the road, why the need for go safe vans and what it was like to experience a scene of a fatal crash involving kids, men, women et al.

Basically what it boils down to is if you obey the speed limit then you have nothing to worry about. How can the go safe vans be out to catch people when they are located in areas that we are all made aware of.

No matter what argument i put forward his answer was the same "obey the speed limit and you have nothing to worry about".

This member of the Gardai didn't have to waste his time calling me to discuss this matter but he did, it is something that he takes extremely seriously and the conversation changed my opinion entirely.

marno21

Special Circumstances wrote: »

That had nothing to do with speed, unless you define inappropriate speed to be anything above walking or cycling speed? Maybe you want everyone to drive with a manservant walking ahead of them with a flag or a lamp. Ban trucks maybe?

You can never remove all accidents from the roads. Using that accident to justify a speed van there is like using a fatality due to someone driving the wrong way on a motorway as justification for one. It undermines the credibility of the system completely.

Believe it or not, one of the new zones on the M18 is in a region where there's been one fatal accident, caused by an elderly person driving the wrong way down the dual carriageway after being confused by the compact grade separated junction layout.

LimerickCity

phill106 wrote: »

Mc Love wrote: »

Exactly but as our LimerickCity says if you are doing the speed limit you wont get caught. But thats a prime spot for the cash van

I dont dispute that, i passed them today with no issue. My issue is the false reasoning that they are putting it where fatal accidents have occured.

Fatal and serious incidents.

LimerickCity

How will people know where the cameras will be?

GoSafe will only operate on sections of road which have a history of collisions occurring where speed was a contributory factor. The areas where the cameras are operating are available on this Garda website www.garda.ie.

Is this a revenue-generating exercise?

No. The key objective of the project is to reduce the number of speed related collisions and therefore save lives. GoSafe will be paid on the basis of enforcement hours and survey hours conducted. The hourly rates to be paid are not linked in any way to the number of detections made.

What if I believe the speed limit on a road is inappropriate?

Setting speed limits is the statutory function of the local authorities. As part of this project, speed surveys are carried out in all speed enforcement zones. An Garda S och na, the National Roads Authority and local authorities will work together to determine the appropriateness of speed limits within zones.