Season 6 Episode 5 "The Door" - Speculation thread

Nody

See topic; please spoiler anything from interviews, books etc.

Thread will be unlocked on Sunday evening.

PIORUN

just saw the trailer for this...holy christ , the Bran scene!!!!!

klose

From the trailer:

Looks like bran very much can interact with what's happening when he worgs, although I'm guessing he is worging into another place in real time as opposed to looking into the past ala tower of joy scene.

Niska

Here's the preview:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mQ5QtQ59Nc8

So we have

1. Little finger / Sansa
2. Arya's new assassination
3. Kingsmoot
4. New red lady
5. Bran and the army of the dead.

Speculation / Queries:
Is Bran seeing he army outside the cave - live, or is he seeing an image from the past? (Probably live)
Can the Night's King see him? (I'm guessing yes)

The kingsmoot fleet looks good. Probably going to replace the burnt fleet in Meereen

Daith

Love the

almost "Who the **** are you boy" face the Night King has with Bran. I wonder if they're captured or if there's another way out of the cave

Degag

Bran is walking so I imagine it's not "live"

Owryan

Surely the opportunity won't be passed up to see Tormund trying to woo Brienne. The dinner scene was class.

J. Marston

Owryan wrote: »

Surely the opportunity won't be passed up to see Tormund trying to woo Brienne. The dinner scene was class.

Ignore the most boring couple in Westeros, Sam and Gilly and the most boring couple in Essos/the World, Grey Worm and Missandei and spend that time on Tormund/Brienne.

duploelabs

Very interesting theory I saw on Reddit behind what the High Sparrow told Tommen

It's my belief that the High Sparrow told Tommen about the Tyrells' involvement in Joffrey's murder. Judging by the tears in his eyes when he's about to tell Cersei, it seemed to be the worst possible news. I believe it's Ser Loras who revealed this information as he seemed absolutely broken by his solitary confinement.
Immediately after Tommen tells her the news, Cersei and Jaime show up to the small council with a plan to invite the Tyrell army into King's Landing to deal with the Seven and protect Margaery from a talk of atonement. I believe this is a ruse by Cersei to draw the Tyrells into her scheme.
Why would Cersei do this? It accomplishes multiple things and is quite an ingenious move but may backfire terribly if the Tyrells are ready for it.
The Tyrells picking a fight with the Seven will create unrest among its followers/citizens of King's Landing. They will turn on and blame the Tyrells with the Lannisters "standing down." This creates a war between two of Cersei's least favorite factions: the citizens of King's Landing who treated her like garbage during her walk of atonement, and the family responsible for her son's murder. Every dead body is a win.
The Lannister army is now in perfect position to finish off the Tyrells and enact revenge for their fallen king. The dissolution of the Seven and the deaths of Loras, Margaery, Lady Olenna, and the High Sparrow would be the sprinkles on top of Cersei's revenge sundae.
This could all backfire, however, if the Tyrell army is allowed inside the walls of King's Landing, ready themselves to overtake the Lannister army, and claim the Iron Throne for themselves.
I didn't see anyone mention this theory anywhere, but it immediately came to mind after that small council scene. Will be curious to see this play out.
Edit to add: I think there are a few interesting additional tidbits, and this could solely be my confirmation bias speaking and reading too much between the lines, but it's interesting nonetheless.
1) During the conversation between the High Sparrow and Margaery about his past, he mentions a feast, drinking wine, sleeping bodies on the floor, and the endless struggle to maintain his position. Some interesting symbolism at play here.
2) When Tommen speaks with Cersei, she says that "Margaery's safety is paramount" and he immediately asks her "You don't like Margaery, do you?" almost in a way that implies "You were right about her." Then Cersei mentions that queens and kings demand respect and the High Sparrow doesn't respect them. Immediately after this is when Tommen says that he has to tell her a secret the High Sparrow told him. I read this in a way that Tommen's about to prove her wrong about the High Sparrow. Joffrey was king and the High Sparrow has gotten to the bottom of the true killer's identity. "See, ma? He does care about kings and queens!" The High Sparrow seems to be manipulating Tommen, and this information is the trump card that will keep him in Tommen's (and hopefully Cersei's) good graces.
3) During the small council scene, Jaime says "The King has been talking regularly to the High Sparrow about the queen and Ser Loras." It doesn't seem as if Tommen would be bothered by a walk of atonement from this comment. Almost like the High Sparrow has flipped Tommen to his side against his wife and brother-in-law.
4) Also during the small council scene, notice the look on Cersei's face when Lady Olenna mentions "Many will die no matter what we do. Better them than us." Cut to: smug satisfaction on Cersei's face as if to say "I hope there's many deaths, and you'll be one of them." And as someone else has pointed out, Rains of Castamere is playing in the background.
5) As /u/spurs-r-us points out, when Tommen is about to tell Cersei the secret, she holds her hand to his heart and Joffrey's ring is showing dead center in frame.

Hans Bricks

duploelabs wrote: »

Very interesting theory I saw on Reddit behind what the High Sparrow told Tommen

1) During the conversation between the High Sparrow and Margaery about his past, he mentions a feast, drinking wine, sleeping bodies on the floor, and the endless struggle to maintain his position. Some interesting symbolism at play here.

If this isn't spelling out the outcome of the showdown between the Faith Militant and Royal Houses in King's Landing this season :pac: .......

Feast = A Feast For Crows
Wine - Blood
Sleeping bodies on the floor - Corpses
Maintain position - Political power in King's Landing

intheclouds

I can't see why Tommen would be so upset if that's what the High Sparrow told him. It was to his advantage and he didn't like Joffrey anyway.

wp_rathead

I thought that Tommens news was simply that

Margeary was to do a Walk of Atonement like Cersei did...

As much as I like the theory, I think Reddit is being Reddit and going too far up it's own ass :pac:

The Randy Riverbeast

Seeing as little finger is heading north, or the army is at least, we should see Walder Frey soon as they have to go through there to get to winterfell

PTH2009

where are the tullys in all this ???

J. Marston

PTH2009 wrote: »

where are the tullys in all this ???

Last we heard, Edmure was the Frey's prisoner and the Blackfish went missing after the Red Wedding.

Daith

I do think

We will see the Tyrell's join the faith. The Crown and Faith together like before. Margaery will do this in order to get Loras back to Highgarden.

Pepe LeFrits

Interesting theory. It's kind of worrying though; it is going to be so ridiculous if Cersei manages to outwit and destroy the Tyrells. Lady Olenna is ten times sharper than Cersei. She knows Cersei too well to be caught out by such an obvious double cross (oh, just the Tyrell army to enter King's Landing, not the Lannister army too? Oh, ok Cersei, cool!).

intheclouds

Pepe LeFrits wrote: »

Interesting theory. It's kind of worrying though; it is going to be so ridiculous if Cersei manages to outwit and destroy the Tyrells. Lady Olenna is ten times sharper than Cersei. She knows Cersei too well to be caught out by such an obvious double cross (oh, just the Tyrell army to enter King's Landing, not the Lannister army too? Oh, ok Cersei, cool!).

The theory just doesnt make any sense.

Tommen is mad about Maergary - he isnt going to willingly go along with anything that endangers her or her family.

BoJack Horseman

So, Arya's assasination mission:

We all know that she will be sent to kill Jon Snow, right?
The many faced God will be displeased that someone escaped death & will want to correct that.

Hence Jaqen's line

intheclouds

BoJack Horseman wrote: »

Hence Jaqen's line

What line?

weemcd

I must say I've had a dark thought, almost a guilty pleasure.

But say when all this is over, and say Margaery gets out, I would absolutely love to see Margaery tear Tommen to shreds for not protecting her and not getting her out. He is completely in love with her and she sees him as nothing more than a toy and a means to an end. If done right it could be a fantastic scene. Go on, break his little heart.

I think we will see a new Margaery by the time this is all over.

BoJack Horseman

intheclouds wrote: »

What line?

"does death only come for the wicked and leave decent people behind?"

Seemingly Arya is not going to be just mopping up bad-guys..... good people too.

Whether she will receive her mission

to kill Jon Snow

sooner or later, I don't know... but receive that mission, I think she will.

intheclouds

BoJack Horseman wrote: »

"does death only come for the wicked and leave decent people behind?"

Seemingly Arya is not going to be just mopping up bad-guys..... good people too.

Whether she will receive her mission

to kill Jon Snow

sooner or later, I don't know... but receive that mission, I think she will.

Interesting theory but as I dont believe she believes she is No One, I doubt she would do that.

She is still Arya Stark. She is just pretending to be No One to learn how to be a faceless man.

BoJack Horseman

intheclouds wrote: »

She is still Arya Stark. She is just pretending to be No One to learn how to be a faceless man.

I agree.... and being wildly speculative, I think the shot of Jaqa handing a phila of poison is significant.
If Arya

get's her 'kill the snow' mission.. she will travel to Westeros, meet her people again but be unable to follow through & using same poison, take her own life to avoid the many-faced God's wrath.... and so will pass little Arya

Sleepy

Needle buried outside the House of Black and White is a major Chekov's gun imo. It's the object that ensures Arya never truly becomes no-one.

I can't see the Faceless Men going after Jon. Melisandre has proclaimed him the "Prince Who Was Promised" and, given how interlinked the dialogue of The Red Priests and The Faceless Men are, I suspect there are ties between the two movements: i.e. they're servants of R'hllor.

J. Marston

The Faceless Men are hired assassins. The Iron Bank backed Stannis but it was Davos who convinced them. Stannis is dead so I think the Iron Bank will hire the Faceless Men to kill Davos as punishment for taking on and being unable to pay Stannis' debt.

I think that's what will bring Arya to the North.

intheclouds

Sleepy wrote: »

Needle buried outside the House of Black and White is a major Chekov's gun imo. It's the object that ensures Arya never truly becomes no-one.

Yeah as long as she owns Needle she is Arya.

She is only learning Faceless Man techniques and philosophy to facilitate her need to murder everyone on her list.

BoJack Horseman

Because we see Sansa confronting Little Finger in the preview, we can assume that the Knights of the Vale have marched north and Jon's forces have marched south...
(This would have taken weeks as the distances are vast, 400-500 miles for Jon + Wildlings & near double that for Little Finger.... but the power of TV doesn't require it).

I wonder will we see the battle for Winterfell next week or if that is being kept for the 'big' episode 8-9 later?

podgemonster

BoJack Horseman wrote: »

Because we see Sansa confronting Little Finger in the preview, we can assume that the Knights of the Vale have marched north and Jon's forces have marched south...
(This would have taken weeks as the distances are vast, 400-500 miles for Jon + Wildlings & near double that for Little Finger.... but the power of TV doesn't require it).

I wonder will we see the battle for Winterfell next week or if that is being kept for the 'big' episode 8-9 later?

LF could have taken a boat up to Greywatch by the Sea.

Daith

Yeah I think LF went on ahead.

Besides he probably wouldn't want Sansa and the Vale interacting yet. Needs to scope out the situation first.

bnt

Winter Is Coming reports on what may be an accidental spoiler from HBO in the Ep. 4 "behind the scenes" video.

When they interview Natalie Dormer, she's dressed in Septa's robes, which suggests that Margaery will not just confess, she will convert to the Faith of the Seven. Whether this conversion is genuine or a ploy is TBD: I would tend to assume a ploy, but I'm wary of assuming that. Locked up as she is, she will have heard nothing of the latest developments between the Tyrells and Lannisters, as alluded to above e.g. the possibility that Tommen now knows of Tyrell involvement in Joffrey's assassination.

Bacchus

intheclouds wrote: »

Interesting theory but as I dont believe she believes she is No One, I doubt she would do that.

She is still Arya Stark. She is just pretending to be No One to learn how to be a faceless man.

intheclouds wrote: »

Yeah as long as she owns Needle she is Arya.

She is only learning Faceless Man techniques and philosophy to facilitate her need to murder everyone on her list.

I thought though that the faces were poison to those who were "someone". Therefore, she is truly no-one. How could she possibly pull that trick?

tricky D

Could the Sparrow be in league with the Tyrells?? They've already knocked off Joffery and there's a certain scheming look in Olenna's eyes at the meeting ep4 @ 39:57 in.

wp_rathead

tricky D wrote: »

Could the Sparrow be in league with the Tyrells?? They've already knocked off Joffery and there's a certain scheming look in Olenna's eyes at the meeting ep4 @ 39:57 in.

Dunno, Loras looks fairly beaten up by the Faith

intheclouds

Bacchus wrote: »

I thought though that the faces were poison to those who were "someone". Therefore, she is truly no-one. How could she possibly pull that trick?

You mean you can only use the faces if you are truly no one? Then how did she use the face when she killed Meryn Trant?

EagererBeaver

Episode has leaked online.

stesaurus

EagererBeaver wrote: »

Episode has leaked online.

Think I'll watch it this evening, spoilers will be everywhere soon enough anyway.

EagererBeaver

s.welstead wrote: »

Think I'll watch it this evening, spoilers will be everywhere soon enough anyway.

I went with that rationale too. I saw 1080p copy. Absolutely perfect.

Temptamperu

This episode is the tits!

amos13

EagererBeaver wrote:

Episode has leaked online.

HBO Nordic themselves accidentally uploaded it apparently. Idiots. Since it's not technically pirated and a release by the company, even if it is accidental, does that mean anyone can watch it legally now?

intheclouds

Lovely. A relaxed watch later as opposed to a dash home from work tomorrow.

Washington Irving

amos13 wrote: »

HBO Nordic themselves accidentally uploaded it apparently. Idiots. Since it's not technically pirated and a release by the company, even if it is accidental, does that mean anyone can watch it legally now?

I imagine it was taken down very swiftly so, apart from the few who were lucky enough to happen onto the HBO Nordic site while it was still up, there's no legal way to watch it for everyone else.

Best get watching now or stay off the internet folks.

I already had this ruined for me

bnt

I'm basically watching it ASAP, this series, to avoid the spoilers. I follow the RSS feeds of several GoT sites that discuss episodes, which they can't do without spoilers. This episode contains something that is really (IMHO) best experienced un-spoilered.

Falthyron

Jaysus... Jaysus.

aunt aggie

Any chance of the discussion threads opening early because of the leak?? I watched it, and I have no one to talk to about all the feels...

The Randy Riverbeast

Time to disconnect the internet then

Lucas Hood

aunt aggie wrote: »

Any chance of the discussion threads opening early because of the leak?? I watched it, and I have no one to talk to about all the feels...

This. Great episode.

intheclouds

aunt aggie wrote: »

Any chance of the discussion threads opening early because of the leak?? I watched it, and I have no one to talk to about all the feels...

+1

Amazing episode.

Best so far this season.

Nody

aunt aggie wrote: »

Any chance of the discussion threads opening early because of the leak?? I watched it, and I have no one to talk to about all the feels...

Opened the threads (they were due to be opened this evening anyway )

one man clappin

OMFG is all i can say.