Money saving tips

kevthegaff

Well lads what ye planning to do this year to keep a few bob in the pocket
Set up gravity flow for high paddocks to reduce electricity
Considering a cut of hay
Listening to Butford, detergent for 3 washes
Fix and maintain machinery again:-(
Meal down to less than 2kg reduce more if possible with tetany

browned

No evening milkings so
all milk cooled on night rate. Water is all gravity fed.
Less detergent, less teat spray,
Change liners once per year.
Less meal being fed. Using pke/hulls when needed
Will self feed silage this winter instead of bales. Less diesel and cheaper to make
Sowing clover across the whole farm so should reduce N in the autumn.
All AA/HE a.i. Cheaper straws. No stock Bulls. No scanning or vet treatments.
No reseeding being done, money being spend on lime instead
Trading relief milkings with a neighbour.
Looking into using river stones as recyclable needing for calves going forward and creating a loafing pad for cows near calving for the daytime to save on straw.

kevthegaff

browned wrote: »

No evening milkings so
all milk cooled on night rate. Water is all gravity fed.
Less detergent, less teat spray,
Change liners once per year.
Less meal being fed. Using pke/hulls when needed
Will self feed silage this winter instead of bales. Less diesel and cheaper to make
Sowing clover across the whole farm so should reduce N in the autumn.
All AA/HE a.i. Cheaper straws. No stock Bulls. No scanning or vet treatments.
No reseeding being done, money being spend on lime instead
Trading relief milkings with a neighbour.
Looking into using river stones as recyclable needing for calves going forward and creating a loafing pad for cows near calving for the daytime to save on straw.

Michael o leary!! What ye mean by rivers tones?

bullnuts

browned wrote: »

No evening milkings so
all milk cooled on night rate. Water is all gravity fed.
Less detergent, less teat spray,
Change liners once per year.
Less meal being fed. Using pke/hulls when needed
Will self feed silage this winter instead of bales. Less diesel and cheaper to make
Sowing clover across the whole farm so should reduce N in the autumn.
All AA/HE a.i. Cheaper straws. No stock Bulls. No scanning or vet treatments.
No reseeding being done, money being spend on lime instead
Trading relief milkings with a neighbour.
Looking into using river stones as recyclable needing for calves going forward and creating a loafing pad for cows near calving for the daytime to save on straw.

Self feed silage interesting ! How will you set up for this ? I remember there being a lot of silage waste !but also remember reading an article about nz dairy going for this ! Feeding a 1000 cows in two minutes moving a wire

patsy_mccabe

You could be a bit more scientific and actually work out a % return on all the big spends. Reduce or eliminate the lower return ones then.
Fertiliser AI etc at the top maybe and then fancy machinery at the bottom.

whelan2

Not growing wholecrop/maize this year, reckon it can be bought in cheaper.

browned

kevthegaff wrote: »

Michael o leary!! What ye mean by rivers tones?

Don't have the litres to dilute cost in oad so have to eliminate them. Similar to you am going flying herd so all calves gone after 2 weeks. Need to clean up a few rivers as theyre flooding parts of farm so the river gravel will be used as a bedding for calves. They've trial it sucessfully in nz. Can wash it and disinfect between groups of calves.

jaymla627

whelan2 wrote: »

Not growing wholecrop/maize this year, reckon it can be bought in cheaper.

With barley/soya hulls/beet pulp/maize meal all nearly our below 180 a ton and looking like getting cheaper they are a million times better value then maize/whole crop brought in

whelan2

jaymla627 wrote: »

With barley/soya hulls/beet pulp/maize meal all nearly our below 180 a ton and looking like getting cheaper they are a million times better value then maize/whole crop brought in

ye, I havent ordered the maize in yet so my options are open, anything would be cheaper than growing it myself

browned

bullnuts wrote: »

Self feed silage interesting ! How will you set up for this ? I remember there being a lot of silage waste !but also remember reading an article about nz dairy going for this ! Feeding a 1000 cows in two minutes moving a wire

Have an old idle silage pit that has an 90 foot length. Will mix straw and first cut in the pit. Won't go higher that 5 foot in height tho. If they're keep tight Id say there won't be too much waste. Have a soiled water wash down system in the yard so can hose down the yard daily if needed

jaymla627

kevthegaff wrote: »

Well lads what ye planning to do this year to keep a few bob in the pocket
Set up gravity flow for high paddocks to reduce electricity
Considering a cut of hay
Listening to Butford, detergent for 3 washes
Fix and maintain machinery again:-(
Meal down to less than 2kg reduce more if possible with tetany

Wouldn't be skimping on water supply to cows, only got around to putting in a proper water system here last year and definetley gained 4-5 litres a cow in yield during peak months, it's probably the cheapest/best money you'll spend having good high pressue water system, doubt gravity flow will work good enough in the hour after milking when cows are drinking massive amounts of water

whelan2

jaymla627 wrote: »

Wouldn't be skimping on water supply to cows, only got around to putting in a proper water system here last year and definetley gained 4-5 litres a cow in yield during peak months, it's probably the cheapest/best money you'll spend having good high pressue water system, doubt gravity flow will work good enough in the hour after milking when cows are drinking massive amounts of water

Was amazed on here a few years ago that some lads have no drinker in the collecting yard, we have a massive one and its nearly always empty at the end of milking

jaymla627

whelan2 wrote: »

Was amazed on here a few years ago that some lads have no drinker in the collecting yard, we have a massive one and its nearly always empty at the end of milking

Cows have access to 3 drinkers in holding yard here, you'll always see one drinking away, it's the hour after milking that is crucial nearly 90% of the herd will go for water here and often 7-10 will go in a group, small troughs/poor flow are a disaster in a situation like that cost you alot of lost litres

orm0nd

whelan2 wrote: »

Was amazed on here a few years ago that some lads have no drinker in the collecting yard, we have a massive one and its nearly always empty at the end of milking

cows go into feed passage after milking here which has 2 small fast fill troughs,
bitches still dive on paddock troughs, only explanination I have is the water inside is straight from the well & much colder

boggerman1

Why would people eliminate scanning.its one of the most important things in my opinion.better off finding out in early to mid June how things are going than guessing

Dawggone

kevthegaff wrote: »

Michael o leary!! What ye mean by rivers tones?

Kev, you asked on another thread what I'd do if framing in Ireland...Browned just saved me the bother in post above.

I'd also add...get a part-time job.

whelan2

browned wrote: »

No evening milkings so
all milk cooled on night rate. Water is all gravity fed.
Less detergent, less teat spray,
Change liners once per year.
Less meal being fed. Using pke/hulls when needed
Will self feed silage this winter instead of bales. Less diesel and cheaper to make
Sowing clover across the whole farm so should reduce N in the autumn.
All AA/HE a.i. Cheaper straws. No stock Bulls. No scanning or vet treatments.
No reseeding being done, money being spend on lime instead
Trading relief milkings with a neighbour.
Looking into using river stones as recyclable needing for calves going forward and creating a loafing pad for cows near calving for the daytime to save on straw.

How much lower is your esb bill since you went on OAD?

Bullocks

orm0nd wrote: »

cows go into feed passage after milking here which has 2 small fast fill troughs,
bitches still dive on paddock troughs, only explanination I have is the water inside is straight from the well & much colder

Same here with a few fields that have a nice stream they can drink from but they still walk past it all the way back to the water trough in the field nearest the yard to drink from that instead . I thought they might prefer the water that's treated with fluoride or whatever they put in it

Milked out

Changed esb providers, biggest one is I joined a discussion group, good to refocus after a meeting and see what other lads are doing and doing it, or trying to, myself instead of saying it can't be done. trying to reduce meal where possible, by keeping on top.of grass. 2kg saved per cow is 15e a month that's 1500 for 100 cows. Have increased paddock size to help.do this. Using more of the straws left in the pot instead of buying in more than needed. Reduced milk recording. Sold culls and a have only one carryover milking. Delay capital expenditure. Spread lime and p and k instead of full reseeding. Will be targeting minimum amount needed for winter milk. More of November and December supply coming from spring herd so higher solids and better price, hopefully anyway. Dropped 19 acres rented 3/4 of an hour away. Put off hiring part time labour, this is debatable and probably not sustainable long term. Forgot to add find a laying hen...

blue5000

Not dairying, so N only going on first cut + slurry.
Ploughing in slurry for kale to feed weanlings.
Hay, weather permitting instead of wrapping strong grass.
One spray programme on the spring barley, again weather permitting.
Diy fencing and machinery maintenance/repairs.
Collect rainwater for paddocks near yard.

As patsy says try reduce % on the three biggies, contractor, meal and fert.

Miname

It's a dip lads not the end of the world you can cut corners but I'd be very selective about what corners to cut. Ai and a good herd takes years to build, it could all be deminished in one go. There are luxuries that can go but a lot are necessities and my first priority would be keep the herd and farm right. Lay off on machinery and capital expenditure but if everyone cuts on herd quality it will be hard to rebuild.

Sacrolyte

Bullocks wrote: »

Same here with a few fields that have a nice stream they can drink from but they still walk past it all the way back to the water trough in the field nearest the yard to drink from that instead . I thought they might prefer the water that's treated with fluoride or whatever they put in it

I switched from mains to well a few years ago and I'd swear the cows were up in milk on the well water. I put it down to coincidence but I got the same reaction when I switched over the water to well when they went in for winter.

cute geoge

What is all the bull about herd quality diminishing if you dont use a.i. this year .
The highest ebi herd in the country rarely has used a.i.

Bullocks

cute geoge wrote: »

What is all the bull about herd quality diminishing if you dont use a.i. this year .
The highest ebi herd in the country rarely has used a.i.

I don't know about dairy but there are so many sucklers breeding pedigrees that there are great stock bulls to be bought every bit as good as ai

Markcheese

To be fair, if you've enough dairy heifers and arent planning on expanding mad in the next couple of years it wont cause much of a herd problem to go beef for a year or two..after that you'd want to be looking at a proper plan...

browned

whelan2 wrote: »

How much lower is your esb bill since you went on OAD?

Haven't compared to last year properly yet. Think the first bill was €126 but it was only an estimate

the_blue_oval

browned wrote: »

Haven't compared to last year properly yet. Think the first bill was €126 but it was only an estimate

How are you finding milking oad? What sort of % of cows didn't suit oad when you made the switch and what stocking rate do you think you can carry oad vs tad milking?

Sorry for bringing thread off topic but I'm seriously considering setting up a oad herd when I go home full time in a few years..

jaymla627

cute geoge wrote: »

What is all the bull about herd quality diminishing if you dont use a.i. this year .
The highest ebi herd in the country rarely has used a.i.

Inbreeding would be the biggest the worry, with so much Oman/Oman sons being used the last 10 plus years finding good outcross bulls is difficult, have a lot of oman/shottle through the cows and heifers here so does be a mission finding a suitable stock bull, on the lookout for one at the minute as last year's purchase has gone infertile

whelan2

blue5000 wrote: »

Not dairying, so N only going on first cut + slurry.
Ploughing in slurry for kale to feed weanlings.
Hay, weather permitting instead of wrapping strong grass.
One spray programme on the spring barley, again weather permitting.
Diy fencing and machinery maintenance/repairs.
Collect rainwater for paddocks near yard.

As patsy says try reduce % on the three biggies, contractor, meal and fert.

Does making hay save money, by the time you mow, turn it numerous times , row it bales it , draw it in would it not be the same price as baled silage ( diesel costs and labour for turning etc would probably work out the same as the plastic for bales?) Added in if you dont get the weather, in my mind hay=hardship

blue5000

whelan2 wrote: »

Does making hay save money, by the time you mow, turn it numerous times , row it bales it , draw it in would it not be the same price as baled silage ( diesel costs and labour for turning etc would probably work out the same as the plastic for bales?) Added in if you dont get the weather, in my mind hay=hardship

I hear you, depends how heavy a crop is, 5 or 6 bales off a strong grazing paddock, it's probably better to wrap it, but if there is 10-12 bales to the acre at perhaps 5 yoyo/ bale it might be an option in good weather. Hay would be easier to transport as well. Probably is sfa of a difference.

Miname

cute geoge wrote: »

What is all the bull about herd quality diminishing if you dont use a.i. this year .
The highest ebi herd in the country rarely has used a.i.

Your misinterpreting what I was saying and coming out all guns blazing if you feel better now I might just point out that lads that have spent years on breeding may just wreck it all by sticking a bull in that may not suit every cow. Most Bulls out there are good but not exceptional ai included but if your big into breeding you'll try correct a cows faults by using a certain bull. Are you going to carry a bull to suit all your cows? Is there a bull that'll suit all your cows if there is fair play to you.

Timmaay

Postponed a new slatted tank, instead will cull heavy the back end to take pressure off winter storage, accommodation, winter fodder, alongside a very useful cash flow injection (win win!). In fairness not a hope the government would have TAMS 2 sorted for me this autumn anyways. Lower use of AI, only aiming for about 10 replacements next year, very selection about only breeding from cows over 150ebi and 20kg f+p, everything else goes to the AA or HE bull. Probably put off reseeding this year, bar we have a nice wet summer, aka no droughts ha. Other things include off farm investment, zero capital expenditure on machinery, reducing myown hours worked on the farm! (this is for myown headspace 2bh, if I'm earning dam all from the farm and it's barely abit to cover it's costs then I sure as **** refuse to be a slave). I've actually gone lazier in terms of milking, cows usually milked at 8am and 5pm, but again good for my headspace, and let's me focus on other things at night time.

On the other hand I've definitely increased the amount of N, P&K spread on the farm, to allow me grow more grass, this should see a return on investment in reduced feed use (I'll be dammit if I'll pay 250/ton if nuts with 70e of that going into the merchant back pocket when a ton of N will net me 1.4 times the value in grass), I've increased my labour use during calving season, next year I'll seriously consider hiring a student if the right one shows up), this I would hazard a guess easily pays for itself in reduced losses and better animal performance in the spring!

Finally like browned giving things like clover serious thought, alongside keeping options such as organic milk, a flying herd etc fully opened. None of the above is directly because of the current slump in milk, but moreso tightening up ship to be a more efficient producer long term, and remain in business and able to expand and jump on opportunities whether the based price is 20 or 40c/l.

mf240

It's easy be on top of costs when price is bad. It's when the price is good that you need to be careful not to build cost into the system .

tractorporn

Timmaay wrote:

On the other hand I've definitely increased the amount of N, P&K spread on the farm, to allow me grow more grass, this should see a return on investment in reduced feed use (I'll be dammit if I'll pay 250/ton if nuts with 70e of that going into the merchant back pocket when a ton of N will net me 1.4 times the value in grass), I've increased my labour use during calving season, next year I'll seriously consider hiring a student if the right one shows up), this I would hazard a guess easily pays for itself in reduced losses and better animal performance in the spring!

Timmaay wrote:

Postponed a new slatted tank, instead will cull heavy the back end to take pressure off winter storage, accommodation, winter fodder

Have done the same here have mothballed plans to put up a new slatted unit for cows/calving boxes. Hope to rent half a shed off the brother in law to ease slurry pressure. I am going to reseed a 6 acre piece of ground as it hasn't been turned over in 40 years and we will seed a good return on it. Only for the yfs top up this work would have been put on the long finger too though.

kevthegaff

Have 300 - 500 gallon troughs in, and some fields have two, v high gravity flow so constant flow, might even bring it down to yard eventually as I'd say quality is top notch. My yard 2 hp pump has trouble going up one hill so I'd reckon it wouldn't make it up the steeper one! Also have access to streams. Gona keep putting in troughs as I can get seconds from local maker

kowtow

browned wrote:

No evening milkings so all milk cooled on night rate. Water is all gravity fed. Less detergent, less teat spray, Change liners once per year. Less meal being fed. Using pke/hulls when needed Will self feed silage this winter instead of bales. Less diesel and cheaper to make Sowing clover across the whole farm so should reduce N in the autumn. All AA/HE a.i. Cheaper straws. No stock Bulls. No scanning or vet treatments. No reseeding being done, money being spend on lime instead Trading relief milkings with a neighbour. Looking into using river stones as recyclable needing for calves going forward and creating a loafing pad for cows near calving for the daytime to save on straw.

Browned - I have been meaning to say for some time, and your post above reminds me, that your approach to things is amazingly comprehensive and creative... a fantastic advert for taking things in hand and finding a solution on the farm.

whelan2

I still have a lad in doing a few milkings , bring kids swimming on a Tuesday evening and this gives me headspace and a break. When bull goes in later in the week I wont need to go out when he milks in the morning as no ai/ fresh calvers, cant wait

Muckit

You have a bull that milks?.... class!!! Pulling their t*ts is foreplay l presume

browned

kowtow wrote: »

Browned - I have been meaning to say for some time, and your post above reminds me, that your approach to things is amazingly comprehensive and creative... a fantastic advert for taking things in hand and finding a solution on the farm.

Thanks kowtow. Bought my farm when I was 20 so paying back large debt has forced a bit of creativity over the yrs. I'll be honest that I'm just in a persuit of laziness at the moment and its just coincidental that it's working alongside cost cutting nicely

blackdog1

Simplest things I've done that I find effective are.
Cut out any cows that are fat and not milking well and have some problem..feet/scc / fertility(winter herd) as cull cows will probably drop very quickly in October/November. Breed all heifers to Ai. Put bull in 2 weeks early.

Also I've started buying things like teat spray and acids in bulk. Hurts short term but big gain long term.

The rest people have stated. I won't stop feeding cows as I get good money for culls etc. Capital expenditure will be stopped for the moment.

Like most farmers I'm feeling the heat but paying people every month if not completely clearing bills I'm getting them down. If I break even it will be a good win seeing as prices look like they're gonna get worse. Also shop around vets for vaccinating etc. Huge differences.

darragh_haven

Not in dairy, in beef. but cut back on numbers, fertiliser and topping. Profit was up last year.

mengele

whelan2 wrote: »

Does making hay save money, by the time you mow, turn it numerous times , row it bales it , draw it in would it not be the same price as baled silage ( diesel costs and labour for turning etc would probably work out the same as the plastic for bales?) Added in if you dont get the weather, in my mind hay=hardship

havnt you a ferguson 20 or 35? that will turn the hay perfectly for very little diesel. No need to be putting the big tm on those jobs. Small tractors can and should be used for all these type jobs.

milkprofit

Have u done cash flow budget for this year why not.

Timmaay wrote: »

Postponed a new slatted tank, instead will cull heavy the back end to take pressure off winter storage, accommodation, winter fodder, alongside a very useful cash flow injection (win win!). In fairness not a hope the government would have TAMS 2 sorted for me this autumn anyways. Lower use of AI, only aiming for about 10 replacements next year, very selection about only breeding from cows over 150ebi and 20kg f+p, everything else goes to the AA or HE bull. Probably put off reseeding this year, bar we have a nice wet summer, aka no droughts ha. Other things include off farm investment, zero capital expenditure on machinery, reducing myown hours worked on the farm! (this is for myown headspace 2bh, if I'm earning dam all from the farm and it's barely abit to cover it's costs then I sure as **** refuse to be a slave). I've actually gone lazier in terms of milking, cows usually milked at 8am and 5pm, but again good for my headspace, and let's me focus on other things at night time.

On the other hand I've definitely increased the amount of N, P&K spread on the farm, to allow me grow more grass, this should see a return on investment in reduced feed use (I'll be dammit if I'll pay 250/ton if nuts with 70e of that going into the merchant back pocket when a ton of N will net me 1.4 times the value in grass), I've increased my labour use during calving season, next year I'll seriously consider hiring a student if the right one shows up), this I would hazard a guess easily pays for itself in reduced losses and better animal performance in the spring!

Finally like browned giving things like clover serious thought, alongside keeping options such as organic milk, a flying herd etc fully opened. None of the above is directly because of the current slump in milk, but moreso tightening up ship to be a more efficient producer long term, and remain in business and able to expand and jump on opportunities whether the based price is 20 or 40c/l.

browned

milkprofit wrote: »

Have u done cash flow budget for this year why not.

That's one thing that I'm putting a lot of effort into this year. Once an expense occurs it's written down on a profit and loss whiteboard in the office, the first thing I see when I open the door. Really adds a bit of focus.

milkprofit

browned wrote: »

That's one thing that I'm putting a lot of effort into this year. Once an expense occurs it's written down on a profit and loss whiteboard in the office, the first thing I see when I open the door. Really adds a bit of focus.

Good but do the budget for rest of year
Will it give positive or negative

Timmaay

milkprofit wrote: »

Have u done cash flow budget for this year why not.

Ugh on the to do list, I need to do a time flow budget 1stly! It will fall outa last year's teagasc cash flow planner easy enough, I try have it done for the meeting thur!

browned

milkprofit wrote: »

Good but do the budget for rest of year
Will it give positive or negative

Based on receipts to date should be in positive by end of month. Have projections and last year's expenses put in for the rest of the year but prefer to zero budget if I'm honest.

Timmaay

browned wrote: »

Sowing clover across the whole farm so should reduce N in the autumn.

How is the clover sowed and any rough price per acre? Should you only really use it on largely weed free fields as you'll be stuck with clover friendly sprays which I've heard are alot less effective and more expensive? How long does the clover last for in the soil, do you need to sow it every few years? Do you have much clover now, would you be afraid doing the whole farm will lead to management difficulties next year etc with it? Clover is a plant that I'm taking alot more an interest in here also, but at the very initial stages with it also, it has to be able to work here with an overall SR of 3lu/Ha, and still allow as good as possible growth on the shoulder months when the clover itself is alot less effective.

browned

Timmaay wrote: »

How is the clover sowed and any rough price per acre? Should you only really use it on largely weed free fields as you'll be stuck with clover friendly sprays which I've heard are alot less effective and more expensive? How long does the clover last for in the soil, do you need to sow it every few years? Do you have much clover now, would you be afraid doing the whole farm will lead to management difficulties next year etc with it? Clover is a plant that I'm taking alot more an interest in here also, but at the very initial stages with it also, it has to be able to work here with an overall SR of 3lu/Ha, and still allow as good as possible growth on the shoulder months when the clover itself is alot less effective.

No idea the cost as its a teagasc trial so they're footing the bill for seed and sowing afaik. Maybe €7 a kg? Will be spraying for docks preoverseeding the clover. Think it's an einbock tine Harrow that's doing the seeding for it. Don't have any clover on the farm at present but had it years ago and it was a fantastic crop Ah be it in only a few paddocks. I'll prob go 75% of the farm clover and leave 25% grass only for silage ground and safety grazing during bloat risk weather. It'll def lead to increased layers of new management but I've time to kill now. The clon cows on clover gain in litres not fat and protein so should help my oad cows stay in milk for longer. I'm told that it works best in higher sr as there's less long term silage being taken in these systems and long term silage doesn't work well with clover as it leads to clover taking over paddocks. From the trials the spring has the same growth, clover exceed the grass by 15kgs a day in summer, the autumns are similar and the grass only exceed the clover by 4kgs over winter which leads to a deficit in the spring. Hope to combat that by sowing beet/kale and grazing it with bales in the spring.

bullnuts

jaymla627 wrote: »

Inbreeding would be the biggest the worry, with so much Oman/Oman sons being used the last 10 plus years finding good outcross bulls is difficult, have a lot of oman/shottle through the cows and heifers here so does be a mission finding a suitable stock bull, on the lookout for one at the minute as last year's purchase has gone infertile

It's line breeding! It's only called inbreeding when it goes wrong

visatorro

don't let herself go shopping during a sale.!

still don't understand how ration is so dear. if I was full time farming it would allow me time to maybe mix straights instead of relying on in parlour feeding but alas. highly stocked so cant cut out ration altogether.

still debating spending a few pound around the yard. very hard to know what to do.