PE to become Leaving Cert subject?

RandomName2 · 13-05-2016 9:13pm #1

Fine Gael having finally formed a government can now outline its proposals while in power.

One of the first of these to get spotlight attention is the idea to make PE a LC subject. Now, I know what you're thinking: physiotherapy is a legitimate enough (albeit fairly niche) subject; but you'd be mistaken. No, not content with having legislated to make it compulsory for secondary school students to attend PE, Fine Gael has decided that it would be a great idea to award points for it. It's academic merit is deliberately void, just to have people exercise while studying real subjects.

Wonder if temperance could be added as a subject as well...

maudgonner · 13-05-2016 9:17pm

PE is not physiotherapy...

jamesbere · 13-05-2016 9:18pm

There's a lot they can learn, from coaching, proper warm up techniques, treatment of injuries and the whole area of sports psychology could be looked at. I think it's a good idea if it's properly done.

MilesMorales1 · 13-05-2016 9:18pm

PE is a GSCE subject in England, I did it myself. It was good, I enjoyed it.

I wear socks · 13-05-2016 9:18pm

I wonder will grades be penalised for students who don't shower afterwards ?

maudgonner · 13-05-2016 9:20pm

I'd be interested to see how they will examine it, but it's not a bad idea. Worthy of discussion anyway.

kfallon · 13-05-2016 9:21pm

maudgonner wrote: »

I'd be interested to see how they will examine it, but it's not a bad idea. Worthy of discussion anyway.

Your grade will be based on how much you sweat!

MilesMorales1 · 13-05-2016 9:22pm

maudgonner wrote: »

I'd be interested to see how they will examine it, but it's not a bad idea. Worthy of discussion anyway.

It was (in the UK) 60% theory exam, 40% coursework. Which involved physical stuff. Got access to do a lot more sports than normal PE.

One eyed Jack · 13-05-2016 9:27pm

I've always wondered why Physical Education wasn't an examination subject already. We've just completed Active Schools week in schools up and down the country and the feedback is that it's been a great success.

There's plenty could be covered in a physical education syllabus, leading a healthy, active lifestyle, healthy eating and so on.

maudgonner · 13-05-2016 9:36pm

MilesMorales1 wrote: »

It was (in the UK) 60% theory exam, 40% coursework. Which involved physical stuff. Got access to do a lot more sports than normal PE.

As long as the practical isn't graded on sporting ability that sounds great.

I have an image in my head of some poor kid desperate to score a goal in order to go to college.

kfallon · 13-05-2016 9:39pm

maudgonner wrote: »

I have an image in my head of some poor kid desperate to score a goal in order to go to college.

I lol'd

All they kids D.I.Y.'ing it to try get into the best 3rd Level education :P

RandomName2 · 13-05-2016 9:40pm

One eyed Jack wrote: »

I've always wondered why Physical Education wasn't an examination subject already.

Because it isn't an academic subject.

One eyed Jack wrote: »

We've just completed Active Schools week in schools up and down the country and the feedback is that it's been a great success.

There's plenty could be covered in a physical education syllabus, leading a healthy, active lifestyle, healthy eating and so on.

Some of that is already covered in home economics. It's also covered in years of mandatory material in primary school (and of course doesn't make much difference if the core values of the home don't match up).

HardenendMan · 13-05-2016 9:41pm

Should reduce the number of obese kids leaving school and dragging the standards down in college.

maudgonner · 13-05-2016 9:42pm

RandomName2 wrote: »

Because it isn't an academic subject.

Neither is woodwork, it could be argued. Or Art. Or Music.

I'm all in favour of subjects that aren't traditionally academic being included in the LC syllabus., Not everyone is interested in only academic subjects, not everyone will go on to use them in their careers.

Doesn't it seem ridiculous that someone can go to college to study Physical Education or Sports Science without having studied them for the LC, and having gained the college entry points entirely through unrelated subjects? Particularly when we're trying to encourage kids to be more physically active.

TheWarChicken · 13-05-2016 9:43pm

It doesn't make sense as a concept anyway. Home ec covers the actual academic bit, while the rest is just messing about normally. Besides, I would consider "leaving cert PE " a joke

RandomName2 · 13-05-2016 9:44pm

jamesbere wrote: »

There's a lot they can learn, from coaching, proper warm up techniques, treatment of injuries and the whole area of sports psychology could be looked at. I think it's a good idea if it's properly done.

The motive is clearly just to have teenagers exercise more. As such it's unlikely to get any proper treatment. For it to be a proper subject, you'd have to see the "exercise" bit as superfluous.

If you are talking about psychology, management, injuries, technique or rules then exercise isn't strictly necessary, and, as the entire motive of this is exercise... well, you get the idea.

Forgot that we already have many universities offering sports based scholarships to people who excel in a particular sport: but of course, this suggestion of PE as a LC subject has nothing to do with excelling at sport, merely exercise.

kfallon · 13-05-2016 9:45pm

Imagine doing Pass P.E.

TheWarChicken · 13-05-2016 9:46pm

Sport and school should absolutely be separate. Some people don't like sports, and now their being forced into it by the government, LC students have enough to worry about.

valoren · 13-05-2016 9:48pm

I've always thought that it should be a test. You can choose your discipline and will get tested for the leaving cert.

Say you like running. You would be tested for a 10k timed run. The grade received would be based of of current known standards.

It would be optional. A healthy way to propose up your points tally.

MilesMorales1 · 13-05-2016 9:48pm

TheWarChicken wrote: »

Sport and school should absolutely be separate. Some people don't like sports, and now their being forced into it by the government, LC students have enough to worry about.

Is giving people PE as an option forcing them to do anything?

The Backwards Man · 13-05-2016 9:49pm

They should be teaching wains how to rod drains and bake scones, none of this fancy pie in the sky nonsense that they'll never use. Name one practical use for a shot put or jumping a skipping rope.

Just one, I dare you.

Dirty Dingus McGee · 13-05-2016 9:49pm

Anything that gets people exercising more should be encouraged it's a key part of life and if it gets students in good habits for the rest of their lives and improve the health and well being of people going forward then there should be no argument against it.

There should be at least 1 class/1 hour of PE per day in every single school in Ireland.

maudgonner · 13-05-2016 9:49pm

TheWarChicken wrote: »

Sport and school should absolutely be separate. Some people don't like sports, and now their being forced into it by the government, LC students have enough to worry about.

It's being proposed as an optional subject.

But I do think PE should be mandatory in school (not as an examined subject). It doesn't have to be sport, but some form of exercise. And I'm speaking as someone who really didn't enjoy PE in school

jamesbere · 13-05-2016 9:50pm

TheWarChicken wrote: »

Sport and school should absolutely be separate. Some people don't like sports, and now their being forced into it by the government, LC students have enough to worry about.

I didn't like Irish but still had to do it

Dirty Dingus McGee · 13-05-2016 9:51pm

TheWarChicken wrote: »

Sport and school should absolutely be separate. Some people don't like sports, and now their being forced into it by the government, LC students have enough to worry about.

People don't like maths and the government are forcing them to do that aswell.

There is not one negative about having students exercise more.

TheWarChicken · 13-05-2016 9:51pm

valoren wrote: »

I've always thought that it should be a test. You can choose your discipline and will get tested for the leaving cert.

Say you like running. You would be tested for a 10k timed run. The grade received would be based of of current known standards.

So under that logic, a person can get all A's and have a big f on their college application because they failed PE. Being in peak physical condition won't help a writer or a scientist.

maudgonner · 13-05-2016 9:52pm

The Backwards Man wrote: »

They should be teaching wains how to rod drains and bake scones, none of this fancy pie in the sky nonsense that they'll never use. Name one practical use for a shot put or jumping a skipping rope.

Just one, I dare you.

When you bake scones and they turn out hard as rocks you'll need to know how to dispose of them by flinging them as hard as you can so that they end up in the neighbour's garden.

Doing the spinning around in a circle and letting out the shotputter's roar is entirely optional.

:pac:

Dirty Dingus McGee · 13-05-2016 9:52pm

TheWarChicken wrote: »

So under that logic, a person can get all A's and have a big f on their college application because they failed PE. Being in peak physical condition won't help a writer or a scientist.

Being in good physical conditions helps everything. If you are only sitting at a desk all day being fit will help you.

clairewithani · 13-05-2016 9:53pm

Why not have PE as an exam subject. If you are good at art you have a subject easy for you, same with music, same if you are from a Gaelscoil. If you are talented at sports why not have this as a subject?

valoren · 13-05-2016 9:54pm

TheWarChicken wrote: »

valoren wrote: »

I've always thought that it should be a test. You can choose your discipline and will get tested for the leaving cert.

Say you like running. You would be tested for a 10k timed run. The grade received would be based of of current known standards.

So under that logic, a person can get all A's and have a big f on their college application because they failed PE. Being in peak physical condition won't help a writer or a scientist.

It would be optional. Bonus points. Like for those who do honours maths. An incentive but not mandatory.

TheWarChicken · 13-05-2016 9:54pm

Getting students to exercise more should absolutely be encouraged, just not through "get fit or fail" I have no problem with it as an option, it's difficult to get sports scholarships, and every little helps.

jamesbere · 13-05-2016 9:55pm

TheWarChicken wrote: »

So under that logic, a person can get all A's and have a big f on their college application because they failed PE. Being in peak physical condition won't help a writer or a scientist.

It helped iron man

TheWarChicken · 13-05-2016 9:56pm

jamesbere wrote: »

It helped iron man

True that

RandomName2 · 13-05-2016 9:56pm

maudgonner wrote: »

Neither is woodwork, it could be argued. Or Art. Or Music.

Wordwork ins't on the leaving cert is it!? Surely Leaving Cert Applied? Seriously bad indictment of our education system if it is. Not that carpentry isn't a valid area of expertise, but it is part of the trade system, the same as plumbing, and being an electrician. Chalk and cheese.

Music is certainly an academic subject: so much so that Music in 3rd level often has little practical component. Art is a real outlier.

maudgonner wrote: »

I'm all in favour of subjects that aren't traditionally academic being included in the LC syllabus., Not everyone is interested in only academic subjects, not everyone will go on to use them in their careers.

Sure, but then they perhaps should not be thinking of entering the CAO points race or going onto third level. Too many people go into useless courses in third level as it is, or courses that have merit, but the people entering them have no interest in the area and just went to college because that's "the thing to do". If we want to diversify the education system (which may be no bad idea) adding a fake subject to the CAO bidding process seems like a step in the wrong direction.

maudgonner wrote: »

Doesn't it seem ridiculous that someone can go to college to study Physical Education or Sports Science without having studied them for the LC, and having gained the college entry points entirely through unrelated subjects? Particularly when we're trying to encourage kids to be more physically active.

You don't study Physical Education, no more than you study jam making or basket weaving. You may "do" these at third level, doesn't change the fact.

TheWarChicken · 13-05-2016 9:57pm

Dirty Dingus McGee wrote: »

People don't like maths and the government are forcing them to do that aswell.

There is not one negative about having students exercise more.

I personally hate maths and Irish with a passion, believe both of them to be nearly useless, they should be removed, or at least tweaked.

Keane2baMused · 13-05-2016 9:59pm

RandomName2 wrote: »

Wordwork ins't on the leaving cert is it!? Surely Leaving Cert Applied? Seriously bad indictment of our education system if it is. Not that carpentry isn't a valid area of expertise, but it is part of the trade system, the same as plumbing, and being an electrician. Chalk and cheese.

Music is certainly an academic subject: so much so that Music in 3rd level often has little practical component. Art is a real outlier.

Sure, but then they perhaps should not be thinking of entering the CAO points race or going onto third level. Too many people go into useless courses in third level as it is, or courses that have merit, but the people entering them have no interest in the area and just went to college because that's "the thing to do". If we want to diversify the education system (which may be no bad idea) adding a fake subject to the CAO bidding process seems like a step in the wrong direction.

You don't study Physical Education, no more than you study jam making or basket weaving. You may "do" these at third level, doesn't change the fact.

If you don't study P.E. then why do they have P.E. teachers?

Sure just fire them all and get them running around the pitch for an hour by whatever teacher has a free class

TheWarChicken · 13-05-2016 10:01pm

I think they should make it apply to sport colleges, but not main academic ones. I just can't stand the idea of having to work out to get more marks to become a businessman.

lawlolawl · 13-05-2016 10:02pm

Any points achieved from doing PE in the leaving cert should only apply if you are applying for something sports science-y in college.

No one should be getting into business or technology or whatever courses because the 100 points they got from "being real good at running around/playing a game" were taken into account.

Keane2baMused · 13-05-2016 10:03pm

TheWarChicken wrote: »

I think they should make it apply to sport colleges, but not main academic ones. I just can't stand the idea of having to work out to get more marks to become a businessman.

There is no such thing as a "main academic one", flippin eck.

TheWarChicken · 13-05-2016 10:04pm

Keane2baMused wrote: »

If you don't study P.E. then why do they have P.E. teachers?

Sure just fire them all and get them running around the pitch for an hour by whatever teacher has a free class

Half the time that's what ends up happening. Teachers don't have a plan, so they send the class to play soccer for 4 weeks in a row. Half the class usually forge notes or "forget" gear to get out of it.

wakka12 · 13-05-2016 10:04pm

TheWarChicken wrote: »

Sport and school should absolutely be separate. Some people don't like sports, and now their being forced into it by the government, LC students have enough to worry about.

And some people don't like school. And some people love sports. Everyone does things they don't like sometimes. Sports /physical activity and exercise are as important parts of life as leaving cert subjects, many of which are completely useless after you leave school.

TheWarChicken · 13-05-2016 10:05pm

lawlolawl wrote: »

Any points achieved from doing PE in the leaving cert should only apply if you are applying for something sports science-y in college.

No one should be getting into business or technology or whatever courses because the 100 points they got from "being real good at running around/playing a game" were taken into account.

Thank you, thats a lot better said than my point.

Keane2baMused · 13-05-2016 10:05pm

TheWarChicken wrote: »

Half the time that's what ends up happening. Teachers don't have a plan, so they send the class to play soccer for 4 weeks in a row. Half the class usually forge notes or "forget" gear to get out of it.

Not if it's well run.

Definitely wasn't the way in my school. You got in sh1t if you forgot your P.E. Gear and had to do it no matter how crap the weather was.

TheWarChicken · 13-05-2016 10:08pm

wakka12 wrote: »

And some people don't like school. And some people love sports. Everyone does things they don't like sometimes. Sports /physical activity and exercise are as important parts of life as leaving cert subjects, many of which are completely useless after you leave school.

Schools aren't for sports though. They just aren't. Yeah half it is useless, but the sporty people should take it as an option, to get extra points. But if it is a mandatory subject, then it should be scrapped for LC

wakka12 · 13-05-2016 10:09pm

Keane2baMused wrote: »

Not if it's well run.

Definitely wasn't the way in my school. You got in sh1t if you forgot your P.E. Gear and had to do it no matter how crap the weather was.

Ours was a horrible middle ground, got in huge trouble if we forgot gear or didnt attend but once everyone was present the teacher didnt give a **** and handed us a football every week for the entire ****ing term..hated football so much..dreaded the 2 hours class every week..

Sand · 13-05-2016 10:11pm

Dirty Dingus McGee wrote: »

Anything that gets people exercising more should be encouraged it's a key part of life and if it gets students in good habits for the rest of their lives and improve the health and well being of people going forward then there should be no argument against it.

There should be at least 1 class/1 hour of PE per day in every single school in Ireland.

I've had at least 1 class/1 hour of Irish per day in every single school I attended since the age of 5 or 6. I cant speak Irish. Most Irish people cant speak Irish. So few Irish can speak Irish that an all Irish music festival was cancelled because no one bought any tickets.

The health/exercise routine you speak about may be instilled, but school has next to nothing to do with it, and PE should not join the Irish language in the "Something ought to be done...something is being done...hence success" strategy.

maudgonner · 13-05-2016 10:13pm

RandomName2 wrote: »

Wordwork ins't on the leaving cert is it!? Surely Leaving Cert Applied? Seriously bad indictment of our education system if it is. Not that carpentry isn't a valid area of expertise, but it is part of the trade system, the same as plumbing, and being an electrician. Chalk and cheese.

You're right, woodwork isn't part of the LC (I had to look it up, it's a while since I did it) - construction technology is. As is technology, and Design & Communication Graphics.

https://www.examinations.ie/index.php?l=en&mc=ca&sc=sb

Try not to fall off your chair in shock at such practical subjects mixing with the lofty academia of the Leaving Cert :eek:

RandomName2 · 13-05-2016 10:13pm

clairewithani wrote: »

Why not have PE as an exam subject. If you are good at art you have a subject easy for you, same with music, same if you are from a Gaelscoil. If you are talented at sports why not have this as a subject?

How about if you are talented at video games, chess, or surfing? Why not have these as subjects?

clairewithani · 13-05-2016 10:29pm

RandomName2 wrote: »

How about if you are talented at video games, chess, or surfing? Why not have these as subjects?

They are all sports. Can be modules in it.

seriously though what is wrong with PE as a subject?

Dirty Dingus McGee · 13-05-2016 10:34pm

Sand wrote: »

I've had at least 1 class/1 hour of Irish per day in every single school I attended since the age of 5 or 6. I cant speak Irish. Most Irish people cant speak Irish. So few Irish can speak Irish that an all Irish music festival was cancelled because no one bought any tickets.

The health/exercise routine you speak about may be instilled, but school has next to nothing to do with it, and PE should not join the Irish language in the "Something ought to be done...something is being done...hence success" strategy.

But you would hope that it would get people so used to exercising regularly that it would become part of their life going forward .

Even if it has no benefit after the students leave school it's good to have a time allocated 5 out of 7 days of the week for every student to exercise.

There is a childhood/adolescent obesity epidemic affecting this country (and numerous others), seeing as parents don't seem to be able to fix it maybe the government through schools can try and do something about it and putting more emphasis on PE in school might help.

Sand · 13-05-2016 10:47pm

Dirty Dingus McGee wrote: »

But you would hope that it would get people so used to exercising regularly that it would become part of their life going forward .

So why cant I speak Irish? Why is it not part of my daily life?

Even if it has no benefit after the students leave school it's good to have a time allocated 5 out of 7 days of the week for every student to exercise.

There is a childhood/adolescent obesity epidemic affecting this country (and numerous others), seeing as parents don't seem to be able to fix it maybe the government through schools can try and do something about it and putting more emphasis on PE in school might help.

You're in the something ought to be done, something is being done, hence success thinking trap there.

The best way to solve childhood/adolescent obesity is to drop the kids of somewhere south of the Artic circle in the Canadian wilds. Either the kids die, or they come back much thinner with some valuable life lessons and a newfound respect for physical exercise and cardio.

Honestly, healthy living is a personal choice. Individuals need to make that choice. No one could force me to learn Irish. You cannot force anyone to be healthy. If you want to affect a societal wide change you need to hit a lot more than the world kids see 1 hour a fricking day.

PE to become Leaving Cert subject?

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