Can't adapt to working

liam650

So I am finding it difficult to find work but when I do I always get let go very quickly, due to the fact i'm quiet and introverted and don't talk crap like everyone else does, I go to my job, do the description of work on the contract and go home, that should be enough but clearly not.

Anyone any advice on how to fix this without me becoming like one of the rest? it's discrimination, for example I could work in a supermarket, be fast at the checkouts, stack shelves really fast, be polite to customers, I could do all this much better than the staff member that is overweight, constantly gossips and has a long Que of customers at the checkout, but yet the boss will let me go, a disgrace.

Anyone with tips or help? even some employers out there, would be greatful

Blacktie.

Ask for feedback when you're let go. You're not being let go for not gossiping.

davo10

It's not discrimination, you have to make more of an effort to get on with your colleagues, the fact that you are disparaging about their physical appearance in your post may lead others to believe that you have an attitude problem.

Atlantic Dawn

liam650 wrote: »

for example I could work in a supermarket, be fast at the checkouts, stack shelves really fast, be polite to customers, I could do all this much better than the staff member that is overweight, constantly gossips and has a long Que of customers at the checkout, but yet the boss will let me go, a disgrace.

Anyone with tips or help? even some employers out there, would be greatful

Get a job in LIDL or Aldi, this is exactly the people they look for, super efficient and not a talking shop.

05eaftqbrs9jlh

Atlantic Dawn wrote:

Get a job in LIDL or Aldi, this is exactly the people they look for, super efficient and not a talking shop.

Ha, tell that to the customers in Lidl Togher by me. Not that I'd for a second begrudge them a conversation. I actually like when there's banter about the place.

Wonzy

Sounds like a problem with your attitude and need a serious wake up call. Are you ignoring co workers? You don't have to like your co workers but do need to be friendly and courteous.

liam650

A simple Hi how are you? is what I say to co workers, thats it, i cant relate to this banter stuff, they laugh about things i do not find funny, All i want is to do my job, be polite and go home, but no that doesnt seem to be good enough

Stheno

liam650 wrote: »

A simple Hi how are you? is what I say to co workers, thats it, i cant relate to this banter stuff, they laugh about things i do not find funny, All i want is to do my job, be polite and go home, but no that doesnt seem to be good enough

Havev you actually been told you were let go because you are unsocial/too quiet?

Ursus Horribilis

At a guess, there is something "off" about your manner. You said you're quiet and introverted. Fine - not everyone in this world is going to be a social butterfly. Is there a chance that what you consider to be quiet and introverted is coming across to others as cold, hostile, rude, disinterested and terse? Whether you like it or not, there's more to most jobs than just the actual tasks you're asked to carry out. What sort of colleague are you? Nobody's asking you to become best buddies with everyone and bring them in coffee and muffins on a Friday. But if you're coming across as cold and aloof and as having something of an attitude, people aren't going to enjoy working with you. Maybe I am reading too much into your wording but you did use the phrase "talking crap". Most people would use the term "small talk". There's also that comment about the overweight colleague that the others have alluded to.

The other week I went into Tesco and was served by a checkout operator who I hope was just having a bad day. Sure, she said hello at the start and thank you at the end but it's the bit in between that stuck in my head. She looked really grumpy and the way she scanned my groceries and practically flung them to the the other end of the checkout made her stick in my head.

Do you have any friends you could talk to and give you honest feedback? Perhaps there are things they've spotted too?

If it's not your manner that's causing you problems, could it be something to do with your general appearance or grooming? Do you show up for work freshly washed, with clean clothes and cleanly shaven. Do you have any annoying habits that'd get to people? Like belching, picking your nose, breaking wind etc?

dollyk

Hi op, My son is exactly the same, He has no time for idle chit chat, wants to go to work, complete his tasks and come home, would not get involved with anyone outside working hours, didnt see the point in even pretending to have something in common with any of is co workers, and was the only one that would not partake in cris kindle xmas stuff. Its just the way he is. I think if he never had to speak to anyone he would be happy, But thats ok when hes at home, But in work it can seem he lacks in empathy for others, lowers morale, and comes across as the person who thinks he is better than anyone else.He has lost a few jobs because of this, and now makes a bigger effort to be sociable at work, But it is an effort all the same. So I do feel for you, and maybe try get a job that does not involve working with lots of people.

Ursus Horribilis

liam650 wrote: »

A simple Hi how are you? is what I say to co workers, that's it, i cant relate to this banter stuff, they laugh about things I do not find funny, All I want is to do my job, be polite and go home, but no that doesn't seem to be good enough

Have you had this problem in every job you've had?

2RockMountain

dollyk wrote: »

So I do feel for you, and maybe try get a job that does not involve working with lots of people.

Good suggestion - maybe something like night security?

jca

I think a job on an injection moulding machine or cnc milling machine would suit you better. It would melt your brain after a few years but at least you don't have to communicate with the machine, only the setter when you manage to break something. 12 hour shifts on these mind melters would make even the most determined lidl/aldi type person cry...

Tipsy McSwagger

liam650 wrote: »

So I am finding it difficult to find work but when I do I always get let go very quickly, due to the fact i'm quiet and introverted and don't talk crap like everyone else does, I go to my job, do the description of work on the contract and go home, that should be enough but clearly not.

Anyone any advice on how to fix this without me becoming like one of the rest? it's discrimination, for example I could work in a supermarket, be fast at the checkouts, stack shelves really fast, be polite to customers, I could do all this much better than the staff member that is overweight, constantly gossips and has a long Que of customers at the checkout, but yet the boss will let me go, a disgrace.

Anyone with tips or help? even some employers out there, would be greatful

Ye grow up and improve your attitude.

jca

jca wrote: »

I think a job on an injection moulding machine or cnc milling machine would suit you better. It would melt your brain after a few years but at least you don't have to communicate with the machine, only the setter when you manage to break something. 12 hour shifts on these mind melters would make even the most determined lidl/aldi type person cry...

I did some work in several places like that, great banter among most of the folk on the shopfloor. The few "odd" people were left alone but didn't seem overly happy.

Hard to avoid co workers really in most roles.

dd972

How about HGV or delivery driving OP?, no workplace as such, out and about, do your stuff and get back to your friends and family, you sound like the sort of person who finds being stuck in an office with 150 strangers a living hell.

Train or Luas Driving would be even better if it wasn't as easy as getting into the Orange Order. :pac:

liam650

dollyk wrote: »

Hi op, My son is exactly the same, He has no time for idle chit chat, wants to go to work, complete his tasks and come home, would not get involved with anyone outside working hours, didnt see the point in even pretending to have something in common with any of is co workers, and was the only one that would not partake in cris kindle xmas stuff. Its just the way he is. I think if he never had to speak to anyone he would be happy, But thats ok when hes at home, But in work it can seem he lacks in empathy for others, lowers morale, and comes across as the person who thinks he is better than anyone else.He has lost a few jobs because of this, and now makes a bigger effort to be sociable at work, But it is an effort all the same. So I do feel for you, and maybe try get a job that does not involve working with lots of people.

Hi, thanks for the reply, can you tell me how he copes though? does it bother him that he has to make this effort, because it sickens me to think i have to be someone else that i am not just to technically fit in in the workplace

Ursus Horribilis

liam650 wrote: »

Hi, thanks for the reply, can you tell me how he copes though? does it bother him that he has to make this effort, because it sickens me to think i have to be someone else that i am not just to technically fit in in the workplace

See, there you go again. Sickens. More strong emotive language. Why have you got such a chip on your shoulder? Have you found yourself disliking your colleagues in every single job you've had?

Stheno

liam650 wrote: »

Hi, thanks for the reply, can you tell me how he copes though? does it bother him that he has to make this effort, because it sickens me to think i have to be someone else that i am not just to technically fit in in the workplace

OP, you need a serious attitude change.

I'm an introvert and I have no more interest in the people I work with than the color of the walls in a hotel room I am staying in.

You might be surprised to hear I work as a consultant so I meet loads of different people all of the time.

I got personality tested for a job once which pointed out in very cold language that I was an introvert, and had learned to adapt by "taking an interest in sport and news, so as to have a topic to speak to others about"

And so I had, I kept up with sport I'd no interest in to chat about at tea break etc.

You need to change here and accomodate wider society

Wonzy

liam650 wrote: »

Hi, thanks for the reply, can you tell me how he copes though? does it bother him that he has to make this effort, because it sickens me to think i have to be someone else that i am not just to technically fit in in the workplace

Do you like anyone?

Irish_Elect_Eng

Just as the folks here have pointed out, your real problem may be how you come across. As a manager I hire folks as much for how they fit in and enhance the team that I have as their skills, hiring a lone-wolf is rarely a productive move in a team environment even if they are highly skilled due to the hundreds of interpersonal interactions required every day to get a job done well. I do have a couple of very introverted team members, common enough in engineering, but they understand that to do a great job they need the support of others and they have developed the skills to deal with others.

I respect your desire to stay true to your nature, but suggest that by adapting a little to the culture that you live in may be a happier path in the long run.

To widen your perspective I suggest reading teh following positive books on Introversion:

• Quiet: The Power of Introverts in a World That Can't Stop Talking by Susan Cain
• The Introvert Advantage: Making the Most of Your Inner Strengths (Marti Olsen Laney)
• The Introvert's Way: Living a Quiet Life in a Noisy World (Sophia Dembling)

Billy86

liam650 wrote: »

Hi, thanks for the reply, can you tell me how he copes though? does it bother him that he has to make this effort, because it sickens me to think i have to be someone else that i am not just to technically fit in in the workplace

I'm not trying to be an ass, but that attitude is a huge part of your problem. Yes I get you might not be the most social person, I love my alone time and am a flat out bad person before about 10am (when I say worst morning person in the world, I literally have 12 alarms set on my phone, and three alarm clocks hidden in my room to force me to get up). But the thing is... You still have to be pleasant.

Look at it this way, you're not perfect technically. The guys that are clear six plus figures for the most part. And that's fine, because I am guessing you are reasonably young. Even if you're not young, you have potential. People pretty much always have room for improvement, but they need to be trainable and to show the interest in developing themselves, and in improving other their performance and more importantly, the businesses (or departments, in large businesses).

Going by your posts in the thread, you don't come over as someone who would train others up and who would be more in lined to act negatively about them and look down your nose at them. Public facing roles would be an obvious issue and frankly they're not for everyone. But in thst sense, every role is a public facing role as you have to interact with your workmates. I'm not talking about banter etc, I'm talking about communication. A lack of communication within a business is absolutely cancerous, and not only does it spread but it worsens into a bad atmosphere, paranoia between departments, pushing on blame because of said paranoia, and every aspect of the business focusing on what "the other guys" are doing wrong. Because of this, if there is ever any work related issue you have with someone else, you should always try to look at it from their perspective.

You don't have to be chummy chummy or anything, but if you make yourself the 'bridge' between departments and do it well, you become incredibly hard to sack, and incredibly transferable if your department happens to be downsizing.

If a data entry specialist takes the mindset of "I come in, input the figures, go home. I don't need to talk to anyone" then what do they do if the WiFi starts acting up, or the CRM, or if they have been given the incorrect data from another department? Their interaction with IT, systems support or the other department is likely to be confrontational and stand offish, nobody knows who the others are or what they do, if a third department has a role to play in the mix up, the d/e specialist becomes paranoid that they are being fobbed off or ignored, and the situation escalates into essentially a customer complaint between colleagues (which might sound impossible by definition, and that's exactly why it should never, ever happen). That d/e specialist is however, far more likely to be fobbed off or ignored come the next time they need assistance. Also managers get involved, hr gets involved, etc which costs the company time and money. Chinese whispers lead to the d/e guys getting convinced said other department has it in for them, IT get the same idea in return, all future exchanges become far more difficult ultimate than they should, and this situation runs like a cycle that keeps getting worse. Because of a bad atmosphere that came about through lack of mutual understanding that came about from a lack of communication.

Another example was when I was in Australia working a call centre sales jobs. Half the staff cold called all day, the other half were there to close deals, which is the side I was on. To say some of the outbound guys gave bad leads at times was an understatement, which caused huge issues as close rates impact commissions, KPIs and that whole not-getting-fired thing. So I sat with some of them for a day after requesting with my managed as I was over target early... and proceeded to get the most eye opening, abusive day I ever had in there. Cold calling is brutal stuff. After that, I'd accept the sh*tty leads because they had to get a certain amount over to us to hit their targets. One of the outbound lads from Manchester and I basically took it upon ourselves to constantly remind our departments of the difficulties the others faced, and things improved dramatically while the company more than tripled in size over the next 9 months (35 to about 120). We also made a killing between each other because of constant communication - there was no script and he needed to be sneaky at times to get some over to me, but cancellations were a killer so I made sure I was 100% above board while still being congruent with what he had told them. I left for home and he moved into recruitment, last I heard the company was going under and got bought on the cheap because the two sides reverted back to going to war with each other, and communication broke down.

I'm in Canada now working for a recruitment company (though not as a recruiter) and I can tell you that everyone from start ups all the way to multinationals place a MASSIVE influence in 'personality fit' and for good reason. Sure if it wasn't so important there wouldn't be much need for an interview iew process.


Look at your employability like sports - Ravel Morrison has a lot more natural talent than Frank Lampard did, Frank Lampard really wasn't all that talented. But Lampard worked his ass off in every way possible, did everything he could to communicate with his team mates and understand not only his requirements, but theirs too. He was a huge locker room influence as well, apparently from his fellow stars down to youth team players. He rounded his game out so he could defend as well as attack, and despite being teased as 'fat frank' through his career he routinely covered some of the most ground every year, knowing how and when to cover for his team mates. This allowed him to not only become a world class player and maybe the most important player of one of the best sides in the world for a long time, but to being the one of the most successful and productive midfielders of the last 20 years period.

Basically, Frank Lampard was a great example of a model employee.



Terribly sorry about gong on a massive ramble, but I've been writing this reply in dribs and drabs throughout the day.

TG1

I don't think you're being let go because you are an introvert, half the world are introverts, most of us manage fine.

Your posts hint at a deeper seated issue, your attitude. Others have said it but to reitterate, you need to adjust your attitude towards your colleagues if you want to keep a job.

Try looking past physical traits, don't be so disparriging of people that don't fit into your idea of perfect. There's also a difference between gossip and chat, make sure your not taking normal chat as gossip. I think maybe your not reading your colleagues intent behind their conversations correctly. Sicken is a very strong word, your work colleagues shouldn't be inspiring those sort of feelings, try to step back and remember these are people you deal with on a professional level only and leave behind you at clock out time every day.

Every job will require an element of interaction with people at some point, it's part of life. People skills and teamwork are huge things looked for when recruiting so I would take the time to examine how you and your attitude are contributing to the issue. You might find it's not your colleagues that are the problem.

Wanderer78

best of luck op. apologies, i have no real advice.

Mrs OBumble

davo10 wrote: »

It's not discrimination, you have to make more of an effort to get on with your colleagues, the fact that you are disparaging about their physical appearance in your post may lead others to believe that you have an attitude problem.

On one level Davo10 is right: getting on with colleagues is essential, and there's no job in the world where just doing what's in the job-description is enough.

But maybe the OP is on the autistic spectrum. (Hell, it's a spectrum - we're all on it somewhere) - it could be that there really is discrimination going on.

Just a thought.



OP, have you every heard of the National Learning Network? They're an employment support organisation with provides very specialised help to people who find the workplace difficult for all sorts of reasons. I have no idea if they're right for you or not - but they might be able to help you find a job which is a better fit for your talents, or to teach you how to cope with the "crap" while still staying true to yourself.

Good luck.

Steppenwolfe

liam650 wrote: »

Hi, thanks for the reply, can you tell me how he copes though? does it bother him that he has to make this effort, because it sickens me to think i have to be someone else that i am not just to technically fit in in the workplace

It's easier to cope if you make a game of it. It's a reality show and the work place is your jungle. You have to learn how to survive. Watch and listen. Make mental notes of what tv shows and sports they like and research them. This will enable you contribute to their inane banter. Your goal is to make them believe you're just like them. It will be an effort at first, but the more you practise the easier it will get. Always remember it's just a survival game you play 9 to 5. Challenge yourself to get as good as you can. It's a game. Enjoy it.

People don't like it when you're different. If you're introverted and don't interact with them it feeds their insecuities. They can feel threatened. In a work situation it's easier to put the blame on the quiet one who keeps to himself and is out of the loop. I've seen it many times. Don't be surprised or hurt when this happens. Expect it. It's a jungle. If you want to survive you have to learn to play the game. Make them believe you are just like them and part of the pack. Even if you're not, it's essential you learn to fake it. Otherwise the mob will destroy you.

Wanderer78

Steppenwolfe wrote: »

It's easier to cope if you make a game of it. It's a reality show and the work place is your jungle. You have to learn how to survive. Watch and listen. Make mental notes of what tv shows and sports they like and research them. This will enable you contribute to their inane banter. Your goal is to make them believe you're just like them. It will be an effort at first, but the more you practise the easier it will get. Always remember it's just a survival game you play 9 to 5. Challenge yourself to get as good as you can. It's a game. Enjoy it.

People don't like it when you're different. If you're introverted and don't interact with them it feeds their insecuities. They can feel threatened. In a work situation it's easier to put the blame on the quiet one who keeps to himself and is out of the loop. I've seen it many times. Don't be surprised or hurt when this happens. Expect it. It's a jungle. If you want to survive you have to learn to play the game. Make them believe you are just like them and part of the pack. Even if you're not, it's essential you learn to fake it. Otherwise the mob will destroy you.

please dont take this personal, but thats dreadful advice. op, post 25 is the best advice here. best of luck with it

Hrududu

Have you actually been told the reason why you've been let go or are you assuming it's because you're quiet?

teddyhead

liam650 wrote: »

So I am finding it difficult to find work but when I do I always get let go very quickly, due to the fact i'm quiet and introverted and don't talk crap like everyone else does, I go to my job, do the description of work on the contract and go home, that should be enough but clearly not.

Anyone any advice on how to fix this without me becoming like one of the rest? it's discrimination, for example I could work in a supermarket, be fast at the checkouts, stack shelves really fast, be polite to customers, I could do all this much better than the staff member that is overweight, constantly gossips and has a long Que of customers at the checkout, but yet the boss will let me go, a disgrace.

Anyone with tips or help? even some employers out there, would be greatful

I dont think you need to change your attitude too much. You need to have the courage of your convictions . Find and do something you actually want to do. Perhaps turn a hobby into something more?

shalom

Odus fell down wrote: »

See, there you go again. Sickens. More strong emotive language. Why have you got such a chip on your shoulder? Have you found yourself disliking your colleagues in every single job you've had?

Just because he uses the word sickens , that doesn't meant he uses it in the context You use it. Why oh why are you trying and yes you are trying so hard to make him the same as you, to make yourself feel better.

OP , please don't follow the sheep here, unless you want to. There are a few skills that can be learned if it will make YOU More comfortable. There is NOTHING wrong with the way you work . There is , in my humble opinion something wrong in your colleagues and management opinion. Your employed to do a job , not have to be the same as X amount of the population.
My advice go find a professional who deals with this and if you don't know where to start , I will help you, but I don't believe people here telling you you have a chip on your shoulder is going to help you . All I hear them saying here is follow the sheep follow the sheep . You shouldn't be asked to do any more that what you are employed for , in you contract what exactly did that include? Entertainment skills?

J Mysterio

Stheno wrote: »

OP, you need a serious attitude change.

I'm an introvert and I have no more interest in the people I work with than the color of the walls in a hotel room I am staying in.

You might be surprised to hear I work as a consultant so I meet loads of different people all of the time.

I got personality tested for a job once which pointed out in very cold language that I was an introvert, and had learned to adapt by "taking an interest in sport and news, so as to have a topic to speak to others about"

And so I had, I kept up with sport I'd no interest in to chat about at tea break etc.

You need to change here and accomodate wider society

That's really creepy. I prefer the weird loner who is honest than the calculated disingenous guy.

J Mysterio

Billy86 wrote: »

I'm not trying to be an ass, but that attitude is a huge part of your problem. Yes I get you might not be the most social person, I love my alone time and am a flat out bad person before about 10am (when I say worst morning person in the world, I literally have 12 alarms set on my phone, and three alarm clocks hidden in my room to force me to get up). But the thing is... You still have to be pleasant.

Look at it this way, you're not perfect technically. The guys that are clear six plus figures for the most part. And that's fine, because I am guessing you are reasonably young. Even if you're not young, you have potential. People pretty much always have room for improvement, but they need to be trainable and to show the interest in developing themselves, and in improving other their performance and more importantly, the businesses (or departments, in large businesses).

Going by your posts in the thread, you don't come over as someone who would train others up and who would be more in lined to act negatively about them and look down your nose at them. Public facing roles would be an obvious issue and frankly they're not for everyone. But in thst sense, every role is a public facing role as you have to interact with your workmates. I'm not talking about banter etc, I'm talking about communication. A lack of communication within a business is absolutely cancerous, and not only does it spread but it worsens into a bad atmosphere, paranoia between departments, pushing on blame because of said paranoia, and every aspect of the business focusing on what "the other guys" are doing wrong. Because of this, if there is ever any work related issue you have with someone else, you should always try to look at it from their perspective.

You don't have to be chummy chummy or anything, but if you make yourself the 'bridge' between departments and do it well, you become incredibly hard to sack, and incredibly transferable if your department happens to be downsizing.

If a data entry specialist takes the mindset of "I come in, input the figures, go home. I don't need to talk to anyone" then what do they do if the WiFi starts acting up, or the CRM, or if they have been given the incorrect data from another department? Their interaction with IT, systems support or the other department is likely to be confrontational and stand offish, nobody knows who the others are or what they do, if a third department has a role to play in the mix up, the d/e specialist becomes paranoid that they are being fobbed off or ignored, and the situation escalates into essentially a customer complaint between colleagues (which might sound impossible by definition, and that's exactly why it should never, ever happen). That d/e specialist is however, far more likely to be fobbed off or ignored come the next time they need assistance. Also managers get involved, hr gets involved, etc which costs the company time and money. Chinese whispers lead to the d/e guys getting convinced said other department has it in for them, IT get the same idea in return, all future exchanges become far more difficult ultimate than they should, and this situation runs like a cycle that keeps getting worse. Because of a bad atmosphere that came about through lack of mutual understanding that came about from a lack of communication.

Another example was when I was in Australia working a call centre sales jobs. Half the staff cold called all day, the other half were there to close deals, which is the side I was on. To say some of the outbound guys gave bad leads at times was an understatement, which caused huge issues as close rates impact commissions, KPIs and that whole not-getting-fired thing. So I sat with some of them for a day after requesting with my managed as I was over target early... and proceeded to get the most eye opening, abusive day I ever had in there. Cold calling is brutal stuff. After that, I'd accept the sh*tty leads because they had to get a certain amount over to us to hit their targets. One of the outbound lads from Manchester and I basically took it upon ourselves to constantly remind our departments of the difficulties the others faced, and things improved dramatically while the company more than tripled in size over the next 9 months (35 to about 120). We also made a killing between each other because of constant communication - there was no script and he needed to be sneaky at times to get some over to me, but cancellations were a killer so I made sure I was 100% above board while still being congruent with what he had told them. I left for home and he moved into recruitment, last I heard the company was going under and got bought on the cheap because the two sides reverted back to going to war with each other, and communication broke down.

I'm in Canada now working for a recruitment company (though not as a recruiter) and I can tell you that everyone from start ups all the way to multinationals place a MASSIVE influence in 'personality fit' and for good reason. Sure if it wasn't so important there wouldn't be much need for an interview iew process.


Look at your employability like sports - Ravel Morrison has a lot more natural talent than Frank Lampard did, Frank Lampard really wasn't all that talented. But Lampard worked his ass off in every way possible, did everything he could to communicate with his team mates and understand not only his requirements, but theirs too. He was a huge locker room influence as well, apparently from his fellow stars down to youth team players. He rounded his game out so he could defend as well as attack, and despite being teased as 'fat frank' through his career he routinely covered some of the most ground every year, knowing how and when to cover for his team mates. This allowed him to not only become a world class player and maybe the most important player of one of the best sides in the world for a long time, but to being the one of the most successful and productive midfielders of the last 20 years period.

Basically, Frank Lampard was a great example of a model employee.



Terribly sorry about gong on a massive ramble, but I've been writing this reply in dribs and drabs throughout the day.

You had me untill Frank Lampard.

J Mysterio

Steppenwolfe wrote: »

It's easier to cope if you make a game of it. It's a reality show and the work place is your jungle. You have to learn how to survive. Watch and listen. Make mental notes of what tv shows and sports they like and research them. This will enable you contribute to their inane banter. Your goal is to make them believe you're just like them. It will be an effort at first, but the more you practise the easier it will get. Always remember it's just a survival game you play 9 to 5. Challenge yourself to get as good as you can. It's a game. Enjoy it.

For me, what you describe is how a pyschopath behaves, it is not introversion.

doc11

J Mysterio wrote: »

For me, what you describe is how a pyschopath behaves, it is not introversion.

Agreed. Fake and creepy is far worse then a quite introvert.

Steppenwolfe wrote: »

People don't like it when you're different. If you're introverted and don't interact with them it feeds their insecuities. They can feel threatened. In a work situation it's easier to put the blame on the quiet one who keeps to himself and is out of the loop. I've seen it many times. Don't be surprised or hurt when this happens. Expect it. It's a jungle. If you want to survive you have to learn to play the game. Make them believe you are just like them and part of the pack. Even if you're not, it's essential you learn to fake it. Otherwise the mob will destroy you.

Thats Paranoia.

Internet Ham

J Mysterio wrote: »

That's really creepy. I prefer the weird loner who is honest than the calculated disingenous guy.

My exact thought when reading his response was ''what a creep''.

OP I share your perspective. I struggle chatting with people I don't know and about topics I have no interest in (i.e. most) and have a tiny circle of friends who understand my perspective. Unfortunately to fit in with the rubes (which in my opinion is sixty to eighty percent of our population - look how many voted for FF/FG or the popularity of Conor McGregor) you have to bring yourself down to their level.

You have two options. You can willfully decide to not be yourself. You will be dishonest about who you are but jobs will be easier to hold down and society will accept you more readily, for whatever that is worth.

Or you can be yourself. If people don't like it, they can f**k off. It will be a life of confrontation, of funny looks and constantly fighting against our societies expectation of social obligation.

You and I, OP seem to not be wired for social interaction in the way that a vast majority are. It's not a flaw. It just is what it is. Your attitude does not need adjusting as per Stheno - who has already willingly admitted to being disingenuous so pinch of salt there - and others. Your attitude may not conform but at least it's honest.

doc11

Internet Ham wrote: »

My exact thought when reading his response was ''what a creep''.

OP I share your perspective. I struggle chatting with people I don't know and about topics I have no interest in (i.e. most) and have a tiny circle of friends who understand my perspective. Unfortunately to fit in with the rubes (which in my opinion is sixty to eighty percent of our population - look how many voted for FF/FG or the popularity of Conor McGregor) you have to bring yourself down to their level.

You have two options. You can willfully decide to not be yourself. You will be dishonest about who you are but jobs will be easier to hold down and society will accept you more readily, for whatever that is worth.

Or you can be yourself. If people don't like it, they can f**k off. It will be a life of confrontation, of funny looks and constantly fighting against our societies expectation of social obligation.

.

What's exactly your interests? What topics are OK to talk about.

The type of people who vote FF/FG or support McGregor are likely to be opposite in personality so in reality you just seem to dislike people who don't nod along to your views. You can still talk general politics or sport with said people before you start jumping on your high horse.

Your attitude sucks with "have to bring yourself down to their level" nonsense. "You may think you're too cool for school. But I got a news flash for you...you AREN'T."

Society this and social obligation that? Perhaps your the problem that needs to change rather then the world around you. With such a superiority complex colleagues won't be long telling you to f**k off

Internet Ham

doc11 wrote: »

What exactly your interests? What topics are OK to talk about.

The type of people who vote FF/FG or support McGregor are likely to be opposite in personality so in reality you just seem to dislike people who don't nod along to your views. You can still talk general politics or sport with said people before you start jumping on your high horse.

Your attitude sucks with "have to bring yourself down to their level" nonsense. "You may think you're too cool for school. But I got a news flash for you...you AREN'T."

Society this and social obligation that? Perhaps your the problem that needs to change rather then the world around you. With such a superiority complex colleagues won't be long telling you to f**k off

My interests are none of your concern, nor really relevant to the discussion.

I rather like opposing views. I wouldn't know what I found intolerable without them. That is quite comforting. The tone of your response only further strengthens my initial statement, in my view at least. I would apologise that my view doesn't parallel yours but that would be dishonest.

As for being cool? I learned long ago you either have it or you don't and I have no shame in admitting, I don't got it.

Perhaps I am the one in need of change. I am willing to entertain that notion but I have been able to manage quite well up until now Doc and believe me, I have been tested in ways I doubt you could comprehend.

Speedwell

Hey, I am on the autism spectrum. I have Asperger's. I held the same job for 13 years until the company instituted company-wide layoffs, and I was targeted only because I was the newest member of the team (said the Director of IT personally at my exit interview). During that time I worked as an assistant to senior engineers, got promoted into general software support, became a high-level support tech, then officially given an IT Specialist/IT Business Analyst title at corporate HQ. I held software training classes in the US, Brazil, Argentina, Mexico, England, Scotland, Germany, Romania, South Africa, Nigeria, Dubai, and Abu Dhabi. I was the main end-user advocate and liaison to IT, a role I created myself, and I personally created a culture of user-centeredness in the IT department by making IT staff in non-HQ locations feel more included and supported.

My husband is also on the spectrum. He is high-functioning autistic. He has worked in high-end food retail and is training as a chef. No, he is not the most sociable person in the world, but he works hard, has high consistent standards, and has and shows a tremendous amount of respect for his work, the idea of working generally, the people he works with, and his customers. He is a good, kind person. People like him. He likes himself.

Now, if the first thing you knew about either of us was that we were autistic, would you write us off as unable to get along in society? We're not damaged, untrainable, intellectually deficient, lacking in creativity, disorganised, or irresponsible (especially in our late 40s!). We may not be the life of the party, but we are very often the support of the team. We have to work a little harder to figure out how to do things that come naturally to the neurotypical, and we may occasionally need to have things directly stated to us that are obvious to the neurotypical, but we do figure those things out and we do understand them. We also have unusual strengths and talents you don't have and that are difficult to explain, but we recognise them in each other.

Now can we all stop describing people with the simple inability to get along with others as "on the autistic spectrum"? I know it's a bit of a backhanded compliment since it's better than calling them jerks with no social skills, but sometimes a jerk is just a jerk. And sometimes someone is a friendless asshole with Asperger's (may my father rest in peace). But... no, OK, that's enough. Just stop.

dollyk

My son comes across as asperges.
OP, He too feels he cannot conform to what other people take for granted, like chatty, and interactive.
Also if he were to post he would come across as cold and unfeeling, he can be like that, but thats how his brain is wired.
Also for him a lot of the problem is that he has no filter, he just says things as he thinks.
So for now, he puts on a "WORK HEAD" , so he mentally prepares himself for work.
Its not as easy as some people thing, its a whole mind frame for him.
Dont over stress, pick a job thats right for you . good luck

TG1

dollyk wrote: »

But maybe the OP is on the autistic spectrum. (Hell, it's a spectrum - we're all on it somewhere) - it could be that there really is discrimination going on.

Just a thought

Autism or no, going by the op I doubt they are being let go for not chatting with co workers... Given the tone I would suspect there is more going on that wasn't mentioned. I may be wrong but no company with any knowledge of employment law will actually let someone go for not socialising, and if they do for any reason like that it will be after a long drawn out and documented development plan fails first.

Mrs OBumble

None of us knows what the OP's problem is: s/he may be on the spectrum, or psychopathic or sociopathic or have poor timekeeping or a zillion other issues.

We can't diagnose the problem from one Internet post.

But it's worth keeping an open mind about the possibilitirs.

Ursus Horribilis

shalom wrote: »

Just because he uses the word sickens , that doesn't meant he uses it in the context You use it. Why oh why are you trying and yes you are trying so hard to make him the same as you, to make yourself feel better.

OP , please don't follow the sheep here, unless you want to. There are a few skills that can be learned if it will make YOU More comfortable. There is NOTHING wrong with the way you work . There is , in my humble opinion something wrong in your colleagues and management opinion. Your employed to do a job , not have to be the same as X amount of the population.
My advice go find a professional who deals with this and if you don't know where to start , I will help you, but I don't believe people here telling you you have a chip on your shoulder is going to help you . All I hear them saying here is follow the sheep follow the sheep . You shouldn't be asked to do any more that what you are employed for , in you contract what exactly did that include? Entertainment skills?

Eh?? You're reading WAY too much meaning into that one comment. The reason I pinpointed it was because I feel he has such strong negative feelings towards his colleagues (in a series of jobs?) and the idea of interacting with them. It really shouldn't be a big deal to have a reasonable working relationship with your colleagues. "Sickens" follows hot on the heels of "talking crap" and a harsh way of describing a colleague. The OP asked for advice as to how to hold down a job so I'm pinpointing something that may be an issue for him. Like everyone else who uses boards, he's free to ignore what I have to say.

I don't give two hoots how odd or antisocial our OP may be. I respect people's right to do what they want and would never dream of trying to change anyone. There are plenty of people who just go to work to do their job and don't want to make friends. That's fine. But in the OP's case, there's something about his manner that's costing him job after job. If it is, then he has two choices. Either work at his social skills in work and try to pinpoint why his manner is earning him a series of P45s. Or stay as he is and try to find a job where he can continue as he is.

I can understand how you could end up in one job where you dislike your colleagues but when it keeps happening, then it's definitely something to look at. It's not about being a sheep. It's about putting bread on the table.

seamus

The one thing it's worth noting OP is that your abilities come second place in any job.

Any monkey can be taught how to do virtually any job, given long enough to do it.

But if they don't get along with Co-workers, you can't teach that, you can't fix it.

If given the option between hiring a genius who's a complete asshole or a guy who's average but personable, the personable guy will win every time.

No matter how good you are or think you are, if you grate against colleagues you will lower morale and productivity.

This notion of "I shouldn't have to change who I am" is entitlement nonsense. Choosing not to talk to people isn't who you are, it's just the easy way to live. No man is an island. If you expect the rest of the world to communicate with you on your terms, then you're going to be disappointed when they don't.

liam650

The autism spectrum? definetley not, that's the problem here, most people who have commented here are just like the general working population, no one seems to want to listen to the fact that I DO MY JOB BETTER, except i cant talk crap like the rest, and the thing about talking about peoples weight, well the environment is a gym and I am in shape, because i take it serious, but for some overweight person who hasn't a clue about fitness to be taken on instead of me, even though i fit the job description better, but I suppose sure anyone can do anything once they can gossip and talk crap

Wanderer78

Proceed with caution folks

celligraphy

Sorry op but you really need to work on your attitude you come across as angry, , employers want friendly people who 'll integrate into the working environment I am a bit of a non talker but i 'll happily ask how was your weekend to staff and clients. You need to realize sometimes people have feelings and let's say if a customer needs help you need to be friendly have a can do attitude . also if I was going to a gym and I had a bit of weight I would be much happier to approach the overweight person than someone who would look down on me even if you were in proper shape

Best of luck

Ursus Horribilis

OK, so apart from getting angry at the erroneous autism comment, have you taken in anything else anyone here has suggested to you? This isn't about how good you are at the job part of your job. There is very obviously an issue with the human interaction part of it. Enough of an issue to have lost you some jobs. You asked for help here and you don't appear to want to take on board what you've been told. Which is in short: change your attitude and make more of an effort to connect with your colleagues.

Steppenwolfe

J Mysterio wrote: »

For me, what you describe is how a pyschopath behaves, it is not introversion.

I didn't say it was introversion. It's just a survival technigue. I agree it does have similarities to how a pyschopath/sociopath behaves. Which is why it's a succesful teqhnique when used properly.

doc11 wrote: »

Agreed. Fake and creepy is far worse then a quite introvert.

Implying there is something wrong with being a quiet introvert.

doc11 wrote: »

Thats Paranoia.

It may come across as paranoia to the naive. Years of experience has hardened me to the truth of it.

doc11

Steppenwolfe wrote: »

I didn't say it was introversion. It's just a survival technigue. I agree it does have similarities to how a pyschopath/sociopath behaves. Which is why it's a succesful teqhnique when used properly.




Implying there is something wrong with being a quiet introvert.



It may come across as paranoia to the naive. Years of experience has hardened me to the truth of it.

No YOU implied something was wrong with being introverted by insisting you need to change. Finishing last is far worse then first place but it does not mean that there is something wrong with finishing first

If you think the world/colleagues are out to get you generally the problem isn't with them it's with you.

Littletoe

Is there a possibility that you have had a bad experience in the past which has set up a program that you are still running?

For example op, in my early twenties I found the work that I knew I wanted to do for the rest of my life. I had worked in clerical positions in office environments previous to that without any particular problems but following a loss decided to pack it in to seek something more fulfilling. I was offered a place on a CE scheme in the education sector at school for children with disabilities, specifically with children with autism. I had no qualifications or prior experience but I was provided with training and plenty of on the job experience and all was well. I worked happily with the rest of my co workers, staff and employers and loved my job.

One day during dinner in the school canteen I was overseeing my quarter when I noticed a child had gone deathly silent in her chair. There was no movement and I bent down to listen and there was no breath. Each of the other staff members were chatting away in a group on the other side of the room and with little time to spare took hold of the child and began trying to dislodge what she was obviously choking on. This caused the others to turn and take notice but none of them moved. I looked them in the eye before taking one more slap between the shoulder blades and the child hocked up the half sausage that had been lifted in her windpipe and began breathing again.

The school principal, my ce instructor and half a dozen or so other staff that had watched on silently began to disperse, some of them realising that 1. Oh **** a kid nearly chocked and I'm up here talking about east Ender's and 2. That was not my job, in fact if anything had happened I couldn't have been held accountable as I was not a fully trained, qualified or employed staff member and was merely an assistant, in fact I shouldn't have been in a position of responsibility for their charges at all.

Great story? Six months later I was fired on the spot for asking the principal why the job she gave her niece hadn't been advertised. It was just a simple question but she told me I didn't have the right to ask it and ordered me to go and collect my things and leave the premises immediately. I had never had any issues with any of my Co workers, my supervisors or employers, in fact I had been an exemplary employee.

So I left. I had a young daughter at the time and the devastation of being fired left me unable to try and find work again, the consequences of which were obviously increased hardship and as that evolved it led into a vicious cycle which continued to feed itself. Lack of confidence in my ability coupled with a fear of having to answer that question in interviews and knowing that the school board and that area of speciality was all governed by the same individuals meant I was never going to get past the selection for any potential work in the area.

I fell into a deep depression which lasted for years, the affects of which disabled my ability to speak (like a primal fear) as a result of asking that question and suffering the consequences for it and the deeply ingrained belief that I didn't have that right. I associated speaking with bad things basically so I just stopped.

Now I could go on forever with this story, tell you everything that's happened in the fifteenn years or so since that happened, because the irony is I could write about it for pages. While I'm still useless at speaking, because of the amount of time it takes to process what I might want to say, I found writing it easier as I have the opportunity to edit and think about everything before I "publish" it, so to speak.

My most recent post was working as a temp for a doctor and while I would have loved to have been able to chat away about stuff (trust me I have a million questions most of the time) I was just not able to do more than respond to queries with affirmations and r eleven cues, but I did manage a way of communicating which was new and helpful and which the doc probably found, unique. I would just email her. Prior to email I left lot of sticky notes around the place with my work, everything had an addendum, a space where I could insert my personality or relay more detail about things I wouldn't have otherwise been able to do.

Yep, my colleagues raised the aspergers question a lot and admittedly I understand why but ironically, it's not like I could sit down and tell them this story. On one occasion two of my colleagues invited me out to lunch and as much as I tried to get out of it I couldn't wiggle an inch so we get to restaurant (real high end too) and as they are about to order I almost passed out and had to leave. I tried to explain how panic attacks work but really it just confirmed for them there was something "wrong" with me.

So it is that what I do now is what all of this brought me to and today I work for myself. I took my strengths, which ironically is in communications and coupled with my experience and began transcribing for doctors on a private basis. I work from home doing what I love and I'm good at it. Most of my communication is in the written form and that suits me fine. I hear their voices all the time, that's my job, listening to people talk and I actually do love it.

People may think youre arrogant, self centered or just plain rude for not being more "social" and left to their own devices will fill in the blanks for themselves. You could even be great at your job, you might even save a life but it won't make a difference if the people who are calling the shots don't know any better. Do your best with what you got and don't be so hard in yourself. I hope my post finds you in a better place.

doc11

Internet Ham wrote: »

My interests are none of your concern, nor really relevant to the discussion.

I rather like opposing views. I wouldn't know what I found intolerable without them. That is quite comforting. The tone of your response only further strengthens my initial statement, in my view at least. I would apologise that my view doesn't parallel yours but that would be dishonest.

As for being cool? I learned long ago you either have it or you don't and I have no shame in admitting, I don't got it.

Perhaps I am the one in need of change. I am willing to entertain that notion but I have been able to manage quite well up until now Doc and believe me, I have been tested in ways I doubt you could comprehend.

So you don't want to talk to colleagues about their interests, won't engage about your own and all while having some weird superiority complex. Taking pleasure in doing the opposite to everyone else and seem to love the outcast role. I'd say colleagues would take it as a test to work with someone with said attitude rather then the other way about.