A question about Gambling addiction

Dots1982

I know it is politically correct to be extremely understanding of all types of addiction but as a gambler myself there is something i don't understand about gambling addiction.

No one I know has got rich from gambling. People have had big wins but most of the time I think they have given it all back down through the years. Why in that case do people not realise it is a hobby that costs money rather than makes money?

I know some people are stupid and illogical and have no self control. But people like Oisin Mcconville are highly intelligent and come across as logical yet he nearly ruined his life with gambling.

This might come across as a bit superior but sometimes i think the gambling industry gets a bad rap because some punters can't accept YOU ARE NEVER GOING TO MAKE MONEY FROM GAMBLING.

MagicIRL

I'll bet you anything I'll make money from it...

not yet

Bet you a tenner you get no help here..

Red_Wake

Dots1982 wrote: »

This might come across as a bit superior but sometimes i think the gambling industry gets a bad rap because some punters can't accept YOU ARE NEVER GOING TO MAKE MONEY FROM GAMBLING.

The gambling industry are an absolute shower of bastards.

They deliberately target areas where people are less educated as these people are more likely to become problem gamblers. Compare how many bookies are in working class areas vs middle class areas.

They've ruined sport IMO, odds are constantly being shoved in your face by commentators, rather than discussing the game and the players. SSN discussing the odds various bookies offer is disgraceful.

whatismyname

Gambling addiction is rarely about making money.

The buzz. The release. The escapism. All kinds of things but making money .

And in the moment the person may even believe it's about making money, and they may even on some level be aware of the unlikelihood of making a return, and may even be aware that even if they did they'd probably blow it all anyway, but in the moment, even if they are aware of that on some level, it may not even matter, as they get so caught up in the buzz, excitement, the rush, the ways that it makes them feel good at the time.

luftmensch

Anyone who put money on Leicester City would disagree.

Kauto

Dots1982 wrote: »

I know it is politically correct to be extremely understanding of all types of addiction but as a gambler myself there is something i don't understand about gambling addiction.

No one I know has got rich from gambling. People have had big wins but most of the time I think they have given it all back down through the years. Why in that case do people not realise it is a hobby that costs money rather than makes money?

I know some people are stupid and illogical and have no self control. But people like Oisin Mcconville are highly intelligent and come across as logical yet he nearly ruined his life with gambling.

This might come across as a bit superior but sometimes i think the gambling industry gets a bad rap because some punters can't accept YOU ARE NEVER GOING TO MAKE MONEY FROM GAMBLING.

No you dont get rich from gambling but you can make a nice income to go along with your wage if you actually know what you are doing.
You see clowns in the shops everyday backing on these virtual things and by God it is depressing seeing them burning 2 and 3 euro a time.
The biggest bet i would have would be €200-€300 and i mainly back on horses. Very hard to get a bet online nowadays as they wont accept more than €20-€30 and you get restricted very quickly.
The Paddy Powers of this world are pure scum and target the vulnerable but once they deem you know what you are doing you wouldnt get 2 bananas to win a banana with them.

Tombi!

It's about the enjoyment of when you win.
I've spent maybe... 50 euro? At most over my entire lifetime gambling. I think I saw about 30 quid of it back.

But in a videogame one time, I ended up playing a minigame in it, it was a sort of "higher or lower" type game. You could bet ingame (so fake) money.
I started playing it. It was fun. Ended up playing it for around 6 hours straight.
It was just the excitement of when I won. That's all it is.

AnonoBoy

I'm pretty sure the OP doesn't really understand how addiction works.


Sure don't them heroin addicts know that heroin's bad for you?

osarusan

Bookies are sad places. I go there every now and then if I've an hour to kill. I can get a free cup of coffee in most of them, and they have live football on at weekends. And you might even win a few quid. A few means maybe 10 as I'll be betting 2 or 3 euro on a something like 4/1 shot. Even then, I'll choose a race that's at least 10 minutes away and spend that 10 minutes trying to inform myself even a little bit. If i lose that I don't bet again.

But the amount of people who bet without any study whatsoever, race after race, is just awful. Walk up to the newspaper pinned on the wall, choose a horse within seconds, place the bet, lose the bet, call the jockey a useless wanker and the trainer a c*nt, and then do it all over again for the next race. It's so sad.

Kauto wrote: »

You see clowns in the shops everyday backing on these virtual things and by God it is depressing seeing them burning 2 and 3 euro a time.

That virtual stuff is the saddest stuff of all.

not yet

Red_Wake wrote: »

The gambling industry are an absolute shower of bastards.

They deliberately target areas where people are less educated as these people are more likely to become problem gamblers. Compare how many bookies are in working class areas vs middle class areas.

They've ruined sport IMO, odds are constantly being shoved in your face by commentators, rather than discussing the game and the players. SSN discussing the odds various bookies offer is disgraceful.

The above, plus I hate the fcuking way they try to make it look inclusive with a bunch of guys out for the day having a ball. You can't watch a match on Sky anymore without some smug B rated actor telling you how simple it is to get the app etc..

It's is the most destructive thing in any working class community bar drugs..

jamesbere

If your smart with your gambling you can make money but only a small few do I think. Since online gambling came into existence gambling addiction has risen. Between sports, casino and bingo there's a wide variety of ways to get a person sucked in.

Dots1982

Kauto wrote: »

Dots1982 wrote: »

I know it is politically correct to be extremely understanding of all types of addiction but as a gambler myself there is something i don't understand about gambling addiction.

No one I know has got rich from gambling. People have had big wins but most of the time I think they have given it all back down through the years. Why in that case do people not realise it is a hobby that costs money rather than makes money?

I know some people are stupid and illogical and have no self control. But people like Oisin Mcconville are highly intelligent and come across as logical yet he nearly ruined his life with gambling.

This might come across as a bit superior but sometimes i think the gambling industry gets a bad rap because some punters can't accept YOU ARE NEVER GOING TO MAKE MONEY FROM GAMBLING.

No you dont get rich from gambling but you can make a nice income to go along with your wage if you actually know what you are doing.
You see clowns in the shops everyday backing on these virtual things and by God it is depressing seeing them burning 2 and 3 euro a time.
The biggest bet i would have would be 200- 300 and i mainly back on horses. Very hard to get a bet online nowadays as they wont accept more than 20- 30 and you get restricted very quickly.
The Paddy Powers of this world are pure scum and target the vulnerable but once they deem you know what you are doing you wouldnt 2 bananas to win a banana with them.

Perhaps you're right but there are professional tipsters in the racing post or on tipster websites like WeLoveBetting.com and I don't see any of them making money. They may break even. If you think you can money from gambling that supplements your income than good luck to you but it's damn difficult.

Kauto

Dots1982 wrote: »

Perhaps you're right but there are professional tipsters in the racing post or on tipster websites like WeLoveBetting.com and I don't see any of them making money. They may break even. If you think you can money from gambling that supplements your income than good luck to you but it's damn difficult.

Yes it is diffcult but its all about discipline(Which goes out the window from time to time).

Most of those 'Tipsters' in the racing post are columnists who couldn't pick their nose. If you wanted to back blindly they follow Garry O'Brien on Attheraces and you will make money year on year.

maudgonner

Kauto wrote: »

You see clowns in the shops everyday backing on these virtual things and by God it is depressing seeing them burning 2 and 3 euro a time.

Forgive my ignorance, this is the first time I've ever heard of virtual betting. I googled and it looks like betting on e.g. a fictional football game, basically a video game?

WTaF! How does it work? How can it be ensured that it's not rigged to make sure the team with the least bets wins? I have to be missing something? It's one of the most bizarre things I've seen in a long time, we've run out of things to bet on so now we're creating them electronically.

osarusan

maudgonner wrote: »

Forgive my ignorance, this is the first time I've ever heard of virtual betting. I googled and it looks like betting on e.g. a fictional football game, basically a video game?

"Virtual racing".

Computerised horse races from 'courses' with a name like Fakingham racecourse, timed to fill the 10-15 minute gap between actual races. There are also computerised car races and there even used to be football matches, but I haven't seen them in a while.

The logical monetising outcome of the ground-breaking conclusion that 'these people will bet on anything.'

Dots1982

AnonoBoy wrote: »

I'm pretty sure the OP doesn't really understand how addiction works.


Sure don't them heroin addicts know that heroin's bad for you?

If you think gambling and heroin addiction is the same then it is you who doesn't understand addiction in my opinion.

Kauto

osarusan wrote: »

"Virtual racing".

Computerised horse races from 'courses' with a name like Fakingham racecourse, timed to fill the 10-15 minute gap between actual races. There are also computerised car races and there even used to be football matches, but I haven't seen them in a while.

The big thing in Betting shops is now virtual roulette. I love gambling but i dont think i could ever back on something like that.
God help us if FOBTS ever come into Ireland like the UK. Fellas blowing £1,000 in 10 Mins on them. Nobody over there watches Horse racing in the shops its all FOBTS. They reckon FOBTS are more additive than Crack Cocaine.

Healio

Kauto wrote: »

The big thing in Betting shops is now virtual roulette. I love gambling but i dont think i could ever back on something like that.
God help us if FOBTS ever come into Ireland like the UK. Fellas blowing £1,000 in 10 Mins on them. Nobody over there watches Horse racing in the shops its all FOBTS. They reckon FOBTS are more additive than Crack Cocaine.

The roulette in irish shops is actually there because of the fobt ban, as it stands it is actually worse as in they cannot limit stakes to a max amount per spin.

AidySevenfold

Ladbrokes are slowly offering them and accept credit cards as payment in which is not good for some people.

I gamble but I know when enough is enough and its only football I'd back. Don't go near the horses, dogs, virtuals or whatever else. If you stick to the European leagues it's pretty simple to make a decent amount a week along with your wages.

maudgonner

I just don't understand how you can be certain it's not rigged? I mean there are plenty of stories about rigged roulette wheels, horses 'not trying' and games being thrown. Those are fairly hard to prove and can result in conviction.

But if the betting companies develop the virtual games themselves then it would be trivially easy to control the outcomes according to where the money has been placed?

Dots1982

Kauto wrote: »

Dots1982 wrote: »

Perhaps you're right but there are professional tipsters in the racing post or on tipster websites like WeLoveBetting.com and I don't see any of them making money. They may break even. If you think you can money from gambling that supplements your income than good luck to you but it's damn difficult.

Yes it is diffcult but its all about discipline(Which goes out the window from time to time).

Most of those 'Tipsters' in the racing post are columnists who couldn't pick their nose. If you wanted to back blindly they follow Garry O'Brien on Attheraces and you will make money year on year.

I'm a very disciplined gambler & I still make very little money. I think you probably need a sound mathetical model to make money or else just be a good picker. Fine being disciplined if you can't pick your nose...you'll only minimize your losses.

Kauto

maudgonner wrote: »

I just don't understand how you can be certain it's not rigged? I mean there are plenty of stories about rigged roulette wheels, horses 'not trying' and games being thrown. Those are fairly hard to prove and can result in conviction.

But if the betting companies develop the virtual games themselves then it would be trivially easy to control the outcomes according to where the money has been placed?

Most of the virtual games are not developed by the bookies but by another company. Hard to rig the result when the same race is been shown in all bookies shops and most of the bets are placed within 10-20 secs of the off time.

osarusan

maudgonner wrote: »

I just don't understand how you can be certain it's not rigged? I mean there are plenty of stories about rigged roulette wheels, horses 'not trying' and games being thrown. Those are fairly hard to prove and can result in conviction.

But if the betting companies develop the virtual games themselves then it would be trivially easy to control the outcomes according to where the money has been placed?

I think they're more likely to just programme it so that the favourite doesn't win that much, rather than having it react to betting patterns each time.

I've wondered about it myself. I'm assuming that the 12.53 from Fakingham shown in Paddy Powers in Limerick is the same race and outcome as the 12.53 shown in PP in Dublin.

To be honest, you don't even need to rig it in the way you suggested to make money from it, if you just don't have the favourite win all the time*.


*which is obviously rigging of a kind anyway.

Kauto

Dots1982 wrote: »

I'm a very disciplined gambler & I still make very little money. I think you probably need a sound mathetical model to make money or else just be a good picker. Fine being disciplined if you can't pick your nose...you'll only minimize your losses.

Very simple if you back a horse at 12/1 that you think should be 5/1m you will make money.

Will give you an example tonight in Kilbeggan 6.40. Call Me PJ is 14/1. He will be 7/1 or shorter come race time which is closer to this through odds. If you keep backing horses at longer prices than they should be you will make money.

Healio

maudgonner wrote: »

I just don't understand how you can be certain it's not rigged? I mean there are plenty of stories about rigged roulette wheels, horses 'not trying' and games being thrown. Those are fairly hard to prove and can result in conviction.

But if the betting companies develop the virtual games themselves then it would be trivially easy to control the outcomes according to where the money has been placed?

You do not need to rig a roulette wheel, if you are a bookmaker, there is negative expected value on every bet the player does.

maudgonner

Kauto wrote: »

Most of the virtual games are not developed by the bookies but by another company. Hard to rig the result when the same race is been shown in all bookies shops and most of the bets are placed within 10-20 secs of the off time.

I dunno, they wouldn't have to rig the race before the post time though - the'd have the duration of the race to process the bets too. As long as they have access to the data about the bets being placed I don't see how it couldn't be done.

As Osarusan said though, it would probably just be easier to make sure the favourite doesn't win too often.

Of course The Sting is one of my favourite films, so I might just be reading too much into this

maudgonner

Healio wrote: »

You do not need to rig a roulette wheel, if you are a bookmaker, there is negative expected value on every bet the player does.

Yes, but if you rig it you can increase that. I get your point, but rigging outcomes will always make the bookie more money.

Dots1982

Kauto wrote: »

Dots1982 wrote: »

I'm a very disciplined gambler & I still make very little money. I think you probably need a sound mathetical model to make money or else just be a good picker. Fine being disciplined if you can't pick your nose...you'll only minimize your losses.

Very simple if you back a horse at 12/1 that you think should be 5/1m you will make money.

Will give you an example tonight in Kilbeggan 6.40. Call Me PJ is 14/1. He will be 7/1 or shorter come race time which is closer to this through odds. If you keep backing horses at longer prices than they should be you will make money.

Not really a horsey man but a bet's a bet so thanks for the tip.

DrumSteve

I'd love to be able to watch a match without seeing Ray F*cking Winstone trying to get me to gamble away my wages like some proper facking nawty geezer.

**** off Ray.

The Backwards Man

I have the world's only foolproof gambling system, and setting as it's a lovely sunny day I'll share it with you all free of charge.


1. Develop a deep seated pathological hatred of football teams/horse trainers/tennis players

2. Back them to win in every event they take part in.

3. Profit/Satisfaction

byronbay2

osarusan wrote: »

"Virtual racing".

Computerised horse races from 'courses' with a name like Fakingham racecourse, timed to fill the 10-15 minute gap between actual races. There are also computerised car races and there even used to be football matches, but I haven't seen them in a while.

The logical monetising outcome of the ground-breaking conclusion that 'these people will bet on anything.'

That's how you spot the addicts - they're the ones gambling on virtual racing. Invented by the bookies to take the addict's money off him quicker. Obviously, a compulsive gambler will lose all his money anyway, but the bookies didn't want them leaving the shop during periods when there was no horse/dog racing on so they created virtual sports that run every few minutes and last for a very short time - 30 seconds or so.

Compulsive gambling is a very complex and insidious addiction and is most certainly not a function of intelligence (or lack thereof). Visit a rehab centre (Cuan Mhuire or others) and you will see people getting residential treatment from all strata of society. BTW, the treatment programme for gambling addiction is longer than that for alcoholism. There are a minimum of 40,000 problem gamblers in Ireland so anyone who gambles on a reasonably regular basis will be rubbing shoulders with compulsive gamblers all the time. As I say, they're generally pretty easy to spot in a bookies. The problem is that most compulsive gamblers never set foot in a bookies shop.

BorneTobyWilde

The buzz?
The buzz in losing. I hate to lose, I want to win.
I like to win big. Played an accumulator Wednesday 4 horses decent prices to return 50k roughly, two win. I lose again!
Putting on 25 to win 25 on and even money shot, pointless. Most bets I play I play for huge return, one day I'll hit it or not...
I can't recall last time I picked a ''single'' winner. Longest losing streak ever.

LionelNashe

maudgonner wrote: »

Yes, but if you rig it you can increase that. I get your point, but rigging outcomes will always make the bookie more money.

I don't think so - the bookie's goal is to fleece the punter, not skin him. Ideally the punter will win sometimes so that he can fool himself into thinking that he's ahead, or that he has the chance of getting ahead, and then the bookie has a customer for life and gains more in the long run.

maudgonner

LionelNashe wrote: »

I don't think so - the bookie's goal is to fleece the punter, not skin him. Ideally the punter will win sometimes so that he can fool himself into thinking that he's ahead, or that he has the chance of getting ahead, and then the bookie has a customer for life and gains more in the long run.

True, but rigging something does not mean that you set it to always lose. You can control the outcomes however you want - let the punter win as much or as little as you want. Even decide who wins and who loses if you've got fine-grained enough control.

cowboyBuilder

osarusan wrote: »

That virtual stuff is the saddest stuff of all.

Originally Posted by Kauto
You see clowns in the shops everyday backing on these virtual things and by God it is depressing seeing them burning 2 and 3 euro a time.





What virtual stuff ?

valoren

Dots1982 wrote: »

If you think gambling and heroin addiction is the same then it is you who doesn't understand addiction in my opinion.

Addiction has the potential to destroy a persons life irregardless of the means or devices that they need to feed their addiction.

osarusan

cowboyBuilder wrote: »

What virtual stuff ?

Like I said earlier:

"Virtual racing".

Computerised horse races from 'courses' with a name like Fakingham racecourse, timed to fill the 10-15 minute gap between actual races. There are also computerised car races and there even used to be football matches, but I haven't seen them in a while.

Olishi4

I know an old man who goes to bet at the dogs a lot. He doesn't gamble much money. He has friends that he meets there. It is a hobby for him.

I suppose you might get the same in a betting shop. Discussing the odds with other gamblers and things like that. It's a game.

I agree it can be a hobby for some people and no issue. It's just when someone is addicted, the consequences can be very bad.

Lavinia

whatismyname wrote: »

Gambling addiction is rarely about making money.
The buzz. The release. The escapism. All kinds of things but making money .

^^^
This.
Summarizes it all.

Radharc na Sleibhte

I'm no nanny state lover but all these ads on tv for betting can't go on.
Especially during football or any sporting broadcast.
And it's so easy now to just take out your phone and one touch betting or tap tap boom as the ads themselves say.
I would say it's rife.
People who wouldn't really bet regularly do so I can only imagine how much some people are wasting.

diomed

I deposited €50 on Betfair earlier in the year. Profit the last time I looked was €6,432.40 and it has improved slightly since.

Gambling is an addiction if you are losing.
You need to work at it.

valoren

Can't beat them? Join them.

Buy shares in the Bookies that are listed \O/

Dolla...Dolla!

seamus

jamesbere wrote: »

If your smart with your gambling you can make money but only a small few do I think. Since online gambling came into existence gambling addiction has risen. Between sports, casino and bingo there's a wide variety of ways to get a person sucked in.

It depends on what you call "gambling".

There are many people who would call playing poker "gambling" just like betting on horses, but it's not really.

In poker and most similar card games, skill is a key element. Sure, there's an element of chance in terms of the cards that come up, but a skilled poker player with a poor hand can annihilate a novice who's holding a full house. So it's not really "gambling", it's a game of skill. And this is why people can make a living out of it.

Some would argue that the same applies to betting on horse racing and such. That you can study the form and make educated choices in order to make good money.

And that's true to a point. However the bookies stack everything in their favour. The bookies play the game against you and limit the size of your potential win based on your likelihood of winning.

It's like playing a game of poker where the size of the pot is inversely proportional to how good your hand is. That is, when you have a good hand, the pot is kept small. When you have a poor hand, the pot is bigger.

You're being set up to lose from the start.

The only people who win big on gambling are the bookies and the trainers. Between the rewards they get from gamblers and the government, they're practically printing money.

diomed

seamus
I don't bet with bookies. I bet with Betfair and in big events you can bet as much as you like.
A tip for gamblers - if you fancy something and the odds are large increase your bet. Most do the opposite: they bet big on favourites, and bet small on outsiders.

diomed

seamus wrote: »

a skilled poker player with a poor hand can annihilate a novice who's holding a full house

Is this true? :pac:
I've played a lot of poker and never seen that.

seamus

diomed wrote: »

Is this true? :pac:
I've played a lot of poker and never seen that.

The skilled player would never show his hand after his opponent folded, so how would you know? :pac:

diomed

diomed wrote: »

Is this true? :pac:
I've played a lot of poker and never seen that.

Not really.. The player has to be a bit better than a novice to get scared of higher full houses / quads and fold. A complete novice will get excited and put all his money in.

diomed

seamus wrote: »

The skilled player would never show his hand after his opponent folded, so how would you know? :pac:

Why is the player with the full house going to fold?
The only interesting fold I head about was by an Irish rugby international.
The Texas Hold 'Em board had quads and an ace. The other player went all in and the rugby guy folded.

If that is the level of novice your ideas might work. Or if it obvious that a higher hand might be out e.g. JJJ on the board and the novice has pocket 22.
In most other cases your "skilled player" is handing his chips over to the novice.

endabob1

Dots1982 wrote: »

I know it is politically correct to be extremely understanding of all types of addiction but as a gambler myself there is something i don't understand about gambling addiction.

No one I know has got rich from gambling. People have had big wins but most of the time I think they have given it all back down through the years. Why in that case do people not realise it is a hobby that costs money rather than makes money?

I know some people are stupid and illogical and have no self control. But people like Oisin Mcconville are highly intelligent and come across as logical yet he nearly ruined his life with gambling.

This might come across as a bit superior but sometimes i think the gambling industry gets a bad rap because some punters can't accept YOU ARE NEVER GOING TO MAKE MONEY FROM GAMBLING.

I know people who make their living from it, I know a professional black jack player, divides his time between Scandinavia, London & the States. Interesting and fiercely intelligent guy, only plays black jack, to him it's a job, he is just very good at working out the statistics of it all, very quickly.

I have a good friend who bets seriously on horse racing, he's a member of ascot and epsom, only bets (seriously) on flat racing and I have personally seen lose a truck load of money (£5k) on Gallileo (if anyone remembers the horse) when it lost for the first time. He reckoned it was in the best 3 horses he'd ever seen and thought it was unbeatable. That said i know because I seen the slips, he had won much more on him earlier in the season at both Irish & English Derby's. I've been racing a few times with this guy and he is very disciplined, keeps a record of everything and has always made money on it. He has a proper job so doesn't do it professionally, but he's been doing it for 30 years, he knows what he is doing.

The problem is that these guys are the exception, people think they can be like them but the reality is that unless you are super intelligent, have nerves of steel and practice non-stop you will never be a professional card player. Unless you study horse racing, know how horses are bred, know their bloodlines and what ground it's good on, distance it's suited to, know what the trainers are like etc.... you are just a mug punter.
I am a mug punter, i'll stick a couple of bob on horse races, knowing very little, but it's fun for me 2 or 3 quid, i'll have a wager on the golf, same thing, to me it's fun and adds some interest.

endabob1

endabob1 wrote: »

I know people who make their living from it, I know a professional black jack player, divides his time between Scandinavia, London & the States. Interesting and fiercely intelligent guy, only plays black jack, to him it's a job, he is just very good at working out the statistics of it all, very quickly.

I have a good friend who bets seriously on horse racing, he's a member of ascot and epsom, only bets (seriously) on flat racing and I have personally seen lose a truck load of money (£5k) on Gallileo (if anyone remembers the horse) when it lost for the first time. He reckoned it was in the best 3 horses he'd ever seen and thought it was unbeatable. That said i know because I seen the slips, he had won much more on him earlier in the season at both Irish & English Derby's. I've been racing a few times with this guy and he is very disciplined, keeps a record of everything and has always made money on it. He has a proper job so doesn't do it professionally, but he's been doing it for 30 years, he knows what he is doing.

The problem is that these guys are the exception, people think they can be like them but the reality is that unless you are super intelligent, have nerves of steel and practice non-stop you will never be a professional card player. Unless you study horse racing, know how horses are bred, know their bloodlines and what ground it's good on, distance it's suited to, know what the trainers are like etc.... you are just a mug punter.
I am a mug punter, i'll stick a couple of bob on horse races, knowing very little, but it's fun for me 2 or 3 quid, i'll have a wager on the golf, same thing, to me it's fun and adds some interest.

My brother is a professional poker player. Has been for about five years after leaving a very good job. He only plays live games so he lives where there are good games on.

He treats it like a job. Does about forty hours a week usually and has a great lifestyle. I couldn't do it though. I watched him get burnt badly on a one outer in a huge pot. I felt worse than he did because to him, it's just chips.