Caught breaking a Red today

bingobars

So I caught a fine today for cycling through a red. #15 in Cork since they came in I was told.

I stopped on the light, picked up and cruised through when the Pedestrian light came on. This is the habit I was most inclined to as I'm not one to flirt with traffic.

Sorry for giving the community a bad name


So if I tidy up my game, what's the view on these scenarios/actions going forward?


-Lights where the sensors don't pick up cyclists (pre 7.30 this can be time consuming)

-Dismounting and running/walking when the Ped lights come on then remounting (Ethical?Legal?)

-Dismounting for those tiny left turns on Red and then remounting (Legal?)


I love riding my bike and id like to begin doing it in a way that is sustainable, safer but makes sense and promotes the activity/method of transport in the better way.


I have a good sample size on my daily commute and it averaged around 32mins each way over 12km and 12 sets of major lights and some questionable moves, maybe if there is interest ill post some updates on how it changes playing it by the book going forward.

Thoughts?

Stheno

bingobars wrote: »

So I caught a fine today for cycling through a red. #15 in Cork since they came in I was told.

I stopped on the light, picked up and cruised through when the Pedestrian light came on. This is the habit I was most inclined to as I'm not one to flirt with traffic.

Sorry for giving the community a bad name


So if I tidy up my game, what's the view on these scenarios/actions going forward?


-Lights where the sensors don't pick up cyclists (pre 7.30 this can be time consuming)

-Dismounting and running/walking when the Ped lights come on then remounting (Ethical?Legal?)

-Dismounting for those tiny left turns on Red and then remounting (Legal?)


I love riding my bike and id like to begin doing it in a way that is sustainable, safer but makes sense and promotes the activity/method of transport in the better way.


I have a good sample size on my daily commute and it averaged around 32mins each way over 12km and 12 sets of major lights and some questionable moves, maybe if there is interest ill post some updates on how it changes playing it by the book going forward.

Thoughts?

Was it a pedestrian crossing or a multiway junction?

bazermc

Pedestrians are traffic.

bingobars

4 way junction

I'm not questioning what happened here, I was in the wrong but I could have dismounted and crossed with the green man bike in hand. Or is the better thing to do just hang out with the drivers for the 90 seconds on so until the lights come back to our side?

Lusk_Doyle

OP is this you?

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=99699454&postcount=3067

bingobars

Good find, yes. Thats BS the part about the traffic tho

CramCycle

bingobars wrote: »

Or is the better thing to do just hang out with the drivers for the 90 seconds on so until the lights come back to our side?

This is the better thing.

lennymc

Or just don't get caught...

Grudaire

lennymc wrote: »

Or just don't get caught...

If you're not on the ball enough to spot the Garda.. you mightn't see a pedestrian.

CramCycle

lennymc wrote: »

Or just don't get caught...

I remember when they started clamping down on cyclists awhile back, the number who got caught going through the T junction of Georges St and Dame St. with a clear line of sight was ridiculous. The Garda were not even hiding. If your paying that little attention, you deserve to get caught.

bingobars

Unmarked car in my defense, pedestrians were only on the opposite side of the junction. I waited until they were crossing before moving from my mark

Eamonnator

Lusk_Doyle wrote: »

OP is this you?

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=99699454&postcount=3067

Some of the comments on that are very complimentary!

Aint Eazy Being Cheezy

I swear I'm not trolling. But as a motorist who's sick of having to dodge cyclists who have total disregard for traffic lights (mostly couriers) all I can say is.. delighted for ya! :P

You've the right attitude mind you, take it on the chin and find a better way of doing things.

ted1

bingobars wrote: »

Good find, yes. Thats BS the part about the traffic tho

Well if it is contact your solicitor and bring a defamation case, or we'll go with the Gardai version

ted1

sugarman wrote: »

Coming from someone who drives (and hasnt cycled a bike since about the age of 10!)

...Id nearly always prefer if the bike in this case went through the pedestrian lights if they were clear to get out my way when moving off from the lights.

That's what I do ,if there is no pedestrian at pedestrians Lights and no junction then it's fair game , makes it safer as you get a head start on the trucks , busses, vans, cars etc and you can get a good line.

pelevin

Obedient soulless little robots. That's what they want us to be, Ted.

daheff

bingobars wrote: »

Good find, yes. Thats BS the part about the traffic tho

If you could prove the BS part about traffic then you'd have an open & shut case for liable. If the garda publish that post they'd want to be 100% on their facts.


Fair play though to you for admitting your faults and looking to change for the better.

KOR101

Approach Red Light, get off saddle, and free wheel across on one pedal. Did it once with Guard on motorbike right at lights. He ignored me.

magicbastarder

daheff wrote: »

If you could prove the BS part about traffic then you'd have an open & shut case for liable.

libel only applies if the cyclist is clearly identifiable. the gardai know this.

eeguy

KOR101 wrote: »

Approach Red Light, get off saddle, and free wheel across on one pedal. Did it once with Guard on motorbike right at lights. He ignored me.

Maybe he just didn't care?

bingobars

sugarman wrote: »

Coming from someone who drives (and hasnt cycled a bike since about the age of 10!)

...Id nearly always prefer if the bike in this case went through the pedestrian lights if they were clear to get out my way when moving off from the lights.

That's my logic. I hate having cars on my tail at the lights

stoplooklisten

That's a lot of mounting, dismounting, being a cyclist, being a pedestrian...

Leave 5 mins earlier and stay in the proper traiffic and light signals

uck51js9zml2yt

pelevin wrote: »

Obedient soulless little robots. That's what they want us to be, Ted.

I might be way off here....but perhaps they want us to be law abiding citizens......I'm probably way off though;)

bingobars

ted1 wrote: »

Well if it is contact your solicitor and bring a defamation case, or we'll go with the Gardai version

Their version makes it out like it was a kamikaze move on my behalf. I'm not fussed if they have their moment of glory on Twitter to be honest. He mentioned the Dublin guards were giving them heat about not stopping enough in Cork.

I'll keep an eye on Twitter, the next guy who mounts a curb might be akin to Evel Kenivel in the account

pelevin

Tripp Wet Standby wrote: »

I might be way off here....but perhaps they want us to be law abiding citizens......I'm probably way off though;)

Like I said - obedient little robots. Put the word "Law" in front of them & they bow down happily before holy writ. There's huge gradations so I'm just talking in general here, not of course remotely saying the law is somehow without basis. Though take for example a pedestrian crossing a quiet street though the light is against him. . . . No, no. Be a good law abiding citizen. Wait till the light tells you you can go.

Part of being Irish is we're not as naturally servile beneath authority as perhaps some others, & it's not necessarily a positive healthy thing for one's character to so easily equate to being "law abiding citizens" in all situations.

NiallBoo

KOR101 wrote: »

Approach Red Light, get off saddle, and free wheel across on one pedal. Did it once with Guard on motorbike right at lights. He ignored me.

That's still cycling as far as this is concerned.

Discounting and walking as suggested earlier is perfectly legal.

DakarVert

KOR101 wrote: »

Approach Red Light, get off saddle, and free wheel across on one pedal. Did it once with Guard on motorbike right at lights. He ignored me.

Yup I do this.... Roll up to red light, Get out push car through the light and then hop in and take off again.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=zIWxzhGI0jQ

ted1

magicbastarder wrote: »

libel only applies if the cyclist is clearly identifiable. the gardai know this.

And he has being identified..

KOR101

DakarVert wrote: »

Yup I do this.... Roll up to red light, Get out push car through the light and then hop in and take off again.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=zIWxzhGI0jQ

Oh man. :pac::pac::pac::pac::pac::pac::pac:

2RockMountain

Aint Eazy Being Cheezy wrote: »

I swear I'm not trolling. But as a motorist who's sick of having to dodge cyclists who have total disregard for traffic lights (mostly couriers) all I can say is.. delighted for ya! :P
.

Do you ever find yourself having to dodge the drivers who show total disregard for traffic lights, the ones who scoot through in the 5 or 10 or 20 seconds after the light changes red.

NiallBoo

bingobars wrote: »

I'm not one to flirt with traffic.

Ah sure you never really need to flirt with it.

Play hard-to-get and let them do all the chasing.

Just remember to make them wait a bit before you give them the ride and leave a few days before calling.

Beasty

2RockMountain wrote: »

Do you ever find yourself having to dodge the drivers who show total disregard for traffic lights, the ones who scoot through in the 5 or 10 or 20 seconds after the light changes red.

Think you'll find there's a hell of a lot more motorists done for breaking red lights than cyclists

eeguy

How does an on the spot fine work exactly?

HivemindXX

Beasty wrote: »

2RockMountain wrote: »

Do you ever find yourself having to dodge the drivers who show total disregard for traffic lights, the ones who scoot through in the 5 or 10 or 20 seconds after the light changes red.

Think you'll find there's a hell of a lot more motorists done for breaking red lights than cyclists

I was doubtful of this since I see drivers breaking red lights every day. However the RSAs Penalty Point stats back you up. Apparently around 10-15k per month. That's despite being tested and insured and having registration plates.

omri

I have to say that I see so many cyclist jumping red. It's sad, it's stupid and its just giving us a bad name. Today alone I've seen it happening at least 6 times between monkstown - ballsbridge. Sadly no Gardai around to fine these cyclists.

eeguy

omri wrote: »

I have to say that I see so many cyclist jumping red. It's sad, it's stupid and its just giving us a bad name. Today alone I've seen it happening at least 6 times between monkstown - ballsbridge. Sadly no Gardai around to fine these cyclists.

I know it's illegal, but there's difference between a car and cyclist breaking a light is much greater than a cyclist and pedestrian breaking a light.

ted1

omri wrote: »

I have to say that I see so many cyclist jumping red. It's sad, it's stupid and its just giving us a bad name. Today alone I've seen it happening at least 6 times between monkstown - ballsbridge. Sadly no Gardai around to fine these cyclists.

What kind of lights were they ? Cross roads are a no no, straight through on a bike lane at a T junction?
With proper off road cycle lanes there would be no need for traffic lights unless it's through a cross road

Beasty

HivemindXX wrote: »

I was doubtful of this since I see drivers breaking red lights every day. However the RSAs Penalty Point stats back you up. Apparently around 10-15k per month. That's despite being tested and insured and having registration plates.

Was looking at those stats myself before posting. Despite what it says they must be 12 month rolling figures, otherwise there would be running at 750k FPNs a month or 9 million a year across all driving offences!

However 12,000 for breaking red lights in a year is still around a ratio of 10:1 against the number of FPNs issued to cyclists for all offences.

omri

ted1 wrote: »

What kind of lights were they ? Cross roads are a no no, straight through on a bike lane at a T junction?
With proper off road cycle lanes there would be no need for traffic lights unless it's through a cross road

Few Ts some +s. If there is no off road bike lanes why is there a presumption it's ok in some cases or under certain conditions. Then any car should be allowed to do the same. And then you have all the smart comments from the O'Leary etc. Having said that I nearly got smacked I by a car turning left he kind of seen the guy in front of me but didn't me on my big red with kid in it.

Either way it only costs cyclists and drivers couple of seconds, don't see why the rush.

P.S. Also came across very nice bus driver who didn't rush past me and waited till I cross the roadworks while few cars zoomed right next to me. So there is still hope and good folks out there.

CramCycle

eeguy wrote: »

How does an on the spot fine work exactly?

Ironically by not paying it on the spot. You have 28 days to pay it from the date it is recieved, non payment increases it to a higher fine , non payment of that results in a court date and a potentially 2000euro fine.

eeguy

CramCycle wrote: »

Ironically by not paying it on the spot. You have 28 days to pay it from the date it is recieved, non payment increases it to a higher fine , non payment of that results in a court date and a potentially 2000euro fine.

How do they know you are who you say you are?

If I'm stopped on the street with no ID, can't I just make up an identity and who's to know?

CramCycle

eeguy wrote: »

How do they know you are who you say you are?

If I'm stopped on the street with no ID, can't I just make up an identity and who's to know?

If a Garda believes you are lying and you are unable to show otherwise they can sieze your bike AFAIK

Deathwish4

Nice calves OP

Att vara en hest

Every day on my way to work I come up to a high traffic 4-way crossing where I need to make a right turn. I really don't like having cars on my rear so what I do is I go off the road and wait for the 'green man'. I then bike across the crossing.

I've done this for over a year and I see a lot of other people do it too. It just feels safer than standing at the crossing with the cars, the crossing has a lot of buses, trucks etc too and what I worry about the most is ending up in the blind spot.

From this thread, I take it that what I am doing is illegal? If so I guess I'll start getting off the bike and walking across instead...

Anyways, sucks for you OP. Want to share what car they were driving so that I can be on the lookout? :-P

irishrover99

https://www.facebook.com/selfieonbike/videos/1271915262824332/

I like to do this when the sun is out

laraghrider

omri wrote: »

I have to say that I see so many cyclist jumping red. It's sad, it's stupid and its just giving us a bad name. Today alone I've seen it happening at least 6 times between monkstown - ballsbridge. Sadly no Gardai around to fine these cyclists.

I see this as natural selection. The cyclists that break red lights consistently are going to misjudge it one day and end up under a car. Personally I obey the lights as my goal is to get into work, do my job and get home safely to my wife and kids. If lights hold me up for an additional 5 mins either way then so what.

ted1

omri wrote: »

Few Ts some +s. If there is no off road bike lanes why is there a presumption it's ok in some cases or under certain conditions. Then any car should be allowed to do the same.

If there is a cycle lane then you are in at the side of the road going straight and cars that are turning to go in the same direction as you are not allowed into the cycle lane . cars going through the lights at the same junction will meet cars that are turning.

jive

Att vara en hest wrote: »

Every day on my way to work I come up to a high traffic 4-way crossing where I need to make a right turn. I really don't like having cars on my rear so what I do is I go off the road and wait for the 'green man'. I then bike across the crossing.

I've done this for over a year and I see a lot of other people do it too. It just feels safer than standing at the crossing with the cars, the crossing has a lot of buses, trucks etc too and what I worry about the most is ending up in the blind spot.

From this thread, I take it that what I am doing is illegal? If so I guess I'll start getting off the bike and walking across instead...

I do the same thing every day. Nobody will fine you for that. In theory you should dismount though, yes. Personally it's a lesser evil to cycle across on a green man than trying to navigate across 3 lanes of traffic on a 60kmph road (where the cars probably average 80 unless traffic is heavy!).

seamus

jive wrote: »

Personally it's a lesser evil to cycle across on a green man than trying to navigate across 3 lanes of traffic on a 60kmph road (where the cars probably average 80 unless traffic is heavy!).

At a higher level, probably not. When you propose breaking a red light where you might come into conflict with vehicles, you take the burden of care onto yourself - these are bigger vehicles who will kill you if they hit you.

When a cyclist goes through a green ped light, they don't take as much caution, they shift the burden of care onto the pedestrians, expecting pedestrians to slow down or change course to go around them.

You will very rarely see a cyclist come into actual conflict with a car when they break a red. But you'll often see them forcing their way through a stream of pedestrians or squeezing right past them.

Sure, the outcome of an impact is likely to be far less catastrophic, but that doesn't mean it's a "lesser evil" on the road if it results in far more incidents as a whole.

eeguy

seamus wrote: »

Sure, the outcome of an impact is likely to be far less catastrophic, but that doesn't mean it's a "lesser evil" on the road if it results in far more incidents as a whole.

It's all about timing.

Fian

KOR101 wrote: »

Approach Red Light, get off saddle, and free wheel across on one pedal. Did it once with Guard on motorbike right at lights. He ignored me.

I wsa stopped at a junction with a motorbike garda pulled up beside me. T junction, i was turning left, onto a one way street (Baggot Street), the inside lane of the traffic coming from stephen's green is left turn only down to merrion square, traffic tends to be stopped there with a red for the left turn, for the beginning of teh sequence.

Generally it is safest to turn left ahead of teh traffic there, subject of course to pedestrians crossing the junction (of which there can be many)

Anyway i drew up beside the Garda and waited. Then I decided to ask him if Ii would find myself in trouble for turning left on the red. "I very much doubt I would notice you doing it". Off I went.

Sensible Garda, who knew it would cause no inconvenience to other traffic and would be safer in fact for all concerned for me to get through the junction ahead of the lights rather than competing with all the cars who also want to turn left onto baggot street.