Lough Cutra Spectator Fee

BTH

Has anyone else seen this on a recent email from Castle Triathlon Series in relation to the Lough Cutra race?

This is the most expensive sprint in Ireland, the most expensive Olympic in Ireland, the most expensive half outside of IM Dublin, and they are trying to gouge yet more money out of competitors.

I'm sorry I've given these guys any of my money now and I certainly wont ever be going back to them. I also wont be bringing anyone along to support me even if they wanted to come. Should have just done a half IM training day on the Tri an Mhi course. Even the triathlon at the London Olympics was free to spectate!!!!! Disgraceful.

Spectator fee - €5 per adult / €3 per child

Spectators are well looked after as you take part in your race. With unique access to the stunning private estate of Lough Cutra Castle and a bumper event village including entertainment, live music and yummy food, this event offers the well earned reputation as an atmospheric triathlon festival.

There is nominal spectator fee, to be paid in cash on arrival, with all funds being ploughed back in to the improvement of the estate for triathletes.

Please note: Competitors and campers go free and child participants (8-15yrs) can bring an adult for free.

MalDoc

I thought it was poor form alright. Full price for the Gauntlet was what €160...
Not exactly cheap.

joey100

That's mental, hopefully not a sign of things to come in other races.

Kurt_Godel

Wow. This will be my 3rd time doing Cutra (also entered 2 kids and 2 nights camping, total cost €162), not exactly cheap but I went in eyes open. They put on a decent race, but charging spectators is not something I want to support, I'll give it a miss next year.

sconhome

Kurt_Godel wrote: »

They put on a decent race, but charging spectators is not something I want to support, I'll give it a miss next year.

News to me too. Not happy.

Kurt_Godel

Under Travel & Accomodation as advertised, spectators are free.

Access to the Castle, Gardens and Parking
Access to the Estate grounds is free for spectators. The Castle is a private residence but the stunning gardens will be open to the public. There will be parking within the Estate grounds. There is no charge to park however a donation towards our local charity will be much appreciated

This new fee is money-gouging, pure and simple.

tunney

I remember a race 10 years ago, a big one, that my wife helped out at. They charged her for a cup of tea. She has never helped at a race since.

Lough Cutra should get no money from a boardsie again - and it should be tabled at the TI agm that races that charge for watching cannot be NS/NC. Also a max deviation from the average price should also be included.

tunney

Let the sponsors know what they are being associated with.

mossym

crazy.have done it the last 2 years but not racing this year had considered going up with my neighbour as he is racing, not a hope of that now, not about the amount but the principle

sconhome

tunney wrote: »

Let the sponsors know what they are being associated with.

I'm stunned by this move.

The whole reason why I became involved with LC was because the event is very progressive, yes expensive, but always seemed to work hard to bring value to the race and to always develop in response to athlete feedback.

There has also a lot of work going on in the background which I have been privy to with regard growing & developing the sport in Ireland directly (rather than as an offshoot of the UK) which impressed me.

This move to charge spectators at a family focused event is completely at odds with what I expected from the event organisers.

Doesn't sit right with me at all

rowr

It's a TI Nat series race, let them sort it out, strip the race of Nat series next year

Wonder will they have coin operated portaloos there

griffin100

It's creeping in from other events - it's €10 to spectate at the Tough Mudder race, you have to pay for parking and you are not allowed to bring food into the venue, you must purchase it on site. That's after paying over €100 to run around an obstacle course.

The only way to stop this is by boycotting these sorts of events and hitting these guys in the pockets.

rodneyr1981

For a race struggling to get volunteers this year they are hardly endearing themselves to the public with that move.
What % of their intake would they expect this to generate compared to the 1200 entrant's? It will be well off the loss due to lower number of entrants in 2017.

RacoonQueen

No chance I'd be paying in to watch. What a load of rubbish...I wonder is it the estate owners applying the charge or the race organisers themselves.

davedanon

griffin100 wrote: »

It's creeping in from other events - it's €10 to spectate at the Tough Mudder race, you have to pay for parking and you are not allowed to bring food into the venue, you must purchase it on site. That's after paying over €100 to run around an obstacle course.

to be fair, TM, H&B etc are novelty events, not proper athletic races. Anyone prepared to pay for parking AND €10 to 'spectate' wants their effing head examined.

Herc

I had reluctantly entered this as a build to Challenge Galway but absolutely disgusted by this move - wife and kids had planned to travel but out of principle I will be advising them to stay at home and under no circumstances will I be entering this event again. I know this is backed 100% by the 15 odd other member of my club who unfortunately entered and will not be entering again. They can admit their mistake now if they want and remove the fee or live with the bad-will this will cause in the Tri community.

joey100

This seems to be on both Lough Cutra and TI facebook pages now, good to see plenty of people getting onto them about it. No response yet from either that I can see. I'm not doing the race and had never done it but no chance I'd even look at it now, if they keep the spectator charge or not.

Kurt_Godel

Kurt_Godel wrote: »

Under Travel & Accomodation as advertised, spectators are free.

This new fee is money-gouging, pure and simple.

Ha, they've just changed this blurb to

For access to the Estate grounds there is a small charge for spectators (€5 adult, €3 child). The Castle is a private residence but the stunning gardens will be open to the public. There will be parking within the Estate grounds. Please follow the race day parking signs for “Triathlon Car Park” via a service road to access the estate. The main drive will be used for the cycle route section of the race.

Didn't respond to queries about why they were changing what they advertised, either.

A while back Huff&Puff was berating TI for granting the for-profit Castle Series NS ranking, at the expense of club races, his basic point was it being the thin edge of the wedge. How right he was.

sconhome

Posted on Facebook in reply to one of the comments about the spectator fee:

Thank you for making contact Barry and so sorry to hear that you are disappointed. We are a small team driven to deliver a wonderful event enjoyed by all. We do not want anyone to be disappointed and appreciate all the supporters who come along and add to the atmosphere. We want to put on a festival event where everyone can have a wonderful day out and enjoy the event village entertainment.

I appreciate that additional costs this year are not welcome but ask for your understanding that we would not do this unless necessary. I can assure you that the exercise is not commercial, but all money is ploughed back into the venue and used to clear the lake and grounds for the triathlon next year so we can keep improving standards.

I am sure you appreciate the cost of hiring such a unique venue in the first place is not minimal. This allows us to offer something exceptional and different to other triathlons. We have unrivalled access to a really wonderful private venue and grounds and with that comes a slight premium.

I hope this explanation helps fill in the gaps.

I do know it is a small team and that the venue is not cheap. Improvements are being made year on year.

tunney

sconhome wrote: »

Posted on Facebook in reply to one of the comments about the spectator fee:



I do know it is a small team and that the venue is not cheap. Improvements are being made year on year.

B0ll0cks Sean. Pure b0ll0cks. If with the extortionate entry fee they cannot cover costs, future investment and make some profit they are incompetent.

more likely "lets milk the bucket listing cow".

A concerted effort to kill this race off from the tri community is required.

joey100

I wonder how much money they made the last 2 years this race has been on? As a commercial race if they didn't make any money they wouldn't be putting it on this year, Just stinks of a way to get money out of people. Like has already been said it's not exactly a cheap race either, nor are the roads closed. I've never done the race but have done club run races for less money, that had a festival/family atmosphere, had closed roads for the bike and were held in nice venues. All without charging the price of Cutra, with smaller entrant numbers and no charge for spectators.

tunney

joey100 wrote: »

I wonder how much money they made the last 2 years this race has been on? As a commercial race if they didn't make any money they wouldn't be putting it on this year, Just stinks of a way to get money out of people. Like has already been said it's not exactly a cheap race either, nor are the roads closed. I've never done the race but have done club run races for less money, that had a festival/family atmosphere, had closed roads for the bike and were held in nice venues. All without charging the price of Cutra, with smaller entrant numbers and no charge for spectators.

The golden goose is on its last legs, kill it off and eat it?

johnruns

tunney wrote: »

B0ll0cks Sean. Pure b0ll0cks. If with the extortionate entry fee they cannot cover costs, future investment and make some profit they are incompetent.

more likely "lets milk the bucket listing cow".

A concerted effort to kill this race off from the tri community is required.

Very true.

RacoonQueen

I was giving them benefit of doubt thinking it may be estate owners looking for the fee, then I saw they were charging similar for their other events.

DO NOT BELIEVE ANY TRIPE THEY PUT OUT TO JUSTIFY THIS.

I would be requesting a refund and I wouldn't stop asking until I got it. So many people doing IM 'relying' on this race. They'd be better off doing a HIM training day together and getting refunds. That's what I would do.

edit:

Kurt_Godel

Reply I got, verbatim

Hi Paul, yes there is a small nominal charge which covers FREE bouncy castle, climbing wall, car park, entry in to a private castle, live music etc. I know this is different from other events in Ireland but I know you will see the difference for what is on offer.

You couldn't make it up, a charge to cover FREE aspects. Chancers!

Ruu

FREE PARKING!!

mossym

car park. whatever about the rest, the car park is in a field, with some serious rocks and dips, and stewards who don't give a $h&t if you drive them or not. one of the guys last year wanted me to park on top of them, i'd have taken half the bottom of the car off if it tried. rolled down my window, told him no way, and he yelled at me for holding up the queue. eventually let me park beside it, then tried to get the next guy to go on top of it too, who also refused .

and they claim this is what the money is covering?

bryangiggsy

RacoonQueen wrote: »

I was giving them benefit of doubt thinking it may be estate owners looking for the fee, then I saw they were charging similar for their other events.

DO NOT BELIEVE ANY TRIPE THEY PUT OUT TO JUSTIFY THIS.

I would be requesting a refund and I wouldn't stop asking until I got it. So many people doing IM 'relying' on this race. They'd be better off doing a HIM training day together and getting refunds. That's what I would do.

edit:

Good luck getting a refund from them M. More chance of Oliver Twist getting some more soup. Someone recently told me they tried to get a refund and they were told we will give you a 50% refund if you marshall at the race for us.

rowr

sconhome wrote: »

Posted on Facebook in reply to one of the comments about the spectator fee:



I do know it is a small team and that the venue is not cheap. Improvements are being made year on year.

Horsesh*t,

The whole venue is a commercial entity: http://www.loughcutra.com you rent it for weddings, activities, accommodation. The triathlon is another extension of that. Unless things have changed, I paid an above normal entry fee 3yrs ago and got a swim hat before the race and a half an organge after the race.

It may be a small team there but judging bu their strategy it is a wealthy small team

PWEI

RacoonQueen wrote: »

I was giving them benefit of doubt thinking it may be estate owners looking for the fee, then I saw they were charging similar for their other events.

DO NOT BELIEVE ANY TRIPE THEY PUT OUT TO JUSTIFY THIS.

I would be requesting a refund and I wouldn't stop asking until I got it. So many people doing IM 'relying' on this race. They'd be better off doing a HIM training day together and getting refunds. That's what I would do.

edit:

They're actually charging spectators more at the other races.

Hever Castle – £7.50 per adult and £3 per child

Chateau de Chantilly – £8 per adult and £5 per child :eek:

http://www.castletriathlonseries.co.uk/take-part/spectators/


I was considering entering the Olympic as I did the half two years ago & enjoyed it. Not a chance I'm going to enter now.

sconhome

PWEI wrote: »

Hever Castle – £7.50 per adult and £3 per child

Chateau de Chantilly – £8 per adult and £5 per child

To be fair they are locations that already are open to the public and charge an admission fee so that is something simply being passed on for general public access.

(Not justifying it - simply pointing out a material difference.

rodneyr1981

Decision reversed. No longer charging.

Kurt_Godel

Dear competitor,

We are sorry to learn that introducing spectator charges, in line with our other events, has caused an issue with some of you. In light of this we have had a re-think and will not do so anymore.

Listening to our community and delivering an event that ticks all your boxes is of utmost importance to us. We have charged spectator fees across all our events as we offer so much free entertainment and access to unique estates. We have witnessed the other estates really benefit for future triathlons from the proceeds of the spectator fee. However we can see from your response that a spectator fee is not going to work for this event.

All spectators are welcome to join this event for free. We may need to adapt the amount of free activity on offer, but we don’t want to upset and disappoint you.

We hope you can put this behind you now and please work with us in delivering an optimum triathlon festival that we have always prided ourselves on the amazing feedback you give.

With best wishes,

Lough Cutra Castle Triathlon team

Well they got rid of the new spectator charge, thats a positive neutral. Personally I found this to be a well-run event the past 3 years, some novel ideas that other Irish Tri's might look at (phased transition open/close for instance), but I'd imagine a lot of good will has been lost. I'll certainly think twice before entering next year, and will be more likely to enter club-run Tri's where there is an option.

tunney

rodneyr1981 wrote: »

Decision reversed. No longer charging.

This merely confirms it was a money grabbing tactic. This event needs to be boycotted from here on - if they will gouge this way this year, that will gouge again next year.

Avoid.
Tell your friends to avoid.
Tell your club mates to avoid.
Tell everyone to avoid.

hf4z6sqo7vjngi

You can all untwist your knickers now.

RacoonQueen

Let's hope people don't forget this when entries for next year open up.

Mr Tango

Any positives in this race?

I'd say prize money is a big one. A lot of races now incl national series have effectively no prize money.

The swim is great and bike course is spectacular from memory (did it in the first year).

They made an error re charging for spectators but have reversed that. Should we not be saying thanks for listening?

Kurt_Godel

RacoonQueen wrote: »

Let's hope people don't forget this when entries for next year open up.

I'll remember the quick volte face as something in their favour. Honestly, while I would prefer to support club races, a well-run and enjoyable Tri is the most important factor to me. There are better Tri's than this (Caroline Kearney, Lough Key, many others), but Cutra has a lot going for it, and has been well run previous years. Theres a place too for commercial events- this ill-thought spectator charge will have cost them a lot in the long run, but they did come out with their hands up when called out on it. Capitalism responding quickly to its market means something to me, and the family aspect on the day at Cutra has been second to none (as far as I've seen), so I'll reserve judgement until after this years event.

RacoonQueen

Bishop Fit Warehouse wrote: »

You can all untwist your knickers now.

Did you agree with the charge in the first place?

Kurt_Godel wrote: »

I'll remember the quick volte face as something in their favour. Honestly, while I would prefer to support club races, a well-run and enjoyable Tri is the most important factor to me. There are better Tri's than this (Caroline Kearney, Lough Key, many others), but Cutra has a lot going for it, and has been well run previous years. Theres a place too for commercial events- this ill-thought spectator charge will have cost them a lot in the long run, but they did come out with their hands up when called out on it. Capitalism responding quickly to its market means something to me, and the family aspect on the day at Cutra has been second to none (as far as I've seen), so I'll reserve judgement until after this years event.

Maybe it's the athletics girl in me but nothing about this incident washes well with me at all. The very fact they tried this is enough to sully this race entirely for me - absolutely unacceptable move from them and my cynical side firmly believes they will find another way to milk this cash from their competitors next year (and probably this year too if they think they can get away with it).

Their statement is disgusting. It basically says, since you cheapskates wont' pay to watch the event, we won't be putting on any 'free' entertainment. They'll probably charge for the kids bouncy castle now. People at our other events aren't cheapskates though so we'll put on 'free' entertainment for them still.

I can't believe intelligent people are buying this reversal.

johnruns

RacoonQueen wrote: »

Did you agree with the charge in the first place?



Maybe it's the athletics girl in me but nothing about this incident washes well with me at all. The very fact they tried this is enough to sully this race entirely for me - absolutely unacceptable move from them and my cynical side firmly believes they will find another way to milk this cash from their competitors next year (and probably this year too if they think they can get away with it).

Their statement is disgusting. It basically says, since you cheapskates wont' pay to watch the event, we won't be putting on any 'free' entertainment. They'll probably charge for the kids bouncy castle now. People at our other events aren't cheapskates though so we'll put on 'free' entertainment for them still.

I can't believe intelligent people are buying this reversal.

Great post absolutely bang on the button.

BTH

Damage is done in my book. I won't be back even for a free entry. Very likely to see entry fees increase next year to make up the difference.

ShineyShiney

Decent race, overpriced but nice location and well run.

If you compare it to Ironman or Challenge it compares pretty favourably from a cost perspective and delivers a good atmosphere as well but if you compare it to Irish events like kilkee or lost sheep it seems to come up well short.

Nobody seems to care that Challenge is costing €249 for the half and Ironman €290. Ironman delivered a good event last year but challenge is an unknown entity in Ireland, it may be brilliant but we will have to wait and see.

Lough Cutra is €160 just as a comparison.

Why are we as a triathlete community happy to be rogered by Ironman and Challenge but not by Castle Triathlon Series?

I don't see the difference.

The spectator fee was silly and I had a bit of fun at their expense but I still rate it highly as an event and will enter again next year if I get a special like this years St Pats deal. A €5 on the race entry wouldn't have had them compare any worse with the big 2 and they are already seen as expensive compared to the home grown variety so no loss there.

Anyway I'm entered in LC, Challenge and Dublin so I'll compare later.

peter kern

nine out of ten people complaining here have by far more tri gear than their need....
Not saying you dodnt have a point but it seems hypocratial to spend money on power meter , bikes worth thousands of euros you hardly use ,going to races abroad spending a fortune and than complain about 5 euro.
Maybe its time to think aobut your spending habbits for 5 minutes and this thread might really save you money ;-)

mossym

Peter, you get it was spectators they were going to charge right? Most of them have never spent a penny on triathlon and rightly so as they don't compete. Maybe if the posts were about the entry fee (and it has been lots of times ) then your point would be valid. But it's the charging of non competitors is the issue. Last time I looked most of them don't have power meters, bikes worth thousands of euros they hardly use and go to foreign races.

There should be more encouragement to non racers in trying to promote healthy lifestyles. Not Barriers, regardless of how much the fee is. 5 euros not a huge amount. But it's the principle and the message it sends

hf4z6sqo7vjngi

RacoonQueen wrote: »

Did you agree with the charge in the first place?

No M did not agree with the charge in the first place but was not as outraged as many obviously were on here and social media. Plenty of more important things to concern me than a few euro to have a go on the bouncy castle:)

sconhome

Having been in touch with Castle Tri since this news broke, and with a fair bit of back and forth, in hindsight, it looks like it is meant as a Castle access charge and was extremely badly worded calling it a spectators charge.

All the other venues are open to the public and charge people for access to the grounds. I understand this is what was being introduced here, which is why it was said with 100% certainty that the fee would go to the improvement of the Castle facilities rather than the pockets of the organisers.

Apparently it was in the website, not updated on one section and had been in all the emails sent out this season. I missed it too.

davedanon

Bishop Fit Warehouse wrote: »

No M did not agree with the charge in the first place but was not as outraged as many obviously were on here and social media. Plenty of more important things to concern me than a few euro to have a go on the bouncy castle:)

It's a matter of principle, not cost. €3-5 is obviously small change, the price of a beer or coffee. It's the sheer notion of charging spectators. These are amateur athletes travelling distances to events for the sheer love of it and the personal challenge. It's perfectly normal to want or even need to bring friends and/or family along. Charging them when they're only there to support a paying athlete is simply gouging. End of f*cking story.

Kurt_Godel

Bishop Fit Warehouse wrote: »

No M did not agree with the charge in the first place but was not as outraged as many obviously were on here and social media. Plenty of more important things to concern me than a few euro to have a go on the bouncy castle:)

"OMG you will not believe how outraged this guy gets with the height restriction after paying for a bouncy castle!!!"

davedanon wrote: »

End of f*cking story.

People now joining in from other forums to be outraged on behalf of triathletes... The Castle Tri people tried to shoehorn a new charge, listened to the negative reaction, held their hands up and apologised and said they made an error, and got rid of the charge within 24 hours. There was no bluff or bluster, they reacted to their customers quickly... thats a model way to deal with mistakes, time to move on from the online outrage.

bryangiggsy

I actually just read the race briefing and I'm quite impressed at how well this race is going to be run. Looking forward to it. Isnt Ironman 70.3 dublin now €315 to enter. ? Am sure that includes free vaseline though. I wonder if they have marshalls to apply it.

peter kern

Non of the spectator has complained in the threads so far ;-) only mostly rich atheltes ( the really poor ones the sport has long priced out by all this people that whine on this thread and buy the expensive gear and send the messages that tri ahs to be expensive )

in germany people have to pay to watch the very lowest soccer league and there is no bouncy castle just overweight soccer players.

mossym wrote: »

Peter, you get it was spectators they were going to charge right? Most of them have never spent a penny on triathlon and rightly so as they don't compete. Maybe if the posts were about the entry fee (and it has been lots of times ) then your point would be valid. But it's the charging of non competitors is the issue. Last time I looked most of them don't have power meters, bikes worth thousands of euros they hardly use and go to foreign races.

There should be more encouragement to non racers in trying to promote healthy lifestyles. Not Barriers, regardless of how much the fee is. 5 euros not a huge amount. But it's the principle and the message it sends

davedanon

bryangiggsy wrote: »

I actually just read the race briefing and I'm quite impressed at how well this race is going to be run. Looking forward to it. Isnt Ironman 70.3 dublin now €315 to enter. ? Am sure that includes free vaseline though. I wonder if they have marshalls to apply it.

€315?


Are you Tri people sure that you're not just all being royally taken advantage of by people who see what you're prepared to spend on running/cycling/swimming gear and conclude you're ripe for exploitation?