MAJOR PROBLEM Kerry Group Old Shares

Bellview

Kerry2016 wrote:

I'd advise everyone who gets these letters to reply to the revenue with solicitors letters

I would also advise speak with an accountant. It might be worth putting pressure on Co op board to represent farmers with revenue if penalties are raised by revenue.
Free shares will always draw bik.. and these shares have grown in value so not sure why folks complain and mention multi nationals as reason to not pay tax while I agree it's a tough year for farmers.

Kerry2016

The whole lot of the Co Op board need to be thrown out straight away, that bunch of illiterate donkeys have cost us enough money

People have no idea but they're 110% responsible for all this

And yer on now about having them to represent us to sort all this out, they're a total and utter disaster and it's only the tip of the iceberg, an EGM needs to be called straight away, any suggestions on how we'all get one called?

BannerBarry

20% of shareholders A's and B's in value and shares can call an EGM.
It has to be done. The board of Kerry Co-op surely knew that this was happening with the revenue and they allowed voting on Coop directorships be conducted last week without the full facts being known by the voters.... Crazy stuff. Call an EGM through the media and request 100% of the board to resign at same meeting and appoint a businessman to conduct the return of the co op to members before further Investment distruction is allowed happen here.

Bellview

Kerry2016 wrote:

And yer on now about having them to represent us to sort all this out, they're a total and utter disaster and it's only the tip of the iceberg, an EGM needs to be called straight away, any suggestions on how we'all get one called?

Are co op board not elected through branch elections.
I can't comment on the board as I don't know them. I'm sure there are rules around how Egm are called. A question into the company secretary will help get answer

Bellview

Kerry2016 wrote:

The whole lot of the Co Op board need to be thrown out straight away, that bunch of illiterate donkeys have cost us enough money

Kerry2016 wrote:

People have no idea but they're 110% responsible for all this

I risk stirring emotions here but every individual is responsible for their own tax. The patron shares are a different debate

Kerry2016

Bellview wrote: »

I risk stirring emotions here but every individual is responsible for their own tax. The patron shares are a different debate

What annoys me is that even though we're producing a lot of milk we still lost out because of the patron share scheme

The thanks that we got off the Kerry Co Op board for helping get the company off the ground in 1972 and buying a lot of the shares was that they then decided to halve the value of our Co Op shares by giving them away to every Tom, Dick and Harry that produced milk

Now to add insult to injury the revenue are trying to tax us on the patron shares we got even though the entire patron share scheme has come close to costing us an eight figure sum and they're trying to say that we gained out of it

BannerBarry

Kerry2016 wrote: »

The whole lot of the Co Op board need to be thrown out straight away, that bunch of illiterate donkeys have cost us enough money

People have no idea but they're 110% responsible for all this

And yer on now about having them to represent us to sort all this out, they're a total and utter disaster and it's only the tip of the iceberg, an EGM needs to be called straight away, any suggestions on how we'all get one called?

An Advisory committee member had no idea today that this tax issue was in the pipeline.
He is one of the guys that elect the Directors and the Kerry Co op Directors do not even have the respect to inform them of this huge issue.

The Advisory committee can get the EGM signatures to oust the Board here and have someone qualified perform "Damage limitation" on what's left of our Investment Holding company called Kerry Co Op.

CiarraiAbu2

Bellview wrote: »

I risk stirring emotions here but every individual is responsible for their own tax. The patron shares are a different debate

Your right but i'd say most people if not all thought they were taxable on the sale through CGT now they get caught for income tax and when they sell CGT.

Kerry2016

This is only the tip of the iceberg lads, wait and see how bad all this is going to get

BannerBarry

Tax bombshell for hundreds of Kerry milk supplier

Hundreds of Kerry milk suppliers are up in arms following their receipt of tax demands from the Revenue linked to ‘patronage shares’ issued to them by Kerry Co-op during the period 2011 to 2013.

Speaking to Agriland, one Kerry supplier said that he received shares on a pro rata basis, tying in with the volumes of milk he supplied.

“The offer worked out at one share per 1,000 gallons of milk produced across each of the three years. I have no idea what value can be attached to them.

“But I kept all the shares issued to me, so I don’t see how this process can be considered as a form of business revenue generation.

“I could understand me having to pay tax, had I sold any of the shares on, but this is not the case.”

A number of Kerry suppliers have contacted Agriland, confirming tax demands ranging from €15,000 to €30,000.

In a letter received by what is believed to be400 Kerry suppliers the Revenue points out that the intervention is being conducted as ‘Aspect Inquiry’.

The letter continues:

“This affords you the opportunity of making an Unprompted Voluntary Disclosure under the Code of Practice and other Compliance Interventions, thereby minimising potential penalties together with avoiding  publication and prosecution if all conditions attaching to making such a disclosure are met.

“To enable you to avail of the opportunity to make such a disclosure, please respond with your computation of the tax liability together with the appropriate payment.”

Significantly, the Revenue has declared that the patronage shares must be regarded as trading income and subject to income tax, USC, and PSRI. Moreover, the scale of these liabilities must be based on the market value of the shares, not their par value. The recipient farmers have been given 21 days to reply.

Revenue has confirmed that it is aware of certain milk suppliers receiving patronage, or free shares, in proportion to the quantity of milk supplied to a co-op.

Such shares should be included as trading income subject to income tax, USC and PRSI based on their market value when received.

The Revenue letters advise the shareholders of the possible tax liability in relation to the value of free shares received and giving an opportunity to come forward now and pay any income tax due in this matter.

According to Revenue sources, the letters arise as compliance interventions in the context of the organisation’s risk framework and the advice for anyone who has received a letter, or anyone who has received such shares, is to engage with Revenue staff and address the issues raised.

Commenting on these developments ICMSA President John Comer said that his organisation has been receiving many calls from hugely concerned members regarding an “out of the blue” tax demand from the Revenue Commissioners.

“This has happened in a year that has already been difficult for dairy farmers. ICMSA is currently examining the position and will be seeking further clarification from Revenue, given the very serious consequences for individual farmers.”

cute geoge

CiarraiAbu2 wrote: »

11,12 & 13 at the moment, 65, 75 and 90 are the share values being applied by revenue, added to income to calculate the additional income tax, Prsi and USC plus interest and penalties.

I wonder is this also going to be the problem if/when the remaining co op shares are converted to plc. instead of capital gains tax at 33% when sold,high income earners will get stung at 51% at conversion.
It seems kerry co op had some deal with revenue in previous patronage shares that now seems revenue has called time on!!!
Surely any good solicitor should be able to prove that any previous conversions/patronage shares deal between co op and revenue set a precedent for future share exchanges

kerry cow

Correct me but did we not buy the co op shares for 1.25 or thereabouts and the figure charged to our co op milk statement and stamp duty paid .so therefore all has been disclosed .

Kerry2016

KerryCow is right with what he's just said, apparently we did actually buy the Co Op shares for €1.25

It strikes me as though the revenue commissioners are fairly stuck for something to be doing, they're coming after farmers for all this much money, there doesn't seem to be much of a legal basis for any of this and at the end of the day the farmers aren't going to be able to come up with any of the money in a lot of cases and they've given a 21 day deadline for everything to be paid up and after that penalties and interest are going to start piling up

Billyballs

Looks like ye boys are going to have to pay for your free shares after all! Do ye still want the conversation cause you'll be paying for that too.

Billyballs

Maybe revenue were looking at this thread and seen how wealthy kerry2016 is from Kerry shares and decided to act.

Billyballs

BannerBarry wrote: »

Would they not be better off taxing the International Property investors and the Multinationals than scre**ng farmers over in the worst farming year in modern history... pure miserable strategy to go backwards...
Will they apply this to all Co op's and not just Kerry Milk suppliers?

Isn't it funny that you have sympathy for milk suppliers now your own pockets have being picked.

NovemberJersey

What it comes down to is that in comparison to the rest of the country all us farmers are wealthy, when the revenue commissioners come around looking for more tax revenue they're not going to go and try get the money off cottiers and doler or any of those useless bastards, its us people that are well off that have to foot the bill

We're living in a welfare state, it makes me f*ing sick

Billyballs

Looks like the full conversion was the cause of all these letters. Stan tipped off revenue to the value of the shares when talking to them about the conversion.

NovemberJersey

Billyballs wrote: »

Looks like the full conversion was the cause of all these letters. Stan tipped off revenue to the value of the shares when talking to them about the conversion.

Billyballs my friend, can you tell me what it's like?

Billyballs

NovemberJersey wrote: »

Billyballs my friend, can you tell me what it's like?

?

NovemberJersey

Billyballs wrote: »

?

What is it like to be a person who is of the frame of mind that you took the time to come here and get enjoyment from attempting to get under people's skin with sly comments. Your attempt to kick us while we're down is both childish and pathetic and your actually embarrassing yourself because your only showing yourself up. All the other posters here are ignoring you and if I had any sense I would be doing the same. And by the way it's not a cut and dry case, we never did "get the shares for nothing" so don't celebrate too soon.

Jexbullcalf

NovemberJersey wrote: »

What is it like to be a person who is of the frame of mind that you took the time to come here and get enjoyment from attempting to get under people's skin with sly comments. Your attempt to kick us while we're down is both childish and pathetic and your actually embarrassing yourself because your only showing yourself up. All the other posters here are ignoring you and if I had any sense I would be doing the same. And by the way it's not a cut and dry case, we never did "get the shares for nothing" so don't celebrate too soon.

Well you took the bait so what does that say about you. im entitled to share my opinion here the same as yourself. You see where all the gloating about milk suppliers holding ye all back has gotten ye! Everyone is going to suffer now because of the impatience and greed or the people looking for free money from a conversion.

kerry cow

Well lads I believe all the accountants phones have been hopping all day .what's the feed back from the different offices ?

BannerBarry

I got barred on here for calling out the obvious a few weeks back!
Thank you November Jersey for reconfirming.

NovemberJersey

I reported him for it so hopefully that will be the end of the silliness. One would think that we would all be a bit old for such carry on, needless to say he ain't working too hard all day long if he has time to be creating multiple accounts to amuse himself. People like him would really give you an eye opener about how bitter some people are, since when are share conversions ''free money'', I got patron shares like every other milk supplier at the time and I'm not ashamed of it. Forgetting about all that anyway I have heard that things might not be so bad after all to do with the big tax bill everyone got in the post yesterday, I think it was farcical on the revenues behalf to expect us all to be able to pull all these tens of thousands of euros out of our back sides at the drop of a hat.

Ciarrai76

Post regarding duplicate account deleted. No need to publicly comment on it, the report function will do. The tone is slipping again, Please keep things civil. Mod

NovemberJersey

The taxman is really going to put the cat amongst the pigeons when they come looking for the tax on the 2013 conversion, I've my shares from that conversion sold and I've no way of paying all this tax on them, I've already paid my capital gains tax and now those lowlifes want income tax on it. We're being driven off the land

kerry cow

I think Stan jumped ship knowing what was coming and didn't want to be associated with the farmers .he has alot to answer for along with our plc directors .They are not up to the job .But Stan is good at his .

fepper

NovemberJersey wrote: »

The taxman is really going to put the cat amongst the pigeons when they come looking for the tax on the 2013 conversion, I've my shares from that conversion sold and I've no way of paying all this tax on them, I've already paid my capital gains tax and now those lowlifes want income tax on it. We're being driven off the land

Maybe the coop board and auditors/accountants should be held liable for this if not done correctly

NovemberJersey

The PLC is in no way to blame for any of this. The revenue are taking the complete piss with the whole thing tbh, they don't have any right from a legal standpoint to do what they're trying to do. Also our accountants are partially to blame but no they can't be forced to make any financial compensation for us, that's part of the rules of being an accountant, any mistakes they make don't fall back on them. And last but not least our Co Op board are largely responsible for this but it's the men who were on the board back in the early 2000's who created this mess, not the current board.