JOGLE record smashed - or is it?

sconhome

This story has legs:

http://www.run247.com/articles/article-7176-jogle-record-smashed---or-is-it%3F-.html

He's smashed the record for Lands End to John o'Groats running virtually impossible distances and times back to back.

It really is going to be "if it's not on Strava, it doesn't exist".

My question is what is the thinking behind people cheating in races? What are people delusional about accomplishments like this LEJOG? In my opinion simply having the guts to step up to taking on the challenge is kudos enough, what gain is there to falsely (allegedly!!) claiming an unrealistic record?

(He also hints on Facebook that he is not actually finished yet which is interesting in itself.)

ThisRegard

sconhome wrote: »

In my opinion simply having the guts to step up to taking on the challenge is kudos enough

If you plan on cheating though it's not really guts that you have as you don't intend on taking the full challenge.

average_runner

sconhome wrote: »

This story has legs:

http://www.run247.com/articles/article-7176-jogle-record-smashed---or-is-it%3F-.html

He's smashed the record for Lands End to John o'Groats running virtually impossible distances and times back to back.

It really is going to be "if it's not on Strava, it doesn't exist".

My question is what is the thinking behind people cheating in races? What are people delusional about accomplishments like this LEJOG? In my opinion simply having the guts to step up to taking on the challenge is kudos enough, what gain is there to falsely (allegedly!!) claiming an unrealistic record?

(He also hints on Facebook that he is not actually finished yet which is interesting in itself.)

If your going to do something, do it at 100%.

Only losers take shortcuts

sconhome

ThisRegard wrote: »

If you plan on cheating though it's not really guts that you have as you don't intend on taking the full challenge.

That was my thinking.

If you genuinely step up and fail to finish I'd give you a lot of credit for attempting.

Singer

Total meta-comment: would it make sense to have a single "running in the media" thread or something along those lines? Most of these posts are kind of interesting, but chat about the topic fizzles out pretty quickly. Having a single thread for these kind of posts might encourage more links to be posted, as I'm sure folks read plenty that are interesting but don't think they're worth a new thread.

kit3

sconhome wrote: »

That was my thinking.

If you genuinely step up and fail to finish I'd give you a lot of credit for attempting.

Exactly - cannot understand why people would cheat on these challenges. They are only fooling themselves

Enduro

sconhome wrote: »

This story has legs:

http://www.run247.com/articles/article-7176-jogle-record-smashed---or-is-it%3F-.html

He's smashed the record for Lands End to John o'Groats running virtually impossible distances and times back to back.

It really is going to be "if it's not on Strava, it doesn't exist".

My question is what is the thinking behind people cheating in races? What are people delusional about accomplishments like this LEJOG? In my opinion simply having the guts to step up to taking on the challenge is kudos enough, what gain is there to falsely (allegedly!!) claiming an unrealistic record?

(He also hints on Facebook that he is not actually finished yet which is interesting in itself.)

It certainly looks extremely unlikely that he has done what he has claimed. Even looking at photos of him, he's not exactly in world record shape. Often in these kind of cases it's their track record and history in properly certified and referreed races that gives the game away. The disconnect tends to be quite sharp.

Unfortunately ultrarunning is prone to this type of thing. There is a long tradition of honour and respect accross the board, but this ethos is easily exploited by the egomaniacal brigade. This type of thing is a good example of it.

His mistake here was wandering from something which no one else has bothered doing (400 marathons in 365 days, or whatever it was) to something with an existing track record which makes it more straightforward to assess how likely or unlikely his achievement is.

My own thoughts on what drives these types is that it is a very very needy ego that is way beyond what their natural ability can satiate. The vast majority of people would be happy to do their best whatever their natural ability (and know that they have done so). You often find these types need to get into the record books, no matter what. The clever ones make up a "challenge" that no one else has done (like say, 52 marathons in 52 states in 52 days) which is within average capabilities, but which no-one has thought of doing. Easy to get a record that way. It's when they wander into the realms of pre-existing records that trouble starts, as they need to take more unorthodox methods to get beyond the limitations of their abilities.

davedanon

Anyone who claims to have run any sort of distance at all, be it 100 metres or 100 miles would be sure to time said run. There are any number of devices than will time a run, and these days they can be dirt cheap. There is only one reason possible for someone to claim a run without being able to back it up via timing/logging device. They're cheating. Simples.

Enduro

davedanon wrote: »

Anyone who claims to have run any sort of distance at all, be it 100 metres or 100 miles would be sure to time said run. There are any number of devices than will time a run, and these days they can be dirt cheap. There is only one reason possible for someone to claim a run without being able to back it up via timing/logging device. They're cheating. Simples.

A timing device can be a simple as a watch, obviously. In the case of this run pressing the start and stop functions of a watch doesn't really prove anything. People do all sorts of things to cheat the watch. There are a huge number of cases of people taking short-cuts/ rides on transport in marathons and other races that are quite well known. Timing a run only establishes the timing of the run! it doesn't verify that the distance was covered. Tracking the run would of course help, but trackers can be manipulated too. They're not 100% verification by any means.

This is why the tradition of trust and honour is so important in ultrarunning, particularly for FKT style runs. It's not that difficult to cheat.

Races which have courses which can be fully observed by race referees are far less likely to have problems with these kind of people. Probably one reason why you rarely see the spoofers at well organised races!

Djoucer

I suspect the person had no idea how fast the record is when they first set out to break it. Or how recognised JOGLe is.

As enduro says, it's a different matter altogether compared to "20 marathons in 20 places beginning with the letter Y" type records.

He claim he's done 90 marathons in 90 days with a PB of sub 3 on marathon 60.

http://www.redbull.com/uk/en/adventure/stories/1331752685330/meet-the-guy-who-ran-90-marathons-in-90-days

Could be an entertaining few days.

Predictions? Broken tracker, it's for charity etc

sconhome

Apparently he was sponsored a Microsoft Band and was to use it to track the whole thing. Doesn't seem to have happened.

RayCun

I'd bet his sub 3 marathon wasn't done in an official race

sconhome

Sticking to his story http://www.expressandstar.com/news/2016/05/11/marathon-man-marks-860-mile-world-record-called-into-question/

Enduro

Djoucer wrote: »

Predictions? Broken tracker, it's for charity etc

Bingo! A win on both counts!

Charideee

Enduro

RayCun wrote: »

I'd bet his sub 3 marathon wasn't done in an official race

100% correct. Even his London Marathon run wasn't an official London Marathon run :rolleyes:

TFBubendorfer

sconhome wrote: »

Sticking to his story http://www.expressandstar.com/news/2016/05/11/marathon-man-marks-860-mile-world-record-called-into-question/

Not any more.

http://www.expressandstar.com/news/local-news/2016/05/11/marathon-man-mark-vaz-admits-he-did-not-break-world-record-by-31-hours/

sconhome

Guess by the backpedaling he's going to attempt it in reverse?

Enduro

sconhome wrote: »

Guess by the backpedaling he's going to attempt it in reverse?

He actual is saying he is going to (or was recently). Unassisted this time, with a mere 17 days as the target.

In fairness, you have to feel sorry for anyone close to him. It can't be easy dealing with this.

sconhome

Interesting comment on another forum about the charity donations and questions that are around that:

What is interesting here is that numerous people have requested to see proof of where the donations have gone...and none has been provided.

Just as with the alleged 'record', many have donated a LOT of money that appears to some to be going in his back pocket.

Similarly, no proof has been made available for the 'record'.

Stablemaster

Isn't there a chap from the North attempting a 60 ultra in 60 day world record attempt soon?is this similar?

Neady83

Stablemaster wrote: »

Isn't there a chap from the North attempting a 60 ultra in 60 day world record attempt soon?is this similar?

Yea, this guy Stevey McGeown, is planning to run the perimeter of Ireland in 60 days, covering 39.3 miles each day.

http://steveysepicadventure.com/

BeepBeep67

Neady83 wrote: »

Yea, this guy Stevey McGeown, is planning to run the perimeter of Ireland in 60 days, covering 39.3 miles each day.

http://steveysepicadventure.com/

I'm curious, what 5 world records is he looking to break?

sconhome

BeepBeep67 wrote: »

I'm curious, what 5 world records is he looking to break?

Me too. I wonder if its setting a new world record or breaking an existing one.

I can only think of:
- 60 ultras in 60 days being a new world standard / record as has it been done before?
- run 2,400 continuously in Ireland; has it been done before?
- record time for that particular route

Enduro

sconhome wrote: »

Me too. I wonder if its setting a new world record or breaking an existing one.

I can only think of:
- 60 ultras in 60 days being a new world standard / record as has it been done before?
- run 2,400 continuously in Ireland; has it been done before?
- record time for that particular route

A perfect three for "Making up a challenge that no-one else has done before". In fairness, 60 ultras (with that Irish oddball specialty of 1.5 marathons being the chosen distance) in 60 days, if it is consecutive, is a tough enough undertaking. Defnitely not making things easy.

morceli

sconhome wrote: »

BeepBeep67 wrote: »

I'm curious, what 5 world records is he looking to break?

Me too. I wonder if its setting a new world record or breaking an existing one.

I can only think of:
- 60 ultras in 60 days being a new world standard / record as has it been done before?
- run 2,400 continuously in Ireland; has it been done before?
- record time for that particular route

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JB2di69FmhE

These debates always remind me of this ....

Krusty_Clown

Another point to point ultra record-in-the-making, with some controversy hanging over it: Trans-America record, brought to you by Let's Run.

I can't imagine that some form of technical solution wouldn't support verifying the data. I mean if he's asleep in the van, you'd imagine that a HR graph and cadence sensor would do the trick. Doesn't mean he couldn't pass the watch/HR strap to someone else, but at least you could iron out some possibilities.

sconhome

Was very funny reading a report on that where a lad wanted to run a leg and was tracking the GPS to find a van moving at runner pace with no runner visible.

dublin runner

It does look highly suspicious alright. At least he provided some actual data, however questionable.

There has been or two very questionable performances in this country over the years. In fact, there's one ultra challenge going on the moment that provides virtually no evidence. That's all well and good if it's a personal pursuit but quite different matter when using it for personal gain (motivational speaking and he like).

Let's put it this way! If I ran a marathon or ultra every day for a prolonged period I would be plastering all the data all over social media! #likehunter

Enduro

The TransAmerican run is interesting as the lad seems to have a high degree of credibility with the British Ultra community. The debate is a bit more nuanced than usual as a result. Personally speaking, I've read enough to think that there are some big questions to be answered, but its not as obvious as is usually the case with these things.

But as ever, some of the common themes exist here. He's (self admitedly, as part of the plan for the run) over-weight. And of course, the usual "its for charideeeee" defense, so nothing can be questioned.

jamule

Jaysus letsrun is great. We better keep quite about Enduro's exploits.

robinph

Zero reason to not be publishing the runs to Strava or equivalent if you are going for a record. If nothing else it will help with publicising it for the charidees.
Zero reason for the van to be driving around at running pace, but with the runner nowhere in sight. He should be running infront of the van, especially at night. If they are bending the rules/ spirit of the task by letting him run behind getting a wind break or shelter from the sun then the other guy crewing the van but not driving should be sat hanging out of the back window watching the guy constantly incase he falls off the pace. For them to not notice that their sole reason for being there has dropped back 15 minutes behind the van means they haven't been doing their job for at least half an hour.
Having half marathon world records and multiple marathon PB's recorded as part of his 70mile plus days over mountains and through the desert need to be explained somehow which they currently haven't even attempted other than saying "but he's a nice guy" as their only defence.

Other questions over his historical PB's and the claims of him "winning" the Race Across America last year and running so fast that he outran the support vehicles also make him sound dodgy.

jamule

robinph wrote: »

Zero reason to not be publishing the runs to Strava or equivalent if you are going for a record. If nothing else it will help with publicising it for the charidees.
Zero reason for the van to be driving around at running pace, but with the runner nowhere in sight. He should be running infront of the van, especially at night. If they are bending the rules/ spirit of the task by letting him run behind getting a wind break or shelter from the sun then the other guy crewing the van but not driving should be sat hanging out of the back window watching the guy constantly incase he falls off the pace. For them to not notice that their sole reason for being there has dropped back 15 minutes behind the van means they haven't been doing their job for at least half an hour.
Having half marathon world records and multiple marathon PB's recorded as part of his 70mile plus days over mountains and through the desert need to be explained somehow which they currently haven't even attempted other than saying "but he's a nice guy" as their only defence.

Other questions over his historical PB's and the claims of him "winning" the Race Across America last year and running so fast that he outran the support vehicles also make him sound dodgy.

Ah come on its for Charity and he's a nice guy!

And also he is British, and the British are being taken over by the muslims, so they are weak, so it is no surprise that they have weak people like this guy. (this statement may not be my own views and may have been robbed from letsrun)