Season 6 Episode 3 "Oathbreaker" - "Book readers"

Nody

Pre empting the upcoming episode post by including some highlights from the charter. I'll try to set up each episode in advance each week; thread will be unlocked on Sunday evening.

This is ONLY about the specific episode! No information from any interviews etc. are allowed to be posted but book related information is allowed as well as the lore from the DVDs. Anything relating to interviews can be posted with a spoiler tag.


In addition anyone picking up 3 yellow cards will be banned from the forum for the current season; in case of serious enough transgressions the ban may come earlier than 3 cards

Thread will be unlocked on Sunday evening.

I'm actually crying tears of joy at that scene

jebidiah

My watch is ended....


Such a good episode, but it makes me want to read the book version of these events.
DAMN IT GRRM FINISH WINDS OF WINTER!


Such a mickey tease with the Tower of Joy, but I like what the producer said at the end, reality vs the story told. Ned was never known as a great fighter, not surprising how it went down.

Although, where was Ice? It's not a practical weapon, but I thought it was mentioned in the book that he used it at a different battle, Pyke maybe?

Rickon is ****ed, but I feel worse for Osha, she's in a terrible position here. Copping out on the direwolves again, poor Shaggydog.

J. Marston

jebidiah wrote: »

My watch is ended....


Such a good episode, but it makes me want to read the book version of these events.
DAMN IT GRRM FINISH WINDS OF WINTER!


Such a mickey tease with the Tower of Joy, but I like what the producer said at the end, reality vs the story told. Ned was never known as a great fighter, not surprising how it went down.

Although, where was Ice? It's not a practical weapon, but I thought it was mentioned in the book that he used it at a different battle, Pyke maybe?

Rickon is ****ed, but I feel worse for Osha, she's in a terrible position here. Copping out on the direwolves again, poor Shaggydog.

Where was Dawn?! The twin swords did look cool though and Arthur Dayne did fight like an absolute badass.

rawn

Oh, and here is Gregor Clegane, let's be public about this since the Martells have been obliterated. Ffs.

jebidiah

J. Marston wrote: »

Where was Dawn?! The twin swords did look cool though and Arthur Dayne did fight like an absolute badass.

The first sword he put in the ground had a prominent sigil marked on the pomel. Looked like a half a sun with sun beams, a rising sun, Dawn?

J. Marston

jebidiah wrote: »

The first sword he put in the ground had a prominent sigil marked on the pomel. Looked like a half a sun with sun beams, a rising sun, Dawn?

Yep, think you're right actually...

http://i.imgur.com/y5fGVbf.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/RZxZyIb.png

RobbingBandit

Damn, poor Shaggy Dog.

Now Doran is dead Ser Robert Strong has reverted to Ser Gregor or was he ever Ser Robert in the show?

Ben Gadot

I mentioned in the speculation thread that Shaggydog would probably get the shaft off screen, and so it came to pass. I'm not a happy camper.

Also, Umber's reasoning is bull****. His disdain for Rambo is plain to see and it's clear that he held Roose in similar disdain for his oath breaking, so his solution to killing the wildlings is......breaking his own oath? Christ.

On a positive note, loved the castle black scenes, the tower of joy and the speed of Arya's arc. It's curious that Ned was clearly trying to avoid conflict while Dayne remained resolute. Why would Dayne be so afraid of engaging Ned on the topic of his own sister? What does he think Ned would do to his own sister? Regardless of possibly giving birth to a Targaryen.

Washington Irving

Ben Gadot wrote: »

I mentioned in the speculation thread that Shaggydog would probably get the shaft off screen, and so it came to pass. I'm not a happy camper.

Also, Umber's reasoning is bull****. His disdain for Rambo is plain to see and it's clear that he held Roose in similar disdain for his oath breaking, so his solution to killing the wildlings is......breaking his own oath? Christ.

I'm not sure it is as it seems with the Umbers and Rickon. Tend to second guess most things in the show and overestimate the writers so I am usually wrong, but Smalljon refusing to kneel, his general bullishness, and Rickon's lack of panic/shock (could easily be explained away at the same time though) makes me think we might be getting an abridged version of the northern conspiracy. Not 100% convinced that's Shaggydog's head either.

On a positive note, loved the castle black scenes, the tower of joy and the speed of Arya's arc. It's curious that Ned was clearly trying to avoid conflict while Dayne remained resolute. Why would Dayne be so afraid of engaging Ned on the topic of his own sister? What does he think Ned would do to his own sister? Regardless of possibly giving birth to a Targaryen.

Take her away and bring her back to Robert against Rhaegar's orders. Possibly also revealing the truth about the child, putting it in danger.

Son0vagun

Ramseys gift had me worried and my worst fears where confirmed. Why do the writers keep ****ting on the Stark kids! Maybe not everything is as it seems, but where else would they get a direwolfs head. Unfortunitly I think Ramsey has a new Reek. But I'm also gutted that it seems all the North have turned on the Starks, it makes no sense.

Good episode over all. Lord Comander Ed, love it.

Daith

Ah crap. That's Shaggy and Rickon/Osha are toast. I mean I'd love if Shaggy's head was the same as Davos' head from the books but doubt it.

The Tower of Joy was so much fun. Dayne was perfect. Loved that Ned could hear Bran. I think it's possible Bran might change the past...Also where the **** is Bran supposed to go?

EagererBeaver

Daith wrote: »

Ah crap. That's Shaggy and Rickon/Osha are toast. I mean I'd love if Shaggy's head was the same as Davos' head from the books but doubt it.

The Tower of Joy was so much fun. Dayne was perfect. Loved that Ned could hear Bran. I think it's possible Bran might change the past...Also where the **** is Bran supposed to go?

I think all is not as it seems with the Umbers either.

Tower of Joy was great and Dayne was as good as expected. The rest looked like jobbers compared to him with his dual wield action. Dunno why they only had two kingsguard though?! Stupidly allowed myself to believe we'd see Ned inside the tower with Lyanna but of course there was no such luck. In fairness, after his resurrection, I thought we'd get trolled and not see Jon for a few episodes.

Be interesting to see his angle now. Does he march on winterfell with the wildlings? Interesting to note that while he gave up his cloak, he kept hold of Longclaw. He definitely means business.

Liam O

Great that Jon changed the Lord Commander election process while dead too.

awec

Wonder if Jon will march south now.

duploelabs

awec wrote: »

Wonder if Jon will march south now.

b@stardbowl

EagererBeaver

duploelabs wrote: »

b@stardbowl

And (hopefully) Cleganebowl in the same season

Liam O

So is Jon basically going to be the new King beyond the Wall now(I'm aware they're not beyond the wall anymore)? I'm not sure what his plan or motivations would be without a pink letter. Was he lying about the nothing that he experienced while dead? Be interesting to see where they go with this.

The Pheasant2

Thought Dayne dual wielding was OTT - looked a bit dumb...would've preferred just Dawn.

Otherwise not much complaints

duffman13

The Pheasant2 wrote: »

Thought Dayne dual wielding was OTT - looked a bit dumb...would've preferred just Dawn.

Otherwise not much complaints

I thoroughly enjoyed that scene, fantastic battle and Dayne really looked a different class of warrior to everyone else.

FunLover18

It was very dark and I couldn't really see but it was definitely a direwolf's head was it? If this is a ploy by the Umbers I doubt they would have actually killed Shaggy Dog. I reckon Osha is wildling enough to handle Ramsey, hopefully she bites his cock off, but I suppose she'll want to protect Rickon.

Glad they got the same actor back for Rickon but I suppose pulling the hood off wouldn't have been as dramatic with a recast.

Mr Velo

I don't think that was Shaggydog. The head looked too small. Had it been Roose they were speaking to - his next question would have been "How do i know that's The Starks Direwolf" - but not Ramsey.

FunLover18

In either the TV show or the books has Bran remembered what he saw before he fell?

SB_Part2

Mr Velo wrote: »

I don't think that was Shaggydog. The head looked too small. Had it been Roose they were speaking to - his next question would have been "How do i know that's The Starks Direwolf" - but not Ramsey.

I thought the same but not sure what their end game could be there. Rickon looked terrified.

Was hoping we'd see more of the Tower of Joy scene.

Nody

FunLover18 wrote: »

In either the TV show or the books has Bran remembered what he saw before he fell?

Had to google to confirm but yes he does in the books as part of setting him up as a future seer.

yes he does. He has a dream about it early on in ACOK just before the Autumn Festival of Winterfell, the dream where the three eyed crow pecks a hole in his forehead to open his third eye. He doesn't tell anyone though not even Maester Lewin or Rodrik and just suppresses it to make it go away. He also dreamed about Robb and Greywind's death after the Red Wedding but again he doesn't tell the Reeds and he just suppresses it.

Daith

Think it's a bit convenient that the Umbers only arrive after Roose dies. Also they were sure about Ramsey killing Roose. Could the Karstarks be against Ramsey I wonder?

Will Sansa arrive just as Jon goes? Will we ever have the Starks reunited?

juneg

Aren't we always told, "the North remembers"?
They've forgotten a lot of loyalties haven't they. There must be some tussle to regain power in the North in the books but we wont know.

I dont think the Umbers are in any way loyal to the Starks anymore, handing over Rickon to Rambo severs all loyalties immediately. Hopefully Jon and his wildling horde will arrive soon and finish them all off.

Lyanna was screaming, I presume we all believe that was childbirth? I wish we'd seen more in the Tower of Joy, I'm still holding out for twins!

karma_

Daith wrote: »

Also they were sure about Ramsey killing Roose. Could the Karstarks be against Ramsey I wonder?

That's what I thought too, thought they even laid it on a bit thick with the 'fake' antagonism between the Karstarks and the Umbers. Whole thing did have a pantomime feel about it.

Liam O

I don't know, I've found that because of the complexity and layered nature of Martin's writing a lot of people seem to give D&D a lot more respect for such things when there's always been more of an Occams Razor vibe to the TV shows writing. If it looks like the Karstarks and Umbers are on Ramsey's side, they act like they are on Ramsey's side and are publicly allied with him then they are probably on his side. Putting the heir to Winterfell on a plate for him would be a silly move for someone looking to usurp Ramsey when he's just killed his father, stepmother and brother.

Daith

Liam O wrote: »

I don't know, I've found that because of the complexity and layered nature of Martin's writing a lot of people seem to give D&D a lot more respect for such things when there's always been more of an Occams Razor vibe to the TV shows writing. If it looks like the Karstarks and Umbers are on Ramsey's side, they act like they are on Ramsey's side and are publicly allied with him then they are probably on his side. Putting the heir to Winterfell on a plate for him would be a silly move for someone looking to usurp Ramsey when he's just killed his father, stepmother and brother.

Yeah that's where I'm at too. The North Remembers was a woman with a candle. Shaggydog is dead. Rickon and Osha will be flayed and burned for Jon to see.

Mr Velo

Anyone know where the hell Bronn has gotten to? He got on the ship with Jaime and Myrcella in Dorne, but no word of him since.

Daith

Mr Velo wrote: »

Anyone know where the hell Bronn has gotten to? He got on the ship with Jaime and Myrcella in Dorne, but no word of him since.

Living it up like the Lord he is?

Liam O

Mr Velo wrote: »

Anyone know where the hell Bronn has gotten to? He got on the ship with Jaime and Myrcella in Dorne, but no word of him since.

They probably ran into Gendry on the high seas and Bronn is helping him row back from Dragonstone.

Hans Bricks

Is Greatjon dead ? I can't be arsed going back over the Winterfell scene.

rawn

When Mirri Maz Duhr cursed Dany in the first season, didn't the show leave out the part about her being barren?

intheclouds

I'm just bloody furious that they trolled us with only half the Tower of Joy.

Although Ser Arthur Dayne totally lived up to my imagination and great choreography in that scene too.

Bit harsh hanging Olly, he isn't even a member of the Nights Watch and he was only a kid.

So who is the Oathbreaker? Jon? But his watch has ended.

Dave_The_Sheep

intheclouds wrote: »

Bit harsh hanging Olly, he isn't even a member of the Nights Watch and he was only a kid.

Nah, f*ck him.

Ben Gadot

intheclouds wrote: »

I'm just bloody furious that they trolled us with only half the Tower of Joy.

Although Ser Arthur Dayne totally lived up to my imagination and great choreography in that scene too.

Bit harsh hanging Olly, he isn't even a member of the Nights Watch and he was only a kid.

So who is the Oathbreaker? Jon? But his watch has ended.

You could there were various oathbreakers.

Smalljon breaking his oath to the Starks.

The NW mutineers who were justifiably executed.

Dany for breaking Dothraki heritage.

RobbingBandit

Olly stabbed Jon in the heart. I think by stating this they were indicating it was the killing blow or he hung the little fecker for Ygritte.

RobbingBandit

Wonder if the brother in the noose saying White Harbour will mean anything. It is one of the most significant places left out so far in the show.

FunLover18

I thought Olly took the vows

jebidiah

rawn wrote: »

When Mirri Maz Duhr cursed Dany in the first season, didn't the show leave out the part about her being barren?

Don't know 100%, but I think the "Sun rises in the west and sets in the east" line refers to that.

I think she said that to the Khal last week when he said she'd give him a baby.

Dyr

J. Marston wrote: »

Where was Dawn?! The twin swords did look cool though and Arthur Dayne did fight like an absolute badass.

tbh I can't stand that sort of errol flynn panto routine, I suppose its what people are primed to expect

It's the equivalent of the characters suddenly breaking into a chorus of "Oh no, he did'nt!!" "oh yes he did!!"

Dyr

intheclouds wrote: »

Bit harsh hanging Olly, he isn't even a member of the Nights Watch and he was only a kid.

You come at the lord commander you best not miss homes :mad:

bnt

Hans Bricks wrote: »

Is Greatjon dead ? I can't be arsed going back over the Winterfell scene.

In this episode Smalljon says he "died on his own". This is where the show contradicts the books, which have him a captive of the Freys at the Twins since the Red Wedding. I even thought that would have something to do with Smalljon's gift to Ramsay - a possible bargaining chip for Greatjon, but I guess the show's done with him now.

intheclouds wrote: »

Bit harsh hanging Olly, he isn't even a member of the Nights Watch and he was only a kid.

When you play the Game of Thrones: you win or you die.

Ben Gadot

I thought the music being played during the NW execution was familiar but never associated it with Jon.

But I've seen someone mention on Reddit that it's the Fire and Blood motif, which is typically associated with Dany.

EagererBeaver

bnt wrote: »

When you play the Game of Thrones: you win or you die.

The wee prick is lucky he didn't have his throat ripped out by Ghost, but he wasn't playing the game. He was an orphan kid looking for vengeance.

intheclouds

FunLover18 wrote: »

I thought Olly took the vows

Maybe he did, but he was still only a kid who saw the wildlings butcher his family in front of him and ended up an orphan in Castle Black. Then he saw what he perceived as Jon betraying them all by befriending the wildlings. He was also being influenced by the older men.

I'm sad to see Alliser Thorne gone. Owen Teale gave the character a great complexity and in many ways, although I didn't like him, I respected him. He was as brave as anything and wasn't afraid to be out front leading his men. His rousing battle speech in the battle for castle black remains one of my favourite ever scenes in the show.

Not to be nitpicking, but why wouldn't Jamie and Cersei just pay the City Watch to butcher the High Sparrow and the Faith Militant? Or send their own soldiers against them? Or just send an assassin in to get the High Sparrow?

And where the blazes is Littlefinger? And Bronn?

Washington Irving

No sympathy for Olly. If he's big enough to stab the Lord Commander in the heart then he's big enough to face the consequences.

Re: Greatjon Umber; I don't think he was at the Red Wedding in the show and we haven't seen him since so no telling whether he's alive or dead or where he might be. Character probably just got cut.

Turtyturd

How d'ya like them apples Olly?

Dave_The_Sheep

intheclouds wrote: »

I'm sad to see Alliser Thorne gone. Owen Teale gave the character a great complexity and in many ways, although I didn't like him, I respected him. He was as brave as anything and wasn't afraid to be out front leading his men. His rousing battle speech in the battle for castle black remains one of my favourite ever scenes in the show.

Agreed on this point. Great character.

I thought the surrender of Castle Black to Ed and his merry band of Wildings and their bigger brother was a bit out of character for him though. He'd have said "**** it" and gone for the throat.