Compensation for Cyclist Doored by Car

blackmadra

So I got doored today when cycling home. I was in the bike lane and a passenger door of a car that was stopped in traffic opened without warning. I hit the brakes but it clipped me as I went past and I slammed into the back of a parked van. Got the details of the passenger, reg of the car she got out of and the contact details of two witnesses on the street. I put a nice dent and a scratch into the back of the van so I went to the local Garda station to report it. They will contact the van owner.

Anyway there was no permanent damage to me. My knee and elbow took the brunt of the impact. I was able to walk home but in the last hour my knee has swollen quite a bit started hurting a lot more since the shock has gone away. I doubt there will be any lasting damage here, but it does scupper my weekend plans quite a bit. I was planning on a nice cycle up over the Sally Gap tomorrow but looks like my weekend will be spent indoors now. Possibly next weekend too.

Is this worth pursuing in a legal way? Would I be entitled to any significant compensation? Who would be liable, the driver or the passenger?

Thanks in advance for any advice.

MarkAnthony

I'd say it's the driver and you should probably go down the route of claiming from their insurance. If nothing else you'll need sort the van which shouldn't be directly seeing you out of pocket.

To be frank it's probably worth running by a solicitor as even small dents/scratches can be expensive to resolve. An initial phone call with a solicitor shouldn't cost you anything and then you can play it from there.

Hope everything mends well!

Paulw

blackmadra wrote: »

Would I be entitled to any significant compensation?

Compensation for what?

blackmadra

Cheers Mark, I think I'll call a solicitor tomorrow.

Paulw wrote: »

Compensation for what?

For the injury I suffered as a result of the negligence of the driver/passenger. I guess my question is, would I be entitled to any level of compensation for my injury even though it is pretty minor?

Pro Hoc Vice

Paulw wrote: »

Compensation for what?

Medical expences, possible time off work and pain and suffering. I had a fall (my own stupid fault) 2 years ago in cold weather still I can get nasty pain in ankle, if that was someone else's fault I would have considered a claim.

athtrasna

http://www.injuriesboard.ie/eng/

You can estimate your claim on here but I'm not sure you qualify under any of the categories

Pro Hoc Vice

athtrasna wrote: »

http://www.injuriesboard.ie/eng/

You can estimate your claim on here but I'm not sure you qualify under any of the categories

Why not?

blackmadra

Thanks Athrasna for the helpful response. There is a category for knee injuries. It says

"Up to €28,400 – Minor soft tissue injury to knee – good recovery"

I know I would be way down at the lower end of the scale but it might be worth something. It would mostly just make me feel like there was some sort of justice if the driver lost her no claims bonus for the year.

athtrasna

blackmadra wrote: »

Thanks Athrasna for the helpful response. There is a category for knee injuries. It says

"Up to €28,400 – Minor soft tissue injury to knee – good recovery"

I know I would be way down at the lower end of the scale but it might be worth something. It would mostly just make me feel like there was some sort of justice if the driver lost her no claims bonus for the year.

So you want revenge against the driver for the actions of the passenger?

To prove soft tissue damage you will need medical reports and diagnostic imaging.In the meantime grab yourself a bag of frozen peas, better than any ice pack.

Pro Hoc Vice

athtrasna wrote: »

So you want revenge against the driver for the actions of the passenger?

To prove soft tissue damage you will need medical reports and diagnostic imaging.

It is the insured fault as he more than likely did not warn passenger of danger of opening door on cycle path, if the drivers insurance not liable then the passenger may have an award made against him.

Any claim for compensation will require medical reports, I assume the OP will only claim if he has suffered injury and loss.

blackmadra

Firstly I don’t think there is any serious damage done. It is fairly painful to move my knee right now and it has swollen up into a big lump. I’d say it will probably be fine in a two weeks but I am no doctor. I think an MRI would be overkill but I could certainly get a doctors report saying I was somewhat debilitated for a period of time.

I’m also not a solicitor and have never been in a situation like this before so I don’t know how the system works. Is it the drivers fault for not pulling in somewhere safe before letting their passenger out?

In terms of losses, I won't miss work on Monday but I might have to get the bus in. It has also ruined my weekend plans. I'm very active person (running, cycling, gym etc) and I won't be able to partake in any of that for a week or two. How do you put a value on that? And by the way I'm certainly not about to start exaggerating anything. I have given the honest facts here and I'm just wondering if I would be entitled to anything.

Here is a question: if a cyclist was hit by a door in the same way I was, but suffered a more serious injury like a broken bone, would the driver be at fault or the passenger?

athtrasna

Unless you have a medical degree I'd leave it to the doctor to decide if an MRI is necessary, knees are very complicated structures.

The link I sent you has information on how to claim. If you're claiming straight out for an injury it's relatively straight forward. If you're going to try to get further money because your plans are ruined then you really need to talk to a solicitor.

Mongfinder General

So the door that you clipped belonged to a car that was stopped in traffic? How far ahead were the next set of lights?

blackmadra

Mongfinder General wrote: »

So the door that you clipped belonged to a car that was stopped in traffic? How far ahead were the next set of lights?

Yes she was stopped in traffic about 40m from the next lights. Not sure why that is relevant?

vg88

Something similar happened to be. Got left hooked at outside a supervalue. I got the insurance and witnesses, but I only asked 200 for my bike to be fixed and for bandages for my sprained wrist.

I didn't go into insurance or legal route as it was a accident and he was sorry about it. Before you take legal steps, if it was an honest mistake do you really want to hold it against them. Imagine someone in your family making a mistake like this and having to face a huge financial burden.

It's up to you whatever you, just try not to look at as how much money you can get out them.

Pro Hoc Vice

moloner4 wrote: »

Something similar happened to be. Got left hooked at outside a supervalue. I got the insurance and witnesses, but I only asked 200 for my bike to be fixed and for bandages for my sprained wrist.

I didn't go into insurance or legal route as it was a accident and he was sorry about it. Before you take legal steps, if it was an honest mistake do you really want to hold it against them. Imagine someone in your family making a mistake like this and having to face a huge financial burden.

It's up to you whatever you, just try not to look at as how much money you can get out them.

That is what insurance is for, it is my belief the insured driver would more than likely be responsible. Let's look at it another way what if the OP was seriously injured or died would his family say as sure it was only a mistake. It's stupid to open any car door especially in traffic with out looking and just as stupid of the driver who let a passenger get out in traffic.

blackmadra

athtrasna wrote: »

Unless you have a medical degree I'd leave it to the doctor to decide if an MRI is necessary, knees are very complicated structures.
.

Is claiming for an injury not the same as claiming for ruined plans? If broke a bone, I would have something between 3 -6 months of ruined plans plus some pretty severe pain. I would then definitely be entitled to claim for compensation. Thankfully in my case it is probably only going to be 1-2 weeks with not so severe pain. Does that not entitle me to something?

And we wonder why car insurance premiums are going through the roof!

mfceiling

blackmadra wrote: »

I guess my question is, would I be entitled to any level of compensation for my injury even though it is pretty minor?

You forgot where you mentioned "significant" compensation for your "pretty minor" injury.

Mongfinder General

blackmadra wrote: »

Yes she was stopped in traffic about 40m from the next lights. Not sure why that is relevant?

Hmmm, that could be a determining factor in court. If the lights were red and you did not endeavour to slow down approaching a red light then this may work against you as there is a reasonable expectation that you would reduce your speed in this situation. The impact and injury to your knee as well as the damage caused to the van may well indicate that you did not exercise due care to other road users in that you did not reduce speed accordingly. there may be a case for contributory negligence on your part. Also I'm sure that if the defendant has a decent solicitor they will review cc tv in the area leading up to the incident. If you have broken any rules of the road in the lead up to the crash this may be a mitigating factor

blackmadra

moloner4 wrote: »

I didn't go into insurance or legal route as it was a accident and he was sorry about it. Before you take legal steps, if it was an honest mistake do you really want to hold it against them. Imagine someone in your family making a mistake like this and having to face a huge financial burden.

Well yeah it was an accident and she said sorry but if I am entitled to compensation based on what happened to me then I want to pursue it. I don't think there is any damage to my bike either. Fair play to you for being more understanding than I sound right now. But in the direct aftermath of the event, I guess I am feeling a little hard done by. Maybe I'll chill out a bit in a day or two.

Pro Hoc Vice

[Deleted User] wrote: »

And we wonder why car insurance premiums are going through the roof!

PIAB was supposed to sort that but funny thing is cost of insurance going up. I notice the Insurance companies don't show figures to show rice in payouts to justify their increases, would be easy to show here are our total payout 10 years ago 5 years ago and now. If anyone has such figures I would love to see them.

vg88

blackmadra wrote: »

Well yeah it was an accident and she said sorry but if I am entitled to compensation based on what happened to me then I want to pursue it. I don't think there is any damage to my bike either. Fair play to you for being more understanding than I sound right now. But in the direct aftermath of the event, I guess I am feeling a little hard done by. Maybe I'll chill out a bit in a day or two.

I gave myself two days to make my decision. Just take your time and don't rush it on emotions.

blackmadra

Deleted User wrote: »

And we wonder why car insurance premiums are going through the roof!

I'm not trying to screw the system here. I'm not telling any lies or distorting the truth. If I'm entitled to compensation based on the fact presented then it's hardly my fault premiums are going up.

Frynge

blackmadra wrote: »

Is claiming for an injury not the same as claiming for ruined plans? If broke a bone, I would have something between 3 -6 months of ruined plans plus some pretty severe pain. I would then definitely be entitled to claim for compensation. Thankfully in my case it is probably only going to be 1-2 weeks with not so severe pain. Does that not entitle me to something?

I think you're going to have to change your attitude fairly sharpish, you are not entitled to anything.

If you have suffered a loss because of the driver or passenger you could very well be compensated for that loss.

Quite frankly it is things like this that have insurance so high in this country. By the sounds of things the only injury you have is dollar signs burning into your eyes.

blackmadra

Mongfinder General wrote: »

Hmmm, that could be a determining factor in court. If the lights were red and you did not endeavour to slow down approaching a red light then this may work against you as there is a reasonable expectation that you would reduce your speed in this situation. The impact and injury to your knee as well as the damage caused to the van may well indicate that you did not exercise due care to other road users in that you did not reduce speed accordingly. there may be a case for contributory negligence on your part. Also I'm sure that if the defendant has a decent solicitor they will review cc tv in the area leading up to the incident. If you have broken any rules of the road in the lead up to the crash this may be a mitigating factor

She opened the car door into an active cycle lane without looking first. You would need a very good solicitor to argue it was the cyclists fault.

I wasn't going that fast at the time or I would probably have sustained much worse injuries.

blackmadra

moloner4 wrote: »

I gave myself two days to make my decision. Just take your time and don't rush it on emotions.

You probably did the right thing. I genuinely don't know how the system works and came onto boards now to see if someone could enlighten me. Certainly haven't made any decision yet.

blackmadra

Frynge wrote: »

Quite frankly it is things like this that have insurance so high in this country.

You're right! If drivers paid more attention to their surroundings insurance premiums would be a lot lower.

uck51js9zml2yt

The driver is responsible for the passengers actions.
What gets me is that you've said your bike is fine and you don't think there is any lasting damage to you, so what exactly are you trying to claim for?

The only one I can see who should be claiming is the van driver.
Also the fact remains that you didn't cycle with due care and attention expecting the unexpected.

As a driver, if a cyclist was involved in an accident with me who had no lights and dark clothing, id still be responsible.

I'm sorry op but unless a medic says you have an injury , and they might ,I think you need to build a bridge and get over it.

Hrududu

blackmadra wrote: »

I'm not trying to screw the system here. I'm not telling any lies or distorting the truth. If I'm entitled to compensation based on the fact presented then it's hardly my fault premiums are going up.

Compensation for what though?

She was definitely in the wrong and you should not be out of pocket for this. So if your bike was damaged etc I would try to work it out with the driver, if they weren't willing to pay then go to the insurance company.

But it sounds (and I might be wrong) that no damage was done to your bike. Your injury so far is a sore knee. So I'm not sure what you think you're entitled to. Just some money because it happened?

In saying that definitely keep an eye on your knee. I found when I had an accident that it was only a couple of days after that things started swelling etc so take care.

Frynge

blackmadra wrote: »

You're right! If drivers paid more attention to their surroundings insurance premiums would be a lot lower.

If people who suffer the smallest of inconveniences didn't have the first thought of running to a solicitor waving their hands shouting "compensation, compensation, what am I entitled to!" Insurance premiums would be a lot lower.

In fairness you haven't even slept on it you and you are online wondering about how much you are going to get for your 'injury', you have a bit of a bump on your knee, get over it and get over yourself while you are at it.

The only thing you should be concerned about in terms of insurance is getting the details of the drivers insurance to the van owner.

Uriel.

Elias Slimy Tango wrote: »

The driver is responsible for the passengers actions.
What gets me is that you've said your bike is fine and you don't think there is any lasting damage to you, so what exactly are you trying to claim for?

The only one I can see who should be claiming is the van driver.
Also the fact remains that you didn't cycle with due care and attention expecting the unexpected.

As a driver, if a cyclist was involved in an accident with me who had no lights and dark clothing, id still be responsible.

I'm sorry op but unless a medic says you have an injury , and they might ,I think you need to build a bridge and get over it.

Sounds to me like he's trying to claim because he feels he can, not because there's actually a genuine reason (i.e. A loss). Opportunism appears to be the order of the day here. Quite disheartening but not surprising the way things are going.

Rayne Wooney

Elias Slimy Tango wrote: »

Also the fact remains that you didn't cycle with due care and attention expecting the unexpected.

.

That is ridiculous to be honest, you wouldn't get past the front door into the big bad world if people had to expect the unexpected the way you are trying to pitch it here. What was he supposed to do?

OP if you are injured fair enough but if not and the van driver doesn't try to claim off you I don't see why you should be compensated.

blackmadra

Hrududu wrote: »

Compensation for what though?

She was definitely in the wrong and you should not be out of pocket for this. So if your bike was damaged etc I would try to work it out with the driver, if they weren't willing to pay then go to the insurance company.

But it sounds (and I might be wrong) that no damage was done to your bike. Your injury so far is a sore knee. So I'm not sure what you think you're entitled to. Just some money because it happened?

In saying that definitely keep an eye on your knee. I found when I had an accident that it was only a couple of days after that things started swelling etc so take care.

Elias Slimy Tango wrote: »

The driver is responsible for the passengers actions.
What gets me is that you've said your bike is fine and you don't think there is any lasting damage to you, so what exactly are you trying to claim for?.

Well basically yeah! I haven't gone a doctor yet and I think my bike is fine. I'm not out of pocket. Honestly I don't know how the system works so I came here for advice. I was simply coming home from work this evening and due to the negligence of a driver I am now pretty much stuck indoors for the next few weeks. Probably feeling a bit sorry for myself.

Do I deserve to be compensated for this financially? Most of the commenters don't seem to think so. But I though that is what insurance was for! Btw I pay car insurance too. Obviously the compensation should be proportional to the injury suffered, which in this case is not that bad (hopefully). Is there a minimum cut off level?

I'm not a scam artist. I didn't ask for this but if the law says that I can claim against her insurance because I got doored then why shouldn't I? I'm not exaggerating anything.

Elias Slimy Tango wrote: »

The only one I can see who should be claiming is the van driver.
Also the fact remains that you didn't cycle with due care and attention expecting the unexpected.
.

I think the van owner would want to claim alright. That's why I gave his details to the guards so they could contact him. He may not have noticed the damage to the back door right away.

blackmadra

Frynge wrote: »

The only thing you should be concerned about in terms of insurance is getting the details of the drivers insurance to the van owner.

Yeah I gave the Guards the details of both vehicles and the contact details of the driver so hopefully he's not left out of pocket

Frynge

You have already said that you are an active person, and yes this might affect your planned activity for the next two weeks but you going for a walk instead of a run tomorrow is thankfully the sum of your being 'put out'.

blackmadra

Uriel. wrote: »

Sounds to me like he's trying to claim because he feels he can, not because there's actually a genuine reason (i.e. A loss). Opportunism appears to be the order of the day here. Quite disheartening but not surprising the way things are going.

Well I guess that depends how you define a loss. I won't be able to ride my bike for a week or two through no fault of my own. Unless you are a cyclist you don't understand the significance of that.

Maybe it's not enough of a loss to justify compensation. I don't know! I came here to see if anyone could enlighten me. I haven't decided what I'll do yet.

My brother was a bicycle courier for a few years, he got knocked off his bike twice, the same as the OP.
He didn't do anything at the time, thought he wasn't hurt, he didn't even get details of the drivers.
He now has shoulder and elbow problems, has spent a fortune on MRI scans, physiotherapy and doctors fees.
He is out thousands of euros over the years.
Had to stop that job.
Point is OP, you never know what long term injuries you may have, so don't worry too much about compo right now, but keep details of all medical fees etc you have.
You might find 6 months down the line, there could be injuries you didn't realise you had.

blackmadra

Frynge wrote: »

You have already said that you are an active person, and yes this might affect your planned activity for the next two weeks but you going for a walk instead of a run tomorrow is thankfully the sum of your being 'put out'.

That's not too far off I guess although I won't be walking very far. I guess if you boil it all down, someone accidentally busted up my knee with their car and now I can't use it fully for a while. Under the law does that entitle me to compensation?

I'm asking about the law, not do you think that I should be entitled. Clearly a lot of people here don't

Grolschevik

blackmadra wrote: »

someone accidentally busted up my knee with their car and now I can't use it fully for a while. Under the law does that entitle me to compensation?

I'm asking about the law,

Really, you'll have to talk to a solicitor to get this info. Personally, I think you should call one to ask.

uck51js9zml2yt

blackmadra wrote: »

Well basically yeah! I haven't gone a doctor yet and I think my bike is fine. I'm not out of pocket. Honestly I don't know how the system works so I came here for advice. I was simply coming home from work this evening and due to the negligence of a driver I am now pretty much stuck indoors for the next few weeks. Probably feeling a bit sorry for myself.

Do I deserve to be compensated for this financially? Most of the commenters don't seem to think so. But I though that is what insurance was for! Btw I pay car insurance too. Obviously the compensation should be proportional to the injury suffered, which in this case is not that bad (hopefully). Is there a minimum cut off level?

I'm not a scam artist. I didn't ask for this but if the law says that I can claim against her insurance because I got doored then why shouldn't I? I'm not exaggerating anything.



I think the van owner would want to claim alright. That's why I gave his details to the guards so they could contact him. He may not have noticed the damage to the back door right away.

Insurance is their to cover loss due to injury or damage. Your not at a loss and as dar as your aware done have any lasting injuries.

You're responsible to drive/ cycle with due care and attention as well as the other person.
If I'm driving I've to do so with the expectation a car door may open or a pedestrian may walk out in front of me.same goes for me when I'm on my bike.

ED E

This is why DCC refused for years to build skateparks for kids. Compo culture at its finest.


All drivers(which cyclists are includes as under vienna 68) have a duty of care to be able to stop, what would happen if a child stepped out from behind a car? You hit them. As a cyclist I know this isn't always possible to avoid (had a very close call on Aungier St before with two young girls) but legally you could be considered at fault. PIAB allow 9 months to claim so sit on it just in case but really I wouldn't go stoking a fire that could be turned back on you. Person in the rear is "always" responsible.

Grolschevik

ED E wrote: »

what would happen if a child stepped out from behind a car? You hit them.

This is close to being the car/bike version of Godwin's Law.

To reiterate the OP:

blackmadra wrote: »

. I was in the bike lane and a passenger door of a car that was stopped in traffic opened without warning. I hit the brakes but it clipped me as I went past and I slammed into the back of a parked van.

In other news, a cyclist who was in a collision with a pedestrian two days ago died today.

http://www.independent.ie/irish-news/news/tributes-paid-to-cyclist-who-died-after-collision-with-a-pedestrian-in-the-phoenix-park-34687597.html

Tar.Aldarion

blackmadra wrote: »

Well basically yeah! I haven't gone a doctor yet and I think my bike is fine. I'm not out of pocket. Honestly I don't know how the system works so I came here for advice. I was simply coming home from work this evening and due to the negligence of a driver I am now pretty much stuck indoors for the next few weeks. Probably feeling a bit sorry for myself.

Do I deserve to be compensated for this financially? Most of the commenters don't seem to think so. But I though that is what insurance was for! Btw I pay car insurance too. Obviously the compensation should be proportional to the injury suffered, which in this case is not that bad (hopefully). Is there a minimum cut off level?

I'm not a scam artist. I didn't ask for this but if the law says that I can claim against her insurance because I got doored then why shouldn't I? I'm not exaggerating anything.



I think the van owner would want to claim alright. That's why I gave his details to the guards so they could contact him. He may not have noticed the damage to the back door right away.

Quite reasonable questions I feel, I guess just contact the injuries board and see what they think. They do award very low compensation amounts too.

E.G.

Highest Award 2013: €972,898
Lowest Award 2013: €70

RedemptionZ

He was doored while cycling in a cycling lane. He is entitled to claim insurance. We don't know the financial situation of the OP and he may well struggle to pay for the doctor and any possible physios. I was doored before in a similar situation but the person stayed in the car and they drove off and I ended up doing a ligament in my knee and was out of action for months and left with to foot the bill.

The OP's injury mightn't be as severe but you really never know with the knee, the injury could be lingering for a long while unless he goes to the doctor and possibly gets an MRI scan, all of which cost money. People using this as a stick to beat 'compo culture' and high insurance rates with is bizarre. He was injured directly due to someone else's actions.

prinzeugen

RedemptionZ wrote: »

He was doored while cycling in a cycling lane. He is entitled to claim insurance.

Claim for what? The only damage seems to be to the car and van. To dent a van means the OP must have been going at some whack.. Not expecting the unexpected!

Its commonsense to slow down when passing stationary traffic for just this reason..

Being on a cycle in a cycle lane does not make you immune from blame.

MarkAnthony

OP anyone who makes a 'claim' for anything is, on Boards, immediately responsible for simultaneously preventing conkers being played and ruining Xmas.

The only possible argument here is that there may be contributory negligence which hasnt been a total bar in well over 100 years.

There is, however, a very good reason not to progress this with a solicitor... Tomorrow's Saturday. :pac:

Insurance keeps going up because people drive like Muppets and hurt people. Lay the fault where it belongs.

prinzeugen

MarkAnthony wrote: »

Insurance keeps going up because people drive like Muppets and hurt people. Lay the fault where it belongs.

I forgot cyclists are saints and victims and never do wrong! But that is for another thread/forum....

MarkAnthony

prinzeugen wrote: »

I forgot cyclists are saints and victims and never do wrong! But that is for another thread/forum....

That's pedestrians.

as John Masefield said, all I ask is a pedestrian with a tall PI case and a star to steer her by.

endacl

OP. You ar perfectly 'entitled' to pursue a claim. There's no law against asking. Whether you 'should', of course, is a matter best left to your knee and your conscience.

I've been doored with no serious effects before - I'd be interested to know if there is an effective mechanism for complaint leaving compo aside?

I went under a car that pulled out in front of me a few years ago. Banged the elbow, got up, glared, moved on. Over the next few weeks it worsened but faded again and its only now two years later that I'm really feeling the long-term effects- not full movement, ache in certain positions, etc.

I think at a minimum the price of an MRI scan and a physio session to ensure you're not carrying more damage than you might think is a very proportionate and reasonable cost for the responsible party to bear in these circumstances- I'm sorry now I didn't pursue this and anyone telling you to feel guilty about taking such steps has an agenda they're following imo.