Why is HL maths so ridiculously hard?

Bazinga_N

Gebgbegb wrote: »

Would I be wrong in guessing that a large portion of schools who do have App. Maths offer it outside school hours?

In my school it's offered as a subject across from Classical Studies, LCVP and extra French (for those who need a language for LCVP).

In my friends school it's just offered as another subject across a band like anything else. So personally the schools I'm aware of offer it in school hours.

TMJM96

Gebgbegb wrote: »

Would I be wrong in guessing that a large portion of schools who do have App. Maths offer it outside school hours?

Up until recently schools in my area didn't offer it at all, one school will have a full class for fifth years this August. I think another school tried offering it after school but that just didn't suit most people or some people couldn't take an extra subject so it fell apart.

Everyone I've met in college from large towns or cities had Applied Maths as a subject on offer. So obviously, the bigger the school the more likely it will be on offer.

reason vs religion

I would expect that most medium and large schools would offer it as part of the timetable. I have noticed one or two large girls schools not offering it, though, which is perhaps understandable considering girls make up only a quarter of takers.

AM uptake has increased quite significantly recently: +12% yoy and +40% on the average of 06-10. Possibility that Project Maths has been partly responsible. If that trend continues, it's probably likely that a "critical mass" will be reached allowing smaller schools to start offering it.

skippy1977

reason vs religion wrote: »

I would expect that most medium and large schools would offer it as part of the timetable. I have noticed one or two large girls schools not offering it, though, which is perhaps understandable considering girls make up only a quarter of takers.

AM uptake has increased quite significantly recently: +12% yoy and +40% on the average of 06-10. Possibility that Project Maths has been partly responsible. If that trend continues, it's probably likely that a "critical mass" will be reached allowing smaller schools to start offering it.

A lot of schools can't offer it due to the very small numbers interested (and capable) of taking the subject. I don't see that changing in smaller schools any time soon. I know of fairly large schools that are trying but struggling to justify it on the timetable. One offers it outside of school (teacher doing in their own time), one school has a class opposite PE, another opposite LCVP with half the class at the back studying and half the class trying to do the course. Both these scenarios are on a 2/3 class a week basis.

The Applied Maths course is one that is likely to change in the coming years and this may be what results in a greater number of schools catering for it. Whilst numbers might be on the rise....3 times as many people in the country are taking Foundation Maths as Applied Maths.

Teaching both I wouldn't say that Project Maths helps Applied Maths a whole lot but I would say that any student who can commit to Applied Maths would make improvements in Project Maths. If anything I think that Project Maths has resulted in students having a much poorer Algebra and Trigonometry skill set, vital skills for Applied Maths.

TMJM96

reason vs religion wrote: »

I would expect that most medium and large schools would offer it as part of the timetable. I have noticed one or two large girls schools not offering it, though, which is perhaps understandable considering girls make up only a quarter of takers.

AM uptake has increased quite significantly recently: +12% yoy and +40% on the average of 06-10. Possibility that Project Maths has been partly responsible. If that trend continues, it's probably likely that a "critical mass" will be reached allowing smaller schools to start offering it.

Funny you say that, the only schools who offer AM in my town and area are all girl schools.

emersyn

reason vs religion wrote: »

I would expect that most medium and large schools would offer it as part of the timetable. I have noticed one or two large girls schools not offering it, though, which is perhaps understandable considering girls make up only a quarter of takers.

I would say it's the other way round - far fewer girls take it because it's generally not offered in their schools.

reason vs religion

skippy1977 wrote: »

A lot of schools can't offer it due to the very small numbers interested (and capable) of taking the subject. I don't see that changing in smaller schools any time soon. I know of fairly large schools that are trying but struggling to justify it on the timetable. One offers it outside of school (teacher doing in their own time), one school has a class opposite PE, another opposite LCVP with half the class at the back studying and half the class trying to do the course. Both these scenarios are on a 2/3 class a week basis.

The Applied Maths course is one that is likely to change in the coming years and this may be what results in a greater number of schools catering for it. Whilst numbers might be on the rise....3 times as many people in the country are taking Foundation Maths as Applied Maths.

Teaching both I wouldn't say that Project Maths helps Applied Maths a whole lot but I would say that any student who can commit to Applied Maths would make improvements in Project Maths. If anything I think that Project Maths has resulted in students having a much poorer Algebra and Trigonometry skill set, vital skills for Applied Maths.

I mean, to be clear, I'm not suggesting Applied Maths is suddenly going to be rolled out across Ireland's rural schools. But increasing numbers could result in schools that currently have to make special arrangements being able to offer it as a timetabled subject. And once it's on the timetable, it will seem less daunting and specialist and hopefully further increase numbers.

Regarding the potential consequences of Project Maths on uptake, I wasn't so much suggesting that PM is helping with AM as that the contexts and applications aspect of the curriculum is encouraging more students to give AM a try. It's just speculation, though.

emersyn wrote: »

I would say it's the other way round - far fewer girls take it because it's generally not offered in their schools.

That's, no doubt, partly responsible. But the fact that the proportion of girls doing Higher Physics is almost exactly the same as doing AM suggests that girls are less interested in taking it (for whatever reason). Now, again, no doubt, there is reverse causality when it comes to Physics being offered in girls schools, but undoubtedly to a far lesser extent than AM.



Obviously we're going a little bit off topic here.

Robbiert

emersyn wrote: »

I would say it's the other way round - far fewer girls take it because it's generally not offered in their schools.

In my mixed school at least, only three out of the eighteen students are girls in 5th/6th year applied maths.

reason vs religion

Robbiert wrote: »

In my mixed school at least, only three out of the eighteen students are girls in 5th/6th year applied maths.

I don't really understand why that unsubstantiated claim got four Likes. In the same way that Home Ec's 9:1 gender split isn't likely to be the result of boys around Ireland being prevented from taking the subject, AM's 1:3 split is more likely to be the result of different preferences, which the Physics gender split would seem to support.

In the UK, only 23% of those taking A Level Physics and 27% of those taking Further Maths are girls.

Edit: and those A Level stats are actually uptake of part I of A Level; girls are less likely than boys to continue to part II in both.

skippy1977

reason vs religion wrote: »

I don't really understand why that unsubstantiated claim got four Likes. In the same way that Home Ec's 9:1 gender split isn't likely to be the result of boys around Ireland being prevented from taking the subject, AM's 1:3 split is more likely to be the result of different preferences, which the Physics gender split would seem to support.

In the UK, only 23% of those taking A Level Physics and 27% of those taking Further Maths are girls.

Edit: and those A Level stats are actually uptake of part I of A Level; girls are less likely than boys to continue to part II in both.

Well I clicked the thumbs up as it was the unsubstantiated claim that I liked the most. Truth is it's very hard to know whether the girls schools are not offering it as the girls don't want to do it or whether the girls aren't doing it because it is not being offered. I prefer to think the latter....but no idea. Not that it adds anything to this discussion but the best student in my class is a girl....better than me!!

It is a shame that all students can't do the exact subjects they want. I know in our school, we have to make difficult choices every year...some years we have no Accountancy, next year due to numbers we have no DCG...we may get it back the following year but then something else goes.

reason vs religion

skippy1977 wrote: »

Well I clicked the thumbs up as it was the unsubstantiated claim that I liked the most. Truth is it's very hard to know whether the girls schools are not offering it as the girls don't want to do it or whether the girls aren't doing it because it is not being offered. I prefer to think the latter....but no idea. Not that it adds anything to this discussion but the best student in my class is a girl....better than me!!

It is a shame that all students can't do the exact subjects they want. I know in our school, we have to make difficult choices every year...some years we have no Accountancy, next year due to numbers we have no DCG...we may get it back the following year but then something else goes.

But neither of my claims was unsubstantiated! 1) uptake of AM by girls is low: verifiable by looking at the stats. And, in response, 2) that, as Physics has a similarly low uptake by girls and is probably provided by most schools (at least, many more than AM), it's likely that much of the low uptake can be explained by low demand - which may be false, but is definitely a substantiation! The UK comparison points towards my conclusion, as well.

I'm not making any judgments about suitability or aptitude. My personal opinion is it relates to gender norms.

I agree, it is very regrettable. I repeated my lc, during which I took Applied Maths, but I had to take Business instead during my first attempt because of timetable restrictions. (I could have either taken my best subject from the JC, Accounting, or take a punt on a subject I was interested in but in which I was worried I wouldn't do well. I did the first.) It was very painful having to study something I didn't want to.

lostatsea

Anybody know where I could get the LC Maths solutions for SEC papers other than the Marking Schemes?

legocrazy505

lostatsea wrote: »

Anybody know where I could get the LC Maths solutions for SEC papers other than the Marking Schemes?

I have ones downloaded from educate.ie that are very good.

lostatsea

legocrazy505 wrote: »

I have ones downloaded from educate.ie that are very good.

Thank a million. They are brilliant - I never knew about them.