Is it legal to open someone's post in work marked 'private and confidential'?

2rkehij30qtza5

Is it illegal to open someone's post in work if it's marked private and confidential clearly on the outside? This has happened to me..the letter left on my tray in work and then the envelope mysteriously being 'missing'....only for me doing a little investigation and finding said envelope in someone's bin. Same person who opened my letter has previously opened private and confidential post on me and then apologised "oh I made a mistake" when in reality she is just a really nosy biddy. I'm infuriated now as the letter she opened and then physically date-stamped was of a very personal nature (was unsolicited post but nonetheless v private) and it's blatantly clear that it was private from both the envelope and the contents. Thanks

moc moc a moc

Legal or not, I'd be lodging an official complaint with management/HR. Evidently you have let her get away with this before - if you never give her cause to take your objection seriously, she will never stop.

There is, however, the question of why you're receiving mail of personal nature in work to begin with? Surely it would make more sense to make sure anyone trying to contact you with private information sends it to your home address? Prevention is better than cure.

nuac

"Private and confidential" on an envelope should always be respected.

Not sure if any offence or actionable tort committed by anyone else opening such a letter, but it is very bad form

2rkehij30qtza5

moc moc a moc wrote: »

Legal or not, I'd be lodging an official complaint with management/HR. Evidently you have let her get away with this before - if you never give her cause to take your objection seriously, she will never stop.

There is, however, the question of why you're receiving mail of personal nature in work to begin with? Surely it would make more sense to make sure anyone trying to contact you with private information sends it to your home address? Prevention is better than cure.

Thanks. The odd time I'll get post in work that is private if it's going to be a large envelope that might not fit into my postbox at home. (Only have a small postbox attached to external wall at home and can't modify it as am renting). The letter in question in the current instance would have been coming to my home address...so I thought...but i had previously given them my work postal address due to them posting me a large envelope a number of months ago...they then used my work address for the current correspondsance.

Tom Young

See here: http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/eli/1983/act/24/section/84/enacted/en/html#sec84

It's an offence

2rkehij30qtza5

Tom Young wrote: »

See here: http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/eli/1983/act/24/section/84/enacted/en/html#sec84

It's an offence

Many thanks

GM228

How was the leffter "left" on your desk? i.e is it an internal letter or a letter sent via a postal service provider?

The offence only applies to post sent via a postal service provider.

This is the current provision but more or less the same as the last link.

http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/eli/2011/act/21/section/53/enacted/en/html#sec53

An addressee is a person, a person is both a physical being and a company under law so whilst it's addressed to you it's also addressed to your employers address so could it be argued that an employer isn't committing any offence if they open the mail as it's also addressed to them hypothetically speaking?

2rkehij30qtza5

GM228 wrote: »

How was the leffter "left" on your desk? i.e is it an internal letter or a letter sent via a postal service provider?

The offence only applies to post sent via a postal service provider.

This is the current provision but more or less the same as the last link.

http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/eli/2011/act/21/section/53/enacted/en/html#sec53

An addressee is a person, a person is both a physical being and a company under law so whilst it's addressed to you it's also addressed to your employers address so could it be argued that an employer isn't committing any offence if they open the mail as it's also addressed to them hypothetically speaking?

It wasn't left on my desk. It was left on my tray in a communal area where all post is left in individuals' trays/cubby holes. It was sent by An Post...wasn't internal mail

harr

Yosef Great Nail wrote: »

It wasn't left on my desk. It was left on my tray in a communal area where all post is left in individuals' trays/cubby holes. It was sent by An Post...wasn't internal mail

Well it's time to speak to HR/ management, maybe this person is opening other people's mail as well and then dumping it....it's highly illegal what she is doing and management will have to sort it out...god only knows how many other pieces of mail she has tampered with.. I certainly wouldn't be happy working alongside someone like that.

Butters1979

It's illegal to open someone else's mail, regardless if is says 'private or confidential' or not.
OP, do not accept this. I would raise it with HR and mention quite clearly how this is illegal.

2rkehij30qtza5

Thanks everyone. I'll have to contact HR

Mrs OBumble

Butters1979 wrote: »

It's illegal to open someone else's mail, regardless if is says 'private or confidential' or not.
OP, do not accept this. I would raise it with HR and mention quite clearly how this is illegal.

Tom Young wrote: »

See here: http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/eli/1983/act/24/section/84/enacted/en/html#sec84

It's an offence

Hang on, it's not that clear-cut. Firstly, note that the law (as linked to above) says:

Subsection (1) shall not apply to any person who is acting—

(a) in virtue of any power conferred on the company by section 83 , or

(b) in pursuance of a direction issued by the Minister under section 110 , or

(c) under other lawful authority.

The last bit about lawful authority is what applies to mail you get at work.

Companies usually have someone whose designated job it is to open the incoming mail, to date it and to log the receipt, and to assign the correspondence to the correct person (which may not be the person it was addressed to).

Sometimes there is a company policy not to open mail marked "private and confidential".

But sometimes there is a policy that private-and-confidential should be ignored, or that only mail for manager should be treated in this way.

Staff in general should not be receiving private mail at work, and if they are the employer has a right (and possibly even a responsibility under health and safety / stress management) to know about it.


OP, if the person who opened your mail doesn't have mail-opening as part of their job, then you have an issue to take up with HR. Ditto if they do, and there's a policy about not opening P&C mail. Otherwise, I think it's a non-issue.


(And in future, sign up to Parcel Motel or something, and get stuff that's too bit for your box delivered there: your employer is not your personal address!)

Graham

Companies or individuals cannot just decide they are a 'lawful authority' regardless of policy.

OP check your employee handbook before approaching HR. Some companies have policies about personal mail being sent to work.

Del2005

Graham wrote: »

Companies or individuals cannot just decide they are a 'lawful authority' regardless of policy.

OP check your employee handbook before approaching HR. Some companies have policies about personal mail being sent to work.

IIRC An Post deliver to the address not the person, so once the letter is inside the building it's considered delivered. Inside the building would it then be considered internal mail and not covered by the statute?

Graham

Del2005 wrote: »

IIRC An Post deliver to the address not the person, so once the letter is inside the building it's considered delivered. Inside the building would it then be considered internal mail and not covered by the statute?

I'm open to correction, do you have a source?

stoplooklisten

I always think it's a bit dodgy employees getting stuff delivered to work, it could be drugs or other contraband.

Speedwell

When I was an executive assistant working for an international company years ago, we were required to open, sort, and preprocess all of the mail for the executives we worked for. After a few "P&C" mails, the office manager got us X-assts and secretaries together and we decided we would refuse to open any envelope marked so. The executives kicked up a fuss (I cannot imagine why; they just told us "we expect you to do your jobs the way we tell you") but the CEO backed us up. Even at the express and insistent direction of the executives, it was considered too much risk for us; we didn't want to be drawn in to any legal messes on our own behalf or that of the company. I can't even fathom why someone would voluntarily incur that risk unless they were literally too stupid to be allowed to work in an office.

Princess Consuela Bananahammock

stoplooklisten wrote: »

I always think it's a bit dodgy employees getting stuff delivered to work, it could be drugs or other contraband.

True, but said person opening the mail does not know this and if suspisious, is not in authority to act this way. (Of ocurse, I'm guessing the second part on the basis that there was an apology after the first occurance).

Palmach

As the owner of a company I open ALL letters that are addressed to my business address irrespective of what name is on them or if has private or any other word on it. You want personal mail get it sent to your house address.

Graham

Palmach wrote: »

As the owner of a company I open ALL letters that are addressed to my business address irrespective of what name is on them or if has private or any other word on it. You want personal mail get it sent to your house address.

Just because you do it, that doesn't make it legal.

Speedwell

Palmach wrote: »

As the owner of a company I open ALL letters that are addressed to my business address irrespective of what name is on them or if has private or any other word on it. You want personal mail get it sent to your house address.

Wow, most company owners I've known aren't also secretaries, go you. Do you also answer all the phones on the theory that all calls to your business are meant for your ears, and read all the e-mails before forwarding them on?

Palmach

Palmach wrote: »

As the owner of a company I open ALL letters that are addressed to my business address irrespective of what name is on them or if has private or any other word on it. You want personal mail get it sent to your house address.

if it was unlike the person lets say, a one off, though addressed to said person in a small jiffy bag marked private, you'd still tear into it? rather than just passing it on? correct?

wow, business at palmack private investigators must be booming so!!

what a nice boss you are, lets hope someone orders an ounce of Anthrax some time soon.

stoplooklisten

rusty cole wrote: »

wow, business at palmack private investigators must be booming so!!

what a nice boss you are, lets hope someone orders an ounce of Anthrax some time soon.

So you have no problem if your boss started using your home adress to get his business letters?

Speedwell

rusty cole wrote: »

wow, business at palmack private investigators must be booming so!!

Naah, seriously now, in my long history of being a secretary, executive assistant, and office manager in temporary and permanent capacities, I know Palmach's scenario is not how any office works in reality unless the owner works alone.

L1011

Palmach wrote: »

As the owner of a company I open ALL letters that are addressed to my business address irrespective of what name is on them or if has private or any other word on it. You want personal mail get it sent to your house address.

Let me guess, your company hasn't actually got any staff?

If you actually have staff (or a business, for that matter) and you have time to do that...

sbsquarepants

Is it not a simple of case that if you are using the jobs resources, their computers, their phones, their buildings or vehicles - they have every right to look at what you are doing. Emails, phone calls, letters are all fair game, if you want to keep something private - don't do it in work, simple!
If Janet the nosy receptionist opens up your discreet brown paper package containing your mail order drugs, your gold plated rampant rabbit, or the bad news about your STD results - you really only have yourself to blame

Graham

sbsquarepants wrote: »

Is it not a simple of case that if you are using the jobs resources, their computers, their phones, their buildings or vehicles - they have every right to look at what you are doing. Emails, phone calls, letters are all fair game, if you want to keep something private - don't do it in work, simple!

I don't see anything that suggests the law stops at the office door.

Avatar MIA

My understanding is that statutory protection stops once the letter is delivered to the address.

After that if the person that opens the post is the normal person opening the post then Private and Personal doesn't add any protection, it's simply a curtesy not to open.

That's not to say it's not very rude, but you've no come back on the company - and, strictly speaking, you should not receive personal post at your company's address (but we all do it, myself included).

Your only outlet is to complain on a privacy issue, but I've a feeling the busy body knows she's on safe ground.

Graham

Avatar MIA wrote: »

My understanding is that statutory protection stops once the letter is delivered to the address.

That was suggested earlier in the thread, any source?

Avatar MIA

Graham wrote: »

That was suggested earlier in the thread, any source?

Me.

I'm passing on my understanding from what I've read previously. Am I going to search for that information now? No... and you're not even the OP