4NCL

prey

4NCL
Sam Collins v Nigel Short
1. e4 c6
2. d4 d5
3. Nd2 dxe4
4. Nxe4 Nd7
5. Ng5 Ngf6
6. Bd3 g6
7. N1f3 Bg7
8. O-O O-O
9. c3 a5
10. a4 Nd5
11. Re1 b6
12. Qe2 Ra7
13. h4 N7f6
14. Ne5 Rc7
15. h5 Nxh5
16. Qxh5 h6
17. Nexf7 Rxf7
18. Nxf7
1-0

Tim Harding

In one swoop against poor Nigel, Sam won back (most of) the points he donated to other Irish players in the NCC the previous weekend.
Unfortunately his team lost anyway yesterday.

Right now Sam has White against IM Harriet Hunt and it's live:
https://chess24.com/en/watch/live-tournaments/4ncl-division-1c-2015/6/3/2

The final round of the 4NCL is tomorrow.

Tim Harding

Both Gonzaga and now Enniscorthy have entered Division 3 of the Four Nations Chess League, which I think is the first time ever that two Irish teams have played the 4NCL in the same season.

Gonzaga (even without Sam Collins but they will have Stephen Jessel) have an excellent chance of winning promotion.

Who is going to be playing for Enniscorthy? Have they borrowed some talent from elsewhere?

cdeb

How strong is Div 3 of the 4NCL?

Enniscorthy should get promoted from Div 4 of Leinster, but Div 3 of 4NCL is quite some jump!

Will it interfere with their O'Hanlon campaign?

Edit - here's the teams in each division; are they skipping over Div 4?

Also, should the league now be the 5NCL, or are we assuming a United Ireland in the wake of Brexit?

Tim Harding

cdeb wrote: »

How strong is Div 3 of the 4NCL?

Enniscorthy should get promoted from Div 4 of Leinster, but Div 3 of 4NCL is quite some jump!

Will it interfere with their O'Hanlon campaign?

Edit - here's the teams in each division; are they skipping over Div 4?

Also, should the league now be the 5NCL, or are we assuming a United Ireland in the wake of Brexit?

To answer your questions in reverse order, no, the original concept of Four Nations Chess League presumed Ireland (undivided) was the fourth.

There is a Division 4 South but not a Division 4 North so Enniscorthy and Gonzaga are not skipping a division.

I am advised that the Enniscorthy 4NCL team is likely to include some Blanchardstown players also. I wonder will John Delaney play? They could probably do with his experience on top board.

The matches are played over a few weekends; I think four weekends with two games and the final three over the May bank holiday. These will be divided between Bolton and Wakefield; the other divisions play elsewhere.

I enquired some time ago on the English Chess Forum about what strength teams would be required to compete in Division 3 North. The most comprehensive answer I got went like this. (I am told you can convert, approximately, the ECF gradings mentioned by the formula ECF x 7.5 + 700).

Martin Carpenter wrote:

Mostly very flat teams in Div3N at least. Also very solid ones. Obviously Div3 has Div4 to collect its properly weak teams, but even Div3N only has one or two truly weak teams in it nowadays.

Typical team ~190,180,180,170,160,150.

If thinking of entering a squad, the big thing would I think be trying to get the bottom boards up to strength. I'd worry more about a ~130 grade on boards 5/6 than a 175 on board 1. Bradford DCA B and Manchester 2 both finished halfway up fielding no one above ~180 all season, but also no one below 150/160.

The only teams with multiple 2200+ players in 3N have been those very clearly getting themselves promoted - Spirit of Atticus, Alba and North East. They've tended to drop to ~190 on the bottom boards, as you'd expect of people building squads to cope as 8 players in Div1/2.

Bradford DCA A got themselves promoted this season with a lot of players +-2100, 2000 at the weakest.

cdeb

How can there be a Div 4 South but no Div 4 North? I don't get that! Surely a Div 3 national, and then Div 4 N/S makes more sense?

For the record, that "typical team" you note equates to a range from 2125 to 1825 FIDE. So probably similar enough to the Armstrong really.

Tim Harding

cdeb wrote: »

How can there be a Div 4 South but no Div 4 North? I don't get that! Surely a Div 3 national, and then Div 4 N/S makes more sense?

For the record, that "typical team" you note equates to a range from 2125 to 1825 FIDE. So probably similar enough to the Armstrong really.

You can look at previous years at
http://www.4ncl.co.uk/index.htm

There were only divisions 1-2-3 until Season 2013-14 when Division 3 was split into North and South. (Midlands teams could choose which they preferred.)

Last season was the first to have a Division 4 (south), presumably because they are getting more entries from London and the South.

For more details you would have to ask the organisers or someone who has been involved in 4NCL in the past; I have never played in it.

Teams are only 6 boards below Division 2 so not the same as the Armstrong in that respect.

Rathminor

Tim,
I believe the Enniscorthy squad will be supplemented with a couple of players from this summers Glorney squads. There will be a panel of 12, with 6 boards in every round.
The standard should be very high with most teams having a circa 2300 on board 1 and boards 2 and 3 also over 2000 based on recent years.
Do you know if many Irish teams have taken part in the 4NCL in recent years?
It will be very interesting to see how well the Gonzaga squad get on, given their recent domination of the Armstrong.
It looks like a very good idea for both squads, so please keep us updated on their progress

Tim Harding

I believe there may only have been one or two Irish expat teams in the past in 4NCL.

Somebody else will have to report on progress; I am not in either squad and expect to be away playing the World Seniors the first weekend of Division 3 North.

Tim Harding

NCL Division 3 North had its second weekend in Bolton 14-15 January.

After their good start the Irish teams crashed yesterday with an under-strength Gonzaga (Henry Li top board, Stephen Moran board 2) narrowly losing to a very powerful Manx team which had a GM and three IMs.
As they will still have to meet the Manchester Manticores 1, Gonzaga will need to field at least some of their titled players in future if they are to win promotion.

Enniscorthy also got hammered in round 3; I am not sure why three of their players met one team and the other three a different club. It may have something to do with one team having withdrawn after round 2.4

Today's Round 4 results are coming through now. Enniscorthy drew 3-3 with Jorvik which is a fairly good result on rating.
Gonzaga won against the weakest Manchester team (Manticores 4) by 4.5-0.5 with Stephen Moran's game on board 2 maybe still going on.

LATER: Stephen won. Gonzaga are currently fourth in the division but will play two of the teams above them later. February 11-12 is the next weekend. Pairings will probably be published in a few days.
Manticores 1 are the only team with a 100% record; the Manx team drew one of their matches the first weekend when their team was less strong. Maybe this led Gonzaga to underestimate them when deciding who would play this weekend?
http://www.4ncl.co.uk/1617_pairings_div3n.htm#

checknraise

Not the worst result to run a team so close fielding a 1 GM and 3 IM's over 6 boards.

Our problem was the fixtures were released relatively late and were not expecting to meet a strong team so soon. Manx do not seem to be the most consistent team and it remains to be seen if they can field that sort of team for the rest of the season.

Based on the teams that have played so far there are 3 teams playing for 2 promotion spots. All still to play for.

Tim Harding

checknraise wrote: »

Not the worst result to run a team so close fielding a 1 GM and 3 IM's over 6 boards.

Our problem was the fixtures were released relatively late and were not expecting to meet a strong team so soon. Manx do not seem to be the most consistent team and it remains to be seen if they can field that sort of team for the rest of the season.

Based on the teams that have played so far there are 3 teams playing for 2 promotion spots. All still to play for.

I see that team pairings for Round 5 (11 Feb) are now posted and the top four teams meet:
Manchester Manticores 1 (8 match points) v Manx Liberty (7)
Cheddleton II (7) v Gonzaga (6)
Also:
Hounds and Bears (5) v Enniscorthy (5)

The round 6 draw will be done after round 5, but Gonzaga must assume they are likely to get the Manchester team on the Sunday (unless they lose to Cheddleton in which case their promotion prospects are seriously damaged).

On the bright side, it could mean that if Gonzaga can field their top six for the whole weekend, they might be in pole position after these two matches and not need to call on GM Maze and Stephen Jessel again?

It will also be interesting to see if the Manx team get all their titled players out again.

Tim Harding

Gonzaga and Enniscorthy will be in 4NCL action again the weekend after next (11-12 Feb).

Some interesting postings about their division (3 North) just appeared on the English Chess Forum.

http://www.ecforum.org.uk/viewtopic.php?f=13&t=8448&start=180

It appears the Manx team (who beat Gonzaga last time out) are really going seriously for promotion.

Neil Graham wrote:

Essentially Manx Liberty are an imported team from the Chess Bundesliga (German Chess League).

Of the players from abroad GM Parlingras, GM Cyborowski, GM Bobras, IM Galyas, IM Segas and IM Kolbus all play for SG Trier. Bad news is that IM Kolbus has plenty more grandmasters/international masters he can bring in from his German squad (including Ivanchuk ) - Good news is that the next round of the Bundesliga clashes with Div 3 North so he might have to leave his players in Germany!

checknraise

They are a serious team alright. Be interesting to see what team shows up.
If Gonzaga win on Saturday it is likely to come to our match versus Manchester on the Sunday for the 2nd promotion spot.

Tim Harding

checknraise wrote: »

They are a serious team alright. Be interesting to see what team shows up.
If Gonzaga win on Saturday it is likely to come to our match versus Manchester on the Sunday for the 2nd promotion spot.

It would be better for you if a strong Manx team shows up and beats Manchester. Then if you also beat Cheddleton and Manchester it may become a two-horse race for the two promotion spots.

But if Manchester beat Manx and lose to you then it will become a three (or maybe four, depending on Cheddleton 2) horse race all the way to the finishing line in May.

Tim Harding

Gonzaga have won their 4 NCL match this afternoon, against Cheddleton 2, 4-1 with Stephen Moran still playing at 5.30pm.
Wins for Jessel, Li, Murray and Freeman but Killian Delaney lost on board 2.

http://www.4nclresults.co.uk/2016-17/4ncl/5/3n/export/

LATER: Stephen drew his game. Enniscorthy only brought three players (who all lost) so they scored Minus 1.5 for the round. Why did they not recruit and register some more players?

Manchester Manticores beat the Manx team who (as predicted) were much weaker this time because of the Bundesliga clash.

So Gonzaga are now second in the group with 8MP behind Manchester and can go top tomorrow if they win 4-2 or better.
Tomorrow's match could effectively decide the division, but will the two teams be the same as today or are reinforcements on the way?

Tim Harding

Gonzaga lost 2.5-3.5. Stephen Jessel drew with IM Polaczek, Henry Li lost to a 2372 player and Killian won on board 3. But both Gordon and Stephen lost.
On the top three boards where they were outrated they scored 50 per cent but only 1/3 on the lower boards where they had the higher ratings (but two Blacks). Mind you the win was David Murray with Black on 6.
If Gonzaga had brought their stars for this crucial weekend, or even Conor O'Donnell (if Maze was unavailable) they would probably have won.

Now (although there are five rounds still to go) Manchester Manticores are pretty much certain of the division title and promotion since all their remaining opponents are much weaker.
Gonzaga on the other hand must win all their remaining matches and hope Manx slip up somewhere.

Enniscorthy scored 1.5 from the three boards they played (win for Alice, draw for Agustin Plaza Reino, loss for Tom O'Gorman) but they drop 1.5 for each board they defaulted so their net result for the weekend is -1.5 game points.

Can somebody explain why Enniscorthy only brought three players? Were there not adults accompanying them who could have played with an emergency registration?

checknraise

Very disappointing result. Gonzaga have lost both of their close matches.
Does seem ridiculous to me that a team can be declared the day before, one player doesn't show up and he can be replaced on the morning. I would have thought that could lead to all sorts of nonsence.
Enniscorthy's match clashed with exams for many of the team.

Tim Harding

checknraise wrote: »

Enniscorthy's match clashed with exams for many of the team.

That's not much of an excuse for the trouble and waste of time/expense they caused their opponents. (See the English Chess Forum for a complaint about this for the team they were paired with on Sunday.)

Presumably the dates of exams were known long in advance and the 4NCL dates were known since about September. That was plenty of time for other arrangements to be made and other players recruited for the team.

And were there not accompanying adults who play chess and could have played on some of the lower boards?

Tim Harding

Gonzaga and Enniscorthy teams are in action this weekend (Sat & Sun).

Gonzaga badly need to win both matches to keep promotion hopes alive.

It would of course help if rivals falter.

Tim Harding

The Gonzaga team (half composed of Trinity players today) won their match to retain third place but it's hard to see how they can win promotion as it's only possible if one of the teams above them fail in a match.

Top round 8 pairings with the match point situation have just been posted:
Manchester Manticores 1 [14] v 3Cs 2 (the first team of 3Cs is in a higher division) who have 8 match points.
Manx Liberty [11] v Hounds and Bears [9].
Gonzaga [10] v Jorvik [9]
Manchester Manticores 2 [8] v Spirit of Atticus B [7].

Enniscorthy, who narrowly lost today, will play the bottom teams 3Cs 3 (who have only two MP) so have a good chance of increasing their tally.

The best chance in the promotion race (two qualify) is that Manx Liberty may falter; they have already dropped one MP and are well behind Gonzaga on game points. But this weekend they have two GMs, an IM and a WGM. Gonzaga's own match tomorrow against the team from York is not a foregone conclusion.

Manchester Manticores 1 (despite fielding just one IM) are a shoo-in for promotion. They have now played and beaten the four teams nearest to them in the table. In the remaining four rounds (one tomorrow and three on the final weekend) they will certainly out-rate the opposition and one of those they meet will be almost certainly their second team unless there is a rule to prevent that.

Manx Liberty face a slightly harder run-in. Tomorrow's round is perhaps Gonzaga's best hope as we know the Manx can bring even more big guns to the final weekend. Gonzaga could do so also, but there wouldn't be much point as the team they have today (or a similar one including David Murray) can probably see off all the lower teams.

The hard lesson from all this, if an Irish team has to try again next season to win promotion from Division 3 North, is that the second weekend can be crucial as the decisive matches can come earlier than in an individual Swiss. The widely divergent strengths of teams in the division means that promotion can be virtually decided with four or five rounds to go, so saving your big guns for the final weekend is the wrong strategy.
Gonzaga registered Maze, Jessel and O'Donnell. Conor played only the first weekend, when he wasn't really needed. Maze and Jessel have not appeared. This weekend's team is: Delaney, Li, Gelip, Moran, Freeman and Miller.

Tim Harding

Correction to one thing I wrote yesterday: Stephen Jessel did play for Gonzaga on the third weekend and scored 1.5/2 but they lost to Manchester Manticores, the team now nearly certain to win the division with a 100% record. Having lost to the Manx team on the second weekend (who had unexpectedly brought a much more powerful team than the first time) Gonzaga could not have afforded any more dropped points. SO it was the third weekend they really needed to bring Conor O'Donnell as well if not Sebastien Maze.

This weekend Gonzaga/TCD have won both their matches comfortably but so did the teams above them and it's not likely they can be promoted now.
Enniscorthy's opponents today defaulted the bottom two boards which was very inconsiderate seeing that the young Irish players had come so far to play. (Luke Scott lost and the other three won.) But they can hardly complain as they defaulted boards themselves the previous weekend.

Tim Harding

People are saying on the English Chess Forum that there is a clash of dates between the German chess Bundesliga and the 4NCL final weekend, so there is a chance Manx Liberty will not be at full strength in the last three rounds.

This means there is still hope but Gonzaga ought to reinforce with Maze or Jessel if they can?

Tim Harding

Gonzaga and Enniscorthy are playing this weekend in Wakefield, Yorkshire, in the final weekend of the 4NCL Division Three North: one game each day, Saturday to Monday.

I'm not sure who's playing apart from Stephen Moran for Gonzaga.

One team has withdrawn so there is a revised draw, with a "triangular match". I'm not sure exactly how that works but it seems that for round 9 the two Irish teams meet on three of the boards and the other three boards of each play against a team called Three C's 2. Winning each three-board match is worth one match point.

Gonzaga will only get promoted if they can win all their matches and one of the teams ahead of them slips up.

Tim Harding

Final weekend under way: the ICU website reports that David Fitzsimons has earned his second IM norm in the 4NCL. As his game against David Howell is not long under way, this must just be because Howell's high rating (2684) raises the average of his opponents and means that David can even afford to lose the game. Of course he will hope to do better and maybe even end the weekend with a 10-game or 11-game norm.

Here is the link to that game:
https://chess24.com/en/watch/live-tournaments/4ncl-division-1-finals-2016-2017/5/1/1

Meanwhile in Division Three North, Gonzaga have Stephen Jessel on top board but somebody, I'm not sure who, could not travel and David Murray put out an emergency call for a wild card replacement on the English Chess Forum at 0530.
So they have an unrated player (Henry Li's father I think) on bottom board v Robbie Kildea of Enniscorthy in round 9, currently in progress.

Hopefully they can line up one of their 2000+ regulars or a stronger wild-card for the last two rounds.

Tim Harding

The teams ahead of Gonzaga in the promotion battle have both won their round 9 matches.

Gonzaga need to win both their 3-game mini-matches to avoid slipping further back.
Having lost bottom board against Enniscorthy, they require Killian Delaney to beat Tom O'Gorman with Black, and David Murray to beat Mercedes Plaza Reino.
The other 3-game match is not a pushover either.
The games are not online so we just have to wait.

The Fitzsimons-Howell game is roughly level after 19 moves and could be worth watching but David Howell is not in time trouble yet.

Tim Harding

Correction to my last: the rival teams have not won their matches yet but lead 2.5-0.5 in both, which is ominous -
especially combined with higher ratings in the case of Manchester Manticores 1 (who are playing against their second team) and big rating advantage for Manx with White on board 3.

However it's true that the Manx (Germans really) only brought one GM this weekend and they could be vulnerable on boards 5 and 6.

Tim Harding

As it turned out, Gonzaga did drop a match point today but it wasn't in the lower board contest against Enniscorthy which they won 2-1.
Instead their top three boards were surprisingly beaten by "3Cs2" who, despite being outranked on each board by 100+ average, drew the top two boards against Stephen Jessel and Henry Li while Stephen Moran lost to veteran Graham Burton whom I played back in 1971 when I lived in England.

While Gonzaga are still third in the table, they have fallen further behind. The match points (most important) and game points of the leading teams are now as follows:
Manchester Manticores I 18 (40)
Manx Liberty 15 (35.5)
Gonzaga 12 (35)
Cheddleton-2 11 (28)
Jorvik 11 (27.5)
..
Enniscorthy 7 (18)

With two rounds to go, the Manticores are assured of promotion while the Manx team need only two match points from a possible four to avoid being tied and even one MP with a better GP score might be enough. Cheddleton and Jorvik can only finish second if Manx lose both their matches and Gonzaga also fail.

Because the triangular match necessitated by the withdrawal of one team must be completed in round 10,
Gonzaga will next play Enniscorthy and "3Cs2"on three more boards, and presumably each team must be opposite to today's line-up, though maybe Gonzaga can bring a new replacement if they have found one.

Board pairings are not up yet but it will presumable be Alice O'Gorman v Stephen Jessel (good experience for Alice!);
Dovydas Pocevicius v Henri Li and Dean Copeland v Stephen Moran. Colours may be the other way round but clearly Gonzaga should get a match point there.

Killian Delaney, David Murray and another will play the lower board of the English team.

The rest of the round 10 line-up tomorrow looks like this:
Cheddleton 2 v Manticores 1
Manticores 2 v Manx
Jorvik v Manticores 3

Tim Harding

Alex McFarlane, on the English Chess Forum, has explained that I misunderstood the rule on triangular matches.

Alex McFarlane wrote:

Gonzaga can go to 18. They can get 4 points tomorrow if they score sufficient points in the second half of their two triangular matches. That would take them to 16 with potentially another 2 points on Monday.

The normal triangular matches aggregate the match score over 2 days. The exception will be the Monday triangular which will be 1 point for a win and 0.5 for a drawn half match.

So the true situation is that Gonzaga need to score 1.5/3 against Enniscorthy tomorrow and 2.5/3 against 3Cs2. Realistically this will only be possible if they have a stronger substitute available and are allowed to bring him/her in.
I am going to ask on the ECF about that.

Tim Harding

Gonzaga have Gordon Freeman today so it's game on; they have a chance of getting the result they require against 3Cs2.

Manchester should confirm their promotion in today's round, while we need their second team to take something off Manx.

Tim Harding

Gonzaga won their match with Enniscorthy but lost heavily to 3Cs2 without winning a game.
So today's last round (which they should win) has become irrelevant.
They will have to decide whether they try again next season. No doubt some lessons have been learned.

Tim Harding

Gonzaga are now confirmed third in 4NCL Division Three North with the Enniscorthy juniors taking a respectable three draws off the division winners today. Tom O'Gorman drew with Black against IM Richard Polaczek, with Mercedes Plaza Reino and Dean Copeland also getting results. Dean scored 50 per cent this weekend (as did Tom), with a win against a much higher rated player on Saturday.

http://www.4nclresults.co.uk/2016-17/media/4ncl/table-div3n.html

Tim Harding

The background to the super-strong German "Manx" team that blocked Gonzaga's prospects of qualification to Division 2 of the 4NCL is now becoming clearer in a discussion on the English Chess Forum. It seems a kind of "reverse Brexit" is operating.

http://www.ecforum.org.uk/viewtopic.php?f=13&t=8795&start=75

The chess club of Trier (which finished 8th this year, i.e. mid-table, in the 2016/17 SchachBundesliga) has announced its withdrawal from the German league and that in future they will play only in the 4NCL. So they will be pretty much dead certs to win qualification for the top 4NCL Division in 2018/19 where they would be contenders if they can get out their full team (headed by GM Naiditsch etc).

It seems that Trier were having some disagreements with the Bundesliga management whose rules would not allow them to transfer the team to another city. They were having difficulties hosting their home matches so the 4NCL, where all matches are played in central venues, should suit them better.

Gonzaga were unlucky to make their 4NCL debut in the same season that all this was going on. Nevertheless they must now be forearmed that the same thing could happen again and that (since 4NCL player registration rules are very flexible) they need to bring at least one 2300+ player and two/three more 2200+ players each weekend to insure them against the accidents that derailed their last campaign. Especially as they can expect rivals might have lined up some wild card players when they know in advance they have to play Gonzaga. Also they now know that many northern English players seem to play better than their FIDE ratings in the 4NCL: after all Gonzaga lost two other matches in addition to the one against "Manx".

Also in the light of what happened last weekend, they should consider lining up a northern-English-based reserve who can step in at short notice in case of emergencies. (I have somebody in mind and will contact the team privately on that.)

Enniscorthy didn't do badly for their first outing (especially considering they were an all-junior team) and I gather from the English Forum that they may enter again, but they should include a couple more strong juniors in their squad. In particular they need to plan much better in advance for any weekends that clash with school/state exams so that they don't default games again or come with a badly weakened squad for any rounds.
All the 4NCL dates are known months in advance, so whoever is managing the team should be checking out with the players by September which weekends could be problematic, and lining up if necessary transition year students to fill gaps.

brilliantboy

Tim Harding wrote: »

The background to the super-strong German "Manx" team that blocked Gonzaga's prospects of qualification to Division 2 of the 4NCL is now becoming clearer in a discussion on the English Chess Forum. It seems a kind of "reverse Brexit" is operating.

http://www.ecforum.org.uk/viewtopic.php?f=13&t=8795&start=75

The chess club of Trier (which finished 8th this year, i.e. mid-table, in the 2016/17 SchachBundesliga) has announced its withdrawal from the German league and that in future they will play only in the 4NCL. So they will be pretty much dead certs to win qualification for the top 4NCL Division in 2018/19 where they would be contenders if they can get out their full team (headed by GM Naiditsch etc).

It seems that Trier were having some disagreements with the Bundesliga management whose rules would not allow them to transfer the team to another city. They were having difficulties hosting their home matches so the 4NCL, where all matches are played in central venues, should suit them better.

Having trouble hosting their home matches so they decide to compete in a different country entirely? Seems a strange solution.

Maybe they were just tired of banging their head against the brick walls of Baden Baden (with Anand on board 4), Solingen (Giri, Harikrishna, Rapport etc.) and others, and would prefer to be a slightly bigger fish in a smaller pond?

Tim Harding

brilliantboy wrote: »

Having trouble hosting their home matches so they decide to compete in a different country entirely? Seems a strange solution.

Maybe they were just tired of banging their head against the brick walls of Baden Baden (with Anand on board 4), Solingen (Giri, Harikrishna, Rapport etc.) and others, and would prefer to be a slightly bigger fish in a smaller pond?

Well, they will have to play out of the top division(s) for one season so they must think the change is worth it.
Read the German report for yourself:

http://schachbundesliga.de/bundesliga/trierer-bundesligateam-zieht-um-nach-grossbritannien