Season 6 Episode 3 "Oathbreaker" - Speculation thread

Nody

See topic; please spoiler anything from interviews, books etc.

Thread will be unlocked on Sunday evening.

Niska

Preview (obviously potential spoilers...)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8wS1JfmKZzQ

Looks like we have tower of joy this episode.
And the "present for you".. the sigil on the banners just prior to that are the same as Last Hearth (Umbers - a chain http://gameofthrones.wikia.com/wiki/Last_Hearth )
Last we heard about them was 3.9 - Osha was taking Rickon there. Guess Umber are not loyal Stark banner men after all...

lbj666

Niska wrote: »

Preview (obviously potential spoilers...)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8wS1JfmKZzQ

Looks like we have tower of joy this episode.
And the "present for you".. the sigil on the banners just prior to that are the same as Last Hearth (Umbers - a chain http://gameofthrones.wikia.com/wiki/Last_Hearth )
Last we heard about them was 3.9 - Osha was taking Rickon there. Guess Umber are not loyal Stark banner men after all...

I thought this was blind devotion when I saw it again recently but now i aint sure.

DaveSuarez

And now it begins...

Lemlin

Who are those characters fighting at the end?

karma_

Lemlin wrote: »

Who are those characters fighting at the end?

Looks like the fight at the tower of Joy. A young Ned saying 'Now it begins.'

Lemlin

karma_ wrote: »

Looks like the fight at the tower of Joy. A young Ned saying 'Now it begins.'

Would he not be the one saying "now it ends"?

bnt

What could Ramsay's gift be? Well, it's being delivered by Smalljon Umber. You may recall that his father Greatjon Umber swore fealty to Robb Stark after Grey Wind bit off a couple of his fingers. Greatjon went on to capture Jaime Lannister.

In the book, Smalljon was killed at the Red Wedding while Greatjon was captured and held at The Twins.

So the open question is: after all that has happened, are the Umbers still loyal to the Starks? I think that will determine the nature of the gift that Smalljon brings: if they aren't, the gift could be Rickon Stark, who was taken to Greatjon Umber at Last Hearth by Osha.

Is Greatjon still a hostage, and so could this be a trade: Rickon for Greatjon? How will the murder of Walda Frey affect that?

wp_rathead

Going by that promo I reckon the gift is

a new Reek for Ramsey, Rickon Stark

amos13

My tuppence: oathbreaker refers to Briennes oath to Renly, that she would avenge him by killing Stannis, she didn't, she sent him to the wall, he turns up all honourably, becomes the 1,000th LCotNW. Jon dispatches with Alliser Throne revealing his new, more ruthless side. Leaves castle black with the wildlings to take back winterfell and save sansa just as she arrives. Umbers pretend to align with the Bolton's by giving Ramsay Rickon, Ramsay tells them his plans to storm castle black and they send a raven/ men to warn them. Stannis leads the nights watch to a great victory against the Bolton army, wiping out the Bolton house and wreaking his own revenge in the process. The great northern conspiracy will be whittled down to a single episode, maybe two. Brienne sees a white walker for the first time and slays him.

RobbingBandit

Guess they're going with Small John rather than his uncle Whoresbane. Would be quite the mouthful anytime he was on screen or referred to.

Hoping the Oathkeeper reference is to Lady Stoneheart myself.

Somehow I think Littlefinger will pop in to steal Sansa out from under Brienne as she is too valuable a piece to remove so easily.

conorhal

amos13 wrote: »

My tuppence: oathbreaker refers to Briennes oath to Renly, that she would avenge him by killing Stannis, she didn't, she sent him to the wall, he turns up all honourably, becomes the 1,000th LCotNW. Jon dispatches with Alliser Throne revealing his new, more ruthless side. Leaves castle black with the wildlings to take back winterfell and save sansa just as she arrives. Umbers pretend to align with the Bolton's by giving Ramsay Rickon, Ramsay tells them his plans to storm castle black and they send a raven/ men to warn them. Stannis leads the nights watch to a great victory against the Bolton army, wiping out the Bolton house and wreaking his own revenge in the process. The great northern conspiracy will be whittled down to a single episode, maybe two. Brienne sees a white walker for the first time and slays him.

I thought it was confirmed by the show runners that Stannis is dead-dead?

I presume the title refers to Jon, who probably considers his oath to serve the watch for life as being more then fulfulled and no longer binding, leaving him free to march off with the Wildlings to re-take Winterfell.

duploelabs

I think one ressurection per season will be enough, although given Ian McShane's comments about bringing back a character, LS could be on the cards. If they're to bring back Stannis too, it'd be taking the mick

pinkypinky

It's more likely to be Stannis that Lady Stoneheart. I don't know why everyone is so obsessed with her return: she doesn't bring much to the plot. But any second resurrection is a bit of a cop-out.

blackwhite

amos13 wrote: »

My tuppence: oathbreaker refers to Briennes oath to Renly, that she would avenge him by killing Stannis, she didn't, she sent him to the wall, he turns up all honourably, becomes the 1,000th LCotNW. Jon dispatches with Alliser Throne revealing his new, more ruthless side. Leaves castle black with the wildlings to take back winterfell and save sansa just as she arrives. Umbers pretend to align with the Bolton's by giving Ramsay Rickon, Ramsay tells them his plans to storm castle black and they send a raven/ men to warn them. Stannis leads the nights watch to a great victory against the Bolton army, wiping out the Bolton house and wreaking his own revenge in the process. The great northern conspiracy will be whittled down to a single episode, maybe two. Brienne sees a white walker for the first time and slays him.

Last line reminded me of something - are Brienne and Jon the only people in the North known to have Valaryian swords?

white apples

Where have the Tyrell's disappeared to? Is Highgarden not one of the most powerful armies? Two of their finest have been thrown into cells and there's not a peep out of them, where's grandma?

Could Stannis be the gift, or his body?
I really hope it's not Rickon.

amos13

No idea, hadn't heard that. But its not like they dont have form. The hound is allegedly dead too, but we didn't see him die either, and i believe he'll be back this season too.

As for lady stone heart, I've long given up on that.

Jaden

wp_rathead wrote: »

Going by that promo I reckon the gift is

a new Reek for Ramsey, Rickon Stark

Has anyone considered that:

It's Theon been recaptured?

JustShon

amos13 wrote: »

Who has Robb's will declaring Jon his heir from season 3? Is it the umbers? Jon doesn't know his parentage yet, so at this point he may march on winterfell as true heir if the will turns up next episode.

What will? Is that book stuff or did I miss something?

podgemonster

JustShon wrote: »

What will? Is that book stuff or did I miss something?

That is book stuff.

Conall Cernach

blackwhite wrote: »

Last line reminded me of something - are Brienne and Jon the only people in the North known to have Valaryian swords?

Sam's father has one too, though I don't remember if that has been mentioned in the show.

JustShon

podgemonster wrote: »

That is book stuff.

That possibility makes me more likely to believe that Stannis is dead.

See how I figured it would play out is: Jon dies, Jon gets ressurected. Since he has served in the Night's Watch until his death, he 's now free of his oath. Now he can take up Stannis's offer of making him Jon Stark and thus he can retake Winterfell as the eldest living Stark male and rightful heir.

But if they bring a will from Rob into play then it makes Stannis unnecessary.

Tigger

duploelabs wrote: »

I think one ressurection per season will be enough, although given Ian McShane's comments about bringing back a character, LS could be on the cards. If they're to bring back Stannis too, it'd be taking the mick

if anyone is coming back its the

gravedigger

Tigger

oathkeeper is the name of Brienne's sword, she kept her oath to find Sansa

n the chambers of the Kingsguard, Jaime tasks Brienne with finding Sansa. He urges her to find and keep the girl safe from those who would hand her over to Cersei and provides her with a horse, supplies, and a freshly forged suit of armor. Jaime then gifts her with the sword his father gave him, saying that the Valarian steel is forged from Ned Stark's sword and that the steel from Ned Stark's sword should be used to defend Ned Stark's daughters. He also insists she take Podrick Payne with her as a squire, both as a reward for the boy's service to Tyrion and to keep him safe from those who would seek to use him against his former master. Before departing, Brienne names the sword "Oathkeeper" and vows to find Sansa, for the sake of Jaime and Lady Catelyn.

amos13

I've edited this response. Not sure it is in the show now.

amos13

blackwhite wrote:

Last line reminded me of something - are Brienne and Jon the only people in the North known to have Valaryian swords?

I think so, only other person having a sword that I can remember was Joffrey. Which I assume is now Tommens. Not much good in kingslanding.

intheclouds

Oathbreaker?

It's Ned Stark.

"Promise me Ned". But what did he promise? To reveal to Jon Snow who his father was?

amos13

JustShon wrote:

What will? Is that book stuff or did I miss something?

Having tried unsuccessfully to source that from the shows, I can't, and may have a false memory on that, so have deleted just in case. Apologies. Genuinely thought it was in season 3.

Fromvert

Oathbreaker potentials?

Brienne - Her sword is oathkeeper, did she break her oath to kill Stannis?
Jon - No longer being part of the Nights Watch, he did die so that probably gets him out of it.
Umbers - Not staying loyal to the Starks and handing over Rickon to Ramsey.
Jaime - The original oathbreaker in the show goes after the sparrow.
Something in the Tower of Joy scene.

amos13

Fromvert wrote:

Brienne - Her sword is oathkeeper, did she break her oath to kill Stannis? Jon - No longer being part of the Nights Watch, he did die so that probably gets him out of it. Umbers - Not staying loyal to the Starks and handing over Rickon to Ramsey. Jaime - The original oathbreaker in the show goes after the sparrow. Something in the Tower of Joy scene.

I doubt the umbers will betray the starks. They may pretend to, to "get in" with Ramsay and learn of/disrupt his plans, but I think ultimately, the north remembers.

flazio

I reckon Jamie Lannister is the most likely subject of the title. Especially after his conversation with The High Sparrow.

aligator_am

amos13 wrote: »

I doubt the umbers will betray the starks. They may pretend to, to "get in" with Ramsay and learn of/disrupt his plans, but I think ultimately, the north remembers.

Yeah, I'm thinking that they'll

have the Umbers play out a version of the Manderleys storyline from the books to some degree

.

Could understand the Karstarks being pissed off though, so not really sure what will happen with them.

aligator_am

flazio wrote: »

I reckon Jamie Lannister is the most likely subject of the title. Especially after his conversation with The High Sparrow.

Yeah, there's a scene in one of the season 6 trailers that looked a LOT like how the kingslayer got his name, or I thought so at least.

laugh

Perhaps it's John's mother fecking off on Robert?

intheclouds

aligator_am wrote: »

Yeah, there's a scene in one of the season 6 trailers that looked a LOT like how the kingslayer got his name, or I thought so at least.

So did I but then someone pointed out the size of the first shadow and then I thought it was actually Robert Strong.

Duckworth_Luas

The gift for Ramsay could be either

Stannis - impossible as he's 100% dead
Rickon - possible but I doubt it
Theon - most probable, especially given Ramsay's reaction in the trailer

Book speculation

This would also mean that the Umbers are not "oathbreakers" by handing over Rickon and may instead be part of a wider northern conspiracy against the Boltons and allies.

It would also place Theon back at Winterfell where he may indeed turn out to be that mysterious figure who murders all those other characters.

sparkthatbled

Gift theory: Theon rode to the Umbers(probably the closest house he knew were 100% Stark loyalists) and presented a plan. They "return" him to Ramsay and tell him Sansa is dead, Theon resumes his role as Reek, pretends to be as broken as before, maybe suffers some horrible punishment, then finds an opportunity to kill Ramsay. Then the Umber soldiers retake Winterfell along with other loyal banners.

I think it's likely because it's a good, but predictable, storyline, which I think will sadly become the norm for GoT now that it doesn't really have GRRM's machiavellian storytelling to base things on.

intheclouds

I think the gift has to be Rickon.

Although I like the idea of Theon secretly killing members of Boltons household.

JustShon

If we do, at some point, wind up with Jon Snow leading a force to retake Winterfell from Ramsey, can we please please please refer to it as "The Battle of The Bastards" ?

Tom.D.BJJ

duploelabs wrote: »

I think one ressurection per season will be enough, although given Ian McShane's comments about bringing back a character, LS could be on the cards. If they're to bring back Stannis too, it'd be taking the mick

Its

the Hound

ffs. Why anyone thinks it could be anyone else is beyond me.

JustShon

Tom.D.BJJ wrote: »

Its the Hound ffs. Why anyone thinks it could be anyone else is beyond me.

Plus that's not exactly a resurrection. We never saw him actually die. I know he was very badly hurt, and definitely dying but in Game of Thrones anything is possible. His brother got brought back by some kind of mix of magic and science after all.

duploelabs

Tom.D.BJJ wrote: »

Its

the Hound

ffs. Why anyone thinks it could be anyone else is beyond me.

Because the hound has never been mentioned as being back alive (or dead for that matter) in the books. It's only hinted at as the gravedigger being him, never confirmed. Whereas LS is an actual character, brought back and allies herself with the brotherhood without banners, Ian McShane has said in an interview that his character is going to be part of them and he said in the same interview that he'll be bringing back a much-loved character

intheclouds

duploelabs wrote: »

Because.....

This is what McShane said:

My character is an ex-warrior who’s become a peacenik. So I have this group of peaceful…it’s like a cult, peaceful tribe… who have brought back…I bring back this beloved character that everyone thinks is dead. So, I’ll leave it at that.

This is quite obviously

the Elder Brother from the Quiet Isle.

Furthermore, when then asked in a subsequent interview

if he was bringing back the Hound or Jon Snow, McShane replied "It’s not the latter. It might be the former.”

.

So Id say you can take off the tin foil hat regarding LS from those interviews.

Btw - shouldnt you be spoilering book stuff?

karma_

duploelabs wrote: »

Because the hound has never been mentioned as being back alive (or dead for that matter) in the books. It's only hinted at as the gravedigger being him, never confirmed. Whereas LS is an actual character, brought back and allies herself with the brotherhood without banners, Ian McShane has said in an interview that his character is going to be part of them and he said in the same interview that he'll be bringing back a much-loved character

He confirmed which character was coming back in a radio interview. It's

The Hound

.

Amore

karma_ wrote: »

He confirmed which character was coming back in a radio interview. It's

The Hound

.

Yes, you're right

J. Marston

There's a line from Ramsey in one of the trailers for season 6 that makes me think the gift is

Rickon

. He says

"Do you like games, little man?"

duploelabs

This will hopefully shed some light
http://imgur.com/a/NRZ6z

RobbingBandit

The gift could be the land gifted to the nights watch where all the wildlings let through by Jon are now and Ramsey is planning on attacking them but they will attack him led by Jon at Wintetfell as seen in Milesandres visions.

Which might mean the reincarnated Jon is the oathbreaker.

amos13

duploelabs wrote:

This will hopefully shed some light

RobbingBandit wrote:

The gift could be the land gifted to the nights watch where all the wildlings let through by Jon are now and Ramsey is planning on attacking them but they will attack him led by Jon at Wintetfell as seen in Milesandres visions.

How would he fit that in the winterfell reception hall?

aunt aggie

J. Marston wrote: »

There's a line from Ramsey in one of the trailers for season 6 that makes me think the gift is

Rickon

. He says

"Do you like games, little man?"

I thought that was someone in Merreen speaking to Tyrion. Could be completely wrong though.

I really hope Theon isn't the gift. I'd like to see him get home in time for the Kingsmoot, but it's very unlikely things will start going right for him now.

RobbingBandit

He wouldn't would he(I take it this is Jon Snow we are talking about) Ramsey could be talking about anything maybe even the attack plans being put in place.

The gift in the books is the land Queen Alysanne gifted to the Nights Watch so I think that is why its mentioned but seeing as the show doesn't pay homage to the books the gift could more likely be a person.

amos13 wrote: »

How would he fit that in the winterfell reception hall?