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Shane Sutton and British Cycling

  • 27-04-2016 3:29pm
    #1
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 690 ✭✭✭


    so Shane has walked before potentially he can be pushed. don't know much about the man but any interviews I've seen he certainly came across as a fairly gruff type which led me to immediately believe some of the accusations leveled at him


«1

Comments

  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,114 ✭✭✭stecleary


    He's Aussie, Enough said, he didn't meant it, it was all just words


  • Administrators, Social & Fun Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 78,393 Admin ✭✭✭✭✭Beasty


    Don't think the full facts are in the public domain. Was speaking to someone close to BC about this earlier this week and perhaps there is another side to this.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 6,450 ✭✭✭Harrybelafonte


    There's another side to calling the disabled "gimps"? Or to his walking? As for BC themselves, the more voices heard in this, the more will come out re MTB and BMX selections and funding. Sutton resigning won't distract from the atmosphere in BC itself.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 366 ✭✭Derrydingle


    Always two sides to a story but as a outsider it's looks like she didn't make the team cried wolf and now the British team are left in a bit of a mess only months before the big one


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 690 ✭✭✭dragratchet


    crying wolf isnt really the right phrase as what she (varnish) is saying it being substantiated by more and more people as the story breaks. ive known plenty of coaches in my time who've adopted the get results by being an absolute b0llix to everyone and ruling with fear rather than respect. short term strategy at best


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 6,450 ✭✭✭Harrybelafonte


    Always two sides to a story but as a outsider it's looks like she didn't make the team cried wolf and now the British team are left in a bit of a mess only months before the big one

    As an outsider who hasn't read the articles properly maybe.


  • Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 23,243 Mod ✭✭✭✭godtabh


    Always two sides to a story but as a outsider it's looks like she didn't make the team cried wolf and now the British team are left in a bit of a mess only months before the big one

    It appears that after being dropped from the team she had no reason not to say anything.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 859 ✭✭✭StevieGriff


    Yet to see any GB athletes come out in his defense. Doesn't look like many are sad to see him go...especially among the MTB & BMX side.
    384453.jpg


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,318 ✭✭✭✭Raam


    Beasty wrote: »
    Don't think the full facts are in the public domain. Was speaking to someone close to BC about this earlier this week and perhaps there is another side to this.

    What is it?


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,630 ✭✭✭pelevin


    If as part of his job he is paid by the state to work with disabled athletes & genuinely has called them "f....g gimps" - then, as with anyone working with the disabled & caught doing the same, there is imo no way he could remain in the job. I'm not stating it as a given truth that he did use such staggeringly ignorant words, but in such an emotionally charged area I think once Darren Kenny's claims were made it was pretty much game over unless something pretty powerful came out to strongly suggest Kenny was lying.


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,338 ✭✭✭Lusk_Doyle


    Raam wrote: »
    What is it?

    She told him he had a tiny penis.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 366 ✭✭Derrydingle


    funny how varnish never said anything as long as she was in the team but as soon as she was dropped she goes to the press


  • Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 23,243 Mod ✭✭✭✭godtabh


    funny how varnish never said anything as long as she was in the team but as soon as she was dropped she goes to the press

    She said she was worried about speaking out for fear of losing her spot


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,318 ✭✭✭✭Raam


    funny how varnish never said anything as long as she was in the team but as soon as she was dropped she goes to the press

    She explains why...

    http://www.theguardian.com/sport/2016/apr/26/jess-varnish-complaint-british-cycling-shane-sutton
    She also criticised Sutton for talking to the Daily Telegraph before speaking to her. “Shane told everyone that my Rio 2016 dream was over before telling me,” she said. “This is why I decided to speak out, I obviously no longer have anything to lose and can no longer trust Shane or those in charge at British Cycling to be fair.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 724 ✭✭✭JK.BMC


    funny how varnish never said anything as long as she was in the team but as soon as she was dropped she goes to the press

    Her situation isn't and wasn't remotely funny at all.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,338 ✭✭✭Lusk_Doyle


    funny how varnish never said anything as long as she was in the team but as soon as she was dropped she goes to the press

    Didn't Pendelton stay quiet anout what she knew during her tenure and has now come out in support of her former colleague? Can't suggest that it's sour grapes there which lends support to the claims made by Varnish.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,063 ✭✭✭on_the_nickel


    Lusk_Doyle wrote: »
    Didn't Pendelton stay quiet anout what she knew during her tenure and has now come out in support of her former colleague? Can't suggest that it's sour grapes there which lends support to the claims made by Varnish.

    Wasn't there an issue with her dating one of the coaches around the time of the Beijing games and Sutton kicking him out? I seem to remember a documentary where, without being explicit about it, Pendleton seemed to give off really bad vibes about Sutton.

    Nicole Cooke's article
    and the response from BC at the bottom does point to one rule for the men, one for the ladies. And if it is true about Sutton calling the Paralympians the "gimps", then it's apparent Sutton had his pecking order of priorities - making his position as technical director of all elite cycling groups untenable, irrespective of the accusations against him personally.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,256 ✭✭✭MPFGLB


    Lots of athletes including Laura Trott have come out in support of Sutton

    Think we need to be careful not to jump to conclusion until this is investigated

    I do know Sutton is abrasive and very rude....He has said he did not say that to Varnish about having a baby

    In competitive sport there is enormous stress and pressure and no kid gloves and lots of disappointments.

    I do not support discriminatory language against para cyclists but I want to hear the full story before jumping to conclusions


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10 Mario Speedwagon


    stecleary wrote: »
    He's Aussie, Enough said, he didn't meant it, it was all just words

    What's this mean??


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,630 ✭✭✭pelevin


    Article by William Fotheringham who's presumably pretty knowledgeable in the field of British cycling:
    http://www.theguardian.com/sport/2016/apr/27/british-cycling-team-chaos-shane-sutton-rio-olympics-2016

    The tone seems very much that Sutton was incredibly committed - to & beyond the point of unhinged! - but Fotheringham certainly doesn't give off much of a vibe that he feels Sutton was hard done by or didn't reap what his personality sowed.


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,256 ✭✭✭MPFGLB


    What I read from the Guardian article is that Sutton was committed beyond what was prudent and safe, both for himself and others. BC must bear some responsibility for putting him in charge given his over the top behavior

    However one cannot question how devoted he is to the top athletes in the team...Maybe he should have only worked with them. After such intense involvement he is going to find it hard to be on the outside

    Sometimes in the pursuit of goals people lose track of what is real and meaningful

    Guess BC were only interested in the results


  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 6,856 Mod ✭✭✭✭eeeee


    Sexism and discrimination are unacceptable no matter how good you are at your job. A large number of female cyclists in particular have come out against him. It's also sad how rank sexism wasn't enough to boot him out, it also seems to be the tip of the iceberg (para-athlete comments). Someone in his position has to treat all athletes equally, irrespective of gender, discipline and disability.
    Another good perspective:
    http://singletrackworld.com/columns/2016/04/pro-xc-racer-jenny-copnall-speaks-out-at-british-cycling/

    Nicole Cooke's article is very good, as is Pendleton and Varnish's blog post. Makes sense how Armistead is outside BC now... There's an awful lot of smoke...


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,318 ✭✭✭✭Raam


    Seems to me that the athletes are always the ones to get the short end of the stick.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,256 ✭✭✭MPFGLB




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,779 ✭✭✭Carawaystick


    Nicole Cooke makes several claims of sexist behaviour, which would be easy for BC to refute if they were not true

    Rod Ellingoworth said
    the attempt to replicate the win of Tom Simpson in 1965, “the only one won by any British Professional in the road worlds”.
    Apparently three other cyclists won, Beryl Burton, Mandy Jones and Nicole Cooke

    the McLaren Formula One team were commissioned to produce special bikes for the British riders to take advantage of every possible “marginal and aerodynamic gain”.Custom-fit bikes were produced not only for every British male road rider but also for every member of the reserves. None were made available for the women’s road team.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,256 ✭✭✭MPFGLB


    The problem is everywhere not just with the British

    Have a look at the Italians, French and Spanish..the original homes of cycling..what do they do to promote women's cycling

    And what was it Oleg Tinkov said about women's cycling


    I don't write previews on women's cycling and neither do others on here

    Beyond Marianne Vos and Lizzie Armisted I don't know the riders

    But I agree with Daniel Freibe that trial by social media and demonizing people does not move anything forward....


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 382 ✭✭12 sprocket


    godtabh wrote: »
    It appears that after being dropped from the team she had no reason not to say anything.
    I think you will find that she actually spoke out about the coaching staff being partly responsible for the female team sprint not qualifying for Rio by underperforming at the Worlds.
    Soon after she was dropped, so she was very courageous to speak out while she was still on the Squad


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 142 ✭✭guanciale


    It can be easy to forget that professional athletes are employees and this is their job essentially. The coaching staff are middle management. I can think of no organisation other than sports where it would be viewed as acceptable to use bullying and discrimination as an acceptable managerial tactic to get the best from people and drive toward the overall goal of success.
    If the case regarding equipment availability is true then that to my mind also speaks to institutionalised discrimination. Again in any organisation other than sports this would no longer be viewed as acceptable.
    Sports professionals need to stop viewing themselves as somewhat special as it only hurts their basic rights as human beings and employees. The employment contract and organisational culture should reflect the basic norms, values and legal rights and responsibilities that we value in all other paid walks of life.
    I think that sometimes in sports the management of organisations are allowed away with this because of a drive for success allied with a perception that sport is in some way different. It's not.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,338 ✭✭✭Lusk_Doyle


    MPFGLB wrote: »
    Lots of athletes including Laura Trott have come out in support of Sutton

    Think we need to be careful not to jump to conclusion until this is investigated

    I do know Sutton is abrasive and very rude....He has said he did not say that to Varnish about having a baby

    In competitive sport there is enormous stress and pressure and no kid gloves and lots of disappointments.

    I do not support discriminatory language against para cyclists but I want to hear the full story before jumping to conclusions

    He resigned. Why would he do that if it were not true? Case closed. No further investigation needed. Now pick your side.


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 815 ✭✭✭1bryan


    MPFGLB wrote: »
    Lots of athletes including Laura Trott have come out in support of Sutton

    Lots? Who, or how many, specifically?

    I saw something about Trott but it seemed moreso to mention British Cycling rather than Sutton. But there wasn't much detail in what I read.

    Everyone deserves their day in court, but the suspension was appropriate. Sutton's subsequent decision to resign is curious. Why would someone who has done nothing wrong, resign?

    The success of British Cycling (specifically on the track) has been considerable and Sutton has made a substantial contribution to this. However, if the allegations are proved true, he has no place near cycling (or any other sport for that matter).

    Anyone that has ever been involved in coaching in any sport knows that there will always be a certain level of politics involved. British Cycling should do its utmost to shield its athletes from it. Its a distraction they don't need this close to the Olympics, so having riders make statements of support (or otherwise), is ill-advised IMO.


  • Administrators, Social & Fun Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 78,393 Admin ✭✭✭✭✭Beasty


    1bryan wrote: »
    Why would someone who has done nothing wrong, resign?

    I think you have answered your own question:
    1bryan wrote: »
    Its a distraction they don't need this close to the Olympics,

    Maybe it's better awaiting the outcome of the investigation before assuming guilt (or otherwise)


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,114 ✭✭✭stecleary


    What's this mean??

    Like the Irish, Aussies have a way of wording things that the rest of the world don't understand.


    How many times in your life have you called someone a f**king retard and mean absolutely no offence to anybody of a disability?

    the gimps and wobbles bit is hard to defend but I'd hazard a guess there's more to it than Sutton sitting in a room with the other coaches having a meeting and getting to the gimps and wobbles section.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 815 ✭✭✭1bryan


    stecleary wrote: »
    Like the Irish, Aussies have a way of wording things that the rest of the world don't understand.

    hell of a generalisation there.

    An offensive one, at that.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 6,450 ✭✭✭Harrybelafonte


    stecleary wrote: »
    Like the Irish, Aussies have a way of wording things that the rest of the world don't understand.


    How many times in your life have you called someone a f**king retard and mean absolutely no offence to anybody of a disability?

    the gimps and wobbles bit is hard to defend but I'd hazard a guess there's more to it than Sutton sitting in a room with the other coaches having a meeting and getting to the gimps and wobbles section.

    Hold on on... The Irish have a way of wording things? Then you give an example of calling someone a retard and not meaning any offence to the disabled? So, like, if I went up to an Irish person with Down syndrome and screamed at him that he was a ****in retard, that'd be totally acceptable. You're having a larf, right?

    Did you read any of accusations? He shouted it at the side of the track?


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 816 ✭✭✭zurbfoundation


    Problem now is he will walk straight into the Aussie camp and the Brit's medal count will be way down in Rio - they should have managed this a bit better


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  • Moderators, Politics Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 24,269 Mod ✭✭✭✭Chips Lovell


    Some things are more important than medals.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 4,457 ✭✭✭ford2600


    stecleary wrote: »
    Like the Irish, Aussies have a way of wording things that the rest of the world don't understand.


    How many times in your life have you called someone a f**king retard and mean absolutely no offence to anybody of a disability?

    the gimps and wobbles bit is hard to defend but I'd hazard a guess there's more to it than Sutton sitting in a room with the other coaches having a meeting and getting to the gimps and wobbles section.

    Complete horsesh1t.

    He wasn't in some miners pub in the Northern Territories, using some local slang word which he could use without offending people.

    He used a words which could only be deeply offensive in a foreign country in a professional capacity with elite athletes.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,538 ✭✭✭nak


    Problem now is he will walk straight into the Aussie camp and the Brit's medal count will be way down in Rio - they should have managed this a bit better
    Not necessarily, he's not the only track coach at BC, large team of people involved.
    His brother is the Australian women's endurance coach, hopefully he has a bit more respect for women.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 815 ✭✭✭1bryan


    ford2600 wrote: »
    He used a words which could only be deeply offensive in a foreign country in a professional capacity with elite athletes.

    Bridie O'Donnell's twitter feed is worth checking out.

    https://twitter.com/Bridie_OD

    Shes Australian, and it wasn't acceptable to her.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 6,450 ✭✭✭Harrybelafonte


    Beasty wrote: »
    I think you have answered your own question:


    Maybe it's better awaiting the outcome of the investigation before assuming guilt (or otherwise)

    Maybe. But the investigation should really be into BC itself, rather than Sutton alone. They're also in trouble for possibly selling items on eBay that were bought with funding from UK Sport.

    Tbh, this kind of thing comes back to CI as well. If choices are made re selections and the spending of public-sourced funds, the should there be more transparency within the organisations.


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 815 ✭✭✭1bryan


    An interesting interview with another BC coach, Heiko Salzwedel

    http://www.ridemedia.com.au/interviews/salzwedel-on-sutton-hes-a-straightshooter-who-speaks-his-mind/

    It doesn't really do a lot for Sutton's cause


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,277 ✭✭✭MB Lacey


    Maybe. But the investigation should really be into BC itself, rather than Sutton alone.

    Absolutely. Nicole Cooke's piece in the Guardian the other day made for very disappointing reading.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,318 ✭✭✭✭Raam


    Well done, Pete. Deleted now.
    384502.png


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,834 ✭✭✭✭Pudsy33


    Like Rowe has supported Shane Sutton too. This could turn nasty.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 815 ✭✭✭1bryan


    Pudsy33 wrote: »
    Like Rowe has supported Shane Sutton too. This could turn nasty.


    It was weak though. It didn't really do anything to suggest that Sutton is of a character that is in any way unquestionalbe.

    Its one of those evasive, politician's answers.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,834 ✭✭✭✭Pudsy33


    1bryan wrote: »
    Pudsy33 wrote: »
    Like Rowe has supported Shane Sutton too. This could turn nasty.


    It was weak though. It didn't really do anything to suggest that Sutton is of a character that is in any way unquestionalbe.

    Its one of those evasive, politician's answers.
    If he wanted to be evasive, he could have said nothing. It's not like a reporter cornered him. I just think it's in bad taste considering whats going on.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 6,450 ✭✭✭Harrybelafonte


    Pudsy33 wrote: »
    If he wanted to be evasive, he could have said nothing. It's not like a reporter cornered him. I just think it's in bad taste considering whats going on.

    There is a suggestion that BC are wheeling out riders to support Sutton in an attempt to minimise PR damage


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,834 ✭✭✭✭Pudsy33


    There is a suggestion that BC are wheeling out riders to support Sutton in an attempt to minimise PR damage

    Obviously Kennaugh misunderstood the idea!


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,630 ✭✭✭pelevin


    Raam wrote: »
    Well done, Pete. Deleted now.
    384502.png

    I think in fairness Kennaugh is only trying to say that women should stay in the kitchen & shut up.

    With friends like these, Sutton doesn't need to bother with enemies!


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 690 ✭✭✭dragratchet


    Logic seems to have abandoned kennagh there. perhaps peter if sky fields a women's giro squad, people in England would know about it


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