Hour Long Classes

Pursefan

Our principal has raised the idea of going to 1hr classes. We currently have 35 and 40 mins. I would love to hear about the experiences of other teachers? All we have heard is that neither kids or teachers like it and we don't really want to change as we think it's just about easy time table and getting everyone up to 22hrs.

newholland

Pursefan wrote: »

Our principal has raised the idea of going to 1hr classes. We currently have 35 and 40 mins. I would love to hear about the experiences of other teachers? All we have heard is that neither kids or teachers like it and we don't really want to change as we think it's just about easy time table and getting everyone up to 22hrs.

You will have to change to 40 mins in any event with new junior cycle.

Pursefan

The new arrangements state classes should be 40minutes min. There is the chance of longer. That is our fear?

newholland

Pursefan wrote: »

The new arrangements state classes should be 40minutes min. There is the chance of longer. That is our fear?

If they go longer you will have one hour per week reduced from timetable as opposed to 40 mins

evolving_doors

Just a way of cutting back on minor subjects/teachers.

Pursefan

Agreed. There is always a hidden agenda. We just want to hold it off. Any ideas?

mirrorwall14

It will be a logistical nightmare with the new Junior Cycle. Our principal seemed very pro it until the reduction in timetable for teachers came in. Principals can't reduce every junior cycle teacher by an hour a week instead of the 40 mins allowed, that would be too many hours lost to the school so the proposal he had heard was that you would have two floating hours every three weeks and the teacher would have to decide which group they weren't meeting that week. Disaster.

Also if you are a core subject you would go from seeing your students every day to seeing them three times a week. We have a parent whos child is in an hour long class school. She hates it, reckons it is impacting his learning with the irregularity. Also if a teacher is absent then for one day then the student miss a full class and a half rather than one class period.

40 minutes will be far easier to timetable. If you are changing thats what I would be saying.

newholland

Pursefan wrote: »

Agreed. There is always a hidden agenda. We just want to hold it off. Any ideas?

Do you really think that principals always have an agenda?

Pursefan

Exactly what we thought but our principal is not one for rational thought!! Thanks for the advice. All ideas really welcome!

Pursefan

Re the hidden agenda, it's just that we can see no logical benefit for us as teachers or for the kids. I have a 14 yr old who nearly collapsed when I asked her what she thought. Always open to the other side though. That's why I posted this. To get as much advice as possible.

The_Valeyard

S&S would be great fun..... An hour covering LCA with no work left for them.

highly1111

I did it in my last school. Classes were 8.45-9.30, then 9.30-10.30am then break till 11. Then 11-12, 12-1 then 2.45, 2.45-3pm. I loved the longer classes as they particularly suited my subject and the senior cycle. Just my tuppence.

RealJohn

I haven't any experience of it personally but my first thought was that in the case of practical subjects currently needing double classes, an hour would not be long enough to replace a double class but that a two hour double class would be too long, especially when timetabled opposite a non-practical subject with unfortunate history or geography teachers stuck trying to hold students' attention for two hours just because biology needs a double class.

PLL

I went to a school with hour long classes back 10 years ago. In my opinion teachers have the opportunity to give a better overview of a subject area and students have more time to understand it. I attended a few 40 min classes in another school for a few weeks and found teachers were trying to cram everything from their lesson plan in, compared to the more relaxed less pressure hour lessons I was used to.

derb12

I was talking to teachers from a school with 1 hour classes a few months ago and they were saying the 1 hour classes were brilliant. In their school the 1 hour classes had been introduced and they actually got rid of the bell!

I was at the maths counts conference last weekend and teachers were presenting their experiences of teaching problem-solving classes. Some were better than others but for every class they mentioned that they had got an extra 10 or 15 minutes added on to the normal class.

I certainly find my 35 and 40 minute classes too short a lot of the time. I'd imagine that 1 hour classes would be much less hectic. Personally I'd prefer 3 x1 hour classes to 5x40 minute classes, even though it's less class contact time, I think the time would be more productive.

Pursefan

Thanks everyone. Great to get all these points. Any feedback on kids finding it difficult especially at junior cycle?

TheSplendid

In France, classes are roughly 55 minutes long (we also started at 8.30 and finished sometimes around 5.30) at both Junior and Senior Cycle, and I remember being exhausted by the whole timetable. Personally, I think the 40 minutes classes are better, they suit my subject and the students' attention span. I wouldn't be against extending it to 45 minutes, but not a bit beyond that.

r93kaey5p2izun

I would like hour long classes for HL maths if we got 4x1hr and I think it would be ok for LC Biology. But I think an hour would be too short for JC science practicals (and surely it would be totally inadequate for Home Ec cooking). And the thoughts of FL maths or LCAs for an hour would send shivers down my spine! This would represent a significant portion of any timetable in my school so I hope we never consider this.

mirrorwall14

Pursefan wrote: »

Thanks everyone. Great to get all these points. Any feedback on kids finding it difficult especially at junior cycle?

Only anecdotally via that parent on my staff. Her kids hate it and she's not happy with it for the reasons above

Pursefan

We were thinking that it could mean you could face teaching non-stop some days as you would obviously have fewer free classes. And if you add in S and S and a 35 min lunch and possible Croke Park hours you would be wrecked some weeks!!!

The_Valeyard

From what I have heard so far, it works well for senior level, but can be chaotic for junior level.


Suppose it depends on the school & subject. Also an extra 20 minutes with those inspectors!

fall

Hour long here for years and would hate to go back to 40 minutes. I remember being so sceptical bringing it in but love it now. At a meeting recently we were asked our thoughts on it and every single teacher there loved it.
Six lessons a day. Allows really experiential learning and not just take down notes. Students were surveyed through student council and also loved it.

SlinkyL

I teach one hour classes for JC science. 2 x 1 hr per year. This is 40 minutes short every week on 4 x 40 min as it was where I used to teach.
I find it extremely difficult to get practicals done in an hour, I know the home ec teacher feels the same. I also need to have my room fully tidied up for incoming classes as I share the room, which is very, very difficult in an hour. It makes doing the practicals a nightmare tbh. Always feel rushed and harried between being short on timetabled hours overall and not having enough time to do practicals so it doesn't work for me especially with sharing lab.
I think for other subjects it could be fine but practicals need longer than an hour. In my previous school they would slot double science around break/lunch to facilitate practicals.

happywithlife

Home Ec teacher here and would hate 1 hour classes. Have only heard negatives from colleagues in other schools tbh - impossible to get students in, roll call, set up, prepare, cook, serve up & evaluate, wash up and them properly tidy up to leave room ready for next class. Maybe it could be done if you had proper access to kitchen assistants like they have in other countries. Would also hate to have reduced contact with students as you could very easily end up in a situation whereby you're often missing the same class / students due to extra curricular. Its not lije other countries where extra curricular occurs in s structured way after the school teaching day. Again we seem to be following international practices but without international supports imo

Pursefan

Thanks a million everyone. It seems a mixed bag from what I read here. I am still concerned about the junior classes and think it's too long for them. But can see some merit at senior. I still suspect it's about easy time tabling and getting all teachers up to 22hrs. I also suspect it would work better in a strongly academic school but could prove quite a challenge in others. Still a lot to consider.

joebloggs32

Pursefan wrote: »

Thanks a million everyone. It seems a mixed bag from what I read here. I am still concerned about the junior classes and think it's too long for them. But can see some merit at senior. I still suspect it's about easy time tabling and getting all teachers up to 22hrs. I also suspect it would work better in a strongly academic school but could prove quite a challenge in others. Still a lot to consider.

The motivation can't be about getting everyone up to 22 hours as we are all due to be on 21h 20 from September 2017.
I like the idea of preparing only 21/22 classes per week. I have academic subjects and would certainly welcome it. I also like the fact that I would get 1 hour s&s done at a time, meaning probably being called upon once every three weeks instead of every second week which tends to happen now.

evolving_doors

joebloggs32 wrote: »

The motivation can't be about getting everyone up to 22 hours as we are all due to be on 21h 20 from September 2017.

I like the idea of preparing only 21/22 classes per week. I have academic subjects and would certainly welcome it. I also like the fact that I would get 1 hour s&s done at a time, meaning probably being called upon once every three weeks instead of every second week which tends to happen now.

What's that about?

deiseindublin

Only those with new JC students will be down 40 mins.

man_no_plan

Pursefan wrote: »

Thanks a million everyone. It seems a mixed bag from what I read here. I am still concerned about the junior classes and think it's too long for them. But can see some merit at senior. I still suspect it's about easy time tabling and getting all teachers up to 22hrs. I also suspect it would work better in a strongly academic school but could prove quite a challenge in others. Still a lot to consider.

First years have plenty of double classes in most schools and are well able for an hour 20 so i can't see how that would be an issue personally.

As for the 22hours, if youre being paid for 22 thats what you should be doing to be fair. 33 x 40 is 22hrs anyway so that couldn't be a good reason to move.

A change like this needs to be plotted out fir theee or four years to get a balance of time. Maybe 2,3,3 for science and rotate it with other subjects. Its far from simple.

The main drawback i hear is with home ec. I worked in a school with all 35 min classes and i know the practical teachers found even the double short.

I wouldn't be in any rush until the new jc is clearly laid out. Plenty of time.

Overall though, personally, i would be in favour of it when the time is right. Easier on everyone, less homework for kids each night.

mtoutlemonde

man_no_plan wrote: »

First years have plenty of double classes in most schools and are well able for an hour 20 so i can't see how that would be an issue personally.

Yes this happens but I can only speak for my own subject - this would be once a week. I don't think they would be able for all hour long classes. Yes hour long classes would suit (or maybe not from what I'm hearing) practical teachers but would not be good for language teachers like myself who would lose contact with the students as I have them four times a week and we all know there are disruptions i.e. matches etc. which would mean students would only get one hour per week. Hour long classes could be good for senior classes but then the students aren't immersed to the language everyday. Hour long classes would be ideal for department inspections as you would be able to incorporate all the aspects of learning a language which is not always possible in a 35/40 min class.

Crazy Ivan

Worked in a school with 1hr classes for the past year. Absolutely brilliant! I would struggle to move back to 35/40 min lessons. It leaves loads of time for active learning, group work etc.

We had no bell between classes either. The only bells happened at the beginning of the day, to indicate the end of break and to indicate the end of lunch. It took about 3 - 4 weeks for everyone to get used to the ideas but it worked out great.

All students - first years included - could handle the 1-hour lessons with no hassle. Just keep them active or they'll get bored. It was rare to see kids counting down the time or anything like that.

Disadvantages were that you could miss a lot of contact with students. I taught Science and instead of 2 X 40 mins and a double lesson for first years, they reduced to 2 x 1hr and one of the lessons was on a Monday. Any bank holiday meant I only met them once that week. If you added another activity or sports event, I might only see particular students once in a 2-week period and they would fall behind. Oh and I rarely ran into difficulties with getting practicals done.

Also, there was a tendency to spend a 1-hour lesson covering what you might previously cover in 40 mins, meaning you could fall behind. It's something to be aware of if 1-hour lessons are introduced!

I think the 1-hour lessons suited some teaching styles better than others.

markievicz

I work in a school that recently moved to one hour timetables and I wasn't 100% sure about it at the beginning but to be honest I don't really notice too much a difference now.

I teach two non-practical subjects (English & Religion) and the hour suits me but I've one double at senior cycle and it is torture. I find it very hard to maintain my own interest nevermind the students interest for two hours :pac:. It was just unfortunate this year that I ended up on the option block with practical subjects.

The other thing that I found annoying was that I was timetabled with certain classes on concurrent days. eg. I had 5th years for a single on a Monday and a double on a Tuesday and that was it for the week. So if a student missed two days or I missed two days; they missed an entire week of classes. Small little issues that can be easily ironed out during timetabling though.

As regards having full days and less time off - its hard at first but you get used to it. I had 6 classes on both Monday & Tuesday so two full days and it was tough going because I literally didn't have a minute to myself for two days running. But by the time Weds came I had a much lighter few days ahead of me and I had 12 of my 22 contact hours done.

S&S is 1 class period and then 30 mins at lunchtime but because there are fewer classes to be covered I wasn't called for S&S as often as I would have been the year previously.

The Juniors don't seem to mind having the hour classes. It was definitely harder for them than the seniors to adjust to the change but they're fine now. I think they see it as having three less classes in the day rather than extra time for the classes they do have. I get a lot more work done with them and have the time to do small projects or presentations. Lots more time for active learning, technology stuff etc.

Smacruairi

Has anyone experience of hour long classes being designated as 58mins? Was this done to avoid allocating professional time as I imagine? Is that acceptable seeing as it prevents the bundling of time for SLARS etc

Leham

I was subbing between two different schools this year one had 1 hour classes, the other had 40 minute classes. I teach a practical subject and found that less work got finished by the end of the week in the one hour class as there are no double classes. The double 40 minutes meant that those students had more time to finish projects, especially when it came to doing their CBA. 20 minutes extra added onto each class makes a big difference come the end of a school term.
The people coming up with these agendas rarely take the practical subjects into consideration which besides maybe one lesson a week, are always double classes.

fall

Smacruairi wrote: »

Has anyone experience of hour long classes being designated as 58mins? Was this done to avoid allocating professional time as I imagine? Is that acceptable seeing as it prevents the bundling of time for SLARS etc

Professional time is 40 minutes a week. 58 minute classes are to account for the other 20 minutes.

joebloggs32

Smacruairi wrote: »

Has anyone experience of hour long classes being designated as 58mins? Was this done to avoid allocating professional time as I imagine? Is that acceptable seeing as it prevents the bundling of time for SLARS etc

It is done where principals are trying to get teachers as close as possible to 21 hours 20 mins.

It allows teachers to be timetabled up to 21 hrs 14 mins by allocating them 22 x 58 mins as opposed to 21 × 60 mins. The school timetable only loses 6 mins per teacher each week as opposed to 20 minutes. There is mo mechanism that enables school managers claim back those lost minutes as you cant timetable any class for less than 40 mias per circular.

However, having 58 minute classes will short change some subjects over a 3 year course. Let's say you teach a history class. If timetabled twice a week, at 1 hour you will reach the recommended minimum of 200 hours, but will fall short if given 58 minute classes.

I know of a school doing 58 mins and last year a new DP was promoted up. At the first staff meeting the DP told them she wanted to discuss methods to claw back the 6 minutes! Apparently their staff WhatsApp group was on fire that night.

On a separate note, in light of covid, the one hour classes will greatly reduce movement in the school and could be one of the tools used to combat it.

TheValeyard

Yeah...

I was dead set against hour classes, hated the idea.

Staff had a vote and it passed by one vote with an agreement that we would review it in a number of years.


As it turns out...

They are awesome. The amount of work you can get done when off is amazing. Really benefits staff, less to bring home and finish off. Senior students preferred it also, got a lot done in that hour.

It does mean a teacher has to have more prepared and vary the lesson abit more, but even after a couple of months juniors were much happier with the hour class.

If you're going away on a trip or something, you definitely need to leave work for the students as an hour of S&S is a long time.

We voted again last year on whether to keep the hour or revert to forty minutes. Only 3 votes to return to forty minutes.

joebloggs32

TheValeyard wrote: »

Yeah...

I was dead set against hour classes, hated the idea.

Staff had a vote and it passed by one vote with an agreement that we would review it in a number of years.


As it turns out...

They are awesome. The amount of work you can get done when off is amazing. Really benefits staff, less to bring home and finish off. Senior students preferred it also, got a lot done in that hour.

It does mean a teacher has to have more prepared and vary the lesson abit more, but even after a couple of months juniors were much happier with the hour class.

If you're going away on a trip or something, you definitely need to leave work for the students as an hour of S&S is a long time.

We voted again last year on whether to keep the hour or revert to forty minutes. Only 3 votes to return to forty minutes.

Similar experience for us.
We have 1 hour and it was only 1 vote that was the difference also.
A follow up survey found 95% in favour after 1 year.

combat14

less lessons to prep each day

Smacruairi

combat14 wrote: »

less lessons to prep each day

Yeah I'm in favour of thr hour class, it's the loss of the professional time that irks me. You are meant to bundle your 40 mins on a weekly basis to do the 2hr slar. But by taking 2 mins off the end of a class, you are sucking up that professional time, and all slars are now fully extra.

Just seems to be it's charging 299 for something and not giving back the euro change? Was it ever mentioned in other schools, or am I just being a bit anal!

TheValeyard

Smacruairi wrote: »

Yeah I'm in favour of thr hour class, it's the loss of the professional time that irks me. You are meant to bundle your 40 mins on a weekly basis to do the 2hr slar. But by taking 2 mins off the end of a class, you are sucking up that professional time, and all slars are now fully extra.

Just seems to be it's charging 299 for something and not giving back the euro change? Was it ever mentioned in other schools, or am I just being a bit anal!

What we were told, and it nearly caused a revolt so it hasnt been mentioned at a staff meeting since Christmas, is that with the hour classes, to make up the time difference, staff may need to teach an extra 12 class module for a year. Like a short course or something.

deiseindublin

I'm being stupid because the 1 hour class thing hasn't come up in our school but is it that:

* some schools are going with 1 hour classes, so teachers have 21 x 1 hour classes, and 40 mins prof. time with 20 spare minutes untimetabled?

* others are doing 22 x 58 min classes and 40 mins prof time, with 4 spare minutes untimetabled?

joebloggs32

TheValeyard wrote: »

What we were told, and it nearly caused a revolt so it hasnt been mentioned at a staff meeting since Christmas, is that with the hour classes, to make up the time difference, staff may need to teach an extra 12 class module for a year. Like a short course or something.

The school cant create a 12 class module and stick you into it when they like.. For starters it would be 11 hours to be made up but that's irrelevant.
You get your timetable at the beginning of the year for the whole year. They can't add on or take bits away when it suits.
It was mentioned in our place, but the circulars are clear, the maximum class contact in any 1 week is 21 hours 20.
If a school deems 1 hour classes to be more appropriate for the educational needs of its students they may proceed with timetabling teachers for 21 hours. We have had inspections and there was no problem with it. The fact we aren't timetabled for 21h 20m doesn't mean we get off completely scott free for those 20 mins. For example we have no timetabled tutor period in the week. We often will deal with bits and bobs in our own time so thats a trade off that's fair enough.

TheValeyard

joebloggs32 wrote: »

The school cant create a 12 class module and stick you into it when they like.. For starters it would be 11 hours to be made up but that's irrelevant.
You get your timetable at the beginning of the year for the whole year. They can't add on or take bits away when it suits.
It was mentioned in our place, but the circulars are clear, the maximum class contact in any 1 week is 21 hours 20.
If a school deems 1 hour classes to be more appropriate for the educational needs of its students they may proceed with timetabling teachers for 21 hours. We have had inspections and there was no problem with it. The fact we aren't timetabled for 21h 20m doesn't mean we get off completely scott free for those 20 mins. For example we have no timetabled tutor period in the week. We often will deal with bits and bobs in our own time so thats a trade off that's fair enough.

I'd like to think so, by you'd be surprised what some management might try and do.

picturehangup

I was not happy with the idea of one hour classes when we were told (supposedly consulted!) about them initially.
After two years of one hour classes, I have to say I wouldn't go back to 40 mins.
The hour long classes are great for my subject, a practical subject, they allow me to set up, spend time with each student on practical work as they all do different things, correct, set and explain homework. The time just flies by.

The only drawback is that I don't set hw quite as frequently as I would with 40 mins 5 times a week, compared to 1 hour classes 3 times a week. In addition, if students are sick, play matches, trips, etc, you will see them even less frequently, and that adds up to quite a significant amount of tuition time lost over the course of a year. They may not be there when you give the hw, but with google classroom, there is no excuse!

Smacruairi

picturehangup wrote: »

I was not happy with the idea of one hour classes when we were told (supposedly consulted!) about them initially.
After two years of one hour classes, I have to say I wouldn't go back to 40 mins.
The hour long classes are great for my subject, a practical subject, they allow me to set up, spend time with each student on practical work as they all do different things, correct, set and explain homework. The time just flies by.

The only drawback is that I don't set hw quite as frequently as I would with 40 mins 5 times a week, compared to 1 hour classes 3 times a week. In addition, if students are sick, play matches, trips, etc, you will see them even less frequently, and that adds up to quite a significant amount of tuition time lost over the course of a year. They may not be there when you give the hw, but with google classroom, there is no excuse!

Do you teach hour classes, or 58mins?

am_zarathustra

I've never heard of 58 mins anywhere......sounds like madness

Smacruairi

am_zarathustra wrote: »

I've never heard of 58 mins anywhere......sounds like madness

Yeah I'm just trying to establish is this common practice or the dp thinking they are too clever..

am_zarathustra

Smacruairi wrote: »

Yeah I'm just trying to establish is this common practice or the dp thinking they are too clever..

It is absolutely not. He sounds like words I wouldn't put on the internet. It's not clever, its extremely petty....maybe ask them why they are being so petty? Are they so bad at timetabling the 20 minutes is going to collapse the whole thing?

joebloggs32

Smacruairi wrote: »

Yeah I'm just trying to establish is this common practice or the dp thinking they are too clever..

It is a case of a DP or ETB being too clever.

The school I'm familiar with had it imposed after a consultation of 40 mins v 1 hour.
The staff left at the start of the summer expecting a new timetable with 6 classes per day and 4 on a Friday, all 1 hour each.
When they got timetables it was changed to 58 mins with 5 on a Friday.
I would have been livid if that happened in our school. I would have demanded that consultation be reoponed as it was clearly not what had been proposed.

Smacruairi

joebloggs32 wrote: »

It is a case of a DP or ETB being too clever.

The school I'm familiar with had it imposed after a consultation of 40 mins v 1 hour.
The staff left at the start of the summer expecting a new timetable with 6 classes per day and 4 on a Friday, all 1 hour each.
When they got timetables it was changed to 58 mins with 5 on a Friday.
I would have been livid if that happened in our school. I would have demanded that consultation be reoponed as it was clearly not what had been proposed.

Can I ask, even in dm, if they took it further, unions etc. It feels wrong, and goes totally against the spirit of the whole thing for me.