Calf not drinking / sucking

lanod2407

Bought a few calves last week, and I've a 3 week old female who won't feed from the teat feeder. Guessing that the guy who had her took her from her mother an hour before the mart !!

Anyway, she won't take a bottle, and can't get her to drink from a bucket either. Started trying to get her to take a teat bottle for the past 3 days, and it's a real struggle to get much more that 2 to 2.5 litres into her a day - and that's with 3 sessions of up to an hour. She'll suck now and then for a few seconds and then just stop, so I have to squeeze the teat to get 95% of it into her.
Tried to get her to take a bucket while she's sucking my fingers but I reckon there's more in the bucket AFTER than when I started.
Also tried using a Ballygowen sports bottle to see if I can just get a bit of volume into her - she bucks and gags, and half of it is down the outside of her jaw.
Spent since Friday at it, and I know it's a patience game, but she's not further forward 4 days later, and I don't want to get to the stage where she's starting to fail.
Thought of getting one of the bottles with the long tube, but I believe they're for calves who are goosed and can't function at all.

She's trying to suck a couple of the bull calves, and I'm giving her a belt to see if I can stop that.

Any advice / recommendations greatly appreciated ............ I'd nearly offer a reward!!!

patsy_mccabe

Did you try honey on the teat? Some here swear by it.

tanko

I don't know what the solution is but giving her a few belts isn't going to help. You'd think she'd suck a bottle if she was hungry.

lanod2407

tanko wrote: »

I don't know what the solution is but giving her a few belts isn't going to help. You'd think she'd suck a bottle if she was hungry.

She's not getting "belts" because she's not feeding - just getting a slap away when she tries sucking the other bull calves .................

_Brian

We had one teat for the feeder that would run milk if ya touched it at all.. Handy for training a calf to know where the milk is..
One guy behind to stop them reversing away, other person to get teat into their mouth and hold hands clamped round mussle with teat in their mouth.

Also, if theyre getting so little milk in you should throw in some electrolytes to stop dehydration, 20 mins before main feed is a good time.

49801

Checked for a temperature?

lanod2407

She's still reasonably bright and active - but I decided to go the cautious route and started tube feeding her this evening. 2 litres in 2 minutes, with little distress to her.

Brian - starting to take her to the feeder and lock her on to a teat for a few minutes before tubing her. She's not latching on yet, but at least she's starting to suck for a minute, then stops. Some progress - thanks for the advise.

49801 - Haven't checked for temperature - should be next on the list.

FineFilly

A few lads on here recently sayin to only feed beastings or fluids with a tube ,could u get a single bucket or sucky bottle,or maybe try the injection for the suck might strengthen it enough to get her latched on ,would give electrolytes to stop her getting weak

lanod2407

A bit weaker this morning - so into the box and to the vet.
She's a slight temperature and bit of a rattle in the chest - so delighted she's been checked and on a few doses. Electrolytes for the next 2 days.

FineFilly - you're right - vet said best not to tube milk after the first week or so cos the milk misses some of the breakdown process and can ferment.

Hoping to see her back to normal in a few days - mother in law is lighting a candle, so should be sorted!

_Brian

Calf should be getting electrolytes until it's drinking freely itself.

lanod2407

_Brian wrote: »

Calf should be getting electrolytes until it's drinking freely itself.

Day 11 - and I'd nearly swap for a Big Brother house!!!

Been to the vet with her twice since - she had a temperature, a rattle in her chest and scour.

She's been on electrolytes for the past week, and I present a bottle to her nearly every day, and also bring her to the teats when the others are feeding and try to get her to latch on - nothing doing, nada, zip. Also tried bucket feeding but she's having none of that either.
She's still active around the shed, but is losing weight.

She had some scour, and had daily Norodine injections. With the attempts to feed her, the twice daily tube feed of electrolytes and the injections, she's probably stressed out of her head, and now tries to avoid me when I'm around.

Used a big injection plastic to get some milk into her today - big effort to get a litre into her. Some of the lads recommended some natural yoghurt to help her stomach - tried that today also.

Starting to run out of ideas - so I'm back looking to see if anyone else has had any similar tale? I'm thinking maybe there's something wrong with her that's preventing her from sucking / drinking - so may do one more run to the vet to get that checked? Tubing twice a day can't be good either - her throat must be sore or raw, no matter how easy I try to do it.

Base price

lanod2407 wrote: »

Day 11 - and I'd nearly swap for a Big Brother house!!!

Been to the vet with her twice since - she had a temperature, a rattle in her chest and scour.

She's been on electrolytes for the past week, and I present a bottle to her nearly every day, and also bring her to the teats when the others are feeding and try to get her to latch on - nothing doing, nada, zip. Also tried bucket feeding but she's having none of that either.
She's still active around the shed, but is losing weight.

She had some scour, and had daily Norodine injections. With the attempts to feed her, the twice daily tube feed of electrolytes and the injections, she's probably stressed out of her head, and now tries to avoid me when I'm around.

Used a big injection plastic to get some milk into her today - big effort to get a litre into her. Some of the lads recommended some natural yoghurt to help her stomach - tried that today also.

Starting to run out of ideas - so I'm back looking to see if anyone else has had any similar tale? I'm thinking maybe there's something wrong with her that's preventing her from sucking / drinking - so may do one more run to the vet to get that checked? Tubing twice a day can't be good either - her throat must be sore or raw, no matter how easy I try to do it.

Did you try whole milk.
I had a bull calf a couple of years ago that wouldn't suck milk replacer but had no problems with whole milk. I eventually got him onto milk replacer by adding sugar to it and reduced the sugar over a few days.

whelan2

Do you know anyone who would let her suck a cow?

lanod2407

Base price wrote: »

Did you try whole milk.
I had a bull calf a couple of years ago that wouldn't suck milk replacer but had no problems with whole milk. I eventually got him onto milk replacer by adding sugar to it and reduced the sugar over a few days.

Whole milk - would shop milk do, or does it need to be raw milk?

_Brian

Have you checked her mouth for sores. Long shot but I've heard of it.

qo2cj1dsne8y4k

Raw milk would be best, but pasteurised milk would be better than nothing. Poor little thing sounds beyond traumatised. Years ago we had one that sounded similar. Dad bought in about 7 cattle and this beautiful little bull had no interest at all in being teat fed or bucket fed. At the beginning we started to catch him, and try force it into him because he was much too young to come off milk but he was having none of it. It just ended up making him worse, he was so terrified when he saw us coming that drinking was the last thing on his mind. What my dad started to do was mix the dry powder with pencils and he would mill the pencils. He was drinking water fine.

Obviously not ideal, but it might be an idea?

lanod2407

LexieOnRale wrote: »

Raw milk would be best, but pasteurised milk would be better than nothing. Poor little thing sounds beyond traumatised.

I'll try shop milk and see if she's any way interested. If that works I might be able to get raw milk from a local dairy guy.
You're right - she's most likely stressed out of her head - it'll be a job getting her to calm down, never mind start drinking.

qo2cj1dsne8y4k

Heat it up too, so that it's not stone cold hitting her little tummy. If she was just taken off her mam that morning she might not like cold milk. Get her used to you being nice in the shed too. Just you and her, let her know that each time she sees you coming that it's not going to be a struggle. Will she suck your fingers? Get the warm milk in a bucket, and let her suck your fingers in the bucket? It might be less scary for her than being grabbed with a teat forced in her mouth. Also when the milk is warm she might be more inclined to drink it

FineFilly

if shes sucking your fingers she might take the bottle,and pull the tab for weaker calves ,keep persisting ,heat all milk and keep pushing fluids,i have spent fair time in a shed feeding calves with a 60ml syringe ,boviferm plus is good its oral hydration plus a feed so might save you coming at her as much ,will she eat crunch or hay?,did he test her scour for any confirmation of the problem?,could wel be stress,if you had a cow you could see would she suck her?

lanod2407

FineFilly wrote: »

if shes sucking your fingers she might take the bottle,and pull the tab for weaker calves ,keep persisting ,heat all milk and keep pushing fluids,i have spent fair time in a shed feeding calves with a 60ml syringe ,boviferm plus is good its oral hydration plus a feed so might save you coming at her as much ,will she eat crunch or hay?,did he test her scour for any confirmation of the problem?,could wel be stress,if you had a cow you could see would she suck her?

Another day dawns - I've tried her with warm whole milk for a couple of days, and while she seems slightly more interested, it's not the breakthrough I'd hoped. She sucks half-heartedly for a minute, then seems to practically fall asleep. Got 2 litres into her this morning using a dosing gun - it takes around 70ml a time, and about 20 minutes to feed her.
She's eating some hay, and saw her taking some calf crunch for the first time this morning - her effort at eating it is "quite dainty" compared to the "hungry teenager" approach from the others.

Badly need to crack this one - away with work for a few days next week, and guessing I'll get sweet prayers handing this process over before I go!! :eek:

lanod2407

funkey_monkey wrote: »

When you get the calf sucking rub the top of her back. It mimics the mother reaction. I've done it a few times and noticed the calf starting to wag its tail when sucking when it has its back rubbed. Was told this by someone who deals with calves.

Also, straw is much better for young calves than hay, if you have any.

Thanks - I'll give it a try.
Straw - I've good quality straw for bedding, and there's always a couple of bales in the shed for them to eat. I've a bale of good hay in there also, so they can pull at whichever they want to.

qo2cj1dsne8y4k

Look, she's doing better than she was. You're doing great with her. Keep it up! You have to remember she's after a completely traumatic few weeks, yanked from her mammy, into a new family, horrible cold milk and a strange scary man forcing yucky milk into her.

If she's making a better effort, that's great. Never heard of the back rubbing trick but it sounds like an excellent idea. Can't wait to hear how she's getting on.

lanod2407

LexieOnRale wrote: »

Can't wait to hear how she's getting on.

I'm starting to see a reality tv show in this one!!!!

_Brian

Heart breaking but stick at it, good that she's at the crunch, is she drinking fresh water yet ?? If you got her into enough crunch and water you could forget the milk.

She's not a bit undershot in the mouth or anything, it can deter them from feeding as they are uncomfortable.

lanod2407

_Brian wrote: »

Heart breaking but stick at it, good that she's at the crunch, is she drinking fresh water yet ?? If you got her into enough crunch and water you could forget the milk.

She's not a bit undershot in the mouth or anything, it can deter them from feeding as they are uncomfortable.

What's "undershot"?

_Brian

lanod2407 wrote: »

What's "undershot"?

Lower jaw slightly too long or short leaving a misalignment when feeding, its a genetic abnormality.. I remember it here years ago in a suck that was bought in, couldnt seem to feed right no matter what, don't remember really what the conclusion was..

Bass Reeves

OP had a HE heifer like this nearly 10 years ago when I did a few calves. Like that flaking calf in ring 4 weeks old yanked off mother. Do not know why lads do that why not leave calf until it is 6-8 weeks old.

But anyway fed her milk nearly ever way you are doing except tubing and used to give her electrolyte as well. I got this home made electrolyte mix years ago

1 T-Spoon of salt
Half a T-Spoon Bread soda
100 grams(4oz's) Glucose

Made up to 2.2 L (4 pints)of Water

Got here to 5-6 weeks and eating a bit of crunch. She went to grass at about 8 weeks. At the time I was getting excess bread from a bakery. I was feeding it during the summer wetted down with water and with some soyabean meal. She used to come to the trought for that with the rest of them. Try to leave her with a few more during the day and just take her out of the pen feed her. I use to have a good sized hole in the pink teat but a good bit ran down the side of her jaw. A good trick is to wear a water proof trouser's when feeding her if your pants are getting wet as they stink of the milk.

lanod2407

Day 15. Great to see the stories of similar challenges being shared.

She'll not really take to a teat at all, no matter what's in it. I'm now feeding her with a dose gun, and she seems to be quite content and not so stressed at all. Takes around 15 minutes to feed her 2 litres, and she's starting to buck a bit just before she gets to 2 litres.
After all that work to get her fed - what does she do? Heads straight to a bull calf and starts to suck him like a pro!! There's gratitude for you. And looking at how she's latching onto him, I'm guessing there's nothing wrong with her suck.

She's eating away at the crunch - may well check out Bass Reeves idea and see if I can get some local excess bread and see if she will take that mixed up. Extended out a small space into the field with gates last night for them, and she was picking away at the grass. Haven't seen her drink water yet - plenty of fresh clean water in the trough each day.

qo2cj1dsne8y4k

Haha, little brat. is the little bull quiet? Would there be anyway you could hold the bottle/teat the other side of him when she's trying to suck him? That she's latching onto the bottle, once she gets a taste for it it might be easier for her?
Granted I can't see the little lad standing quiet enough for that but if he was quiet/they let you that close, you could try it

whelan2

Could you mix some milk powder with the crunch?

Bass Reeves

whelan2 wrote: »

Could you mix some milk powder with the crunch?

Would be slow as milk power has to be mixed in the right amount of water other calf could have digestion issues. It is like mixing milk powder too strong or weak you will get scour. Also one of these might be an option or an automatic dosing gun/drencher.

https://www.agridirect.ie/product/easy-drencher

whelan2

hows the calf?

lanod2407

whelan2 wrote: »

hows the calf?

She's still alive!!
The vet believes that something of an achievement - says that most people would have given up by now. I guess if I was doing this on a commercial scale she'd be a goner by now.

Still getting 4/5 litres a day of maverick with a dosing gun, but the morning feeds are now being reduced as they move onto nuts. I've put so much time into her now that I'm gonna stick with her until the weaning is finished in a couple of weeks and then she's going to sink or swim - a couple more weeks of milk and nuts is small money compared to what's already spent.

Standard process now is that she gets reduced volume of milk in the morning. Then they all get a mix of calf muesli and Suckler Mate nuts - mixing them as I move from muesli to nuts over the next week. She eats that when she's done with the milk, albeit somewhat slowly - like an aristocrat child who's been taught to eat slowly and delicately!!!
Hadn't seen her drink water, which was a concern, but yesterday I passed by and there was water dropping from her gob - so looks like that's OK.
They've all got access to a paddock during the day now, and she's eating grass when she's out. Looks OK, but no real life in her at all compared to the rest of them.

Will she make it? Not sure - she's still very scrawny - and the rest of them are ploughing ahead, so she's looking even smaller compared to them now. Vet gave me a tonic for another calf who is looking a bit miserable, and he's picked up great after a couple of days - I'm giving that to the heifer calf also to see if it does her any good.

That's it for now - TBH, she's after taking all the good out of it for me over the past 6 weeks - keeping a humorous outlook, but the reality is that she's been a right pain in the ass. Searching for positives - great learning curve, great interaction from you guys & gals.

patsy_mccabe

Fair play to you for keeping at it.

kowtow

lanod2407 wrote:

Still getting 4/5 litres a day of maverick with a dosing gun, but the morning feeds are now being reduced as they move onto nuts. I've put so much time into her now that I'm gonna stick with her until the weaning is finished in a couple of weeks and then she's going to sink or swim - a couple more weeks of milk and nuts is small money compared to what's already spent.

Would she take yoghurt from a trough or did you try that?

lanod2407

kowtow wrote: »

Would she take yoghurt from a trough or did you try that?

Didn't try it - gave her a few feeds of yoghurt to see if it'd settle her stomach or get her going - nothing doing.

GiantPencil

Been a while since we heard an update - is the calf in the clear now?

lanod2407

Apologies for the late reply - been travelling with work for a bit.

She's doing fine - in the context of getting on with life, eating, drinking and being out in the field with the rest of them.
Weight-wise - I'm wondering if she's much bigger than the day she arrived. Very small compared to the others, and not showing any sign of really thriving. But - she looks to be happy out, so I'm thankful for that.

They're out in the field, and getting Suckler Mate nuts twice a day.

lanod2407

September - and the little calf is .............. still quite little!
Doing fine with the rest of them - separated the smallest 5 for a while and gabe them extra feed and some milk I'd left over from weaning to see if it'd give them a boost.

She's working away with the rest of them, but alas I fear she may not make it into the ring at Tullamore next Summer!!

L1985

Took serious amount of patience-well done . She should have died by now so that was some achievement!

_Brian

Great stuff.
She may not make money but at least alive she'll cover most of her costs, dead she'd be a total loss.

White Clover

_Brian wrote: »

Great stuff.
She may not make money but at least alive she'll cover most of her costs, dead she'd be a total loss.

Spot on. As the saying goes, "There's no loss like a dead loss"

KatyMac

Great that she is still going .... I had one that sounds similar. My father bought her on a whim (left over in the trailer when the dealer brought me my 'proper' calves), she was so miserable looking that I think he felt sorry for her! Anyway, I put her in the shed in mid August that year in deep straw bedding as I thought she wouldn't survive even the cooler autumn nights. She made it and I kept her, more coz she wasn't worth selling at the time the rest were ready for off than any other reason.
That was 8 years ago.... she is still small and miserable looking, is even missing half an ear which really adds to her look, but rears a great calf every yea.
I hope your calf keeps going ... small and alive beats big and dead any day.

lanod2407

October and she's still making progress.
Herd test this week, and the vet thought she was grand - typical of an animal that has a difficult start - not up with the rest of them, but doing quite well for herself.
She was last to the trough this evening, and sped up like a prop going into a maul for the last 5 yards to get her position - no fear of her when it comes to feeding time.

qo2cj1dsne8y4k

Thrilled to hear!!!!!

Track9

Had the same problem with a calf recently ( difficult calving & she had no desire to suckle )
I used those calf bottles with a teat on the end.
Used whole ( Shop Milk ) mixed in Glucose Sugar & Spoon of Bread Soda.
I would put the teat in her mouth & squirt it down her throat, whilst giving her time to swallow. Over a few days, she developed a taste for the bottle milk until she grew stronger. Then moved on to the mother after a few days.
I find Calves are either getting better or worse ( if they are the same, looking a bit worn out, one needs to take action & get the vet if needed ) The vet gave me two four day shots ( ie she was getting shots over eight days ) & reckon that's what saved her. Best of luck & hope this helps.