Sportif police.

jethrothe2nd

Dunno if it's just me but I'm finding that there are in increasing number of people who try to treat sportives like a club outing or a race. Grand if they keep it to themselves, but when they start to try and impose it on other people it starts to take the enjoyment out of it. By all means try and get a bit of order into a group, but don't get pissed off when it doesn't work or when people who may not be hugely experienced cycling in groups don't 'conform' It's supposed to be a bit of craic and a nice day out, not a regimented drill with rules.
Here ends my rant.

Pinch Flat

jethrothe2nd wrote: »

Dunno if it's just me but I'm finding that there are in increasing number of people who try to treat sportives like a club outing or a race. Grand if they keep it to themselves, but when they start to try and impose it on other people it starts to take the enjoyment out of it. By all means try and get a bit of order into a group, but don't get pissed off when it doesn't work or when people who may not be hugely experienced cycling in groups don't 'conform' It's supposed to be a bit of craic and a nice day out, not a regimented drill with rules.
Here ends my rant.

Did a sportive today in rathoath. First 30km or so was fast - early 30s kph and ticking along approaching 40kph in places.

Most people in this group knew the rules and were used to riding in close proximity in groups - so, no passing on the left, no sudden braking, no cutting across people in front or "half wheeling". One or two were happy to ride in this group, but cause dangerous situations to arise doing one or all of what I've mentioned. The results could obviously be catastrophic and take down many riders.

So yeah police maybe if you have a word but if you can't ride safely in a fast group at speed, you should perhaps stay on your own or in pairs where you're likely to cause less carnage.

billyhead

Once you pay the entry fee you can ride a sportif at whatever pace you want as long as you obey the rules of the road;). Some people use a sportif as a training ride such as the Wicklow 200 where you get riders from A4 to A1 level riding it whom want to finish in a certain time. I dont know what the problem is with that.

07Lapierre

The problem I find is when a "well oiled" club/group is clipping along at a nice pace and others decide to join. They join at the back or they try to jump in, which can be dangerous and annoying. Joining at the back is fine.

Esroh

If say Ten Riders from XYZ Cycling Club are flying along in a Sportif why should they not expect the people who jump on their wheels to do a bit of work.
It is only a bit of crack but when you look back and see your dragging another 20 riders why should they not ask for help.

I often travel to events on my own and when I meet a group travelling at my pace I always offer to do a pull and have had some great days out in the company of Clubs from all over the country. Over the years I have got to know plenty of people and gone to events run by the clubs and they have also supported our events.
Not much point in spending a day hanging onto wheels in a bunch of riders if you are not going to interact and have the craic.

jethrothe2nd

Pinch Flat wrote:

Most people in this group knew the rules and were used to riding in close proximity in groups - so, no passing on the left, no sudden braking, no cutting across people in front or "half wheeling". One or two were happy to ride in this group, but cause dangerous situations to arise doing one or all of what I've mentioned. The results could obviously be catastrophic and take down many riders.

Pinch Flat wrote:

So yeah police maybe if you have a word but if you can't ride safely in a fast group at speed, you should perhaps stay on your own or in pairs where you're likely to cause less carnage.

Don't disagree with any of that. It's more about the attitude of some individuals rather than else

Raam

jethrothe2nd wrote: »

Don't disagree with any of that. It's more about the attitude of some individuals rather than else

C'mon... spill it... what they say to ya?

pedro_colnago

I'm in the "if u want to race get a race licence" camp, sportives attract all kinds of cyclists and as a result they should be seen for what the are. I've No problem with people doing sportives as fast as possible with a time in mind and ive done that too, but there not races and sometimes people forget that. I know some of the continental gran fondos are treated as such and events with timing chips tend to attract racers and people wanting to do it as fast as possible but some of the carry on ive witnessed down thru the years at sportives from some would put you off doing sportives. They are fluid in that you often find yourself in a group of cyclists you don't often know all doing a bit to get the benefit of cycling faster in a group. Then on the other hand you get some self promoted "road captain" giving out because someone doesn't or can't do their turn. That's fine on a club spin but it's OTT in a sportive.

JK.BMC

jethrothe2nd wrote: »

Dunno if it's just me but I'm finding that there are in increasing number of people who try to treat sportives like a club outing or a race. Grand if they keep it to themselves, but when they start to try and impose it on other people it starts to take the enjoyment out of it. By all means try and get a bit of order into a group, but don't get pissed off when it doesn't work or when people who may not be hugely experienced cycling in groups don't 'conform' It's supposed to be a bit of craic and a nice day out, not a regimented drill with rules.
Here ends my rant.

A good point, well made, in my opinion far from a rant. It raises lots of issues but the main one is that 'sportives' attract an enormous range of cycling abilities, personalities and attitudes- and given the inherent and obvious dangers of group cycling with a typical licorice allsorts peleton, it is usually necessary for each group to have some kind of Big Dick to keep things in order. That is a truism of all group cycling actually- from ProTour World level, to Ballybackwards Wheelers Beginner Spins, there must be a leader. And frankly, if you are in a group and are mucking around, yo-yo up and down, off the front and wobbling in the wind, then you deserve to be fcuked out of it. Politely at first, then maybe more "firmly"

But on the other hand, I sympathise with the OP if he has to listen to some hairy-legged MAMIL who starts barking orders to individuals who are just out to enjoy themselves and are perhaps glad to hang at the back of the group. I have seen/heard it- also makes me laugh, the howls of indignation from some guys, especially if one is travelling faster than the assorted mob "It's NOT DA TOUR O'FRANCE!!!" type of commentary.

And finally- if you ride a sportive on a full TT bike wearing earphones, you deserve to be jailed on the spot. Yes: it happens

Moflojo

jethrothe2nd wrote: »

Dunno if it's just me but I'm finding that there are in increasing number of people who try to treat sportives like a club outing or a race. Grand if they keep it to themselves, but when they start to try and impose it on other people it starts to take the enjoyment out of it. By all means try and get a bit of order into a group, but don't get pissed off when it doesn't work or when people who may not be hugely experienced cycling in groups don't 'conform' It's supposed to be a bit of craic and a nice day out, not a regimented drill with rules.
Here ends my rant.

Here's a recent opinion piece from the Guardian about how racing culture has become the dominant force in cycling, creating a more macho atmosphere than was previously experienced. It's just a lament really but I think it's relevant to the point you're making about sportives and is quite an accurate read on contemporary cycling culture in general:

http://www.theguardian.com/environment/bike-blog/2016/apr/12/no-more-hippies-and-explorers-lament-for-the-changed-world-of-cycling

Leroy42

There is a touch of needing someone to take charge of a big group, but only to the extent of making sure nobody is acting the d1ck. If XYZ Club has a group going and you jump on the back, great. What difference does it make to XYZ once you are not getting in the way or being dangerous. Why they would feel you need to work with them is beyond me. Work if you want to, don't if you don't. If you don't and sit in just be considerate and don't be jumping off near the tops of climbs or being wild into corners.

I've been on plenty of sportives and get into groups and either they go too fast, too slow or I think that one or two of the group is a danger to me then I will either go ahead or more usually drop back. Its not really that difficult.

Yes, you get some d1ck that wants to play road captain but you get them everywhere and they are a tiny number. You get them on club runs as well as races thinking they know everything and that their plan is the only way to do anything. Ignore them.

Just concentrate on keeping a smooth line and staying safe and at your own pace. If you can gain from sucking wheels then good for you, at some point someone will be happy for your assistance.

I go out to enjoy myself. For some that is the scenery, the banter, getting some miles in and time away from the kids for others its to push themselves on a route that wouldn't be covered in races. Each to their own and good for them for getting out on the bike.

It's just me and my bike though. Yes, of course I pay attention to others, and join in the groups and the banter, but I am doing the cycle for me, not for some dude with a Napoleon complex.

NeedMoreGears

For safety reasons I prefer that a group knows reasonably what its doing. If someone has to organize it, I don't mind providing they don't get all preachy about it. I'll try do my turns unless I'm too wrecked in which case I'll shamelessly wheelsuck at the back and happily ignore any ill-mannered encouragement to come up to the front.

The great thing about sportifs is that there is always another group. If I find the speed/rider skills/general whinging not to my liking I'll drop off the back or head on up the road.

Eamonnator

NeedMoreGears wrote: »

For safety reasons I prefer that a group knows reasonably what its doing. If someone has to organize it, I don't mind providing they don't get all preachy about it. I'll try do my turns unless I'm too wrecked in which case I'll shamelessly wheelsuck at the back and happily ignore any ill-mannered encouragement to come up to the front.

The great thing about sportifs is that there is always another group. If I find the speed/rider skills/general whinging not to my liking I'll drop off the back or head on up the road.

I think, that just about covers everything, that needs to be said about the subject.

TGD

Moflojo wrote: »

Here's a recent opinion piece from the Guardian about how racing culture has become the dominant force in cycling, creating a more macho atmosphere than was previously experienced. It's just a lament really but I think it's relevant to the point you're making about sportives and is quite an accurate read on contemporary cycling culture in general:

http://www.theguardian.com/environment/bike-blog/2016/apr/12/no-more-hippies-and-explorers-lament-for-the-changed-world-of-cycling

A nice article:

"...Cycling has become the new golf. It’s what men of a certain age, men with money and power, chat about after meetings. The focus has moved to sportives, to carbon fibre frames, to Rapha Sky-branded kits, to gels, training techniques, times, pace and cadence .."

This reminds me of a lot of the type of advice newcomers get on this board.

Wishbone Ash

Leroy42 wrote: »

...Yes, you get some d1ck that wants to play road captain but you get them everywhere....

On a well known sportive last year, I caught up with a particular group and decided to sit in for a while until I discovered the 'captain' was blowing a whistle every 30 seconds or so for the roll overs. Feck this I said to myself and put the foot down and continued solo.

Eamonnator

Wishbone Ash wrote: »

On a well known sportive last year, I caught up with a particular group and decided to sit in for a while until I discovered the 'captain' was blowing a whistle every 30 seconds or so for the roll overs. Feck this I said to myself and put the foot down and continued solo.

That happened me a couple of years ago on Lap The Lough.

NiallBoo

Wishbone Ash wrote: »

On a well known sportive last year, I caught up with a particular group and decided to sit in for a while until I discovered the 'captain' was blowing a whistle every 30 seconds or so for the roll overs. Feck this I said to myself and put the foot down and continued solo.

Phew, if he weren't blowing that whistle some of them could have been in danger of having fun.

eeeee

If you want to join a group you have to abide by the groups rules, if you don't like instruction simply don't join a group that's less instruction-y. I really don't see what the problem is.

I would never join a group and not work, even just for a short time. It's a bit dick-y IMO. If you're dying ask if you can join onto the back then grand but don't get in the way of the order/rhythm of the group. Simples. It's a sportive, so logically there'd be a few groups on the road, well that's my experience anyway, and if you don't like how the group is running surely you can just leave and join another one/go off on your own?
Personally I hate riding in a group with people who don't know how to ride in groups properly as they stress me out.

eeeee

Wishbone Ash wrote: »

On a well known sportive last year, I caught up with a particular group and decided to sit in for a while until I discovered the 'captain' was blowing a whistle every 30 seconds or so for the roll overs. Feck this I said to myself and put the foot down and continued solo.

Jesus I've never heard of anything like that :eek:

Maybe I haven't been exposed to extreme group captainness!

eeeee

Moflojo wrote: »

Here's a recent opinion piece from the Guardian about how racing culture has become the dominant force in cycling, creating a more macho atmosphere than was previously experienced. It's just a lament really but I think it's relevant to the point you're making about sportives and is quite an accurate read on contemporary cycling culture in general:

http://www.theguardian.com/environment/bike-blog/2016/apr/12/no-more-hippies-and-explorers-lament-for-the-changed-world-of-cycling

What a profoundly irritation article. 'Things are changing and I don't like it'. He has a point about the consumerism and commodification of cycling but jesus more 'I hate racers' attitude. It's also quite sexist, it presumes racing is a testosterone filled male environment. Admittedly men make up the majority of racers but I was one one 42 women racing in one race last Sunday, we're a not-insignificant proportion of the racing population :rolleyes:

Racing has been a very, very welcoming, open and friendly world to me, and I have never witnessed snobbery or looking down upon people who don't race. I don't know where he's coming from with that attitude, I certainly never witnessed it.

Everyone cycles for different reasons, there's no need for such divisiveness.

TL; DR: Why can't we all just be friends?!

pedro_colnago

The worst I saw was at the ring of Kerry a few years ago, u had the total extremes from the fella zig zagging up a hill on a high nelly to a high speed train of club cyclists whizzing past and nearly taking out other cyclists. It's a combination of human nature, testosterone, egos and different standards of cycling all jumbled up on a road. Common sense often goes out the window. There are also some (a minority of course) who think because they are in cycling club gear their in some way superior to those who aren't. But then on the other hand they tend to have better cycling etiquette when cycling in groups. Sportives are supposed to be fun and their marked under the leisure section in the cycling ireland calendar. Some twit barking out orders or with a whistle isn't fun.

eeeee

pedro_colnago wrote: »

The worst I saw was at the ring of Kerry a few years ago, u had the total extremes from the fella zig zagging up a hill on a high nelly to a high speed train of club cyclists whizzing past and nearly taking out other cyclists. It's a combination of human nature, testosterone, egos and different standards of cycling all jumbled up on a road. Common sense often goes out the window. There are also some (a minority of course) who think because they are in cycling club gear their in some way superior to those who aren't. But then on the other hand they tend to have better cycling etiquette when cycling in groups. Sportives are supposed to be fun and their marked under the leisure section in the cycling ireland calendar. Some twit barking out orders or with a whistle isn't fun.

Bullshyte. This just isn't true in my experience. If I'm on my own on the road and I get passed out by a club spin I don't feel in any way inferior, nor do I feel superior in my own club kit

Nothing wrong with a tight, high-speed well organised group. Following your own reasoning all sportives should be run as quock as the slowest cyclist :rolleyes:

Some people are faster and slower than others. They will cycle accordingly. That's it. I don't get the hate for club cyclists at events. In fairness, I haven't done a lot of sportives, but those I have done have been on my own. I fell into groups, worked with them. I personally loose the will to go more than 40k on my own. Boring! But equally there are more that hate company.

Everyone's different and go about things differently. There will always be people faster than you. They will pass you out. There may be more than one going faster together. Failing to see the issue here!

pedro_colnago

gadetra wrote: »

Bullshyte. This just isn't true in my experience. If I'm on my own on the road and I get passed out by a club spin I don't feel in any way inferior, nor do I feel superior in my own club kit

Nothing wrong with a tight, high-speed well organised group. Following your own reasoning all sportives should be run as quock as the slowest cyclist :rolleyes:

Some people are faster and slower than others. They will cycle accordingly. That's it. I don't get the hate for club cyclists at events. In fairness, I haven't done a lot of sportives, but those I have done have been on my own. I fell into groups, worked with them. I personally loose the will to go more than 40k on my own. Boring! But equally there are more that hate company.

Everyone's different and go about things differently. There will always be people faster than you. They will pass you out. There may be more than one going faster together. Failing to see the issue here!

That's your opinion Youre entitled to it. I've seen enough carry on over the the years from fellow "club" cyclists on sportives that leave a lot to be desired. Speed has nothing to do with it. I'm all for hammering it but at the end of the day their fun and their not races. They are to be enjoyed. Some people loose sight of that sometimes
Where do I say sportives should cater for the slowest cyclist? Now that is "bullshyte" and you are missing the point entirely.

terrydel

jethrothe2nd wrote: »

Dunno if it's just me but I'm finding that there are in increasing number of people who try to treat sportives like a club outing or a race. Grand if they keep it to themselves, but when they start to try and impose it on other people it starts to take the enjoyment out of it. By all means try and get a bit of order into a group, but don't get pissed off when it doesn't work or when people who may not be hugely experienced cycling in groups don't 'conform' It's supposed to be a bit of craic and a nice day out, not a regimented drill with rules.
Here ends my rant.

Totally agree with you. Cant stand all that self-important nonsense.
All this pointing out every pebble on the ground too, shut up and just get on with it!

terrydel

pedro_colnago wrote: »

I'm in the "if u want to race get a race licence" camp, sportives attract all kinds of cyclists and as a result they should be seen for what the are. I've No problem with people doing sportives as fast as possible with a time in mind and ive done that too, but there not races and sometimes people forget that. I know some of the continental gran fondos are treated as such and events with timing chips tend to attract racers and people wanting to do it as fast as possible but some of the carry on ive witnessed down thru the years at sportives from some would put you off doing sportives. They are fluid in that you often find yourself in a group of cyclists you don't often know all doing a bit to get the benefit of cycling faster in a group. Then on the other hand you get some self promoted "road captain" giving out because someone doesn't or can't do their turn. That's fine on a club spin but it's OTT in a sportive.

Gran fondos really arent sportives at all.

eeeee

pedro_colnago wrote: »

That's your opinion Youre entitled to it. I've seen enough carry on over the the years from fellow "club" cyclists on sportives that leave a lot to be desired. Speed has nothing to do with it. I'm all for hammering it but at the end of the day their fun and their not races. They are to be enjoyed. Some people loose sight of that sometimes
Where do I say sportives should cater for the slowest cyclist? Now that is "bullshyte" and you are missing the point entirely.

You have implied that riding hard and fast 'hammering it but at the end if the day they're fun and they're not races'. Riding fast, 'hammering' it doesn't mean you're not having fun or enjoying it, or turning the day into a race. People who actually race are very, very familiar with the differences between a race and a sportive. I have come across some guys who don't race who want to 'beat' everyone (this despite the fact that most of their fellow cyclists stop for tea and cake in the middle :pac: ).

You have repeatedly suggested that hammering it, riding fast in a group are not suitable ways to do a sportive. Therefore the logical conclusion to that Line of thought (being reductive) is that everyone his at the same speed sui no one gets passed out by faster groups, and people don't hammer it.

I call bullshyte on people not being ok with others going fast in sportives. Everyone goes at different speeds, nature of the thing. If you don't like it, it don't want to be part of a group don't join them! Or just concentrate on your day, enjoy it totals and don't worry about what people are doing up the road.


Terrydel people not calling obstacles out in a group is a pain in the cnut. Literally. Maybe some take it too far, I've never experienced that, maybe I've been lucky. I have experienced people not calling things out. And I've done it myself :O And it hurt. Oh yes it does!

pedro_colnago

terrydel wrote: »

Gran fondos really arent sportives at all.

I know. The line between gran fondos/cyclosportifs/sportives in this country are blurred. Some seem to treat sportives as a gran fondo/race. They are not either. They are leisure events that cater for all kinds of cyclist.
ive done a few abroad and I don't recall the levels of road captaining that seems to go on here during them. But maybe I was suffering too much to notice it

pedro_colnago

gadetra wrote: »

You have implied that riding hard and fast 'hammering it but at the end if the day they're fun and they're not races'. Riding fast, 'hammering' it doesn't mean you're not having fun or enjoying it, or turning the day into a race. People who actually race are very, very familiar with the differences between a race and a sportive. I have come across some guys who don't race who want to 'beat' everyone (this despite the fact that most of their fellow cyclists stop for tea and cake in the middle :pac: ).

You have repeatedly suggested that hammering it, riding fast in a group are not suitable ways to do a sportive. Therefore the logical conclusion to that Line of thought (being reductive) is that everyone his at the same speed sui no one gets passed out by faster groups, and people don't hammer it.

I call bullshyte on people not being ok with others going fast in sportives. Everyone goes at different speeds, nature of the thing. If you don't like it, it don't want to be part of a group don't join them! Or just concentrate on your day, enjoy it totals and don't worry about what people are doing up the road.


Terrydel people not calling obstacles out in a group is a pain in the cnut. Literally. Maybe some take it too far, I've never experienced that, maybe I've been lucky. I have experienced people not calling things out. And I've done it myself :O And it hurt. Oh yes it does!

I race, I also do sportives. I treat both differently because they are different. That is my point. I'm not talking about speed that I or anyone does a sportive in. I don't care if it takes 5 hours or 9 hours at the end of the day nobody but the person who does it in is really bothered. Read the OPs thread im simply agreeing with some of his observations based on some of the carry on ive witnessed.
P.s. Ease up there on the deducing there Sherlock, I never made any judgement on how fast or how slow anyone should cycle in a sportive

JK.BMC

terrydel wrote: »

Totally agree with you. Cant stand all that self-important nonsense.
All this pointing out every pebble on the ground too, shut up and just get on with it!

Hahahaa! That's hilarious. I know what you mean, although calling obvious obstacles/hazards is necessary.

But!

"CAAAAAARRR!!!!!!!!!" and "SSURRRRFFISSS!!!!!!" with yowling cacophany of shrieking and teeth knashing wrecks my head

terrydel

JK.BMC wrote: »

Hahahaa! That's hilarious. I know what you mean, although calling obvious obstacles/hazards is necessary.

But!

"CAAAAAARRR!!!!!!!!!" and "SSURRRRFFISSS!!!!!!" with yowling cacophany of shrieking and teeth knashing wrecks my head

Drives me crackers, i saw the Laurels charity cycle passing my house on boot road recently, watched out the window, and all you culd hear was people shouting 'slowing' or 'car'. Jaysus its a main road coming up to lights, they had motorcycle outriders front and back, where travelling at snails pace anyway, theres no need for it.
Its cringey.
I did the w200 on me own last year, some of the groups I got into it was ridiculous lsitening to every solid object they passed being highlighted.

Wishbone Ash

terrydel wrote: »

...All this pointing out every pebble on the ground too, shut up and just get on with it!

In my experience Northern Ireland based clubs tend to totally overdo it which defeats the purpose and just leads to a 'cry wolf' mentality.

...and calling 'car down' on a wide two-way road! WTF?

terrydel

pedro_colnago wrote: »

I know. The line between gran fondos/cyclosportifs/sportives in this country are blurred. Some seem to treat sportives as a gran fondo/race. They are not either. They are leisure events that cater for all kinds of cyclist.
ive done a few abroad and I don't recall the levels of road captaining that seems to go on here during them. But maybe I was suffering too much to notice it

Totally agree, Ive also done a few abroad and found the attitude of the cyclists far better and more friendly.

very little of the know all mentality Ive seen frequently here.

07Lapierre

Personally, when riding in a large group, I find all the shouting very distracting! If there's a pothole, just point at it ( and track it as you ride by)

terrydel

Wishbone Ash wrote: »

In my experience Northern Ireland based clubs tend to totally overdo it which defeats the purpose and just leads to a 'cry wolf' mentality.

...and calling 'car down' on a wide two-way road! WTF?

Probably concerned about explosives!

pedro_colnago

terrydel wrote: »

Totally agree, Ive also done a few abroad and found the attitude of the cyclists far better and more friendly.

very little of the know all mentality Ive seen frequently here.

I could hypothesise as to why that is but I wont for fear it might be a bit too controversial....but I will say mass participation cycling in Ireland is a relatively new thing and it sometimes shows.

terrydel

pedro_colnago wrote: »

I could hypothesise as to why that is but I wont for fear it might be a bit too controversial....but I will say mass participation cycling in Ireland is a relatively new thing and it sometimes shows.

Yep, I think theres a bit of the 'old money, new money' comparison to be made

eeeee

pedro_colnago wrote: »

I race, I also do sportives. I treat both differently because they are different. That is my point. I'm not talking about speed that I or anyone does a sportive in. I don't care if it takes 5 hours or 9 hours at the end of the day nobody but the person who does it in is really bothered. Read the OPs thread im simply agreeing with some of his observations based on some of the carry on ive witnessed.
P.s. Ease up there on the deducing there Sherlock, I never made any judgement on how fast or how slow anyone should cycle in a sportive

As do I. I don't race sportives, I haven't done one for a couple of years in fairness. I also read the OP and I disagree. In a sportive what does it matter what some club are doing up the road? It's not a race so it doesn't matter. People going faster or slower than you, it doesn't matter. If a club want to ride quickly together, provided they provide notice and pass everyone safely what does it matter? Groups forming, if you want to join join, if you don't like it don't, you don't have to work together, unless you want to be part of a group then do! I don't think it has to be so complicated.

Andalucia

our club group would often shout left if passing a cyclist or group ahead of us - often I have heard the cyclists giving out as we pass saying I was keeping left - damned if you do and damned if you don't

If your in a group, everything needs to be called - slight overreaction or change of direction and its going to be carnage if this results in wheels touching

pedro_colnago

gadetra wrote: »

As do I. I don't race sportives, I haven't done one for a couple of years in fairness. I also read the OP and I disagree. In a sportive what does it matter what some club are doing up the road? It's not a race so it doesn't matter. People going faster or slower than you, it doesn't matter. If a club want to ride quickly together, provided they provide notice and pass everyone safely what does it matter? Groups forming, if you want to join join, if you don't like it don't, you don't have to work together, unless you want to be part of a group then do! I don't think it has to be so complicated.

It's not complicated at all. You're the one calling me a bull****ter. I'm saying your entitled to your opinion. I'm saying ive done a hell of a lot of sportives over the years and most (but not all) of the stupid dangerous things I've seen on sportives have tended to have been done by people in club gear. Then there's the road nazi element barking out orders. (Also usually someone in club gear) It has NOTHING to do with speed or how fast a group or a cyclist goes. Do I keep having to point out I don't care what speed or how fast a sportive is done?
It's not that long ago that there was a talk about the ring of Kerry cycle and that the organisers didnt want cycling clubs using it as a training spin, why do you think that was?
I've also cycled abroad and there's none of the same rubbish that tends to go on in this country in mass events. Enjoy the bloody things, cycling is a hard sport whether you wear a club Jersey or you don't.

eeeee

pedro_colnago wrote: »

It's not complicated at all. You're the one calling me a bull****ter. I'm saying your entitled to your opinion. I'm saying ive done a hell of a lot of sportives over the years and most (but not all) of the stupid dangerous things I've seen on sportives have tended to have been done by people in club gear. Then there's the road nazi element barking out orders. (Also usually someone in club gear) It has NOTHING to do with speed or how fast a group or a cyclist goes. Do I keep having to point out I don't care what speed or how fast a sportive is done?
It's not that long ago that there was a talk about the ring of Kerry cycle and that the organisers didnt want cycling clubs using it as a training spin, why do you think that was?
I've also cycled abroad and there's none of the same rubbish that tends to go on in this country in mass events. Enjoy the bloody things, cycling is a hard sport whether you wear a club Jersey or you don't.

My point is that every time you say 'enjoy the tings' you also mention in the same sentence (I think every time) not using the sportive as a race, you mentioned large groups in club gear passing people out, 'hammering' it, then as soon as you mention hammering it, racing etc. you say why can't people just have fun and enjoy it there are enough places to race. You have mentioned this several times, hence me equating speed and perceived enjoyment. Going fast doesn't mean you are enjoying it, going at a more relaxed pace in other groups doesn't mean you're enjoying it either, my point is there is no one way to enjoy a sportive, you ride it how you want, how you enjoy it, and, as it's not a race it doesn't matter what other people are doing up or down the road, in or out of groups, as long as they are safe. Saying other wise is bull in my opinion. If you don't like how others are riding, don't ride with them. Simple.

pedro_colnago

gadetra wrote: »

My point is that every time you say 'enjoy the tings' you also mention in the same sentence (I think every time) not using the sportive as a race, you mentioned large groups in club gear passing people out, 'hammering' it, then as soon as you mention hammering it, racing etc. you say why can't people just have fun and enjoy it there are enough places to race. You have mentioned this several times, hence me equating speed and perceived enjoyment. Going fast doesn't mean you are enjoying it, going at a more relaxed pace in other groups doesn't mean you're enjoying it either, my point is there is no one way to enjoy a sportive, you ride it how you want, how you enjoy it, and, as it's not a race it doesn't matter what other people are doing up or down the road, in or out of groups, as long as they are safe. Saying other wise is bull in my opinion. If you don't like how others are riding, don't ride with them. Simple.

Jesus wept! When did I say anything about speed being a factor!? every single time ive replied to you ive said its not about speed!!!! I don't care how fast or how slow anyone goes! Stop reiterating an argument im not making! I'm not talking about how fast or how slow people go on sportives. Stop the strawman arguing.

guanciale

Wishbone Ash wrote: »

On a well known sportive last year, I caught up with a particular group and decided to sit in for a while until I discovered the 'captain' was blowing a whistle every 30 seconds or so for the roll overs. Feck this I said to myself and put the foot down and continued solo.

I wonder was this a large group of cyclists training for a multiday charity ride at the Ring of Kerry. If so I have also had the displeasure if that road captains company. If it is who I think it is then that individual has issues and would in my book fall into the category of road nazi.

eeeee

pedro_colnago wrote: »

The worst I saw was at the ring of Kerry a few years ago, u had the total extremes from the fella zig zagging up a hill on a high nelly to a high speed train of club cyclists whizzing past and nearly taking out other cyclists. It's a combination of human nature, testosterone, egos and different standards of cycling all jumbled up on a road. Common sense often goes out the window. There are also some (a minority of course) who think because they are in cycling club gear their in some way superior to those who aren't. But then on the other hand they tend to have better cycling etiquette when cycling in groups. Sportives are supposed to be fun and their marked under the leisure section in the cycling ireland calendar. Some twit barking out orders or with a whistle isn't fun.

The worst you saw was someone going slowly up a hill and a bunch of club cyclists 'whizzing past' nearly taking out other cyclists, here is the speed=no fun correlation. It also suggests a slower cyclist is also a danger. Again, speed is a factor.

pedro_colnago wrote: »

That's your opinion Youre entitled to it. I've seen enough carry on over the the years from fellow "club" cyclists on sportives that leave a lot to be desired. Speed has nothing to do with it. I'm all for hammering it but at the end of the day their fun and their not races. They are to be enjoyed. Some people loose sight of that sometimes
Where do I say sportives should cater for the slowest cyclist? Now that is "bullshyte" and you are missing the point entirely.

Here you say speed is nothing to do with it but then immediately sate that you're all for hammering it but it's for fun not a race, thus equating speed = not fun.

pedro_colnago wrote: »

I know. The line between gran fondos/cyclosportifs/sportives in this country are blurred. Some seem to treat sportives as a gran fondo/race. They are not either. They are leisure events that cater for all kinds of cyclist.
ive done a few abroad and I don't recall the levels of road captaining that seems to go on here during them. But maybe I was suffering too much to notice it

Again, you're equating racing, a speed event, with a lack of enjoyment at a sportive.

Pretty clear to me!

Wishbone Ash

guanciale wrote: »

I wonder was this a large group of cyclists training for a multiday charity ride at the Ring of Kerry. If so I have also had the displeasure if that road captains company. If it is who I think it is then that individual has issues and would in my book fall into the category of road nazi.

No - it was in Leinster.

guanciale

Wishbone Ash wrote: »

No - it was in Leinster.

That's bad - there might be more than one whistle blowing loon on the roads.

OleRodrigo

terrydel wrote: »

I did the w200 on me own last year, some of the groups I got into it was ridiculous listening to every solid object they passed being highlighted.

The W200 takes the biscuit. Like a bunch of red-faced banisteoirs bellowing orders from the side of the pitch, but on bikes!

You wouldn't get it on the comedy channel. Knee socks and everything.

terrydel

gadetra wrote: »

The worst you saw was someone going slowly up a hill and a bunch of club cyclists 'whizzing past' nearly taking out other cyclists, here is the speed=no fun correlation. It also suggests a slower cyclist is also a danger. Again, speed is a factor.



Here you say speed is nothing to do with it but then immediately sate that you're all for hammering it but it's for fun not a race, thus equating speed = not fun.




Again, you're equating racing, a speed event, with a lack of enjoyment at a sportive.

Pretty clear to me!

No, thats you taking what you want from what he's said. Hes clearly stated his opinions re. speed, why not have the decency to just accept his word on it?
And you are a moderator here? Good God!

pedro_colnago

gadetra wrote: »

The worst you saw was someone going slowly up a hill and a bunch of club cyclists 'whizzing past' nearly taking out other cyclists, here is the speed=no fun correlation. It also suggests a slower cyclist is also a danger. Again, speed is a factor.



Here you say speed is nothing to do with it but then immediately sate that you're all for hammering it but it's for fun not a race, thus equating speed = not fun.




Again, you're equating racing, a speed event, with a lack of enjoyment at a sportive.

Pretty clear to me!

Sweet and loving jesus...... Ok shall I elaborate, ive seen crashes ive seen stupid decents, ive seen arguments on the road and at food stops over calling hole, dangerous over takes. Shall I go on? Sprinting over white lines on open roads.
Fellahs getting upset because they "towed" someone up a hill, most of these things done by club cyclists. I won't mention the road nazi element.
Stop with the straw man argument! I'm not equating anything with anything, you have called me a bull****er and you have made wrong deductions to suit your own biases. Thats what's clear. Strawman arguing at its finest.
The ring of Kerry high nelly and the group flying past "whizzing" was merely an example of the two extremes but don't let that get in the way of your ability to misrepresent another persons point

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pedro_colnago wrote: »

Sweet and loving jesus...... Ok shall I elaborate, ive seen crashes ive seen stupid decents, ive seen arguments on the road and at food stops over calling hole, dangerous over takes. Shall I go on? Sprinting over white lines,
Fellahs getting upset because they "towed" someone up a hill, most of these things done by club cyclists. I won't mention the road nazi element.
Stop with the straw man argument! I'm not equating anything with anything, you have called me a bull****er and you have made wrong deductions to suit your own biases. Thats what's clear. Strawman arguing at its finest.
The ring of Kerry was merely an example of the two extremes but don't let that get in the way of your ability to misrepresent another persons point

None of the above you mentioned in your earlier posts! As I highlighted you used words like 'whizzing' 'hammering' and 'race' to delineate the problems you had with certain sportive riders.

I never called you a bullshyter, I called what you said bullshyte. Attack the post not the poster. Very important distinction. You decided to take it to heart. I did not suffer sweetly in any ecclesiastical fashion, I believe you were doing that all yourself!

I stand by my opinion, based on what you posted. I'm sorry you disagree, but as this isn't a peer review opinions are allowed to differ, and that is what has happened here.

Back on topic, in my experience bad riding isn't limited to club cyclists, and you're free to join or not join whatever groups you want. I don't see the same problems with them as the OP dies. That said, as I already stated I haven't done a sportive in a while, however unless things have changed drastically in the last year and a half I believe my experience is representative for me.

pedro_colnago

gadetra wrote: »

None of the above you mentioned in your earlier posts! As I highlighted you used words like 'whizzing' 'hammering' and 'race' to delineate the problems you had with certain sportive riders.

I never called you a bullshyter, I called what you said bullshyte. Attack the post not the poster. Very important distinction. You decided to take it to heart. I did not suffer sweetly in any ecclesiastical fashion, I believe you were doing that all yourself!

I stand by my opinion, based on what you posted. I'm sorry you disagree, but as this isn't a peer review opinions are allowed to differ, and that is what has happened here.

Back on topic, in my experience bad riding isn't limited to club cyclists, and you're free to join or not join whatever groups you want. I don't see the same problems with them as the OP dies. That said, as I already stated I haven't done a sportive in a while, however unless things have changed drastically in the last year and a half I believe my experience is representative for me.

gadetra wrote: »

None of the above you mentioned in your earlier posts! As I highlighted you used words like 'whizzing' 'hammering' and 'race' to delineate the problems you had with certain sportive riders.

I never called you a bullshyter, I called what you said bullshyte. Attack the post not the poster. Very important distinction. You decided to take it to heart. I did not suffer sweetly in any ecclesiastical fashion, I believe you were doing that all yourself!

I stand by my opinion, based on what you posted. I'm sorry you disagree, but as this isn't a peer review opinions are allowed to differ, and that is what has happened here.

Back on topic, in my experience bad riding isn't limited to club cyclists, and you're free to join or not join whatever groups you want. I don't see the same problems with them as the OP dies. That said, as I already stated I haven't done a sportive in a while, however unless things have changed drastically in the last year and a half I believe my experience is representative for me.[/quo


Here is a shovel you can dig more with that...... I'm not going to go back and analyse what you have said for the purpose of arguing. Your opinion is your own and I may not agree with it but I certainly won't lower myself to using the term bullshyte in opening gambit in my response. A small bit of respect Rather than a profanity is more apt especially from a moderator. ........ You are cycling with a club tho maybe you learned that arrogance there too. (And this is coming from a person cycling in a club for a long time)

pedro_colnago

@ gadetra

Strawman argument yet again ...Here is a shovel you can dig more with that...... I'm not going to go back and analyse what you have said for the purpose of arguing. Your opinion is your own and I may not agree with it but I certainly won't lower myself to using the term bullshyte in opening gambit in my response. A small bit of respect Rather than a profanity is more apt especially from a moderator. ........ You are cycling with a club tho maybe you learned that arrogance there too. (And this is coming from a person cycling in a club for a long time)