PayPal dispute. Buyer received item then took money back

DPdrummer

Hi guys, Im unsure of what to do right now. I accepted an offer from user housewife1973 on Adverts. The agreed price was €600 they transferred 500 and I then met the users 'Son' with who handed me the extra €100 cash when I provided him with the phone.

This user has now filed a dispute saying they never received the item and that they have tried contacting me etc. None of this is true. Upon further investigation I have found that there is no 'Son' and that the person I met was the user.

I have escalated the dispute to a 'Claim' and stated that I have screenshots to prove they met me and received the item. I met this person outside a Spar so if necessary I could possibly request the CCTV footage of the night?

Either way this is not something I was expecting to have to deal with.

Any advice would be appreciated.

nhunter100

Not sure about the rest of your post but not a hope of you getting the CCTV footage.

Hoboo

I'd be ringing the gardai, that's theft/fraud.

DPdrummer

Why no hope of getting the CCTV?

If nothing is done by tomorrow I will contact the gardai. Just not sure if they can do very much in this situation.

nhunter100

DPdrummer wrote:

Why no hope of getting the CCTV?

Data protection laws.

Sono

Sorry to hear this, have you withdrawn the money from your PayPal account yet?

DPdrummer

Sono wrote: »

Sorry to hear this, have you withdrawn the money from your PayPal account yet?

Yes the money had been withdrawn a few days ago thankfully but if PayPal side with this guy the money will be taken from my Bank Account

the_pen_turner

can you freeze your bank account so that any withdraws are refused.

Sono

Im sure this is a common occurrence with PayPal sales, scammers everywhere, are PayPal looking for you to refund the money? Also I know it's too late now but for future reference I do not recommend dealing with anyone on adverts unless they have a decent amount of feedback and it's a cash deal.

DPdrummer

the_pen_turner wrote: »

can you freeze your bank account so that any withdraws are refused.

This is something I will be checking with my bank tomorrow morning

DPdrummer

Sono wrote: »

Im sure this is a common occurrence with PayPal sales, scammers everywhere, are PayPal looking for you to refund the money? Also I know it's too late now but for future reference I do not recommend dealing with anyone on adverts unless they have a decent amount of feedback and it's a cash deal.

Yes I believe if they side with him I will have to refund the money. Yes unfortunately I should have known better.

newme2006

A similar thing happened me a few years back except it was via ebay and the buyer was in Germany. I sold a radio for a car which cost €600 - paid €90 to get it delivered to the buyer, fully tracked and insured and he contacted me shortly after to say that it didn't work or something.

He immediately logged a claim with Paypal who made him provide proof that he posted it back to me, however, what I received was an old used radio - needless to say, I was livid!

Paypal, of course, always side with the buyer so you'll need to jump through hoops to prove your side of the claim - They took the money back from account as soon as he added a tracking number for the package, this made it even more painful! - in the end, I had to go to the Garda station and make a statement, which I then had to forward to the Paypal claim's department. This was despite being able to show a chain of emails that supported my claim.

Eventually the money was credited back, but not before leaving an extremely bad taste in my mouth.

Have you any evidence of receipt of the phone? did you text / call the person to agree a time/place to meet? Did you get a license plate of the car? I wouldn't waste time going to the Gardai.

newme2006

DPdrummer wrote: »

This is something I will be checking with my bank tomorrow morning

Remove your bank account from your Paypal account - Paypal will leave your account in credit - this is really only a temporary step to "freeze" your account, clearly you won't be able to use your Paypal account while you have this disputed amount on your account.

The best thing is to get it cleared up as soon as possible jumping through the hoops Paypal ask you to.

Sono

if it were me I would monitor their activity on adverts and see if they arrange any further purchases, maybe you could surprise them when they arrive to claim their next victim ��

DPdrummer

newme2006 wrote: »

A similar thing happened me a few years back except it was via ebay and the buyer was in Germany. I sold a radio for a car which cost €600 - paid €90 to get it delivered to the buyer, fully tracked and insured and he contacted me shortly after to say that it didn't work or something.

He immediately logged a claim with Paypal who made him provide proof that he posted it back to me, however, what I received was an old used radio - needless to say, I was livid!

Paypal, of course, always side with the buyer so you'll need to jump through hoops to prove your side of the claim - They took the money back from account as soon as he added a tracking number for the package, this made it even more painful! - in the end, I had to go to the Garda station and make a statement, which I then had to forward to the Paypal claim's department. This was despite being able to show a chain of emails that supported my claim.

Eventually the money was credited back, but not before leaving an extremely bad taste in my mouth.

Have you any evidence of receipt of the phone? did you text / call the person to agree a time/place to meet? Did you get a license plate of the car? I wouldn't waste time going to the Gardai.

I have numerous screenshots of conversation between myself and buyer leading right up to the point we met. Didn't get a look at a car but I have found this person on Facebook, this is how I know it was not his son but himself that I met.

A Dub in Glasgo

Common scam caught you out there... never ever accept paypal payment for anything that involves handing over an item to someone. Paypal require proof of delivery if someone claims against you. You cannot provide proof of delivery therefore paypal give the buyer back their money and come after the seller for that. Again, never accept paypal for these types of sales

alwald

If you accept PayPal then you need to send the item by post and have a tracking number, its the only way you prove that you delivered the goods. If this buyer is a fraudster then PayPal are obliged to investigate your claim seriously, call them and explain what happened, if they insist that you should refund the money then let them know that you intend to call the guards and report fraud/theft, maybe you won't have to refund the 500 quid if you send them a formal complaint signed by the gards. Good luck.

ButtersSuki

Oh God.....

Had a similar experience once with a UK buyer on ebay for a pair of sneakers I sold. Guy claimed he never got them despite the fact they were tracked.

Sold to a guy in Liverpool. I posted from Dublin. They didn't recognise my tracking as Royal Mail. I tried explaining I live in Ireland and we don't have Royal Mail but it was a real case of "computer says no" from ebayUK. They were idiots. Refunded him. I was livid and down €200, and the sneakers.

Found him on facebook a few days later...wearing them. Emailed ebay with pics. They contacted him. He said he bought them elsewhere (yeah right) - appeal rejected, original verdict upheld.

Really turned me off ebay and paypal tbh.


Hope you get a better resolution.

twowheelsonly

nhunter100 wrote: »

Not sure about the rest of your post but not a hope of you getting the CCTV footage.

nhunter100 wrote: »

Data protection laws.

The gardai can request to look at the footage if they're investigating a crime.

newme2006 wrote: »

I wouldn't waste time going to the Gardai.

Why not ? Terrible advice.

Try telling PayPal that you didn't report the crime to the Gardai and see how far you get.
Chances are that it's not this fellas first offence and I'm sure the Gardai would love to have a chat with him. If he's known to Gardai it will make his case all the stronger.

Sleeper12

Can you report the phone stolen and get it totally blocked / blacklisted?

alwald

ButtersSuki wrote:

Found him on facebook a few days later...wearing them. Emailed ebay with pics. They contacted him. He said he bought them elsewhere (yeah right) - appeal rejected, original verdict upheld.

Did they believe him without asking for a proof of purchase? This is why I never sell anything online, cash in hands plz.

prinzeugen

Op, Phone the Garda now. Tell them everything you have told us. Take screen shots. Etc.

Get a crime reference number (pulse) and send that to PayPal..

DPdrummer

I think tomorrow morning my best option is to check with the bank and see if its possible to block paypal from withdrawing any funds from my account. Afterwards I will try calling the Gardai and reporting it. Then I will give Paypal a call and see what they can advise me to do.

MiskyBoyy

Same happened me but luckily the item was only about €50, I was on holidays in Bulgaria when the dispute was opened so it was the last thing I was worrying about. I just ended up never using that paypal account again, set up a new one except I can't link my bank account as it's still linked to an old paypal account so I have to withdraw funds to a family members account instead.

prinzeugen

DPdrummer wrote: »

I think tomorrow morning my best option is to check with the bank and see if its possible to block paypal from withdrawing any funds from my account. Afterwards I will try calling the Gardai and reporting it. Then I will give Paypal a call and see what they can advise me to do.

Go the Garda.. Paypal won't care but if you report it to the Garda they should pay more attention to it..

Curb Your Enthusiasm

PayPal can't withdraw any cash from your bank account. That's not how it works. Abandon the account. PayPal suck with this stuff.

nhunter100

twowheelsonly wrote:

The gardai can request to look at the footage if they're investigating a crime.

Gardai can OP can't.

Digital Society

Paypal have no right to just go in and take 600 from your account. Make sure you clarify this with the bank first thing in the morning.

Then proceed to the Gardai and ask them to request CCTV footage from Spar, report the theft etc..

Also for the love of god dont ever even visit the paypal site again. They make millions in interest from locking peoples accounts and making you ring 5 euro a minute helplines.

ButtersSuki

alwald wrote: »

Did they believe him without asking for a proof of purchase? This is why I never sell anything online, cash in hands plz.

Nope. Just took his word!

ohnonotgmail

Sleeper12 wrote: »

Can you report the phone stolen and get it totally blocked / blacklisted?

Just bumping this in case the OP missed last night. it wont get you your money back but at least the thief wont benefit.

DPdrummer

ohnonotgmail wrote: »

Just bumping this in case the OP missed last night. it wont get you your money back but at least the thief wont benefit.

It might be an option.

Funny enough I received a message from the buyer late last night.
Here's what he had to say,

"I abuslty appoligese for this as i stated in my messages its my friends account Im willing to pay you cash for this delay. Also you left necataive feedback without hearing back from me"

He told me nothing about using a friends Paypal so I don't know where that came from. I replied this morning basically just saying that he should go and make his 'friend' cancel the dispute before I have to take matters further.

Hasn't been back online yet

Greentree_uk

I stopped using paypal because their dispute system was rubbish. many years ago I agreed to refund a customer money over a dispute due to a misdelivery. as soon as the dispute opened they froze the money, meaning neither the end user nor I could don anything, I advised paypal to refund, they took ages, despite this communication to paypal they still barred my account. never again would i deal with them

locustfurnace

Is his address not on his paypal account? A knock on his door some night

firestarter51

ButtersSuki wrote: »

Oh God.....

Had a similar experience once with a UK buyer on ebay for a pair of sneakers I sold. Guy claimed he never got them despite the fact they were tracked.

Sold to a guy in Liverpool. I posted from Dublin. They didn't recognise my tracking as Royal Mail. I tried explaining I live in Ireland and we don't have Royal Mail but it was a real case of "computer says no" from ebayUK. They were idiots. Refunded him. I was livid and down €200, and the sneakers.

Found him on facebook a few days later...wearing them. Emailed ebay with pics. They contacted him. He said he bought them elsewhere (yeah right) - appeal rejected, original verdict upheld.

Really turned me off ebay and paypal tbh.


Hope you get a better resolution.

if you had anpost tracking number you could provide proof of delivery, and anpost tracking number also works on the royal mail site so not sure what you did wrong here
im sending stuff to the uk all the time and use my tracking number with the royal mail site and it is spot on

Sono

What's the latest OP?

DPdrummer

Sono wrote: »

What's the latest OP?

Ok, I've been into my closest Garda station (Drogheda), they've taken details of what happened etc. but I have been told to go to Ashbourne station, as it is the station that is in charge of my area, to give a full statement.

I've been onto PayPal who were extremely unhelpful. Basically just said there was nothing they could do because there was no proof of delivery.

Have had my bank card cancelled and replaced and am going in to my AIB branch to change bank account details so nothing can be taken.

However I am reading more and more about PayPal sending out debt collectors to collect the debt? Has anyone experienced this?

Curb Your Enthusiasm

firestarter51 wrote: »

They will collect their money one way or another, it will also affect your credit rating.
Sadly you have fallen for one of the biggest scams using PayPal, it's a perfect system if used properly
Everything needs to be posted and registered so you have proof of delivery
Good luck with the guards but I doubt there is anything they can do to be honest

This. Gardai will do nothing unfortunately.

mickoneill31

Curb Your Enthusiasm wrote: »

PayPal can't withdraw any cash from your bank account. That's not how it works. Abandon the account. PayPal suck with this stuff.

This. I had a similar case years ago.

Sent expensive item abroad.
Buyer said it wasn't genuine.
Paypal asked for proof of postage.
Seller provided proof of posting something (but not delivery).
I never received it back.
Paypal refunded the buyer. My account at the time had €5 in it. Paypal refunded the guy €800 and then asked me to put the balance into the account.
I rang them and there was nothing they could do. I asked the guy if the call was being recorded. He said yes so I said "record this, I'm never going to pay this bill"
They sent a few more emails before they apparently gave up. A year later I got calls from a debt collector saying to call them urgently. I told them I didn't know what they were talking about. They tried about 3 times and then gave up.
This has not affected my credit rating (that I know of). I've just applied for a remortgage and got approved. They did a credit check.
Moral of the story. I don't use Paypal anymore.

ohnonotgmail

DPdrummer wrote: »

Ok, I've been into my closest Garda station (Drogheda), they've taken details of what happened etc. but I have been told to go to Ashbourne station, as it is the station that is in charge of my area, to give a full statement.

I've been onto PayPal who were extremely unhelpful. Basically just said there was nothing they could do because there was no proof of delivery.

Have had my bank card cancelled and replaced and am going in to my AIB branch to change bank account details so nothing can be taken.

However I am reading more and more about PayPal sending out debt collectors to collect the debt? Has anyone experienced this?

have you had the phone blacklisted yet?

MiskyBoyy

Speaking of blacklisting phones and this kind of selling. There's plenty of people who get brand new big name phones the 600-700 type, sell them on adverts/donedeal then report them stolen a month later so they get another new phone from insurance to keep or sell again whilst the one you were sold gets blacklisted. Just be careful out there.

DPdrummer

ohnonotgmail wrote: »

have you had the phone blacklisted yet?

Unfortunately I don't think its something I can do as I bought the phone on Adverts not from a store.

ohnonotgmail

DPdrummer wrote: »

Unfortunately I don't think its something I can do as I bought the phone on Adverts not from a store.

why would that make a difference?

DPdrummer

ohnonotgmail wrote: »

why would that make a difference?

I was under the impression it had to be reported to the network carrier it was purchased from?

magentis

Im fairly certain you can have a phone blacklisted regardless of where it was purchased,if the scammer doesn't cancel the paypal case i would do just that.

ohnonotgmail

DPdrummer wrote: »

I was under the impression it had to be reported to the network carrier it was purchased from?

It needs to be reported to the carrier that it was used on. There is now a single blacklist for IMEI numbers. Once you report it to one carrier it will be blacklisted on all of them.

ED E

You have to prove ownership, Im not sure using that IMEI with your sim is sufficient.

JackHeuston

Yeah you can try report the phone as stolen to your own provider, especially if you used that phone with a SIM of theirs. Blacklisting the phone with a provider will make that effective with all the others, too.

magentis

Did you report it to adverts?

I would also be showing paypal the positive feedback he left you.

ohnonotgmail

magentis wrote: »

Did you report it to adverts?

I would also be showing paypal the positive feedback he left you.

i think this is dead as far as paypal are concerned. proof of delivery is the only thing they care about.

DPdrummer

magentis wrote: »

Did you report it to adverts?

I would also be showing paypal the positive feedback he left you.

I reported him to Adverts immediately.

I took a screenshot of the feedback he left and sent that as evidence along with all the other messages he had sent.

I actually received an email from Paypal saying they closed the case in my favour. A few hours later I got another saying "After careful consideration we have had to refund the buyer the full amount."

He actually had the cheek to send me a request for €5,000 this morning through PayPal.

the_syco

firestarter51 wrote: »

They will collect their money one way or another, it will also affect your credit rating.

Paypal are not on http://www.icb.ie/membership.php so I don't see how they can affect your credit rating in Ireland.

firestarter51 wrote: »

It's a lot of hassle having a collection agency ringing and sending letters and incurring more fees
Every letter and calls costs money
Better off to pay it and lesson learned imo

It'll cost the debt collector money to annoy you, but they have no power, unless they bring you to court, which again will cost them money.