Phoenix Park tragedy

SnakePlissken

http://www.independent.ie/irish-news/courts/man-drank-litre-of-vodka-and-took-cocaine-before-knocking-down-and-killing-toddler-in-phoenix-park-34640443.html

Absolutely heartbreaking story here about the death of a two year old innocently enjoying the Pheonix Park with her family. As a father I can but imagine the absolute horror her mother witnessed on that day. I do hope she and her partner have all the support and love they need to have some semblance of joy return to their lives.

What I find truly appaling however is the sentence the absolute scum received for taking this child's life... five years, is that all the value our justice system sees in the life of a child?

It's been said many times before that our judges are soft-touches, or perhaps their hands are simply tied by the limits of what the law affords them, but really, the moaning and the indignation has not gotten us anywhere. So I ask, how can we reform our justice system so that the punishment better fits the crime? We've already witnessed great efforts in the decommisioning of Irish Water, what do we need to do, and who do we need to confront about our ineffective justice system?

I for one believe that this stain on society, Ciaran Lane, should not enjoy freedom for a minimum of 15-20 years. What he did was not premeditated but it was most certainly highly avoidable had he not behaved in such a despicable manner.

smash

5 years... 5 fcuking years...

Rattser

Vodka, cocaine, handbrake turns, doughnuts, driving without insurance, leaving the scene of an accident and previous convictions - five years? I'd like to think that a two year old child's life is worth more than that.

anto9

5 years of food and board and security paid by the Taxpayer ? ( it costs something in the order of E1000 a week per prisoner ) .Better an eye for an eye and execute him .

Carlos Orange

“My hands are tied by precedent and a higher sense of justice in that only in very exceptional cases should a maximum sentence be imposed. This case is not far from that position as it happens,”

Doesn't sound like his hands are tied so much as the judge doesn't consider drinking a litre of vodka and taking cocaine and speeding and killing a baby is "very exceptional".

The_Valeyard

Rattser wrote: »

Vodka, cocaine, handbrake turns, doughnuts, driving without insurance, leaving the scene of an accident and previous convictions - five years? I'd like to think that a two year old child's life is worth more than that.

I'd like to think anyone's life is worth more than that.

Shocking and horrific event, shockingly short sentence.

Rattser

I know what I done, I want to apologise. I know i’m guilty, I have to live with it. I wanted to go to college, I’m sorry for what I did. I ****ed up and my son has to live with what I did, my mother has to listen to people saying horrible things about me.

http://www.thejournal.ie/phoenix-park-hit-and-run-sentencing-today-2721370-Apr2016/

His apology reads like he's sorry that he's ****ed up. Not that he's truly really sorry for what he did. Anyway, my heart goes out to the parents of the child. Heartbreaking case.

lawlolawl

This guy shouldn't see the outside of a prison cell for the rest of his life.

Make an example of him. I don't care what any pants-wetting liberals say, this "person" is absolutely irredeemable garbage (priors) and should just be kept away from normal society.

But of course, this is Ireland, we let people rack up multiple convictions until they kill someone and then we put them away for a laughable amount of time because boo-****ing-hoo the perpetrator is the real victim because he had a hard life and his mam didn't love him and someone looked at him funny once and excuses, excuses, excuses

Build. More. Prisons.

The flying mouse

Vanessa's father and friends were in court but the court heard her mother, Kasia, did not feel able to attend the hearing.

In a victim impact statement, she said their lives had been centred around their daughter, who was a sociable, friendly, happy and active child.

She said she saw Vanessa being hit by the car.

In one moment they were happy, playing and enjoying themselves in the park, she said. In the next, she heard loud music, a loud engine and everything happened so quickly.

She said she could not do anything but watch as her baby was taken away from her.

Every day was a nightmare and even to breath was difficult, she said.

She added that their hearts would always be broken as a part of both of them died with Vanessa.

She said she hoped that Vanessa's death would be a strong message to everyone to never drink or take drugs when driving.

After his son was led away to begin his sentence, Lane's father told Vanessa's family that he wanted to apologise to them.

Ken.

With remission and good behaviour he could be out in 3 years. I really hope the dpp appeal the sentence.

Boulevardier

On another point, I cannot see why cars should be so un-restricted in the park. Why isn't there a minibus service which can take people around the park and offer an alternative?

B.A._Baracus

Rattser wrote: »

http://www.thejournal.ie/phoenix-park-hit-and-run-sentencing-today-2721370-Apr2016/

His apology reads like he's sorry that he's ****ed up. Not that he's truly really sorry for what he did. Anyway, my heart goes out to the parents of the child. Heartbreaking case.

Good point.
No mention of sorry to the girls family, or sorry that her life was cut short.
It really comes off as "sorry" for his side of things. He's sorry it happened because he cant go to college now. He's sorry for any stress he'll cause his family.

seamus

If I got drunk and went to a public park and started waving a gun around, accidentally killing someone, you can be pretty sure I'd be inside for a lot longer than 5 years.

As a society we need to take vehicles more seriously, and liken their misuse to firing guns in public.

You're driving a tonne of steel within inches of people. If you can't be trusted to take that responsibility seriously, there should be no second chances. We're too slow to impose long bans and jail sentences for this stuff.

Slydice

I pass the spot in the phoenix park on my way to work. They've put flowers and teddies and lit candles every day I can remember. Very sad

Rosie Rant

The poor baby . That sentence is disgusting and an insult to the family.

El_Duderino 09

SnakePlissken wrote:

I for one believe that this stain on society, Ciaran Lane, should not enjoy freedom for a minimum of 15-20 years. What he did was not premeditated but it was most certainly highly avoidable had he not behaved in such a despicable manner.

How did you calculate that sentence? Bases on what? Should it be 15 or 20?

In honesty, you picked a figure out of the air and think it's better than using precedent and I can't think why.

Rattser wrote:

His apology reads like he's sorry that he's ****ed up. Not that he's truly really sorry for what he did. Anyway, my heart goes out to the parents of the child. Heartbreaking case.

What would it look like if he was truly sorry for what he did as opposed to being sorry that he F'ed up?

clairek6

All I can think of is that ridiculous sentence for the main importing garlic a few years ago, pretty sure it was longer than this sentence?!

lawlolawl

El_Duderino 09 wrote: »

How did you calculate that sentence? Bases on what? Should it be 15 or 20?

In honesty, you picked a figure out of the air and think it's better than using precedent and I can't think why.



What would it look like if he was truly sorry for what he did as opposed to being sorry that he F'ed up?

You should be ashamed of yourself for even attempting to defend this waste of space. Being "sorry " for killing a child by being a complete **** up at life is no defense for anything.

The ideal sentence would be that the victims family get 30 minutes alone with him cuffed with no repercussions.

Cathy.C

Considering some of things which get harsher sentences, it makes it a joke. If he was sober, insured and did this you'd expect a sentence not far off it for speeding and causing a child's death but with previous, no insurance, reckless driving and the fact that he had previous? Crazily lenient sentence on that basis.

dubrov

El_Duderino 09 wrote:

What would it look like if he was truly sorry for what he did as opposed to being sorry that he F'ed up?

I would expect him to express remorse for the pain and suffering that he had caused to that poor girl's family. Instead his statement is all about how it has affected his life

Uriel.

Whatever about the behaviour of the driver, having read the extracts from the VIS I just can't begin to imagine what the mother went through having to fave what she had to face that day. I really really don't know how you could ever get over holding your dying two year old child in those (or any) circumstances. I don't think you could ever be "right" after that. Heartbreaking.

I can never understand why "coming from a good family" is some sort of mitigating circumstance when it comes to sentencing. He should have got the maximum sentence, not least because of his prior history for similar behaviour

Uriel.

dubrov wrote: »

I would expect him to express remorse for the pain and suffering that he had caused to that poor girl's family. Instead his statement is all about how it has affected his life

I think that statement attributed to him came from the record of his garda interviews rather than during court. I think anyway?

SnakePlissken

El_Duderino 09 wrote: »

In honesty, you picked a figure out of the air and think it's better than using precedent and I can't think why.

Ehh.. Maybe because I believe five years is a travesty for the loss he has conflicted, however I don't believe he should be locked away until his end of days as even though it was despicable, it was not a premeditated murder to which I believe warrants the absolute loss of freedom. As for precedent, I do believe the judge has just set a godawful one.

El_Duderino 09

lawlolawl wrote:

You should be ashamed of yourself for even attempting to defend this waste of space. Being "sorry " for killing a child by being a complete **** up at life is no defense for anything.

Who defended anything? I asked where the alternative sentences came from and why they think it would be better.

I can't imagine the combination of words that would show you the difference between being sorry he F'ed up and sorry he killed the child.

lawlolawl wrote:

The ideal sentence would be that the victims family get 30 minutes alone with him cuffed with no repercussions.

Ok. That's not a society i would want to be part of. Why would you think that's a good idea.

So the family murder the fella. Then does the fellas family get to murder them or does it end there?

Uriel.

clairek6 wrote: »

All I can think of is that ridiculous sentence for the main importing garlic a few years ago, pretty sure it was longer than this sentence?!

People really need to stop coming back to the garlic sentence. It was a justified sentence AND a significant crime. There are many non fatal crimes that, in a given set circumstances lead to greater sentences than a fatal crime.

ceadaoin.

Rattser wrote: »

http://www.thejournal.ie/phoenix-park-hit-and-run-sentencing-today-2721370-Apr2016/

His apology reads like he's sorry that he's ****ed up. Not that he's truly really sorry for what he did. Anyway, my heart goes out to the parents of the child. Heartbreaking case.

All I see in that apology is self pity, HIS chance of going to college is gone, HIS son has been affected,HIS parents have to put up with comments. Meanwhile the family of the poor little girl have been and are still going through hell. Sickening

Skylinehead

clairek6 wrote: »

All I can think of is that ridiculous sentence for the main importing garlic a few years ago, pretty sure it was longer than this sentence?!

Why oh why do we have to keep comparing sentences to garlic man? He got 2 years, he defrauded the state to the tune of 1.6 million euro, what do you think he should have got? A slap on the wrist?

rafatoni

I have a 20 month old son. It does not bare thinking about. Horrific case.

To think someone has another thread on AH that 5 euro extra for a steak makes them sad. Puts it in perspective.

lawlolawl

El_Duderino 09 wrote: »

So the family murder the fella. Then does the fellas family get to murder them or does it end there?

Nope. His family realize they produced an absolute garbage waste of space and forget about him ever existing now that he has been disposed of like the piece of refuse that he is.

Remember: priors for driving offenses, out of his mind on drink at the time, killed a child.

He has no place in society and should just cease to exist. Imagine the mother of that child walking down the street in 3 years time (that's all he'll serve) and seeing this utter piece of dog**** walking the other way.

That's fair, is it?

Ken.

rafatoni wrote: »

I have a 20 month old son. It does not bare thinking about. Horrific case.

My daughter is 17 and thankfully/hopefully neither of us has to ever go through what Katarzyna went through. That being said if someone did/had done that to my daughter I wouldn't be able to help myself from waiting outside the prison on the day of his release.

clairek6

Skylinehead wrote: »

Why oh why do we have to keep comparing sentences to garlic man? He got 2 years, he defrauded the state to the tune of 1.6 million euro, what do you think he should have got? A slap on the wrist?

He should have been made pay it all back not spend two years in prison costing the state more, when there are scum like this man free after a couple of years.

PTH2009

terrible tragedy. thoughts go out to the childs family

5 years not enough IMO.

Isolt

Poor baby girl
I remember when this happened and I was just horrified thinking of what the parents were going through.
Now I am even more horrified that in 5 years this scumbag will be free while these parents still have to face each day without their little baby. Sickening way for the judge to add insult to injury.

El_Duderino 09

dubrov wrote:

I would expect him to express remorse for the pain and suffering that he had caused to that poor girl's family. Instead his statement is all about how it has affected his life

True. If I wanted to express remorse to someone I would do it in a private letter. No need to apologise to the mother through a public media. How would that make anything better?

SnakePlissken wrote:

Ehh.. Maybe because I believe five years is a travesty for the loss he has conflicted, however I don't believe he should be locked away until his end of days as even though it was despicable, it was not a premeditated murder to which I believe warrants the absolute loss of freedom. As for precedent, I do think the judge has just set a godawful one.

Didn't the judge say he was bound by ptecedent in this case?

Do you have any idea how long 5 years is? The fact of having hurt the child would be enough for any normal person to reflect on what thyy had done. Teenagers are stupid and tend to take stupid risks. They don't really care as much about consequences the way fully grown adults do, so the deterrent effect would be minimal on other teenagers. Their brain changes as they grow older so there's no value to locking him up for 15- 20 years for that reason.

You could hope to rehabilitate him but that's not what prison is designed to do and as I said, people become more risk averse as they age. You could lock him up to protect society but that's dependant on knowing the likelihood of him doing something as dangerous, again.

I don't know what his sentence should be. But I know that picking figures out of the air and turning them into years in prison, is silly.

vicwatson

Almost all of these judges live in a bubble, this revolving door and concurrent sentencing has to stop, if we are serious about it they have to stop.

Heartbreaking stuff

Putin

Imo, 15 years in jail would still be too lenient for the c**t.

Deep Six

What an absolute ****, he should have got life.

PressRun

Very lenient, but sadly not surprising. It feels like every other day there's another awful example of the ongoing parody of justice we have in this country. It's getting harder and harder to shake the feeling that the justice system does very little for victims.

El_Duderino 09

lawlolawl wrote:

Nope. His family realize they produced an absolute garbage waste of space and forget about him ever existing now that he has been disposed of like the piece of refuse that he is.

Sure. That's not how families work though. The same bond that ties the parents to the child. The child's behaviour probably has less to do with it than you think. Almost no parent abandons their child no matter how they behave.

In reality your suggestion would lead to ever increasing ripples of murder, turning victims into murderers and murderers families into victims, and so on. Doesn't sound like a great solution.

lawlolawl wrote:

He has no place in society and should just cease to exist. Imagine the mother of that child walking down the street in 3 years time (that's all he'll serve) and seeing this utter piece of dog**** walking the other way.

Sure, but he won't cease to exist. If you're proposing capital punishment, then say so.

lawlolawl wrote:

That's fair, is it?

Nothing about losing a child could be fair. Inflicting murder on the perpetrator's family is not fair either.

Cortina_MK_IV

Isolt wrote: »

Poor baby girl
I remember when this happened and I was just horrified thinking of what the parents were going through.
Now I am even more horrified that in 5 years this scumbag will be free while these parents still have to face each day without their little baby. Sickening way for the judge to add insult to injury.

Out in 3, may have been trained with some skills/Open University course to enable him to get back into society. Head across the water and get a new job all possibly before he hits 29?

El_Duderino 09

PressRun wrote:

Very lenient, but sadly not surprising. It feels like every other day there's another awful example of the ongoing parody of justice we have in this country. It's getting harder and harder to shake the feeling that the justice system does very little for victims.

It's not designed to help victims. There are some systems designed to place the victim's wellbeing at the centre but you wouldn't like them.

Hint, they end up with much lighter sentences because the length of the sentence has no impact on the victim's wellbeing.

vicwatson

Brian Dobbo on Rte news referred to her as a "young girl", will ya feck off Dobbo, she was 22 months young, an infant, a baby FFS, feck off with your "young girl" tag.

Elemonator

The judiciary are a let down, even in the Gardai's minds. I think there is a supply and demand problem in the system though, the jails are full. I think its time we let out the people who didn't pay something on time and throw this lad in and throw away the key.

lawlolawl

Elemonator wrote: »

The judiciary are a let down, even in the Gardai's minds. I think there is a supply and demand problem in the system though, the jails are full. I think its time we let out the people who didn't pay something on time and throw this lad in and throw away the key.

Build more prisons. I'd take a 10% hike in tax to have more cages to lock up the animals that wander this country.

I deal with them every day. A small cell for a long time is all that they are fit for.

ShagNastii

I loathe beyond belief the fact that nine times out of ten with these cases you inevitably get the "he/she was off their heads on drink and drugs". It kills me even more that it clearly gets taken into account when sentencing these scumbags.

Honestly, what you do is what you do. There should be no cop outs. It is a complete insult to the victims. We have all had one too many drinks in our day. Funny thing is I've never felt the need to murder somebody, rape somebody, speed around in my car like an absolute buffoon.

Elemonator

lawlolawl wrote: »

Build more prisons. I'd take a 10% hike in tax to have more cages to lock up the animals that wander this country.

I deal with them every day. A small cell for a long time is all that they are fit for.

110% agree with you. I wouldn't say 10pc tax increase but I would pay a levy.

SEPT 23 1989

Judges hands are tied if he hands down a huge sentence it will be appealed and overturned

WesternZulu

No matter how stupid you are as a teenage you still know that driving around in a car when you're full of vodka and coke is stupid and putting peoples life in danger!!

suicide_circus

I feel physically sick after reading that article.

Worthless scobie bastard.

5 years seems pretty much in line with the sentencing in this area.

10 years ago, it'd probably have been a suspended sentence.

Equating it with murder etc. is nonsense.

KERSPLAT!

[Deleted User] wrote: »

5 years seems pretty much in line with the sentencing in this area.

10 years ago, it'd probably have been a suspended sentence.

Equating it with murder etc. is nonsense.

Do you agree with the sentencing?