How long does a bottle of open white wine last for cooking?

murphyebass · 20-04-2016 03:40PM

Swanner wrote: »

The internet is littered with examples of "experts" who can't tell the difference...

http://www.forbes.com/sites/katiebell/2012/07/09/is-there-really-a-taste-difference-between-cheap-and-expensive-wines/#173b8b707581

I've linked that article because I believe it highlights the problems associated with claiming to be an "expert" on wines...

There are just so many variables that will change the experience for the drinker.

Nothing to do with being an "expert" but a bog standard bottle of €10 wine tastes massively different to a €50 bottle.

Like a cheap whiskey vs an expensive one.

Similarly with cheap coffee or cheese or whatever other food substance you chose.

Cheap counterpart rarely taste the same. Sure if they did we'd all buy them. The reason we spend that bit more for a bottle of wine or that nice block of cheese is because they do taste different/better/whatever.

20-04-2016 03:50PM

murphyebass wrote: »

Nothing to do with being an "expert" but a bog standard bottle of €10 wine tastes massively different to a €50 bottle.

Like a cheap whiskey vs an expensive one.

Similarly with cheap coffee or cheese or whatever other food substance you chose.

Cheap counterpart rarely taste the same. Sure if they did we'd all buy them. The reason we spend that bit more for a bottle of wine or that nice block of cheese is because they do taste different/better/whatever.

Are you reading any of the articles?

Everyone THINKS they can taste the difference. When you put them in a blind tasting situation, suddenly they can't. Wine in particular is notorious in this area. I've been in a blind test where myself and another person couldn't agree on the COLOUR of the wine.

rubadub · 20-04-2016 03:57PM

murphyebass wrote: »

It's like people buying really cheap wine to cook with.

Why would you cook with a poor/cheap quality product.

They might be poor themselves, or might not be able to tell the difference, or do not think the increase in quality warrants the higher price. Maybe they decide to spend €x on the meal and bought a better quality cut of meat or dessert which they feel is better value.

If I can barely taste the difference, I will not pay it, unless its small. I can tell cheap beer from decent beer, at home I drink cheaper beers, I do not think what I consider a small quality/taste difference is worth paying 2.5 times the price for it, or €1.50 extra. While in a pub the difference in price between what I consider "quality A" and "quality B" maybe only 10-30cent, so I do pay the difference, at €5 vs €5.30 the % difference is must less too. I do drink a lot so that must be factored in too.

murphyebass wrote: »

Nothing to do with being an "expert" but a bog standard bottle of €10 wine tastes massively different to a €50 bottle.

Like a cheap whiskey vs an expensive one.

Vodka is a standout one, sugars can be cheaper to brew from and many distillers consider sugar based brews to be superior. But there is a tradition of making it with grains which carries on.

Blind tastes can be very advisable, for some products more than others.

Ian Wisniewski, one of Britain's leading spirits experts, and Tom Innes, the former editor of bar and lifestyle magazine, Theme

VODKA TEST
After tasting the following vodkas blind with spirits experts Ian Wisniewski and Tom Innes, here are the winners and the losers. All the vodkas are widely available.
1st: Glen's (£8.69)
2nd: Russian Standard (£13.29)
3rd: Absolut (£14.99)
4th: Wyborowa (£15.99)
5th: Finlandia (£14.19)
Joint 6th: Smirnoff Red (£12.19);
Stolichnaya (£14.99);
Belvedere (£30)
9th: Grey Goose (£30.79)
10th: Smirnoff Black (£15.99)

Glen's is sugar based.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/foodanddrink/wine/5770943/10-vodkas-put-to-the-test.html

If you do blind tastes you might save a fortune, some seem scared to do them, perhaps worried they might reveal they have "cheap taste", even though the more expensive ingredients might just be used out of tradition.

pwurple · 20-04-2016 04:06PM

Swanner wrote: »

Meanwhile, Paddy's busy feeling very important in himself, tasting the wine in the restaurant from the screw cap bottle, in front of his suitably impressed guests, with no idea why he's doing it other then he gets to exclaim loudly how its a lovely buttery number with chewy tannins and a delicate aroma blah blah blah.... No-one is ever impressed...

This drives me nuts, that people don't know what that tasting thing is about.

It's ONLY purpose is to agree to purchase the wine. There is no other function. It's not to compliment the wine, or to discuss it, or blah blah blah. It's to confirm that it is the bottle that you ordered (hence them showing you the label before opening it), and then you taste (or not) to check it's not gone bad etc.

Financial transaction only.

The Bishop Basher · 20-04-2016 04:31PM

It has everything to do with claiming to be an expert.

Joe Punter doesn't claim to know the difference between a €10 and a €50 bottle. He just knows what he likes the taste of, regardless of the price tag, and he drinks it.

You know the difference. You're obviously confident in your knowledge of the subject and fair play, there's nothing wrong with that.

All i'm saying is that professionals who are paid to know the difference very often get it spectacularly wrong and the reality as i see it is that they never actually had a chance of knowing because there are just too many variables involved.

They may get the technical aspects correct like variety, region or a vintage but taste is just personal perception at the end of the day and you can't be an expert on other people's perceptions.

I also think it's dangerous to get too hung up on a price tag as i've tasted some local wines in France that were cheap as chips but of vastly superior quality (imho) to anything i've bought here for five times the price. Some were that good i brought vats of it home and bottled them

the beer revolu · 20-04-2016 05:48PM

I put many things in stews and sauces that I would sip and taste but wouldn't dream of drinking a glass of.
I wouldn't drink a glass of soy sauce but I often use as much as a glass of it in certain dishes (usually less than that).
I always taste wine before adding it to food.
If it's not vinegar and has no nasty off flavours, then in it goes. I often have leftover red wine but as we don't drink much white wine, I buy cheap white for cooking but I will always taste it before adding even if just opened. A really acidic wine will be really acidic in a dish but I challenge anyone to spot a wine in a dish that has lost some of its aroma or is a bit oxidised!

I cook with wine and beer a lot. Often beers that I don't like to drink can make amazing sauces and gravies - even when sitting with a Cork in the bottle for weeks or months.

I think people learn and apply certain rules regarding cooking with wine and apply them blindly. In my extensive, practical experience I find these rules to be complete horsepooh but, obviously, if you pour vinegar or wine with a nasty infection into a dish, it will ruin it.

Always taste first.

KenjiOdo · 20-04-2016 06:21PM

pretty sure corked will last longer than screw cap.. as it allows for the wine to "breathe" saying that probably a week tops before it starts becoming white wine vinegar!

Dial Hard · 21-04-2016 09:57AM

KenjiOdo wrote: »

pretty sure corked will last longer than screw cap.. as it allows for the wine to "breathe"

Actually I'm pretty sure that keeping as much air as possible out of the wine will make it last longer. The reason wine is stored on its side is to keep the ends of the corks wet so that they don't contract and allow air into the bottle.

KenjiOdo wrote: »

saying that probably a week tops before it starts becoming white wine vinegar!

Nope, I've cooked with wine older than this and it's been absolutely fine.

Tom Dunne · 21-04-2016 10:18AM

A few years ago (Celtic Tiger era), I had a bottle of wine for an anniversary that was around 100 Euro.

A non-drinker friend of mine, utterly aghast at the cost of the wine asked to taste it. She loved it. She sampled wine here and there over the years and as a non-drinker, she could tell the difference. However, that was her taste. I'm sure if my father (who drinks Santa Rita Merlot, God help him) tried the 100 Euro bottle, it wouldn't be to his taste.

Notwithstanding the above, I don't think that translates into wine for cooking. I'd throw a cheap Australian Shiraz onto a roast beef while cooking, I certainly wouldn't do the same with a St. Emillion Grand Cru (unless you wanted to see a grown man cry). If I actually did throw the St. Emillion onto it, would I really notice the difference? I doubt it.

Would I notice if either bottle had been open a day, a week or a month? I seriously doubt it.

But again, that's just my wholly subjective opinion.

catho_monster · 21-04-2016 10:27AM

Tom Dunne wrote: »

Notwithstanding the above, I don't think that translates into wine for cooking. I'd throw a cheap Australian Shiraz onto a roast beef while cooking, I certainly wouldn't do the same with a St. Emillion Grand Cru (unless you wanted to see a grown man cry). If I actually did throw the St. Emillion onto it, would I really notice the difference? I doubt it.

I would actually cry if anyone in my household put st emillion in cooking. I save the good wine for drinking and the wine we've been gifted (nearly always not great wine) for cooking. If there's some left over, I stick it in a yogurt container in the freezer (wrapped in a freezer bag). When it's time to deglaze a pan, a hack a bit out with a fork and I'm good to go. It doesn't freeze solid so it works great...

pwurple · 21-04-2016 10:36AM

Sherry is my option for this. Sherry lasts absolutely yonks, being fortified. And I love the deeper flavours too.

Melendez · 21-04-2016 12:03PM

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the beer revolu · 21-04-2016 01:11PM

Melendez wrote: »

Extra dry vermouth should also work as a substitute for white wine and will keep well for a long period. As with sherry, the sauce/dish will be a slightly different flavour but it should still work where you are supposed to add a glass or two of white wine to the dish. I can't say I've ever tried it where the recipe called for a full bottle of wine.

On recommendation from someone here II tried Lidl dry vermouth as a sub for white wine. Never again, it was foul.

Sapphire · 21-04-2016 02:18PM

the beer revolu wrote: »

On recommendation from someone here II tried Lidl dry vermouth as a sub for white wine. Never again, it was foul.

I did that too with the same outcome. I'm hoping it was just the particular recipe. I'd say it would even go untouched at a house party.

the beer revolu · 21-04-2016 02:58PM

Sapphire wrote: »

I did that too with the same outcome. I'm hoping it was just the particular recipe. I'd say it would even go untouched at a house party.

I think it went down the drain which is a rare thing for me with booze. If I won't drink it, I'll cook with it or find someone who will drink it.
This stuff beat me.

Sapphire · 21-04-2016 03:00PM

the beer revolu wrote: »

I think it went down the drain which is a rare thing for me with booze. If I won't drink it, I'll cook with it or find someone who will drink it.
This stuff beat me.

I may have to toss it all right.

Melendez · 21-04-2016 03:11PM

This post has been deleted.

L1011 · 23-04-2016 05:36PM

the beer revolu wrote: »

On recommendation from someone here II tried Lidl dry vermouth as a sub for white wine. Never again, it was foul.

Lidl's vermouth is without a doubt the worst alcoholic product they sell. And I say this with Castelgy gin, their 40% vodka, blue curacao, creme de cassis and bourbon from Lidl in the cocktail cabinet currently - they do sell usable stuff normally.

I also use Aldi's 8 year old scotch as my normal quick drinking or cocktail scotch - in a cocktail I can't tell whether it or Johnnie Walker Black was used.

freshpopcorn · 24-04-2016 11:59PM

Thanks for the advice. I've decided that my best option would be just to buy the small little bottles of white wine because it's something I'd rarely be using.