changing cassette from 11-28t to 11-32t

jon1981

Hi,

I have an ultegra setup with 50-34 Front and 11-28t on the rear. I was doing some hills over the weekend up around Sally Gap and Luggala and was really struggling without my old granny gear ...

My cadence was really low, at at guess I'd say 40-50 and I was in the lowest gear going up over Lough Tay. I've noticed my knee is alittle sore since and thinking it might be worthwhile getting a bigger cassette to take the load of the knees. It's been the first time this year that i've done any serious climbing so maybe it's just lack of conditioning. I've had a proper bike fit.

Has anyone made this move in cassette sizes? I'm wondering if there's enough range in derailleur? Also am I looking at a chain replacement? The bike has only 300km on it so if possible I'd like to keep the chain.

J

Wishbone Ash

If you currently have a medium cage you'll get a 30 on it but not a 32. Either way you'll need a new chain as even a 30 will require more length.

Do you really need a 32? - there's a bit difference between a 28 and a 30.

jon1981

jon1981 wrote: »

Hi,

I have an ultegra setup with 50-34 Front and 11-28t on the rear. I was doing some hills over the weekend up around Sally Gap and Luggala and was really struggling without my old granny gear ...

My cadence was really low, at at guess I'd say 40-50 and I was in the lowest gear going up over Lough Tay. I've noticed my knee is alittle sore since and thinking it might be worthwhile getting a bigger cassette to take the load of the knees. It's been the first time this year that i've done any serious climbing so maybe it's just lack of conditioning. I've had a proper bike fit.

Has anyone made this move in cassette sizes? I'm wondering if there's enough range in derailleur? Also am I looking at a chain replacement? The bike has only 300km on it so if possible I'd like to keep the chain.

J

Lough Tay is pretty steep in places. You are only going to maintain a quick cadence if you are really light, pretty strong or have a big cog on the back.

Two of those can be addressed without spending any money

jon1981

Wishbone Ash wrote: »

If you currently have a medium cage you'll get a 30 on it but not a 32. Either way you'll need a new chain as even a 30 will require more length.

Do you really need a 32? - there's a bit difference between a 28 and a 30.

I'm not sure, I'm mulling over it in my mind. I was struggling to keep the legs turning at one point when I hit a 18-20% gradient for about 50 metres. I think Ultegra only do a 32 for 11 speed cassettes.

jon1981

ronoc wrote: »

Lough Tay is pretty steep in places. You are only going to maintain a quick cadence if you are really light, pretty strong or have a big cog on the back.

Two of those can be addressed without spending any money

Yep, I know it's leg conditioning I need. (not willing to go lighter than I currently am). Perhaps I'll just grin and bear it until I improve! I will need to build up the legs off the bike, the knee can't take much more of that.

Luxman

Just my opinion mind but I wouldn't change hardware for these situations. If you think conditioning is a factor then train on Lesser gradients until you feel stronger. For a 50m stretch I would be getting out of the saddle and using weight /gravity to get me over that bit

jon1981

Luxman wrote: »

Just my opinion mind but I wouldn't change hardware for these situations. If you think conditioning is a factor then train on Lesser gradients until you feel stronger. For a 50m stretch I would be getting out of the saddle and using weight /gravity to get me over that bit

lol believe me I was well out of the saddle. Perhaps I'll hold off, as you and other posters have said , more training is the solution. I just need some self discipline and not over do it. This was the segment - https://www.strava.com/segments/652460 ... finishes with a lovely 10% gradient :eek:

ford2600

Even with a 30 on back you'd be asking your rd to do a lot IF you want to have all gears available.

If your chain is long enough to run a 50-30 gear it'll be pretty sloppy to unusable in 34 with the smaller few cogs on rear.

I fitted a 12-30 for last weekend but haven't chain long enough for 50-30, in truth I never use 50-28 and 50-25 pretty rarely.

It might all go tits up on some draggy climb in the dark though when I've no idea what gear I'm in..

Wishbone Ash

jon1981 wrote: »

...This was the segment - https://www.strava.com/segments/652460 ... finishes with a lovely 10% gradient :eek:

That's a bit of a haul alright and probably not ideal for a first climb of the year. My best time is over 16.12 on it - must do it again soon as according to Strava, it's been 2 years.

jon1981

Wishbone Ash wrote: »

That's a bit of a haul alright and probably not ideal for a first climb of the year. My best time is over 16.12 on it - must do it again soon as according to Strava, it's been 2 years.

22 mins for me! Long way to go until I'm near 16 mins, was nice to get it up it all the same. Probably was a mad idea to attempt it as my first real climb in 7 months.

Crocked

You'd be surprised, a couple of hilly spins over the next few weeks and you'll knock minutes off your time.

Like others, given it was your first hill in 7 months, added to the fact that's a pretty brutal climb and you don't really need to be going to the hassle and expense of changing your gearing. If you do you'll probably find after another one or two hilly spins that you aren't using the extra gears any more as your conditioning and leg strength develop.

07Lapierre

jon1981 wrote: »

Hi,

I have an ultegra setup with 50-34 Front and 11-28t on the rear. I was doing some hills over the weekend up around Sally Gap and Luggala and was really struggling without my old granny gear ...

My cadence was really low, at at guess I'd say 40-50 and I was in the lowest gear going up over Lough Tay. I've noticed my knee is alittle sore since and thinking it might be worthwhile getting a bigger cassette to take the load of the knees. It's been the first time this year that i've done any serious climbing so maybe it's just lack of conditioning. I've had a proper bike fit.

Has anyone made this move in cassette sizes? I'm wondering if there's enough range in derailleur? Also am I looking at a chain replacement? The bike has only 300km on it so if possible I'd like to keep the chain.

J

A 34x28 = 1.214

The lowest gear on a triple is usually a 30x25 which is also =1.2

U sure the gears are the problem? We all have bad days every now and then.

jon1981

07Lapierre wrote: »

A 34x28 = 1.214

The lowest gear on a triple is usually a 30x25 which is also =1.2

U sure the gears are the problem? We all have bad days every now and then.

I need something to blame (other than myself)

jon1981

jon1981 wrote: »

22 mins for me! Long way to go until I'm near 16 mins, was nice to get it up it all the same. Probably was a mad idea to attempt it as my first real climb in 7 months.

My one and only time up that road from that direction was brutal. Had a few other climbs and 80km in my legs and it took me ~20 mins.

07Lapierre

jon1981 wrote: »

I need something to blame (other than myself)

There must have been a headwind that day

Crocked

Just to add, I looked back at my history of that climb. Last March it took me 26 mins, although I stopped just after the segment starts, but was still near 20 mins rolling and suffered the whole way up. Two months later I went back up it in 18 mins and by the summer I was down to 16 mins and able to enjoy it.

jon1981

ronoc wrote: »

My one and only time up that road from that direction was brutal. Had a few other climbs and 80km in my legs and it took me ~20 mins.

I can't claim to have 80km in my legs that point sadly! I came from Enniskerry so had climb from Tinnehinch past the sugar loaf, average 4% over 6km and then after Lough Tay I went on to Sally Gap and Feather beds. 60km in all.

NeedMoreGears

With a 32, it seems you'll need a medium cage. There seems to be some confusion in some Ultegra 10 speed specs I've seen. Both the medium and short cages max out at 30. That seems odd as it appears the 105 medium can take 32 as can the 11 speed Ultegra. The respective short cages max out at 30. If you go 32, you'll need a new chain.

Check the spec for what you have and you may find you'll get away with 30 if you don't cross chain

Generally I have found 30 to be plenty but when the "lashing-down-150-done-50-left-not-another-hill" feeling kicks in, I'd imagine a 32 could be my new BFF.

07Lapierre

Crocked wrote: »

Just to add, I looked back at my history of that climb. Last March it took me 26 mins, although I stopped just after the segment starts, but was still near 20 mins rolling and suffered the whole way up. Two months later I went back up it in 18 mins and by the summer I was down to 16 mins and able to enjoy it.

+1 at this time of year, hills are always tougher. In July/August you'll be fitter, the weather will be better, you'll probably be wearing less clothes too...Marginal gains etc.

jon1981

NeedMoreGears wrote: »

Generally I have found 30 to be plenty but when the "lashing-down-150-done-50-left-not-another-hill" feeling kicks in, I'd imagine a 32 could be my new BFF.

This is what I'm also thinking. I'm going to hold off on an upgrade (or is downgrade ) for now and see how my recovery and conditioning goes.

jon1981

07Lapierre wrote: »

There must have been a headwind that day

Oh yeah of course (with some hail) :cool:

smacl

I've 34/32 as my lowest gear on an 11 speed ultegra setup. While I'm a pretty lousy climber, I don't find the 32 much different from the 30 other than it prolongs the agony.

jon1981

smacl wrote: »

I've 34/32 as my lowest gear on an 11 speed ultegra setup. While I'm a pretty lousy climber, I don't find the 32 much different from the 30 other than it prolongs the agony.

Your knees might thank you for it though

dahat

Sorry to jump in on your thread but has anyone used a 52/36 with 12/28 (i think, 12)?

Currently have 50/34 but wondering would i gain much from the 52/36 or lose much climbing wise?

Wishbone Ash

dahat wrote: »

... would i gain much from the 52/36 or lose much climbing wise?

With the same cassette?

dahat

Wishbone Ash wrote: »

With the same cassette?

Yeah, as while i climb a bit I'm not sure id need a 30 gear.

Just trying to figure my ideal setup as i was working pretty hard on my standard 50/34 set up yesterday while others were popping along with larger cranks. (not totally sure of what I'm talking about but hopefully ya get me)

G1032

dahat wrote: »

Yeah, as while i climb a bit I'm not sure id need a 30 gear.

Just trying to figure my ideal setup as i was working pretty hard on my standard 50/34 set up yesterday while others were popping along with larger cranks. (not totally sure of what I'm talking about but hopefully ya get me)

Unless you're racing you don't really need the 52. You'd need to be doing some speed to spin out on the 50/12.
Your climbing then will become a bit more difficult when your lowest gear is 36/12 as opposed to 34/12

dahat

G1032 wrote: »

Unless you're racing you don't really need the 52. You'd need to be doing some speed to spin out on the 50/12.
Your climbing then will become a bit more difficult when your lowest gear is 36/12 as opposed to 34/12

Thank you. Explained well and as I wont be racing I'll stick with the 50/34 as it will be kinder on the kness as well.

Wishbone Ash

G1032 wrote: »

...You'd need to be doing some speed to spin out on the 50/12....

It can happen easily enough on long straight descents with good visibility and no braking required. (On the descent into Naul village, I spin out on a 50/11 and I'm not fast).

dahat wrote: »

Thank you. Explained well and as I wont be racing I'll stick with the 50/34 as it will be kinder on the kness as well.

Whenever you are replacing the chain/cassette, you could go for an 11 instead of a 12. It will give you a bit more of a top gear (4.5 v 4.2).

cython

G1032 wrote: »

Unless you're racing you don't really need the 52. You'd need to be doing some speed to spin out on the 50/12.
Your climbing then will become a bit more difficult when your lowest gear is 36/12 as opposed to 34/12

[pedant]lowest gears in the two scenarios would be 36/28 compared with 34/28. I only note this as the ratio difference between the two is a lot less (1.286 vs 1.214 - .072 difference) than between 36/12 and 34/12 (3 vs 2.833 - 0.167 difference)[/pedant]

Cee-Jay-Cee

It was your first real climb in 7 months and you made it to the top. You dont need bigger gears, as you cycle more your legs will get stronger and it'll be faster next time. I'm the same this time of year, legs just arent quite up to the bigger climbs but after 5 or 6 spins involving some lesser climbs, they'll improve and bigger hills wont seem as bad.

As an example, I went for a spin a few weeks ago which involves a 4km climb. the first section is quite steep with a 12/14% ramp and then it lessens to a steady 3 or 4% for approx 2km with 2 ramps at the summit which are approx 12-14% also. At this time of year, having not been up those climbs since last October, I was in the small ring the whole way and using the 28T for the ramps but at the end of October last year, I managed the whole climb in the big ring (albeit cross chaining at time) and out of the saddle just to see if i could do it. My PR is 11.59 @ 19.4km/h but this year my one attempt was a pityful 16.21 @ 14.2km/h. I know I'll get faster but it takes practice.

Just keep at it.

Unknown Soldier

Wishbone Ash wrote: »

If you currently have a medium cage you'll get a 30 on it but not a 32. Either way you'll need a new chain as even a 30 will require more length.

Do you really need a 32? - there's a bit difference between a 28 and a 30.

An Ultegra SS (Short cage) will take a 12-30(10 speed), even though 28 max is recommended, with minor B screw adjustment. Some forums discuss using a SRAM 32 by putting in the B screw backwards... dunno about that.

An Ultegra GS (Medium cage) is for a 32(11s). There is no 11 speed that ends in 30, unless SRAM do one!?

Note 11-32 (11s) is very "clunky" on the lowest three gears. The RD/chain/crank view isn't the prettiest of things either. not very neat tbh.

As for your chain... if you add a SRAM/KMC link you might get away with it. you would have to test it (carefully) using the big ring/32 combo though. As long as there is still a slight "S" in the chain going through the RD you are good to go.

Wishbone Ash

Unknown Soldier wrote: »

An Ultegra SS (Short cage) will take a 12-30(10 speed), even though 28 max is recommended..

My LBS claimed that the short cage on my Ridley wouldn't take anything more than a 28. I had asked them as I had to take it to the Alps a couple of years ago when my Fuji (which has a medium cage with a 30) let me down at the last minute. Managed fine on the 28 all the same.

(It's a 10 speed if that makes any difference)

Unknown Soldier

Wishbone Ash wrote: »

My LBS claimed that the short cage on my Ridley wouldn't take anything more than a 28. I had asked them as I had to take it to the Alps a couple of years ago when my Fuji (which has a medium cage with a 30) let me down at the last minute. Managed fine on the 28 all the same.

(It's a 10 speed if that makes any difference)

All I can add is that my 10 speed AL9.0 is running a 12-30 on an Ui2 SS RD
I doubt it's Ui2 make a difference?

There was very little B screw adjustment too.

detones

If the real source of concern is knee pain. I'd look at getting that sorted. Sounds like you got up the hill ok. Maybe try some specific knee strengthening (single leg squats etc) exercises and avoid the steep hills until the legs are stronger. Your cadence won't be much quicker with a 32 or 30 vs a 28.

smacl

jon1981 wrote: »

Your knees might thank you for it though

I tend to do all my climbing seated and don't find I've any problems with knee pain. Coughing up bits of lung at the top would be more of an issue. :pac:

cython

smacl wrote: »

I tend to do all my climbing seated and don't find I've any problems with knee pain. Coughing up bits of lung at the top would be more of an issue. :pac:

At least you last until the top before that happens! :pac: