What to eat for a healthy supper.

RonanP77

I'm not sure if it's just habit or genuine hunger, but I have to eat something every night between 8 and 9 or I'll feel hungry going to bed. At the minute I tend to have cereal (wheatabix or cornflakes) covered in sugar and that's not good. I'm looking for a healthier alternative, or should I just try and break that habit?

Today for instance I'm having;

09:30
2 small apples
2 mandarin/satsuma

12:30
Wholemeal wrap with roast chicken, lettuce, onions and sweet chilli sauce.
2 mandarin/satsuma
1 small apple

16:00
Small apple
Mandarin/satsuma

18:30
Roast chicken
Steamed potatoes
Steamed/roast veg.

20:30
?????????

I don't normally have that much fruit but I was in a hurry so just loaded up the lunchbox.

livedadream

id reckon (and im not a professional dietian ive jsut lost a ****e load of weight) that your not eating enough.

My diet is more like this on a day to day:

breakfast: porridge/protein pancakes/ poached eggs on sweet potato hashbrowns with spinach

snack: almonds (smoked in the oven YUM btw)/ greek yoghurt/apple with peanut butter

lunch:lamb burger with salad/ Shepards pie (lean beef and sweet potato on top)/soup and a wrap

snack (only have a second one if i'm going to the gym or for a run): popcorn (homemade obvs) protein balls x 2

Dinner: wholegrain pasta with a chicken breast and veg/ smoked haddock and sweet potato chips/ salmon fillet with veg

snacks if im peckish at night:
homemade popcorn flavours with garlic salt, pepper etc
eggs if im really hungry poached or baked with some avacado

i find it important to eat light stuff at night or else i feel all icky when i wake up.

i dont eat alot of sugar because i have a serious sweet tooth and find if im eating fruit etc its get turned on again and im craving all around me...

RonanP77

Well I'm 150-155lbs, 5' 6" and a 38 year old bloke, so I'm reaching my calories for each day.

livedadream

RonanP77 wrote: »

Well I'm 150-155lbs, 5' 6" and a 38 year old bloke, so I'm reaching my calories for each day.

im not sure you are i work that out as:

09:30
2 small apples 80 + 80 =160
2 mandarin/satsuma 45 + 45 = 90

280

12:30
Wholemeal wrap with roast chicken, lettuce, onions and sweet chilli sauce. 172+147+5+30+40= 394
2 mandarin/satsuma 45+45=90
1 small apple 80

564

16:00
Small apple 80
Mandarin/satsuma 45

125

18:30
Roast chicken 147
Steamed potatoes 70
Steamed/roast veg. 138

355

total 1318 calories, thats almost 400 calories less than i eat and i'm a 29 year old 5 ft woman.

seems very low to me...

Mars Bar

Get some greek yogurt. It's high in protein and is not too heavy!

Essien

Not enough calories was what I first thought too.

In any case, you should be eating more fat, particularly if you're having trouble staying full.

You could try...

• Eat nuts instead of some of that fruit
• Add kerrygold to your spuds
• Boil/poach/scramble some eggs (there's never a bad time for eggs)

RonanP77

livedadream wrote:

18:30 Roast chicken 147 Steamed potatoes 70 Steamed/roast veg. 138

I love chicken so you can double that, potatoes will come in around 255 too, according to MyFitnessPal, I used to use it regularly.

livedadream wrote:

total 1318 calories, thats almost 400 calories less than i eat and im a 29 year old 5 ft woman.

Entering it all into MyFitnessPal it still comes out fairly low at 1521 or so. I'm ever so slightly overweight after 6 weeks of no activity due to a lung infection so my calorie goal is about 1,720 per day. I'm looking to drop about 3lbs over the next few weeks.

If I add in some kind of supper I'll be crossing 1,720.

RonanP77

Mars Bar wrote:

Get some greek yogurt. It's high in protein and is not too heavy!

I tried it before and thought it was alright, I mixed in a few nuts and berries to improve the taste.

Essien wrote:

You could try... Eat nuts instead of some of that fruitAdd kerrygold to your spudsBoil/poach/scramble some eggs (there's never a bad time for eggs)

I normally eat an egg a day but haven't been doing that for the last 6 weeks or so, I must start again. I like nuts but they're very expensive.

Irish_rat

I'd have some porridge/wheatabix in the morning or poached eggs.

Also some nuts would go well.

Looks really good then.

RonanP77

I gave up breakfast about 12 months ago. I get my first tea break at work at 9:00 most mornings so eat then instead. Maybe that was a bad move, I used to have porridge at home some mornings and it set me up nicely for the day.

Last year I was down at 147lbs because I ran a lot. Now I'm up to 157lbs this morning, I need to lose some of that then put it back on in the right way, ideally to settle around 154lbs. I'm done with running (constant injuries) and have moved to martial arts, mainly BJJ, so I need a slightly different body shape, I need a little more strength and muscle.

So I'm kind of losing weight to put it back on again, my body fat is probably low 20s now I need it around mid teens. Diet will play a massive role in that and I think having cereal at night is leaving me bloated and soft, it certainly isn't helping.

livedadream

RonanP77 wrote: »

I love chicken so you can double that, potatoes will come in around 255 too, according to MyFitnessPal, I used to use it regularly.




Entering it all into MyFitnessPal it still comes out fairly low at 1521 or so. I'm ever so slightly overweight after 6 weeks of no activity due to a lung infection so my calorie goal is about 1,720 per day. I'm looking to drop about 3lbs over the next few weeks.

If I add in some kind of supper I'll be crossing 1,720.

i use it religiously, in that case maybe you need to spread out your meals... ie instead of having two chicken breasts for dinner have one and fill up on veg and salad then have a snack later on thats lights cottage cheese is a big one for the gym peeps.

i see you said you dont eat breakfast as well, this is a rookie error unless you want to do fasted cardio or something.
i was the same i thought it was okay to not eat until 10 or 11 am etc but i realised my body was getting into starvation mode, not good.

RonanP77

livedadream wrote:

i see you said you dont eat breakfast as well, this is a rookie error unless you want to do fasted cardio or something. i was the same i thought it was okay to not eat until 10 or 11 am etc but i realised my body was getting into starvation mode, not good.

I used to like to run on an empty stomach before work in the mornings. Now, I just don't like eating at 7 and again at 9, maybe the answer is to have breakfast then eat a very small amount at 9, instead of rolling the two meals into one.

Essien

RonanP77 wrote: »

If I add in some kind of supper I'll be crossing 1,720.

If a higher percentage of those 1720kcals came from good quality fats, lean proteins and fibrous veg you probably wouldn't be as hungry by the end of the day.

Skipping breakfast isn't ideal in this case. In your position you really want to remain as full as possible for as long as possible - That might seem incredibly obvious, but when calories are low, simply managing your appetite is half the battle.

RonanP77

Well that's one thing decided then, from tomorrow on, I'm going back to breakfast at 7. I'll go for either a healthy and filling cereal or a boiled egg.

There's natural yoghurt in the house, I might try a small amount of it for supper tonight.

livedadream

RonanP77 wrote: »

I used to like to run on an empty stomach before work in the mornings. Now, I just don't like eating at 7 and again at 9, maybe the answer is to have breakfast then eat a very small amount at 9, instead of rolling the two meals into one.

snacks are key. go for a run, have a light breakfast if you want,

like i said im heavier than you shorter than you and a women, ive lost over 89 lbs in the past year and a half but there are rules i stick to,

water, water, water- dont drink your calories
low human intervention food (ie as close as it came out of the ground or off/out of the animal as possible no processed ****e)
two snacks a day with three solids meals
if im hungry i eat
treat once a week
keep my body moving everyday- but workout 6 times a week (twice on a Saturday) two nights running, two strength and conditioning classes and pliaties and a night in the gym. other days i just make sure i get out and be active- walk with friends stroll to the shop etc.
no refined sugar- (for me this also meant cutting out alot of fruit- i find it makes me crave sugar more so i needed too but i dont recommend it)

maybe speak to a dietitian or nutritionist if you can afford it, i went to meet one in Cork for a once off and go back to her if i need a hand with something like updating a meal plan or have gone off the rails a bit.

RonanP77

livedadream wrote:

water, water, water- dont drink your calories low human intervention food (ie as close as it came out of the ground or off/out of the animal as possible no processed ****e) two snacks a day with three solids meals if im hungry i eat treat once a week keep my body moving everyday- but workout 6 times a week (twice on a Saturday) two nights running, two strength and conditioning classes and pliaties and a night in the gym. other days i just make sure i get out and be active- walk with friends stroll to the shop etc. no refined sugar- (for me this also meant cutting out alot of fruit- i find it makes me crave sugar more so i needed too but i dont recommend it)

Once I get over this lung infection fully I'll be doing BJJ three nights a week (double class on Friday), MMA once in a blue moon, cycling one evening a week and walking/light jogging once a week. I need to fit in some light weights somewhere too, so I'll be fairly active.

livedadream wrote:

maybe speak to a dietitian or nutritionist if you can afford it, i went to meet one in Cork for a once off and go back to her if i need a hand with something like updating a meal plan or have gone off the rails a bit.

I think in general I eat the right foods, I just need to get the balance right.

Blacktie.

livedadream wrote:

i see you said you dont eat breakfast as well, this is a rookie error unless you want to do fasted cardio or something. i was the same i thought it was okay to not eat until 10 or 11 am etc but i realised my body was getting into starvation mode, not good.

This has been well debunked at this stage. Breakfast is a preference not a necessity.

livedadream

Blacktie. wrote: »

This has been well debunked at this stage. Breakfast is a preference not a necessity.

links? peer reviewed articles?

Blacktie.

livedadream wrote: »

links? peer reviewed articles?

I really don't want to go digging for articles on this but think about it. You're body doesn't freak out because you haven't eaten in 12+ hours. Periods of fasting is actually a pretty healthy thing to do. TDEE determines fat loss. As you cut calories this will lower but not having breakfast doesn't shut down your metabolism or some other broscience spiel.

FTA69

In fairness it's a moot argument as the man says he eats at 9am, that's a perfectly reasonable "breakfast" time as it is so he's hardly starving himself for half the day.

Blacktie.

FTA69 wrote:

In fairness it's a moot argument as the man says he eats at 9am, that's a perfectly reasonable "breakfast" time as it is so he's hardly starving himself for half the day.

Ha didn't even catch that part.

conzy

Again its more important what you have eaten that whole day or that whole week. Define healthy?

If you have only eaten 1200 calories that day then two beef burgers with cheese or half a roast chicken may be a perfectly reasonable "supper"

Same way a half tub of ice cream may be reasonable. Or if you have eaten most of your calories that day no supper at all or a banana could be a "healthy supper"

No food is unhealthy. Lifestyles are unhealthy. I eat kilos of meat and veg every week. I have most of my "healthy" eating done during the day and will often just have chocolate, ice cream, cereal or a beer at night

Dtp1979

RonanP77 wrote: »

I tried it before and thought it was alright, I mixed in a few nuts and berries to improve the taste.



I normally eat an egg a day but haven't been doing that for the last 6 weeks or so, I must start again. I like nuts but they're very expensive.

There's a great selection of bagged nuts on lidl or aldi and they're not expensive at all

Mellor

livedadream wrote: »

total 1318 calories, thats almost 400 calories less than i eat and i'm a 29 year old 5 ft woman.

seems very low to me...

You can't really know that it is that many calories without knowing quantities.

147 for chicken assumes its is a tiny piece tbh.

livedadream wrote: »

i was the same i thought it was okay to not eat until 10 or 11 am etc but i realised my body was getting into starvation mode, not good.

How was it going into starvation mode? How long were you not eating for.
How long do you not eat for now.

The idea that you have to eat first thing contradicts your other advice, namely "if im hungry i eat".

livedadream wrote: »

links? peer reviewed articles?

You've made the claim of starvation mode, do you have peer reviewed articles that back that up?


@RonanP77 if you are not hungry first thing then you don't need to eat. 9.30 is a perfectly reasonable time to eat. Your meals are quite light, and the snacks are all the same. I'd probably try to get some fats/carbs/non-fruit snacks in there too. If thats what you are eating though, there nothing wrong with having a snack at 9pm. Just account for it like you have been doing in MFP

livedadream

You can't really know that it is that many calories without knowing quantities.

147 for chicken assumes its is a tiny piece tbh.

its approx 4oz, a portion, a palm sized amount.

and like i said it i worked it out as, not Im a calorie expert and me saying i reckon you are not eating enough, 'i reckon' was the giveaway there.

How was it going into starvation mode? How long were you not eating for.
How long do you not eat for now.

like i said i was only speaking from my own experience, ive come down from over 20 stone to right now im at about just under 13.7 stone.
When i first went to my Dietitian, i was doing the whole not eating after 7pm thing, then skipping breakfast, needless to say i plateau'd pretty fast,
she explained it to me simply:

i was skipping breakfast and having lunch at around 1pmish come half 2 id be hungry again, my body was thinking, will i have to wait another 12 or so hours before i get fule again or should i use this.

Like i said only my experience.

The idea that you have to eat first thing contradicts your other advice, namely "if im hungry i eat".

like i said my body works differently now, obviously it does, my BMR and RMR have changed significantly. my Dietitian uses RMR tests as part of a study she is doing on morbidly obese people so im lucky to have that opportunity.

You've made the claim of starvation mode, do you have peer reviewed articles that back that up?

yes, but like i said i was only speaking from my own experience.

the best one i have rest since starting the weight loss is this one:

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/18502453

it basically follows the idea that Long term calorie restriction has an impact on metabolic function... most relevant finding was:

''As expected, absolute 24-h energy expenditure and sleeping metabolic rate (both measured in a respiratory chamber) were significantly reduced from baseline with CR (p<0.001). Importantly, however, both 24-h sedentary and sleeping energy expenditures were reduced ~6% beyond what was expected for the loss of metabolic mass (i.e., fat-free and fat mass) (31).''

as an fyi, in general its not called starvation mode, Dr's are fancy they like long term calorie restriction instead.

then theres all these:

http://journals.cambridge.org/action/displayFulltext?type=1&fid=789564&jid=PNS&volumeId=54&issueId=01&aid=789556

http://www.ajcn.org/content/46/4/622.full.pdf+html

http://www.ajcn.org/content/68/1/1.full.pdf+html?sid=1f835bd6-51e1-49c0-a79e-e73fa166c490

http://www.ajcn.org/content/71/6/1511.full.pdf+html?sid=1f835bd6-51e1-49c0-a79e-e73fa166c490

http://www.ajcn.org/content/83/2/461S.full.pdf+html?sid=25df97eb-0ad2-4dbd-91a7-07d1ff371d19

http://jcem.endojournals.org/content/96/1/66.full?sid=fbb2018e-851b-468e-82d3-e0326c632ce4

http://www.ajcn.org/content/68/3/599.full.pdf+html?sid=0a679b54-6b93-4a1c-8ce1-88b3f0402baf

in general they all say the same thing: your body does not work as effectively as it should if you dont fuel it correctly.

The use of Starvation mode is not obviously a medical term, The term is generally misunderstood and mis-used. It can mean anything from suppressed metabolism to losing LBM in excess of what you would under a smaller calorie restriction.

hope this helps.

RonanP77

Today is totally different from yesterday because there was a better variety of food in the house.

07:00
Boiled egg - 70 cal

09:30
2 x Wholemeal yoghurt scones (homemade) - 248 cal
Banana - 89
(Total 337)

12:30
3 x slices wholemeal bread - 242 cal
Chicken breast - 155 cal
Small apple - 40 cal
Satsuma - 81cal
(Total 436)

18:00
Smoked Haddock - 264 cal
Wholegrain rice - 218 cal
Cashew nuts - 292 cal
Red pepper - 16 cal
Onion - 34 cal
(Total 824)

Water - 2 litres.

(Daily total - 1669 cal)

I might have yoghurt with fruit for supper, I'll see how I feel.

Mellor

livedadream wrote: »

its approx 4oz, a portion, a palm sized amount.

and like i said it i worked it out as, not Im a calorie expert and me saying i reckon you are not eating enough, 'i reckon' was the giveaway there.

And as I said, it's a very small piece. I doubt he is eating something that small.

like i said i was only speaking from my own experience, ive come down from over 20 stone to right now im at about just under 13.7 stone.
When i first went to my Dietitian, i was doing the whole not eating after 7pm thing, then skipping breakfast, needless to say i plateau'd pretty fast,
she explained it to me simply:

i was skipping breakfast and having lunch at around 1pmish come half 2 id be hungry again, my body was thinking, will i have to wait another 12 or so hours before i get fule again or should i use this.

First of all, that's great weight loss well done.
7pm to 1pm is a much longer fast than the OP situation. I definitely would agree with that approach, but I don't see how it proves you were in this supposed starvation mode.

like i said my body works differently now, obviously it does, my BMR and RMR have changed significantly. my Dietitian uses RMR tests as part of a study she is doing on morbidly obese people so im lucky to have that opportunity.

I'm not surprised RMR and BMR are different. You body is complete different size.

the best one i have rest since starting the weight loss is this one:

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/18502453

it basically follows the idea that Long term calorie restriction has an impact on metabolic function... most relevant finding was:

''As expected, absolute 24-h energy expenditure and sleeping metabolic rate (both measured in a respiratory chamber) were significantly reduced from baseline with CR (p<0.001). Importantly, however, both 24-h sedentary and sleeping energy expenditures were reduced ~6% beyond what was expected for the loss of metabolic mass (i.e., fat-free and fat mass) (31).''

That's a study in long term calorie restriction.
Skipping breakfast isn't long term, its a few hours. I didn't see anything there that suggests skipping breakfast engages a starvation mode.


I'm well aware that long term calorie restriction can affect a person metabolic rate. That wasn't disputed. I'm disputing that skipping breakfast with invoke starvation mode, verses somebody who eats breakfast and the same total daily calories.

as an fyi, in general its not called starvation mode, Dr's are fancy they like long term calorie restriction instead.

Well brought up it as "starvation mode". And FYI, its NOT same as long term calorie restriction. Calorie restriction (CR) is, as the name inplies, the restricted energy intake. "Starvation mode" is a supposed drop in metabolic rate to conserve energy as a result of CR.

then theres all these:

http://journals.cambridge.org/action/displayFulltext?type=1&fid=789564&jid=PNS&volumeId=54&issueId=01&aid=789556

http://www.ajcn.org/content/46/4/622.full.pdf+html

http://www.ajcn.org/content/68/1/1.full.pdf+html?sid=1f835bd6-51e1-49c0-a79e-e73fa166c490

http://www.ajcn.org/content/71/6/1511.full.pdf+html?sid=1f835bd6-51e1-49c0-a79e-e73fa166c490

http://www.ajcn.org/content/83/2/461S.full.pdf+html?sid=25df97eb-0ad2-4dbd-91a7-07d1ff371d19

http://jcem.endojournals.org/content/96/1/66.full?sid=fbb2018e-851b-468e-82d3-e0326c632ce4

http://www.ajcn.org/content/68/3/599.full.pdf+html?sid=0a679b54-6b93-4a1c-8ce1-88b3f0402baf

in general they all say the same thing: your body does not work as effectively as it should if you dont fuel it correctly.

Had a quick flick through a few of them. Seen nothing that suggest starvation mode kicks in when you skip breakfast.

The use of Starvation mode is not obviously a medical term, The term is generally misunderstood and mis-used. It can mean anything from suppressed metabolism to losing LBM in excess of what you would under a smaller calorie restriction.

I agree it's mis-used, that's my point. Long term starvation have affect the body in a number of way. But the key is long term. Not a matter of hours.
Skipping breakfast (and having the calories later in the day) is not going to suddenly cripple somebodies metabolism, yet the one of the most common way it gets thrown about.


Which is why Blacktie said

Blacktie wrote:

This has been well debunked at this stage. Breakfast is a preference not a necessity.

You're body doesn't freak out because you haven't eaten in 12+ hours. Periods of fasting is actually a pretty healthy thing to do. TDEE determines fat loss. As you cut calories this will lower but not having breakfast doesn't shut down your metabolism or some other broscience spiel.

laoch na mona

a few eggs scrambled is always a good light meal