Security at airports

Andy From Sligo

Wife has come back from a weekend away - flew from Dublin to Birmingham. So I asked her what was the security like now at the airports she passed through. I asked was there any security before getting to check-in desk now after the Brussels attack and she said there wasn't and that anyone can walk into check-in without any security measures in place whether your flying or not.

So , in the light of what happened the other week in Brussels , do you reckon airports across the globe should have checks and scans before even walking into terminal building ... or would that be too over the top or knee jerk reaction?

Fr_Dougal

You'd find bigger queues at the Lidl checkouts. Hard to cater for all queues.

Collie D

Would be a nightmare. You'd just be moving the crowds from inside to outside and potentially making any wannabe martyr's job easier by not even having to enter the building for him to detonate.

Get Real

I understand what you mean Op, and have thought about it myself.

However I suppose it comes down to as far as is reasonable.

And that line- "as far is as reasonable" will constantly change for years to come. As recently as the 90s, many airports had no security at all on domestic flights, but it became reasonable to justify its strict enforcement.

Now we have people bombing inside airports, before security.

Does that mean we should place the same measures everywhere. In Croke Park at a sell out game for example? The same amount of damage could be caused. Likewise at premier league matches across the channel. Entire streets for Patricks Day, New years Eve gatherings?

A fair point raised, but probably not worth living like that and giving in to it all

smash

Andy From Sligo wrote: »

Wife has come back from a weekend away - flew from Dublin to Birmingham. So I asked her what was the security like now at the airports she passed through. I asked was there any security before getting to check-in desk now after the Brussels attack and she said there wasn't and that anyone can walk into check-in without any security measures in place whether your flying or not.

So , in the light of what happened the other week in Brussels , do you reckon airports across the globe should have checks and scans before even walking into terminal building ... or would that be too over the top or knee jerk reaction?

So did she get the coke back ok then?

kneemos

They can walk into a shopping mall or a train or bus station just as easy.
The only protection against these people is intelligence .

punisher5112

Tell her not to worry op she can smuggle some more and hope she gets caught so she can be on rte.....


Make sure she memorises the story though.

JackHeuston

They should put security in people's driveways. Might as well get over with it as soon as you leave your house so you don't have to think about it for the rest of the day.

Jokes aside, I'm actually more concerned on what the point is in inconveniencing millions of people with these procedures, to catch... half a criminal each time?

Lia_lia

Andy From Sligo wrote: »

So , in the light of what happened the other week in Brussels , do you reckon airports across the globe should have checks and scans before even walking into terminal building ... or would that be too over the top or knee jerk reaction?

No, this would be ridiculous. Would take ages too. That would just be the start of it. Terrorist attacks can happen anywhere, you can't check everyone.

AnonoBoy

I walked into a Dealz outlet the other day and only had to go through one strip-search before I could buy my discount deodorant.

Andy From Sligo

id like to think maybe there are some behind the scenes surveillance going on outside the building at least even if its heavily scrutinised CCTV footage of people before they even went into the building .. at least?

biko

I was going to say Birmingham airport should be off-limits because there are so many muslims there (about a fifth) but then I realised Brussels has a very high percentage of muslims too (about a quarter).

It's pretty clear IS don't give a **** about who they hurt.

uck51js9zml2yt

Would it take ages though?
Scan just cases with a wand or a percentage.
Airports would need enough staff to do it.
It was regular in Dublin during the troubles but then it didn't have the crowds as it does now.

Ulysses Gaze

So , in the light of what happened the other week in Brussels , do you reckon airports across the globe should have checks and scans before even walking into terminal building ... or would that be too over the top or knee jerk reaction?

Won't happen because if you had queues of people outside of an airport, then there is a likelihood a suicide bomber would just join a queue and detonate a bomb killing people in said queue anyway.

Yamanoto

Ulysses Gaze wrote: »

Won't happen because if you had queues of people outside of an airport, then there is a likelihood a suicide bomber would just join a queue and detonate a bomb killing people in said queue anyway.

Authorities may ultimately look at placing security cordons at airport perimeters, only allowing passengers ticketed to travel access beyond a certain point.

If the style of attack perpetrated in Zaventem is repeated, the unthinkable will become a very real possibility.

Andy From Sligo

well Brussels airport now have stepped up security now before you even get into check-in foyer now, so they are managing to do it OK. Some people will say that its like locking the gates after the horse has bolted, some will say that all other airports should now do this. and as with other attacks somewhere it normally has a knock on effect of making other airports stepping up their security at airports .. except for this time it seems.

When there was a shoe bomber then other airports across the world made passengers remove their shoes, when other bombs went off they made restrictions on liquids you could bring on the plane.

But in the case of the Brussels airport attack why has no other airports stepped up their security before you even get into the check in area? - what are they waiting for another Brussels attack to happen again before doing something?

I believe now in Brussels airport, even if you are not flying now or have a ticket you are not even allowed inside the building at all now.

Andy From Sligo

Yamanoto wrote: »

Authorities may ultimately look at placing security cordons at airport perimeters, only allowing passengers ticketed to travel access beyond a certain point.

If the style of attack perpetrated in Zaventem is repeated, the unthinkable will become a very real possibility.

er , well what are they waiting for? .... another attack? - and more innocent peoples lives put at risk before they put some more security in place?

questionmark?

If everyone ques outside then if they want to bomb it will be done outside.
Do we have security scanners in pubs and clubs, every sports match, shopping centre etc... If people go over the top and create fear and/or anger then they are achieving their aims.

donvito99

Andy From Sligo wrote: »

er , well what are they waiting for? .... another attack? - and more innocent peoples lives put at risk before they put some more security in place?

25 million people travel thru Dublin airport every year.
How would you search everyone's bag landside - thereby ensuring you haven't a bomb - without massively inconveniencing all of them?

And all this based on an attack in Brussels. The islamist threat to Ireland is minute. The biggest threat to Dublin airport - other than an aircraft accident - is fire and a bad evacuation.

Why should we always have to go out of our way to inconvenience ourselves and appease terrorism?

Andy From Sligo

questionmark? wrote: »

If everyone ques outside then if they want to bomb it will be done outside.
Do we have security scanners in pubs and clubs, every sports match, shopping centre etc... If people go over the top and create fear and/or anger then they are achieving their aims.

and if people have a lax attitude or a "you dont scare us!" attitude what does that lead to .... does it save lives?

Yamanoto

Andy From Sligo wrote: »

er , well what are they waiting for? .... another attack? - and more innocent peoples lives put at risk before they put some more security in place?

Enhanced security measures have followed on from Brussels across much of Europe & the US.

But formulating a longer term approach (which may alter the way in which the public are allowed access to airports) would require a huge degree of consultation between national governments, industry & international civil aviation authorities & would clearly take a considerable period of time to work through.

ED E

They should put up some nice cardboard scanners at the doors. Make them giant sure for effect.


The security measures are mostly for your peace of mind OP, not security. When the FBI tested the TSA who use the most intrusive of all the scanners they failed 67 of 70 tests.

The fact that my brother accidentally got a swiss army knife through 2 of three screening points (multi leg journey) before it finally being found (8-9yrs ago now, but fully metal knife...) speaks to how much good they actually do.


Metros are super easy to bomb and cause almost as much damage as mid air break up of a jet liner. Yet we've only seen a handful of attacks on said. While these attacks are atrocious there really are very few people attempting them.

Turtyturd

Fair play Andy, think of all the lives this thread has saved.

Andy From Sligo

Turtyturd wrote: »

Fair play Andy, think of all the lives this thread has saved.

oh dear - is that sarcasm i detect?

ArielAtom

Security in Airports has not really changed that much since 9/11. I have travelled a bit and there is no consistency to security across the globe. Some insist on removing of shoe, laptops, liquids etc. Some cherry pick which elements they want on show. Newark is different to most as in you don't go through scanning until you get to your departure gate.

It is what it is, still for the first time in a long time I'm not looking forward tointernational travel.

AA.

323

ArielAtom wrote: »

Security in Airports has not really changed that much since 9/11. I have travelled a bit and there is no consistency to security across the globe. Some insist on removing of shoe, laptops, liquids etc. Some cherry pick which elements they want on show. Newark is different to most as in you don't go through scanning until you get to your departure gate.

It is what it is, still for the first time in a long time I'm not looking forward tointernational travel.

AA.

Agree, and with what ED E mentioned, mostly for travelers peace of mind and appearances sake, bugger all to do with real security. Great money spinner for the companies in the ever expanding security business' I imagine.

Overall effect has been to make international travel a much more miserable and stressful experience compared to before 2001.

Straight Edge Punk

To be perfectly honest, they can't make airports anymore secure than they already are. If you move a security barrier to outside the airport grounds then a bomber simply lines up there instead of inside the building, it makes no difference whatsoever to them.

The flying mouse

I remember the times when your bags where checked at the entrance into Dublin airport,The auld dub security man would sometimes just look at you and say ah ur grand you dont look like you have a bomb...

Princess Consuela Bananahammock

Andy From Sligo wrote: »

er , well what are they waiting for? .... another attack? - and more innocent peoples lives put at risk before they put some more security in place?

Why airports? The guy at the metro station took out more people than the two at the airport.

If a suicide bomber wants to blow themselves up with a crowded bunch of people, they're going to blow themselves up with a crowded bunch of people. There will be more attacks. If you make the airports safer, they'll hit the train stations. If they cordon off the train stations, they'll hit the shopping centres. Or sports matches. Or even just a pub full of people watching a sports match.

BattleCorp

Andy From Sligo wrote: »

er , well what are they waiting for? .... another attack? - and more innocent peoples lives put at risk before they put some more security in place?

Terrorists will always do terrorist sh1t. We can try and stop them but if they are determined to cause havoc, they will.

What security are you suggesting? Get everybody to queue outside the airport to go through security checks. Imagine that at 5am in Dublin, in the Winter. And has been mentioned loads of times already, what protects that queue.

And if airports become too difficult to attack, then they will attack subways, trains, bus stations etc.

And if they become to difficult to attack, then attack schools, churches etc. etc.

Yes we need security but you also have to be practical about things. We can't protect everything all of the time.

BKtje

ED E wrote: »

They should put up some nice cardboard scanners at the doors. Make them giant sure for effect.


The security measures are mostly for your peace of mind OP, not security. When the FBI tested the TSA who use the most intrusive of all the scanners they failed 67 of 70 tests.

The fact that my brother accidentally got a swiss army knife through 2 of three screening points (multi leg journey) before it finally being found (8-9yrs ago now, but fully metal knife...) speaks to how much good they actually do.

The standard swiss army knife is actually allowed on planes in your carry on. There is a certain size of blade that is allowed. Was with a friend who had forgotten be had it in his bag, they took it out, controlled the blade length and have it back to him.

Del2005

Andy From Sligo wrote: »

and if people have a lax attitude or a "you dont scare us!" attitude what does that lead to .... does it save lives?

It doesn't save lives but it means that the terrorists have lost part of the battle. The whole point of terrorism is to frighten people into staying in bed. The Paris attacks where at a concert and recently in Pakistan a park. The Israelis have metal detectors and security on the door of nearly every business, so now they are being stabbed in the street.

If we wanted to save lives we'd spend more on suicide prevention. Terrorism statistically doesn't kill that many people yet we spend much more against a low level treat while not dealing with much bigger killers and serious health issues.

Memnoch

We should build a wall. Get Saudi Arabia to pay for it.

brummytom

Birmingham Airport's had armed police patrols around the terminals for years now.

BattleCorp

brummytom wrote: »

Birmingham Airport's had armed police patrols around the terminals for years now.

I doubt armed police on patrol would make much difference to a suicide bomber who was intent on getting his 72 virgins.

biko

Memnoch wrote: »

We should build a wall. Get Saudi Arabia to pay for it.

They already have a wall. It has deflected every single Syrian refugee so far.

ED E

BKtje wrote: »

The standard swiss army knife is actually allowed on planes in your carry on. There is a certain size of blade that is allowed. Was with a friend who had forgotten be had it in his bag, they took it out, controlled the blade length and have it back to him.

Well, I cant be quite sure of its dimensions at this point but the third security agent was sure it was prohibited.

HensVassal

Andy From Sligo wrote: »

Wife has come back from a weekend away - flew from Dublin to Birmingham. So I asked her what was the security like now at the airports she passed through. I asked was there any security before getting to check-in desk now after the Brussels attack and she said there wasn't and that anyone can walk into check-in without any security measures in place whether your flying or not.

So , in the light of what happened the other week in Brussels , do you reckon airports across the globe should have checks and scans before even walking into terminal building ... or would that be too over the top or knee jerk reaction?

Airports are practically impossible to secure. The size of the buildings, the size of the perimeter, the countless business and staff from myriad different companies. You could throw on a pair of overalls and a name tag of some description and carry a clipboard and nobody would look twice at you. You could walk in the back door uninterrupted. If you've ever seen the staff at security you would know that if they weren't working this job they'd be pulling pints. Besides the whole airport security thing is an unecessary sham.

DubDani

You would think that with all the technology that they have at their hands, that it won't be necessary to strip down to your undies to get through Security.

Dublin in my experience is extreme, in that you have to take off Belts, Shoes more often then not and 2 weeks ago they even asked me to take my hoodie off.

No other Airport has ever asked me to take off Shoes or Sweater etc., so always wondering why Dublin Airport thinks it is necessary.

stoplooklisten

I won't be happy until they anal probe every passenger and any people who come to wave them off

Princess Consuela Bananahammock

DubDani wrote: »

You would think that with all the technology that they have at their hands, that it won't be necessary to strip down to your undies to get through Security.

Dublin in my experience is extreme, in that you have to take off Belts, Shoes more often then not and 2 weeks ago they even asked me to take my hoodie off.

No other Airport has ever asked me to take off Shoes or Sweater etc., so always wondering why Dublin Airport thinks it is necessary.

The problem with belts is that the buckle triggers off the metal detector. Getting people to take them off just means less time spent frisking and speeds up the overall passage of people. Same with some shoes - I have a pair that triggers them off every time. Dunno abotu hoddies - perhaps it was made of tin-foil?!

Andy From Sligo

Princess Consuela Bananahammock wrote: »

Why airports? The guy at the metro station took out more people than the two at the airport.

very good point - they have put very stringent security in the brussels airport now, but i woner what they have done at their metro stations, i didnt get to hear anything about them