Unwashed person in office

annascott

I have just taken in a student on work placement for two days per week. The problem is that he doesn't seem to wash his clothes and there is a stale sickly smell coming from him. Today I left the office for an hour and when I came back the smell build up almost made me gag. I am worried that the smell will carry onto the clothes and hair of other workers. I have a secretary on leave who returns to work next week and will have to share an office with him.

In every other area he seems polite and competent. I would appreciate any help with this matter. How do I ask him to leave without him thinking that his work is at fault?

listermint

Ask him to leave? Why not ask him to upkeep cleanliness ?

Miaireland

I probably wouldn't ask him to leave straight off. I would be honest and discreet and ask him to make sure that he showers and wears clean clothes before he comes to work.

tayto lover

Take him into your office and tell him to come in washed with clean fresh clothes the next day.
You have to be blunt about it if you want to fix the problem.
I had that problem with a lad i worked with before. There is no easy way and beating about the bush will not sort the problem.

uck51js9zml2yt

You dont have to ask him to leave. Just ask him to wash.

I've had to have that conversation with an employee after customers complained about him.
He was a driver who would have spent his day delivering clean products and removing soiled..it was a sweaty job.
Its never the easiest conversation to have but for his own sake( and career) you need to have it. Remember it may be his first office job and he just doesnt realise.


YOu could go about it saying "some of the girls have mentioned to me that there is a strong BO smell in the office since you arrived" or something more tactful.
One thing though, do it in private

radia

Letting him go seems a bit extreme. As others have said, he needs to be told. There are ways of softening the message a bit: "I know you mightn't have worked in an office like this before so you may not realise how noticeable even minor smells are when we're sitting so close, but..."

There are also anonymous email services like this one: http://www.nooffenseoranything.com/. However, I think the best approach is just to address it in a matter of fact way, face to face.

annascott

I really do not want to embarrass him. The thing that puzzles me most is that he supposedly lives with a girlfriend and child. I am shocked that she would let him out that way. The smell has obviously been building up on his clothes for quite some time.

draiochtanois

This post has been deleted.

Westernyelp

You don't want to embarrass yourself is probably more true? Have the conversation, you will be doing him a favour.

LegacyUser

You'll just have to tell him. Simple as that. Its awful but as a manager you cant expect others in office to put up with it. This happened in our office a few years ago. we told our manager (there was 2 of us had to sit either side of this guy - lovely guy but absolutely reeked) Mgr brought him in & told him & apparently he was very upset. but the next day no joke he was like a new man clean shaven & clean & washed we worked with him for a year or so after & we never had the problem with him again. Maybe he just doesn't realise.

uck51js9zml2yt

annascott wrote: »

I really do not want to embarrass him. The thing that puzzles me most is that he supposedly lives with a girlfriend and child. I am shocked that she would let him out that way. The smell has obviously been building up on his clothes for quite some time.

Its probably the most difficult conversation you will ever have with an employee apart from maybe sacking them but you need to get over your own discomfort and have a chat. He might be your most productive employee ever..If he's not, he'll certainly be enabled to hold down a job in the future.

Mrs OBumble

annascott wrote: »

I really do not want to embarrass him. The thing that puzzles me most is that he supposedly lives with a girlfriend and child. I am shocked that she would let him out that way. The smell has obviously been building up on his clothes for quite some time.

There's nowt as strange as folks!


One thing to keep in mind: This problem (poor personal hygiene) is usually due to clueless-ness, as others have mentioned.

But it can also be due to mental illness - one signal for this is if it's intermittent rather than all the time. If you have any sense that this is the case, then tread a good deal more carefully, and get an HR professional involved.

Whatever you do though - do it fast. Do not leave the problem to fester (literally ) for weeks: it's embarrassing to tell him now, but is a lot harder when your message is "you've been like this for ages ... "

tuisginideach

Surely having just taken him on for 2 days a week on placement - this must be the easiest time to do it. The longer he is allowed turn up like that, the harder it becomes to mention it. As others have said, you are actually doing him a favour.

Magico Gonzalez

If legal, I would include it in the employment contract....something about maintaining a decent standard of personal hygiene.

I don't know if that's even possible, but it should be!

That way you could just give him a friendly warning about adhering to the personal hygiene t&c's in his contract.

It's that or hose him down on the way in the door.

Icepick

Gavin Little Beekeeper wrote: »

YOu could go about it saying "some of the girls have mentioned to me that there is a strong BO smell in the office since you arrived" or something more tactful.
One thing though, do it in private

That's not tactful. As his manager, you have to make clear that it's a problem for you as you have duty of care to everybody in the office.

Harika

We had a similar case and it was handled in following steps:
1. Send an email to all workers and clarified the stance on personal hygiene in the office
2. Talked to the employee in private
3. Send the employee home to shower and get fresh clothes

hawkeyethenoo

Harika wrote: »

We had a similar case and it was handled in following steps:
1. Send an email to all workers and clarified the stance on personal hygiene in the office
2. Talked to the employee in private
3. Send the employee home to shower and get fresh clothes

the last one is out of order, surely steps one and two are enough? embarrassing someone by sending them home to shower??

December2012

You are, at some stage, going to have to have an awkward conversation with an employee. Why not start now? The problem is fixable, and avoidable and hopefully temporary.

You say that you have noticed an odour and you would like to advise that it is not allowed. Each person must wear clean clothes and maintain persons hygiene.

If there is any reason that is not happening (if a person had no access to running warm water or old musty clothes) then maybe help can be given. Or not. But getting let go instead of being asked to clean up is not helping anybody.

LegacyUser

Just bash up a quick document on company policy re dress code, appearance, grooming and cleanliness. Forward it to him and say you're new, you probably haven't seen this yet, have a read and let me know if any questions. Should get the message, if not mention it in terms of compliance with company policy.

Robsweezie

there could be a situation where the young lads confidence is damaged and he gets a complex after being told, maybe feels paranoid and decides to leave with the embarrassment. But I get the need to nip it in the bud. If it were me im not sure i would say anything, depends on the smell. is it overpowering?

Mech1

I would do this :
Invite him into your office and ask him if he smokes has a pet dog or cat or maybe has a friend / housemates that do.

Tell him that someone in the workplace thinks that he maybe the cause of a sensitive nasal tract reaction as it started again for the first time in months the morning he first started.
Tell him that all staff know to wash well and ensure clothing is sanitary every day in order to prevent this anonymous employee suffering.

El_Duderino 09

Mech1 wrote:

Tell him that someone in the workplace thinks that he maybe the cause of a sensitive nasal tract reaction as it started again for the first time in months the morning he first started. Tell him that all staff know to wash well and ensure clothing is sanitary every day in order to prevent this anonymous employee suffering.

I'm never sure if this is an Irish thing or just something all people do.

Why make up such a load of nonsense. A person would lose all their respect if they told someone that fairy story. Sensitive nasal tract reaction.

Tell them the truth. It's normal to correct someone on inappropriate behaviour. If they were rude to customers, you would correct them. If they messed up the job, you would coach them. Correct them or coach them like an adult who cares about their business. Making up stories or phoney medical conditions is childish.

uck51js9zml2yt

Icepick wrote: »

That's not tactful. As his manager, you have to make clear that it's a problem for you as you have duty of care to everybody in the office.

I never said it was

With my driver a can of deodorant did the job and aa chat with the customer as to the kind of work he did and how it was very physical.

Ursus Horribilis

Harika wrote: »

We had a similar case and it was handled in following steps:
1. Send an email to all workers and clarified the stance on personal hygiene in the office
2. Talked to the employee in private
3. Send the employee home to shower and get fresh clothes

Did all three of these steps happen at the same time? Or was the employee only sent home after the email and the "chat" failed?

Boardz Fiend

El_Duderino 09 wrote: »

I'm never sure if this is an Irish thing or just something all people do.

Why make up such a load of nonsense. A person would lose all their respect if they told someone that fairy story. Sensitive nasal tract reaction.

Tell them the truth. It's normal to correct someone on inappropriate behaviour. If they were rude to customers, you would correct them. If they messed up the job, you would coach them. Correct them or coach them like an adult who cares about their business. Making up stories or phoney medical conditions is childish.

100% agree with your comments. Its black and white really. .. also, yes I think the inability to be direct is most certainly an Irish thing

Harika

Odus fell down wrote: »

Did all three of these steps happen at the same time? Or was the employee only sent home after the email and the "chat" failed?

Happened step by step and there were weeks between. Step 3 even happened twice, months between. Then the employee left.

TheChizler

I've known a few people this reminds me of. They claimed to shower twice a day and that it was glandular. They always had the same stains on their clothes so I suspect they never washed them. Always mention the clothes!

Turtle_

If he's on placement, do you have a contact with his college? Maybe tell them his work is great and you have absolutely no gripes in that respect, but personal hygiene is a problem and maybe would be best tackled by the college addressing the whole class about expectations in a professional environment - clean and fresh clothes (not just clothes that pass their own sniff test) every day, beards trimmed/clean shaven, hair tidy, nails neat and clean etc.

huggles85

The best bit of professional advice I ever got about having to be assertive (on any matter) was to acknowledge the other person first and their situation.
You mentioned this chap had a baby and girlfriend and other then the smell he was competent in all other areas.
You could start by acknowledging his competency and lead on to the issue at hand. You could say something like "Your work is good and I appreciate you have a busy life outside work but we like to maintain high standards of hygiene in work etc etc [insert whatever you need to say here]".

Depending on the outcome of that you could then escalate (HR,college etc,not sure of the exact circumstances) but hopefully he'll get the hint first time round face to face.

Neyite

annascott wrote: »

The thing that puzzles me most is that he supposedly lives with a girlfriend and child. I am shocked that she would let him out that way. The smell has obviously been building up on his clothes for quite some time.

That's a bit sexist, don't you think? He's an adult responsible for his own personal hygiene, and more than capable of sticking a load of clothes into a washing machine and turning a knob. Or using a bit of shower gel. But yeah, blame a woman for his lack of personal hygiene. :rolleyes:

Sunny Dayz

I would ask him into the office for a little chat about how he has been getting on. Let him know how his work has been, give him positive feedback on it, any areas of possible improvement in his work. Keep it fairly casual, like you want to see how he is getting on so far.
Then say to him that you have noticed odour which may be offensive to other workers or customers. You really are going to have to bite the bullet and tell him straight, sending around memos won't work, if anything it will highlight the issue with other workers if this guy is really oblivious to it. Just let him know that high standards of personal hygiene must be maintained when working in an office space and that you have noticed that he has failed this. Suggest to him that he wears a cleanly washed and ironed shirt each day (or whatever the dress code is). Maybe go through with him in detail what the dress code is, he may have never worked in an office environment before (or even worked anywhere before).


To be honest, I think men have a poorer sense of smell than women. I'm not being sexist but I have noticed it with my husband and son. Also, it's actually difficult to smell yourself!

Mrs OBumble

Robsweezie wrote: »

there could be a situation where the young lads confidence is damaged and he gets a complex after being told, maybe feels paranoid and decides to leave with the embarrassment.

The OP is his employee, not his mammy.

If he's f*ing up, then he needs to be told, and given the opportunity to improve.

School teachers may get away with not telling little darlings about problem because it may bruise their fragile little egos, but it doesn't fly in the workforce.

Either the OP can get the problem fixed now, or the guys career will go nowhere, fast.

Ursus Horribilis

It's a horribly embarrassing conversation to be on either side of. But I know if I had a problem like this, I'd rather be told. Like most people, I'm lucky to have had parents who made me wash regularly, wash my hair, use deodorant, change my clothes etc. While for some people, poor personal hygiene can be a sign of mental illness, for most it's just cluelessness. This guy having a girlfriend and a child doesn't mean anything. She might be as hygienically challenged as he is or she might not care. For most of us it'd be a deal breaker early on I would have thought.

Anyway, the bottom line is that he needs to be told. It's very hard to be tactful unfortunately because it is such a sensitive subject. Perhaps in time he will come to be glad that it was said.

Electric Sheep

The way things are in Ireland these days, he might well be homeless or sleeping in his car. Try to gently give him a chance to explain if this is the case. Are there shower facilities available at your workplace?

Anonymo

Don't envy the OP on this one. You've lots of suggestions on how to broach the subject (some not particularly tactful, i.e. the suggestion about others noticing the BO) but thought I'd give my 2 cents. As the boss you have a duty to your employees. This means all of them, including this guy with the bad smell. Do as the others suggested and ask him to your office for a chat in private. Just tell him that as part of the job you expect all staff to adhere to a certain level of hygiene and that right now he is falling short of that and you expect him to address it for the next day he's at work. If he asks then elaborate. But if he doesn't then leave it at that.

Lastly there was a suggestion that you send an email to all workers regarding hygiene. Do NOT do this right now. This will clearly be seen by the other employees as being motivated by this one particular person. This is the same as talking to him in front of them all about his BO and to me would be a form of bullying.

MayoAreMagic

Maybe next time you are nearby, and when nobody else is, ask him if he smells something? Pretend you think it is the bin, I bet he realises it's him and washes that evening.

jackofalltrades

To echo what others have said, sit him down privately and explain the problem to him.
Don't beat around the bush or make up any kind of story.
Maybe best to tell him at the end of the day, so if he's embarrassed he doesn't have to sit around all day.

hawkeyethenoo wrote: »

the last one is out of order, surely steps one and two are enough? embarrassing someone by sending them home to shower??

I worked beside a guy who smoked, didn't wash regularly and wore the same clothes days on end.
The sweat marks were clearly visible on his clothes.
Management had to speak to him twice about it and even then he didn't change his ways.
Some people just don't get it and need more extreme solutions.

miamee

If you are going to approach anyone about the issue, I'd advise approaching him first. If I were in his situation, I'd much rather someone say it to me directly than be going to my college/to HR/asking colleagues if they can smell something/sending obtuse memos or emails. It is possible to be tactful while being direct.

I think huggles85's advice is spot on.

Mrs OBumble

Electric Sheep wrote: »

The way things are in Ireland these days, he might well be homeless or sleeping in his car. Try to gently give him a chance to explain if this is the case. Are there shower facilities available at your workplace?

Sounds harsh, but this is not actually an employer's problem, and it can get quite difficult if an employer starts making allowance based on personal circumstances, or trying to fix an employee's problems. There won't be an easy workplace fix: even if there's a shower at work, there won't be a washing machine and dryer. And any other options involve the employer having too much input into the employer's personal life.

Bottom line, if you have a job, you are expected to turn up in a fit state for that job. For an office job, that means a clean body and clean clothes. How you do that it your problem, not your employers.

cocaliquid

Have a office meeting and do a slide show on personal Hygiene.

OP did you clean his keyboard before he started work. ??? :pac::pac::pac::pac:

http://www.bitrebels.com/lifestyle/beware-of-your-keyboard-hygiene/

twowheelsonly

Sunny Dayz wrote: »

I would ask him into the office for a little chat about how he has been getting on. Let him know how his work has been, give him positive feedback on it, any areas of possible improvement in his work. Keep it fairly casual, like you want to see how he is getting on so far.
Then say to him that you have noticed odour which may be offensive to other workers or customers. You really are going to have to bite the bullet and tell him straight, sending around memos won't work, if anything it will highlight the issue with other workers if this guy is really oblivious to it. Just let him know that high standards of personal hygiene must be maintained when working in an office space and that you have noticed that he has failed this. Suggest to him that he wears a cleanly washed and ironed shirt each day (or whatever the dress code is). Maybe go through with him in detail what the dress code is, he may have never worked in an office environment before (or even worked anywhere before).


To be honest, I think men have a poorer sense of smell than women. I'm not being sexist but I have noticed it with my husband and son. Also, it's actually difficult to smell yourself!

This.... ^^^^^^ .... All of it.

The most important things are probably to do it at the end of the day (call it a review!!) and DO NOT mention any other staff or customers noticing it or complaining about it. That will only serve to make him paranoid about it and probably completely shatter his confidence.

Have a good chat with him about it. You can sympathise with him to a degree about how tiring and stressful having a young child can be but that he needs to make time for himself as well and to stay on top of things. Find out how he's travelling to work - Walking ? Cycling ? Do you have access to showers in the workplace ?

Whilst some people might say that his personal situation isn't your problem I think that you have to bear in mind that he's young, on work placement and has a partner and young child so money is probably tight. Quite possible he doesn't own a whole lot of clothing and can't afford to run the washing machine every night and have the immersion or shower on every morning. Mention ALL of his clothing - the emphasis always seems to be on a clean shirt but I've found over the years that fellas will wear the same trousers for weeks on end without noticing how dirty and smelly they become because they don't really show the dirt.

Encouragement rather than chastisement will be the answer to this so if he does sort himself out be sure to compliment him on that later as well to keep the lines of communication on the subject open.

Enjoy the chat but make sure everything else is positive and that's the only negative or the effect will be lost entirely. Leave him know in no uncertain terms that it's absolutely not acceptable despite everything else about him being top notch and I'd almost guarantee that you'll get an instant result and still remain on good terms.

screamer

It may be that his clothes are not dried properly leading to what I call a wet dog smell. Students are particularly prone to this living in flats where there are no drying facilities or tumble dryers they can't afford to run.
If the smell is that bad you'll have to address it with him but you need to say you notice it and before anyone else does thought you'd give him a heads up. Don't say someone said x y x that's a recipe for disaster you need to own the feedback and present it in a I'm trying to help you out here way.

The Raptor

I think this comes down to parents where in the past, it was acceptable to shower once a week. When I got to my teenage years, I was given a can of deodorant on top of a once a week shower. I probably smelt without even realising it. Yuk yuk yuk.

There's no easy way to tell someone so just come out with it. Maybe to the college where they can tell the students and give them a lecture on personal hygiene before he comes back in the next week.

FAILSAFE 00

To avoid embarrassment set up a decontamination area just has you enter the office. Explain there has been a virus outbreak :P



I agree with others. You just have to bite the bullet and lay out the rules regarding hygiene and clothing.

Sunny Dayz wrote: »

I would ask him into the office for a little chat about how he has been getting on. Let him know how his work has been, give him positive feedback on it, any areas of possible improvement in his work. Keep it fairly casual, like you want to see how he is getting on so far.
Then say to him that you have noticed odour which may be offensive to other workers or customers. You really are going to have to bite the bullet and tell him straight, sending around memos won't work, if anything it will highlight the issue with other workers if this guy is really oblivious to it. Just let him know that high standards of personal hygiene must be maintained when working in an office space and that you have noticed that he has failed this. Suggest to him that he wears a cleanly washed and ironed shirt each day (or whatever the dress code is). Maybe go through with him in detail what the dress code is, he may have never worked in an office environment before (or even worked anywhere before).


To be honest, I think men have a poorer sense of smell than women. I'm not being sexist but I have noticed it with my husband and son. Also, it's actually difficult to smell yourself!

Perfect.

Mena

Neyite wrote: »

That's a bit sexist, don't you think? He's an adult responsible for his own personal hygiene, and more than capable of sticking a load of clothes into a washing machine and turning a knob. Or using a bit of shower gel. But yeah, blame a woman for his lack of personal hygiene. :rolleyes:

I read it differently. That is was a woman and child as opposed to mother or father or friend or boyfriend, people who care about you would tell you. It's not about her doing his clothes, and it's a bit sexist to presume that much.

spurious

Electric Sheep wrote:

The way things are in Ireland these days, he might well be homeless or sleeping in his car. Try to gently give him a chance to explain if this is the case. Are there shower facilities available at your workplace?

I would keep this in mind before having 'the chat' which you will have to have.

Whatever about personal washing facilities, many people do not have laundry facilities at home. Perhaps he washes himself but whacks on the same stinky clothes.

kimokanto

Odus fell down wrote:

Anyway, the bottom line is that ....

Heh heh, bottom line is that the place stinks of "bottom"
Bang of star, nasty.

jd

Mrs OBumble wrote:

School teachers may get away with not telling little darlings about problem because it may bruise their fragile little egos, but it doesn't fly in the workforce.

To be fair now, the problem isn't usually the kids but the sensitivities of the parents!

Neyite

Mena wrote: »

I read it differently. That is was a woman and child as opposed to mother or father or friend or boyfriend, people who care about you would tell you. It's not about her doing his clothes, and it's a bit sexist to presume that much.

The OP was "shocked" that the girlfriend "let him out like that"
I doubt the OP would have said that if the new guy flat shared with male friends or his brother or his dad. It sounds clear to me that its implied that the girlfriend should police his hygiene and attire before "letting" him leave the house. Maybe she has told him he stinks and he doesn't care. She signed up to look after the hygiene and attire of their child as a parent but never agreed to do it for a Man-Child I'm sure. Why should she?

If it were my partner, yeah, I'd tell him he is whiffy. But if he continues on into work in a smelly shirt, its not my problem or my responsibility. It's his. So his employer could be "shocked" all they like that I'd "let" him out of the house like that.

To me, saying the sentence is actually insulting for both genders - to women because its implied Wife-work, and to men because the vast majority of men that I know have very good standards of personal hygiene and neat attire.

ncmc

Neyite wrote: »

The OP was "shocked" that the girlfriend "let him out like that"
I doubt the OP would have said that if the new guy flat shared with male friends or his brother or his dad. It sounds clear to me that its implied that the girlfriend should police his hygiene and attire before "letting" him leave the house. Maybe she has told him he stinks and he doesn't care. She signed up to look after the hygiene and attire of their child as a parent but never agreed to do it for a Man-Child I'm sure. Why should she?

If it were my partner, yeah, I'd tell him he is whiffy. But if he continues on into work in a smelly shirt, its not my problem or my responsibility. It's his. So his employer could be "shocked" all they like that I'd "let" him out of the house like that.

To me, saying the sentence is actually insulting for both genders - to women because its implied Wife-work, and to men because the vast majority of men that I know have very good standards of personal hygiene and neat attire.

I think you’re reading in to the OP’s comments a bit much. I think she meant that living with a girlfriend rather than on his own or with flatmates means that, presumably, the GF gets physically closer to him than a flatmate would and presumably should be able to smell him and tell him that there’s a problem. I don’t think the OP meant that the GF should be washing his clothes etc, that’s not the way I picked up the comment anyway.

But you’re right, maybe the GF did say it to him and he ignored it. Or maybe they both have questionable hygiene and just don’t notice the smell any more. There could be all sorts of other reasons already mentioned, like mental issues, limited access to hot water etc, but at the end of the day, none of that is the OP’s problem. I would have sympathy for the worker, but if you can’t turn up to work in a presentable state, then you shouldn’t be working. There’s no way to deal with it other than the straightforward approach of saying it directly to him. It will be embarrassing for both parties, but will be worse for the worker the longer it goes unsaid because he will know that people have been talking about him for weeks. Bite the bullet OP and do it ASAP.

annascott

Robsweezie wrote: »

there could be a situation where the young lads confidence is damaged and he gets a complex after being told, maybe feels paranoid and decides to leave with the embarrassment. But I get the need to nip it in the bud. If it were me im not sure i would say anything, depends on the smell. is it overpowering?

unbelievably overpowering. I almost gagged as I tripped into my office. I would be concerned that the smell would cling to others' clothes and hair...