Harassment by dodgy plumber for large amounts money for very poor work

cars14

My sister had a 'Plumber' and his 'employee?' working on our bathroom. Before they started they orally agreed on 3000 euro for materials which she paid and 80 euro per day for labour.
After very doing poor work he looked for an additonal 5000.

He wouldn't accept the bank draft for 3000 euro she was giving him and would only take cash. Then he wouldn't provide a receipt. Now he wants 5000 euro more.

The work is very poor.
He was wiring a shower but turned out not to have any wiring/electricians qualifications.
He cut the floor tiles and put them on the walls. I fear they may fall off.
I don't know if the plumbing is correctly done.
He said two people could not be using the two showers at the same time due to a new law.
He hasn't finished the job.


We feel harassed. The guy he has working with him had a Limerick accent and twirling a drill in my direction when I asked for receipts. He rung my sister this morning.

What do you suggest we do?

Uh oh, know of a few people who have been caught in this situation. There is no hard and fast law, as it's hard to determine how someone will react...but the choice is pretty stark, either continue in the hope of appeasing them, or get onto a Solicitor to write to them, list the faults and say they will be pursued for the cost of rectifying any defects, invite them to respond within 7 days and point out that after that time you will engage another contractor. They may not like the thought of it going legal, queries about VAT numbers and the like.

KERSPLAT!

He's right about the shower situation. In most cases the draw from two showers is too much so a priority or non-priority contactor is needed meaning only one can be used at a time.

cars14

She got this 'Plumbers' sent out by a 'Plumber' who had been out to our house before with his daughter and who had got a job in the HSE. He said he was too busy with this HSE job to do the job and sent out this guy.

galljga1

KERSPLAT! wrote: »

He's right about the shower situation. In most cases the draw from two showers is too much so a priority or non-priority contactor is needed meaning only one can be used at a time.

Never heard of that. When did that come in?
I have two showers, both running off a 5 bar negative head pump. I have issues with not having enough water to service both even though I got a larger hot tank installed and an additional header tank. Not sure whether I run out of hot or cold but it shuts down sometimes when both showers are being used or even when one shower is used a number of times in succession. I keep meaning to get it sorted. Ant suggestions?

qo2cj1dsne8y4k

Take a shower together?

Turtle_

Contact revenue, get a better plumber in to check the work and cost any repairs including putting the correct tiles on the wall, make an official complaint to APHCI about him.

Then off to your solicitor to write a letter to him stating that the draft is full and final settlement, and should he continue to harass looking for monies not provided for in the contract, you will pursue him through legal channels.

KERSPLAT!

galljga1 wrote: »

Never heard of that. When did that come in?
I have two showers, both running off a 5 bar negative head pump. I have issues with not having enough water to service both even though I got a larger hot tank installed and an additional header tank. Not sure whether I run out of hot or cold but it shuts down sometimes when both showers are being used or even when one shower is used a number of times in succession. I keep meaning to get it sorted. Ant suggestions?

Electric showers. Nothing to do with hot water, it's the draw on electricity. You can have your DB main switch fuse replaced and probably the ESB main fuse too but in most cases you can't run two electric showers at the same time. I've no idea about power showers etc

Frynge

KERSPLAT! wrote: »

He's right about the shower situation. In most cases the draw from two showers is too much so a priority or non-priority contactor is needed meaning only one can be used at a time.

Other than the inclusion of circulating pumps what would be different in hotels that allow more than one shower going at the same time. Or my house for that matter.

Frynge

Frynge wrote: »

Other than the inclusion of circulating pumps what would be different in hotels that allow more than one shower going at the same time. Or my house for that matter.

See answer above.

KERSPLAT!

Frynge wrote: »

Other than the inclusion of circulating pumps what would be different in hotels that allow more than one shower going at the same time. Or my house for that matter.

As above, I was talking about electric showers because of the draw on electricity. Two showers will most likely blow your main switch fuse or the ESB main switch fuse. I've no idea about pumped showers etc.

Carpenter

80 per day labour are you taking the wee nobody who has served there time would be asking 80 per day.

Red Kev

cars14 wrote: »

We feel harassed. The guy he has working with him had a Limerick accent and twirling a drill in my direction when I asked for receipts. He rung my sister this morning.

What do you suggest we do?

Don't let them near the house again, especially drill boy. They've no right to enter it, if you tell them not to enter and they try, then call the Guards. If they've any tools give them back, but keep all the materials that they purchased with your deposit. Better still ring him up and tell him not to show his face.

The two of them haven't a bulls notion and they sound threatening so that's a good reason to dump them. Don't pay them anymore money, tell them to take you to court if they don't like it.

Get a proper plumber in to cost the job, the repairs etc. and put the money lost down to life experience. You could pursue them in the small claims court but I doubt it will go very far.

Ring a solicitor if you want legal advice.

fergiesfolly

We have electric and pump? showers because of that. Electrician wiring it said it's the only way and contractor said this was best compromise(one of each)
Regarding your plumber, if you're feeling threatened by him, call the Gardai.
You don't have to have to have proof of anything to make a complaint of this nature and the interested eye of the law on them might make them change their attitude.
CALL a solicitor. Going on details you've given, this guy is a complete chancer. There are laws in place to stop unqualified people taking on this sort of work.
And don't give him another penny.
Good luck

Shint0

cars14 wrote: »

He was wiring a shower but turned out not to have any wiring/electricians qualifications.

It's a criminal offence for anyone but a registered electrician to carry out electrical work. I have a lot of sympathy for you as I have had lots of problems with plumbers during house renovations.

fepper

Carpenter wrote: »

80 per day labour are you taking the wee nobody who has served there time would be asking 80 per day.

Would you be talking about €200 per day??

Dtp1979

What kind of quality do you expect when you pay someone 80 a day. Pay peanuts..... You know the rest

Dtp1979

fepper wrote: »

Would you be talking about €200 per day??

Try 300, maybe more. But that's a discussion for another day

Aint Eazy Being Cheezy

fepper wrote: »

Would you be talking about €200 per day??

Usually priced by the job, not the day. Unless you want your pants pulled down.

Shint0

I agree about the €80 a day but in my case where I ran into problems with plumbers I was paying the proper going rate after getting a few quotes but still had lots of hassle with plumbers during house renovations. In the end the plumber that I found to sort out the issues was actually the cheapest, most reasonable and most experienced. So price isn't always the issue.

Flippyfloppy

Sounds like he wanted it to be a cash job until he was asked for a receipt, then upped the price to include VAT (and more)

qo2cj1dsne8y4k

I'd happily hire someone for 80 euro for a day if they came wearing snickers pants

KERSPLAT!

LexieOnRale wrote: »

I'd happily hire someone for 80 euro for a day if they came wearing snickers pants

Can I just stand around in snickers or do I have to actually do work...?

fepper

Jack of all tradesmen expect to be paid as if they are professionals in their work and most are chancers om afraid

qo2cj1dsne8y4k

KERSPLAT! wrote: »

Can I just stand around in snickers or do I have to actually do work...?

Depends on the view K.
Lots of bending over and you should be grand

ct5amr2ig1nfhp

Not strictly true. Small jobs can be done by a non REC individual.

"Although it is not a legal requirement that these minor electrical works be completed by a Registered Electrical Contractor, it is important that minor electrical works are in compliance with the National Wiring Rules and from a safety perspective it is important that these works only be completed by competent individuals."

Get a report from a registered plumber and electrician. Get them to quote for repair works and a separate quote to finish the job (the report/quote will most likely be free). You'll have a better idea of your options once you have that report.

Shint0 wrote: »

It's a criminal offence for anyone but a registered electrician to carry out electrical work....

Poor Uncle Tom

LexieOnRale wrote: »

Depends on the view K.
Lots of bending over and you should be grand

durty burdie.....


OP get the works carried out surveyed and detail whats done, what needs to be done and all associated costs, then trot of to your Brief, job done....

ED E

Quick call to Revenue Commissioners to point them in his direction. If he's going to act the maggot then its about time he was audited IMO.

Shint0

Edison White Seller wrote: »

Not strictly true. Small jobs can be done by a non REC individual.

"Although it is not a legal requirement that these minor electrical works be completed by a Registered Electrical Contractor, it is important that minor electrical works are in compliance with the National Wiring Rules and from a safety perspective it is important that these works only be completed by competent individuals."

Get a report from a registered plumber and electrician. Get them to quote for repair works and a separate quote to finish the job (the report/quote will most likely be free). You'll have a better idea of your options once you have that report.

Does minor not just apply to changing light sockets and switches? Anything involving water and electricity should not come under minor works.

Skylinehead

Mod: Moved to Consumer Issues, please read their charter before posting.

ct5amr2ig1nfhp

I would assume that installing a shower is not minor work. But I was only making the point that small works can be done by a handyman type.

Would be interested to know if installing a shower or shower pump is "minor".

Shint0 wrote: »

Does minor not just apply to changing light sockets and switches? Anything involving water and electricity should not come under minor works.

Dtp1979

He can wire the 3 wires into the shower, but he cannot wire it back to the fuseboard or go near it

Joe1919

cars14 wrote: »

.......Before they started they orally agreed on 3000 euro for materials which she paid and 80 euro per day for labour.....

I am just wondering what the legal situation is here .i.e. Could they claim that they are casual employees of herself (because they are paid by the day) and hence have limited responsibility compared to a contractor?

Ash.J.Williams

cars14 wrote: »

My sister had a 'Plumber' and his 'employee?' working on our bathroom. Before they started they orally agreed on 3000 euro for materials which she paid and 80 euro per day for labour.
After very doing poor work he looked for an additonal 5000.

He wouldn't accept the bank draft for 3000 euro she was giving him and would only take cash. Then he wouldn't provide a receipt. Now he wants 5000 euro more.

The work is very poor.
He was wiring a shower but turned out not to have any wiring/electricians qualifications.
He cut the floor tiles and put them on the walls. I fear they may fall off.
I don't know if the plumbing is correctly done.
He said two people could not be using the two showers at the same time due to a new law.
He hasn't finished the job.


We feel harassed. The guy he has working with him had a Limerick accent and twirling a drill in my direction when I asked for receipts. He rung my sister this morning.

What do you suggest we do?

Isn't it a jailing offence for unqualified trades men to touch wiring?

Joe1919

Edison White Seller wrote: »

I would assume that installing a shower is not minor work. But I was only making the point that small works can be done by a handyman type.

Would be interested to know if installing a shower or shower pump is "minor".

I dont think the new shower is a minor job because it requires the fitting of a 'protective device' to the distribution board which is classified as 'restricted' and not allowed.

Minor electrical works includes the replacement of an electrical accessory such as a light switch, the replacement or relocation of a light fitting where the existing circuit is retained, the provision of an additional socket to an existing radial circuit, or electrical works which do not require the issuance of a completion certificate under section 9D of the Act.

I presume you (or a plumber) can replace an existing shower unit that has already been wired as this would come under the heading of 'replacement of an electrical accessory' and would therefore be a minor electrical work.