EGR Failure - Volkwagon

Kingkong

Hey Guys;

Has anyone got there EGR vavles replaced by the VW Goodwill Program recently?

I have a 2011 VW Golf 1.6TDI, I bought in June for a non main VW Dealership. The car has 117KM now on it.

I brought the car down to MSL Motor VW and they confirmed it needs a new EGR Vavle and quoted me 1,350 for the job.

I was given the impression most of the cost would be covered by VW under the Goodwill Program.

I got a callback yesterday saying they wouldnt cover it and MSL could not tell me why they arent told the reason why.

I asked about how I could follow this up and they told me to contact VW Ireland which I did. They told me it was nothing to do with them and is MSL decision as they own the process for these claims.

In brief neither MSL/VW Ireland cannot give me a reasonable explaination why they arent covering part of the cost even though plenty of other cars are being fixed with the same issue.

Not only that my car falls under the emmisions issue aswell so you think they would not try to upset existing customer they already lied to!!

Any advice?

grogi

Kingkong wrote: »

Any advice?

Goodwill is what it is - a good will. No legal grounds on your side... It is in discretion of VW to help you out.

Take the EGR out, clean it with EGR cleaner... Give it a good bath in petrol... If it does not help, try to source one from scrap yard...

But please, don't slowly kill us all by blocking it permanently... And think if you want to buy another VAG...

mickdw

We had it done on a 3 year old passat 1.6tdi and it was covered apart from 170 quid. That was bought new and had only about 30k miles on it though.

If its the common issue, its not a blocked up egr, it a faulty design.

honreal

Can we make use of the Goodwill prgram here in Ireland? I cannot find anything online bar the american website.

Stallingrad

Try another dealer? Did you buy from MSL?

R.O.R

If it's still driving, take it in to Fosters in Sandyford. We've had quite a bit of Goodwill from them on EGR failures.

almostover

€1350 for an EGR valve replacement is extortionate. Absolute madness. Tell VW to stick their EGR valve where the sun don't shine.

Seriously these EGR's can be got as an aftermarket part for far less money than at a VW dealership. Here's a reconditioned one for about €200 with shipping. Any decent indie mechanic would have the whole job done for less than €500.

My advice is to blank the EGR off and get a reputable tuner to update the ECU. KC systems is Watergrasshill in Cork does top work. Did my EGR delete on a Vectra 1.9CDTi. Cost me €10 for a blanking plate an €100 for ECU work. Car will run better as it will always be burning fresh air and you'll never have to worry about the EGR again.

I really don't care what route you take but for the love of all that is good don't let those criminals at VW fix it. Once a car is out of warranty don't ever bring it back to a main dealer. Speak to people in your locality, there will be a trusted indie mechanic who will be invaluable to you in the future.

grogi

almostover wrote: »

My advice is to blank the EGR off and get a reputable tuner to update the ECU. KC systems is Watergrasshill in Cork does top work. Did my EGR delete on a Vectra 1.9CDTi. Cost me €10 for a blanking plate an €100 for ECU work. Car will run better as it will always be burning fresh air and you'll never have to worry about the EGR again.

Plus produce dozens times more NOx and increase the temp inside the cylinders...

We need to stop allowing this kind of behaviour and start thinking about the environment...

almostover

I agree with you that the environment should be priority but when Joe Soap like myself who relies on a car to drive to work is faced with a €110 repair to get himself back on the road or to hit financial ruin with a €1000 repair then I'm afraid the environment comes out second in that battle each and every time. Not to mention the possible failure of the new EGR in the future.

Have you ever seen the inside of an intake manifold on a diesel equipped with an EGR? I cleaned mine when I blanked the EGR. You wouldn't see the likes on a steam engine such was the level of soot. An engine runs best on clean air. Exhaust gas degrades your engine oil faster too and leads to higher fuel consumption as there is less oxygen in exhaust gas to give a full combustion of the diesel. The EGR's are only effective when the engine is cold too. Most will close when engine is up to temp and I'd imagine are only reducing NOx emissions on start up & idle. EGR's are a disaster and are only there to get a car through it's initial emissions test on launch of the model under strict lab testing environments. In real world driving I'd hazard a guess that they do little to reduce emissions.

As for cylinder temperatures my car has done 50k miles of mixed driving without one single issue. Engine temperature is always in the 85-90 degree zone and the car flies through the NCT smoke test and never emits big plumes of black soot like you see from diesels with EGR trouble. A reputable engine modder will ensure the ECU has been reconfigured to handle the slightly higher cylinder temps.

Anyway hopefully this new Tesla can show that an affordable electric car is achievable. That is where the future lies no doubt, both from an environmental standpoint and a machincal reliability one too.

almostover

OP things have gone a little off point to arguments of the merits of emission control technologies on modern diesel engines.

My advice for your predicament is to get a second opinion from a trusted indie garage man. Ask him about replacing the EGR and also the blanking route. The main dealer approach to repair is just to replace full systems without ever diagnosing the actual fault. They prey on the mechanical inexperience of the motorist in order to make profits.

As an anecdote, my fathers 15 year old Toyota Hilux developed an issue with the auotmatic gearbox where it wouldn't select the top gear. Went to main dealer was told a reconditioned gearbox was required costing 2k plus. Local indie plugged into ECU, 1 solenoid was faulty. Cost of repair about €250, solenoid could be fitted with the gearbox in the jeep. Father did it himself.

shietpilot

almostover wrote: »

Local indie plugged into ECU, 1 solenoid was faulty. Cost of repair about €250, solenoid could be fitted with the gearbox in the jeep. Father did it himself.

This is exactly why the dealers don't mess about. Why should they use their equipment and diagnose a fault only for the owner to do the cheap fix themselves?

Kingkong

Hey Guys;

Thanks for all the advice.

Agreed by no way is MSl getting that money of me. I may try Fosters alright.

I'll get the EGR replaced, the car is only 5 years old and Im not messing with ECU etc...

If anyone know of an indie meanchic around ht etallght area they trust do PM me.

Thanks Guys

mickdw

Dont write off the goodwill until you try another dealer.
Story of my issues with audi & goodwill - I bought Audi new from Dealer, serviced it at same dealer etc all the time. Go back for goodwill at 3.5 years on window regulators that are a known fault. Service guy comes back and says there is zero goodwill available on it.
I call up another dealer who I had neither bought off or serviced at and immediately over the phone he said he would defo get something on that repair and the next day he came back with 75% off parts and labour.
I called back to original guy and he coughed and stuttered etc and said they must have claimed under a different code but I believe he didnt try or want to process it at all and thought I would cough up the full amount.
The moral of the story - Its worth shopping around

micks_address

mickdw wrote: »

Dont write off the goodwill until you try another dealer.
Story of my issues with audi & goodwill - I bought Audi new from Dealer, serviced it at same dealer etc all the time. Go back for goodwill at 3.5 years on window regulators that are a known fault. Service guy comes back and says there is zero goodwill available on it.
I call up another dealer who I had neither bought off or serviced at and immediately over the phone he said he would defo get something on that repair and the next day he came back with 75% off parts and labour.
I called back to original guy and he coughed and stuttered etc and said they must have claimed under a different code but I believe he didnt try or want to process it at all and thought I would cough up the full amount.
The moral of the story - Its worth shopping around

My dad tried to get skoda to replace it in his 2010 octavia and they wouldn't cover it.. Seems like it's a common issue with vw engine of 2010 / 11

shietpilot

I know this is really not the place to be arguing about EGR valves but I found this article and it was a very good read:
http://www.ijerd.com/paper/vol2-issue11/A02110106.pdf

It outlines the effects on engine wear caused by EGR valves and also how the recirculated gasses contaminate engine oil making it lubricate the engine poorly compared to an engine without an EGR valve.

Special Circumstances

shietpilot wrote: »

I know this is really not the place to be arguing about EGR valves but I found this article and it was a very good read:
http://www.ijerd.com/paper/vol2-issue11/A02110106.pdf

It outlines the effects on engine wear caused by EGR valves and also how the recirculated gasses contaminate engine oil making it lubricate the engine poorly compared to an engine without an EGR valve.

Nobody made ye buy a horrible polluting engine just for da chape tax!

shietpilot

Special Circumstances wrote: »

Nobody made ye buy a horrible polluting engine just for da chape tax!

No smoke no poke hai

ml100

Egr valve went on my 2011 golf when it was 25 months old and 18k km, i.e. One month out of warranty, vw dealer had to push vw for them to cover full cost which they did, no issues since 60k km later , I think the part was redesigned

Audioslaven

go on Facebook for VW and post up about your issue and how pissed you are. Let them see and everyone else what it is like to own a VW with these common issues.

They have enough of bad press as it is. I will say you may get some traction

clogher71

It's case by case with vw for egr valves, there is no set rule who gets goodwill or not. I have heard bad stories about some of the re con ones. The dealers have to replace all associated pipes/gaskets which would be in the region €100, a lot of indies don't change these, I don't know where you would stand if the egr failed again and gaskets were not fitted. The job should be in the region of €800-€1000 depending on their hourly labour rate. VW will just weather the storm on this one like they did with the 'BXE' engines. A guy hounded them on facebook when his engine failed, they still did nothing for him.

Audioslaven

1k for the egr is a joke. I never understand the obsession with the vag brand in Ireland and I would be hopping this piece down the road and onto the lovers and make sure to stay away from them in future.

Blank the thing off and be done with it.

shietpilot

Audioslaven wrote: »

1k for the egr is a joke. I never understand the obsession with the vag brand in Ireland and I would be hopping this piece down the road and onto the lovers and make sure to stay away from them in future.

Blank the thing off and be done with it.

I don't even know why the valves are so expensive. It's not exactly ground breaking technology. It's a simple mechanism that can open or close a valve.

Another one of those cash making devices by the sounds of things

grogi

shietpilot wrote: »

I don't even know why the valves are so expensive. It's not exactly ground breaking technology. It's a simple mechanism that can open or close a valve.

Another one of those cash making devices by the sounds of things

Very high temperature they operate under combined with electronic control with loads of on/off cycles.

shietpilot

grogi wrote: »

Very high temperature they operate under combined with electronic control with loads of on/off cycles.

Still doesn't explain why it's so expensive.

grogi

shietpilot wrote: »

Still doesn't explain why it's so expensive.

Make one cheaper... You'll make a fortune...

Audioslaven

grogi wrote: »

Make one cheaper... You'll make a fortune...

The valves are probably cheap already and VW are buying them for feck all. Its just VW are charging an arm and leg for it on the mark up.

I have the 1.6HDI engine and the value is around 150 - 200 euro afaik which is a big difference.

Maybe VW should make/source a proper one and not one that causes some many issues.

shietpilot

grogi wrote: »

Make one cheaper... You'll make a fortune...

Spurious manufacturers already are!

colm_mcm

I would say the service history on the car would have a bearing on whether goodwill would be given.

pred racer

shietpilot wrote: »

Still doesn't explain why it's so expensive.

grogi wrote: »

Make one cheaper... You'll make a fortune...

The Vw EGRs are not just a valve and a solenoid like on some other cars, I think they are part of a much larger assembly/manifold, hence the price. (Open to correction, but that's what I was told) ford ones are the same!

Edit: in nearly 20 yrs of driving turbo daysuls I have never had an egr problem (did the older xud's etc even have them?)
Solution, drive it on to fook

John T Carroll

pred racer wrote: »

The Vw EGRs are not just a valve and a solenoid like on some other cars, I think they are part of a much larger assembly/manifold, hence the price. (Open to correction, but that's what I was told) ford ones are the same!

Edit: in nearly 20 yrs of driving turbo daysuls I have never had an egr problem (did the older xud's etc even have them?)
Solution, drive it on to fook

The EGR Cooler and valve are all one assembly now from around 2009/2010 I think.

grogi

John T Carroll wrote: »

The EGR Cooler and valve are all one assembly now from around 2009/2010 I think.

That explains a lot. High repair cost by design. Yet people keep buying VW, despite the emission scandal, dodgy warranty claims and cherries like this. This company is built on a misinformation at best...

pablo128

shietpilot wrote: »

This is exactly why the dealers don't mess about. Why should they use their equipment and diagnose a fault only for the owner to do the cheap fix themselves?

Although the same dealer probably sold the customer the same solenoid?

If you think about it, in your view they shouldn't sell spare parts to the general public so.

shietpilot

pablo128 wrote: »

Although the same dealer probably sold the customer the same solenoid?

This is exactly why they do not diagnose faults for free.

pablo128 wrote: »

If you think about it, in your view they shouldn't sell spare parts to the general public so.

Nothing wrong with selling spare parts to the public. It's a completely different scenario when someone with a problem with their cars brings it to a dealership, expects to get free diagnosis (by getting a mechanic to have a look or by using a computer) and then f*ck off and fix it themselves.

Replacing parts on a car is very easy, most people can do it. Finding the problem is the hard bit!

pablo128

shietpilot wrote: »

This is exactly why they do not diagnose faults for free.



Nothing wrong with selling spare parts to the public. It's a completely different scenario when someone with a problem with their cars brings it to a dealership, expects to get free diagnosis (by getting a mechanic to have a look or by using a computer) and then f*ck off and fix it themselves.

Replacing parts on a car is very easy, most people can do it. Finding the problem is the hard bit!

You're ok then with the dealer wanting to replace the whole gearbox, when it didn't need to be replaced?

As far as I know, most main dealers charge a fee for plugging in to diagnose a problem.

shietpilot

pablo128 wrote: »

You're ok then with the dealer wanting to replace the whole gearbox, when it didn't need to be replaced?

As far as I know, most main dealers charge a fee for plugging in to diagnose a problem.

You're going into a totally new point now. Have a look at my first post and see what I highlighted.

Kingkong

Hey Guys;

Just a quick update.

I got a second opinion from another VW Garage and they quoted me 1,200 for the fix. Still no Goodwill being offered.

From my own research and above posts, I belive this is a complex job and no sure if its worth risking someone else doing the job if there not experienced doing this.

Its way to expensive though.

grogi

Kingkong wrote: »

Hey Guys;

Just a quick update.

I got a second opinion from another VW Garage and they quoted me 1,200 for the fix. Still no Goodwill being offered.

From my own research and above posts, I belive this is a complex job and no sure if its worth risking someone else doing the job if there not experienced doing this.

Its way to expensive though.

It is not a trivial fix, but by no means it is complex or requiring special skills, tools or environment. It just seems labour intensive and as explained above the part itself might be expensive too.

A good cleaning of the EGR valve (although taking it out and putting back will cost the same as fitting a new one) might solve your problem. Decision is down to the cost of the part alone.

Get a quote from some independent VAG garage - they would have seen it and will have a very good idea how intensive it is and what a good fix will be. In majority of cases the dealer will only suggest fitting a new part.

George Dalton

Cleaning it is a total waste of time. Non genuine valves are a total waste of time.

For supply and fit of a genuine VW valve and associated parts in an independent garage you'd be looking at €650-700. The part is covered by the VW 2 year warranty.

Kingkong

Hey;

So I found out today as part of getting the part changed , the ECU will need a software update that can only be done through VW. If the EGR is changed and software is not updated the car will not start.

pablo128

George Dalton wrote: »

Cleaning it is a total waste of time. Non genuine valves are a total waste of time.

For supply and fit of a genuine VW valve and associated parts in an independent garage you'd be looking at €650-700. The part is covered by the VW 2 year warranty.

George if you don't mind, what's your view on blanking them off?

Special Circumstances

Ja, das ist gut.



It's only a gimmick to get them out the door with some kinda emissions credibility, no one really expects you to keep egr, dpf, cat, fap fitted and functional. Emissions checks are for evil petrols. You have the backing of the EU and the green movement in general on this, you're golden. Removing these emissions controls will probably reduce your CO2 emissions and make your car more economical. Jobs a good un as far as the Greens are concerned.

George Dalton

Kingkong wrote: »

Hey;

So I found out today as part of getting the part changed , the ECU will need a software update that can only be done through VW. If the EGR is changed and software is not updated the car will not start.

That is absolutely not the case.

Agent_47

Kingkong wrote: »

Hey Guys;

Just a quick update.

I got a second opinion from another VW Garage and they quoted me 1,200 for the fix. Still no Goodwill being offered.

From my own research and above posts, I belive this is a complex job and no sure if its worth risking someone else doing the job if there not experienced doing this.

Its way to expensive though.

Firstly I do hope you did not pick up our 2011 VW 1.6D as that issue you have is precisely why we traded it in for a 151D 1.2 TSI petrol. We had an Inde price a replacement EGR and 3 to 4 hours work for circa €850. Madness, so we traded it in as it had the usual items coming up for replacement. You should at least get VW to provide a goodwill gesture where they pay for the part and you the labour. I got such on a broken window winding mechanism years ago.
If you do change the part you should be okay for some time as they are a nice drive.

PukkaStukka

Does anyone know if the newer releases of this valve are modified or redesigned? Is there a point in time after which the problem has been fixed at the production line so that cars sold from then on are free from these EGR faults?

ItsLikeThis

Almost everyone I know with the b7 passat including myself had this problem. I got no goodwill from VW but I did from the independent I bought from. A few weeks later my friend who bought from a VW dealer did get goodwill.

Kingkong

George Dalton wrote: »

That is absolutely not the case.

Hi Geroge,

2 independent Mechanices told me they needed to bring it to a VW dealer for the software update once the new part is fitted.

I can only go on what these guys are telling me. It's costing 1,100 to get it fixed with VW Authoriused Dealer which is 100 more expensive than others have quoted.

I emailed VW Ireland about it in any case.

colm_mcm

To be fair to George, id say he's done a fair few of them, his garage is a VW specialist so chances are he knows what he's on about.

George Dalton

Kingkong wrote: »

Hi Geroge,

2 independent Mechanices told me they needed to bring it to a VW dealer for the software update once the new part is fitted.

I can only go on what these guys are telling me. It's costing 1,100 to get it fixed with VW Authoriused Dealer which is 100 more expensive than others have quoted.

Well now a third independent mechanic has told you that you can get it fitted for €650-700 and that the software update is not really necessary. The reason these parts fail is not due to software, it is a combination of bad design and poor quality.

George Dalton

colm_mcm wrote: »

To be fair to George, id say he's done a fair few of them, his garage is a VW specialist so chances are he knows what he's on about.

We've done one or two alright :pac:

shietpilot

I wonder if this "software updates" changes how frequently the valve operates, or if it maps it out completely :pac:

George Dalton

shietpilot wrote: »

I wonder if this "software updates" changes how frequently the valve operates, or if it maps it out completely :pac:

I would imagine that it tweaks how the valve operates and maybe includes a setting to move the actuator through its full range of movement regularly.

It doesn't change the fact that the valve is sh1t. They have 3 separate problems in the same part. Some of them just fail electrically. Some leak coolant and some wear out the roller on the actuator.