can work union conduct a ballot vote the effects staff&not include non union members

lifeandtimes

Hi All,

Currently there is a situation at work.

The company i work for has over 1000 people employees in different roles in different areas.

At the moment the union for our company have issued a notice that a ballot will be conducted.

Our employer has agreed a slight pay increase of 2.5% however this comes with the terms that all people who are seconded in a role will return to their previous roles and their work will be outsourced to a different country.

The voting takes place for over a week, however the union have advised that only people in the union can vote. A massive portion of these people who are effected are not in the union and are not allowed vote.

Im curious as to if this is allowed.

surely if a major change in work will effect you, you should be allowed vote in it? or maybe its correct and should be allowed to union member as the union negotiated the terms?

Can anyone let me know thanks

whomitconcerns

It's not a company vote. It's a union vote only affecting the union members. So not you, so you of course can't vote

lifeandtimes

whomitconcerns wrote: »

It's not a company vote. It's a union vote only affecting the union members. So not you, so you of course can't vote

Hi, it will effect me though, its effecting the entire company

Little CuChulainn

The union only represents its members. The company have to deal with non union employees separately.

Uncle Ben

lifeandtimes wrote: »

Hi, it will effect me though, its effecting the entire company

You don't have to join a union , however if your company recognises them and you are on the outside I'd hazard a guess that they'll pay more attention to them.

lifeandtimes

Little CuChulainn wrote: »

The union only represents its members. The company have to deal with non union employees separately.

thanks thats what i thought.

It seems unfair that only union member get to vote however this will effect everyone across the board, there is no mention and im sure there wont be any talks with other employees who arent union member.

This will be voted on and if it is agreed it will effect everyone and the change will take place

GM228

lifeandtimes wrote: »

Hi All,

Currently there is a situation at work.

The company i work for has over 1000 people employees in different roles in different areas.

At the moment the union for our company have issued a notice that a ballot will be conducted.

Our employer has agreed a slight pay increase of 2.5% however this comes with the terms that all people who are seconded in a role will return to their previous roles and their work will be outsourced to a different country.

The voting takes place for over a week, however the union have advised that only people in the union can vote. A massive portion of these people who are effected are not in the union and are not allowed vote.

Im curious as to if this is allowed.

surely if a major change in work will effect you, you should be allowed vote in it? or maybe its correct and should be allowed to union member as the union negotiated the terms?

Can anyone let me know thanks

You mention being moved from a seconded position to your original position,

Secondments usually mean temporary, although they can last any amount of time.

Your employer is simply undoing a "temporary" position, although there can be issues with amended terms and conditions AFAIK with secondments.

But it could be a case of your employer simply returning you to your position as per your contact of employment.

I suppose it all depends on conditions (if any) specifically associated with the secondment.

28064212

Your employer can't change your contract without your agreement. The union members (assuming the vote is passed) are agreeing to the changes to their contract.

If it's not a contractual change, then the company can unilaterally make the change anyway.

Victor

The law has changed in the last year and as I understand it, you are entitled to be consulted on such a change.

There is longstanding law that non-union staff can't be treated less favourably than union staff although the criteria for that might be limited. This situation sounds like the union is throwing non-union staff under the bus.

lifeandtimes

28064212 wrote: »

Your employer can't change your contract without your agreement. The union members (assuming the vote is passed) are agreeing to the changes to their contract.

If it's not a contractual change, then the company can unilaterally make the change anyway.

yeah but the word is that the company where going to make this change and that all they have to do is give us 30 days notice before any change is implemented which is what they were going to do anyway, so the union are putting a vote through for this.

My contract states they can make changes to the contract provided we are given 30 days notice etc.

Im just a bit unsure as to why people who are being effected cant vote but the word that is being put out is it was gonna happen anyway with the above stipulation

CIARAN_BOYLE

lifeandtimes wrote: »

yeah but the word is that the company where going to make this change and that all they have to do is give us 30 days notice before any change is implemented which is what they were going to do anyway, so the union are putting a vote through for this.

My contract states they can make changes to the contract provided we are given 30 days notice etc.

Im just a bit unsure as to why people who are being effected cant vote but the word that is being put out is it was gonna happen anyway with the above stipulation

because the union can organise industrial action in protest and are voting whether or not they want to.

GM228

lifeandtimes wrote: »

yeah but the word is that the company where going to make this change and that all they have to do is give us 30 days notice before any change is implemented which is what they were going to do anyway, so the union are putting a vote through for this.

My contract states they can make changes to the contract provided we are given 30 days notice etc.

Im just a bit unsure as to why people who are being effected cant vote but the word that is being put out is it was gonna happen anyway with the above stipulation

Some people can't vote because they are not in the union, it's a union organised vote which is for union members, not an employer organised vote. The union can't ballot non union members as it does not represent them, nor is it legal for them to ballot non union members. If you want a vote join the union!

If it's in the terms your contact can be changed then surely there's no real issue, however my guess is the union have an issue and want to put it to their members.

lifeandtimes

lifeandtimes wrote: »

yeah but the word is that the company where going to make this change and that all they have to do is give us 30 days notice before any change is implemented which is what they were going to do anyway, so the union are putting a vote through for this.

My contract states they can make changes to the contract provided we are given 30 days notice etc.

Im just a bit unsure as to why people who are being effected cant vote but the word that is being put out is it was gonna happen anyway with the above stipulation

If my understanding is correct, you want the benefits of being part of the Union with out being part of the Union?

whomitconcerns

lifeandtimes wrote: »

Hi, it will effect me though, its effecting the entire company

Their vote won't affect you at all. The companies decision is the companies. Unions vote is unions.

If the company was voting and for some reason you were excluded then yes it would be an issue

lifeandtimes

GM228 wrote: »

Some people can't vote because they are not in the union, it's a union organised vote which is for union members, not an employer organised vote. The union can't ballot non union members as it does not represent them, nor is it legal for them to ballot non union members. If you want a vote join the union!

If it's in the terms your contact can be changed then surely there's no real issue, however my guess is the union have an issue and want to put it to their members.

It might be better for me to clear this up.

The ballot will effect everyone in the company, the fact is the union are urging people to vote yes to the terms, get an increase of 2.5 percent and the people who are seconded will be moved back to their original roles and their jobs they were seconded too will be outsourced.

I am effected by this even though i cannot vote, this will be implemented across the company. I am not looking for the benefits of this or anything, i am not asking for anything but i am being effected by this without a say so in this.

Let me also clarify i am not seconded so i wont be moved,however i will receive an increase whethere i agree or not but my issue is i should have a vote in what is happening company wide yet the union say only members cant vote

Little CuChulainn

lifeandtimes wrote: »

It might be better for me to clear this up.

The ballot will effect everyone in the company, the fact is the union are urging people to vote yes to the terms, get an increase of 2.5 percent and the people who are seconded will be moved back to their original roles and their jobs they were seconded too will be outsourced.

I am effected by this even though i cannot vote, this will be implemented across the company. I am not looking for the benefits of this or anything, i am not asking for anything but i am being effected by this without a say so in this.

Your contract will be changed because you do not have any negotiating power with your employer. Union members are in a better position to negotiate because they present a unite front. This is the benefit of being in a union. It's up to you to seek alternative contract changes from management if that's what you wish but you won't have much luck. It's not up to the union to consider your position as a non-union member.

28064212

lifeandtimes wrote: »

Let me also clarify i am not seconded so i wont be moved,however i will receive an increase whethere i agree or not but my issue is i should have a vote in what is happening company wide yet the union say only members cant vote

The union are only voting on whether their members agree to these terms. If the union votes no, the company can choose to press ahead anyway (assuming the new terms are not illegal or violating your work contract). The company's problem is that the union may strike if they don't get agreement.

You can "strike" if you don't agree to the changes. However, the company are unlikely to care, and you're likely to find yourself dismissed. The company only care about the union because they will find themselves in trouble if there are suddenly dozens or hundreds of workers striking at the same time

GM228

I wonder have these changes been "negotiated" with the union, if so would they be considered a collective agreement.

It's worth noting that those who are not members of the union are not bound by a collective agreement, unless it is a specific term and condition of all employees employment, that they be bound by union agreement in the workplace, or by virtue of custom and practice in the workplace, it has become a term and condition of the non-unionised employees’ employment (i.e. if they have always acted as though they are bound by union decisions/ballots).

But there's something else to consider, based on what is proposed is it fair to say that the only contractual term to be changed is the pay rise (I doubt many would say no to that), whilst the rest of the changes are changes to work practices? Afterall if your on secondment your original nature of your employment is most likey already in your contract.

It's also worth noting if collective agreements are allowed for in the contract.

hardCopy

The company have decided on a course of action, the union are now having their own vote to decide on their reaction.

You now have to do the same for yourself.

You could accept the change, protest against it, leave the company or go on strike yourself. A one person strike or protest will obviously be more difficult as you won't have any strike pay or advice from the union and have very little clout on your own.

If you wanted to influence the union decision you could have joined and made your objections known at union meetings, in addition to having a vote.

As a non-union employee any negotiations with your employer are your own responsibility and the only power you have is based on your perceived value as an individual to the company. (Assuming the employers actions are legal).