Irish driver behaviour in traffic actually causing jams

H3llR4iser

lawred2 wrote: »

nah not having that - It's not a Cork thing. It's an Irish thing. I see it everywhere.

For starters; have you ever travelled on the M7 in Kildare?

Yes, plenty of times, not comparable. You might see it everywhere, but Cork takes the prize with a big lead, especially the N40/N25 for some reason - actually if you go to the dual carriageway towards Blarney, it's not as bad as on the South Ring. Not sure why.

ironclaw

I make no apologises for passively blocking people from taking an exit if they are being cute about it. Classic example is the N7 / M50 interchange. Coming from Kildare into Dublin, if you ain't in the left or middle lane to take the M50 by the last set of signs telling you which lane to be in, I ain't letting you in. You may go down the Long Mile Rd and learn to be more observant, but of course, its not that you weren't observant you'd just thought you'd floor it up the left (In an 80km/h zone) and try skip some traffic that bothered getting into lane.

Same thing if you are coming off the M50 to take the N7, if your not in the left lane by the time the slip rolls around, forget it. Head onto the Long Mile or take a spin to the next M50 junction. I really and truly don't care. Everyone else got in lane and their are plenty of opportunities to merge a long, long time before the junction.

And before anyone jumps on saying its dangerous, its far more dangerous, in my book, to be jumping in at the last moment, cutting people off and hitting the brakes because you are approaching at Mach 1 to save yourself 10 seconds. Its completely unnecessary. I'll maintain my safe gap with the car in front, and that's all I'll be maintaining. Tough luck that you don't fit.

draiochtanois

This post has been deleted.

lawred2

ironclaw wrote: »

I make no apologises for passively blocking people from taking an exit if they are being cute about it. Classic example is the N7 / M50 interchange. Coming from Kildare into Dublin, if you ain't in the left or middle lane to take the M50 by the last set of signs telling you which lane to be in, I ain't letting you in. You may go down the Long Mile Rd and learn to be more observant, but of course, its not that you weren't observant you'd just thought you'd floor it up the left (In an 80km/h zone) and try skip some traffic that bothered getting into lane.

Same thing if you are coming off the M50 to take the N7, if your not in the left lane by the time the slip rolls around, forget it. Head onto the Long Mile or take a spin to the next M50 junction. I really and truly don't care. Everyone else got in lane and their are plenty of opportunities to merge a long, long time before the junction.

And before anyone jumps on saying its dangerous, its far more dangerous, in my book, to be jumping in at the last moment, cutting people off and hitting the brakes because you are approaching at Mach 1 to save yourself 10 seconds. Its completely unnecessary. I'll maintain my safe gap with the car in front, and that's all I'll be maintaining. Tough luck that you don't fit.

will you make 'no apologies' if your blocking results in a car accident? Someone killed?

Is being so difficult really worth it?

What do you get out of it?

screamer

An File wrote: »

I've been driving for maybe seven years at this stage, and even at 20 I liked the philosophy of leading by example. Flashing cars at junctions to let them join traffic or to let them exit the main road, acknowledging other drivers when they do the same for me, etc. I often see a ripple effect when someone I've yielded to does the same for someone else further down the road. It makes life a little bit easier for everyone (so long as you're not that driver who holds up a load of cars by being *too* nice :P )

Yep and do you know that if you flash or beckon someone out and something happens them you can be held responsible? Same with pedestrians.
I drive in Dublin a lot and see a lot of crashes out past newlands it's like no patience after being in town or the m50......floor it and then bang....... idiot drivers.

Tombo2001

As a commuter cyclist - one thing I've noticed an awful lot recently -

Light turns green.

First car goes. Second car goes. Third car goes. Fourth car goes.

Fifth car driver is looking at their phone.

Fifth car doesn't move.

Fifth car still hasn't moved.

Sixth car is wondering how long to wait before beeping.

Sixth car beeps.

Fifth car takes off like the clappers through an orange light.

Lights turn red.

Arbiter of Good Taste

lawred2 wrote: »

will you make 'no apologies' if your blocking results in a car accident? Someone killed?

Is being so difficult really worth it?

What do you get out of it?

No, it's the d1ck cutting into the lane that is causing the accident.

lawred2

Arbiter of Good Taste wrote: »

No, it's the d1ck cutting into the lane that is causing the accident.

well sure but you're not helping by making sure or trying to make sure that you've blocked them.. You can be as righteous as you like; but I damn well know that I never want, even the tiniest bit, to know that my unnecessary actions contributed to a car accident.

I ask again; is it worth it?

What do you get out of it?

12Phase

ironclaw wrote: »

I make no apologises for passively blocking people from taking an exit if they are being cute about it. Classic example is the N7 / M50 interchange. Coming from Kildare into Dublin, if you ain't in the left or middle lane to take the M50 by the last set of signs telling you which lane to be in, I ain't letting you in. You may go down the Long Mile Rd and learn to be more observant, but of course, its not that you weren't observant you'd just thought you'd floor it up the left (In an 80km/h zone) and try skip some traffic that bothered getting into lane.

Same thing if you are coming off the M50 to take the N7, if your not in the left lane by the time the slip rolls around, forget it. Head onto the Long Mile or take a spin to the next M50 junction. I really and truly don't care. Everyone else got in lane and their are plenty of opportunities to merge a long, long time before the junction.

And before anyone jumps on saying its dangerous, its far more dangerous, in my book, to be jumping in at the last moment, cutting people off and hitting the brakes because you are approaching at Mach 1 to save yourself 10 seconds. Its completely unnecessary. I'll maintain my safe gap with the car in front, and that's all I'll be maintaining. Tough luck that you don't fit.

That's not the situation I'm describing. It's nothing to do with observing signs.

I'm talking about a a busy city centre quayside where cars need to be able to move across from other roads, lanes, parking/set down etc Everyone is not moving in the same direction or going to the same destinations.

You basically couldn't actually use the route at all to turn right unless you were driving the full length of the quay because of bloody mindedness.

City streets can't function if traffic can't change lane. They're not motorway or dual carriage way lanes with everyone going to clearly posted straight line directions. They're complicated, dense, ancient street networks and need to be able to move through them in.

If you block traffic in that situation you create literal gridlock. (Well messy grids in these cities)

Allinall

Tombo2001 wrote: »

As a commuter cyclist - one thing I've noticed an awful lot recently -

Light turns green.

First car goes. Second car goes. Third car goes. Fourth car goes.

Fifth car driver is looking at their phone.

Fifth car doesn't move.

Fifth car still hasn't moved.

Sixth car is wondering how long to wait before beeping.

Sixth car beeps.

Fifth car takes off like the clappers through an orange light.

Lights turn red.

Sixth car goes through red light.

Seventh car goes through red light.

Eight car goes through red light.

Just thought I would finish that for you.

12Phase

Allinall wrote: »

Just thought I would finish that for you.

The issue here is people taking their cars out of gear and putting on the handbrake at short sequence lights. That's what they're taught to do by driving instructors. It causes major delays though as they have to undo all of that when the lights go green.

You REALLY notice it when you're driving an automatic and it takes 10 to30+ seconds for a car to react to green.

In Cork at times some particularly dozey types take so long that the traffic lights seem to give up on them and sense no movement so shift back to red lol

Those Siemens traffic lights expect German efficiency and get confused.

Allinall

12Phase wrote: »

The issue here is people taking their cars out of gear and putting on the handbrake at short sequence lights. That's what they're taught to do by driving instructors. It causes major delays though as they have to undo all of that when the lights go green.

You REALLY notice it when you're driving an automatic and it takes 10 to30+ seconds for a car to react to green.

In Cork at times some particularly dozey types take so long that the traffic lights seem to give up on them and sense no movement so shift back to red lol

Those Siemens traffic lights expect German efficiency and get confused.

Agree fully.

I think switching to the UK sequence of Red/Amber- Green would help somewhat.

However, it's the ones with the head bowed (obviously on the phone) that cause the worst delays.

ironclaw

lawred2 wrote: »

will you make 'no apologies' if your blocking results in a car accident? Someone killed?

Is being so difficult really worth it?

What do you get out of it?

I'm in my lane, maintaining a safe distance from the car in-front of me, observing and being in lane ahead of time. I'm absolutely no danger to anyone. In fact, furthermore, as I'm not changing lane, I have no obligation to yield to a car merging from another lane, I'm perfectly entitled to keep that gap.

What I get out of it? The self satisfaction that I ruined a self-entitled person's day and boy is that a feeling. We're all equal on the road, if you are in an emergency situation, get an escort or wait for the blues. You have absolutely no entitlement to bully and speed you way to save seconds. That's what causes accidents, the complete separation of reasoning, intention and ability, a commonality in a lot of Irish drivers.

If you're queuing in a shop, and someone decides they are more important than you and deliberately chooses to ignore the queue, instead jumping to the top, how do you react? Its exactly the same scenario but instead of fist-y cuffs, they can just spend some time doing an extra lap around the M50 :pac:

lawred2

ironclaw wrote: »

I'm in my lane, maintaining a safe distance from the car in-front of me, observing and being in lane ahead of time. I'm absolutely no danger to anyone. In fact, furthermore, as I'm not changing lane, I have no obligation to yield to a car merging from another lane, I'm perfectly entitled to keep that gap.

What I get out of it? The self satisfaction that I ruined a self-entitled person's day and boy is that a feeling. We're all equal on the road, if you are in an emergency situation, get an escort or wait for the blues. You have absolutely no entitlement to bully and speed you way to save seconds. That's what causes accidents, the complete separation of reasoning, intention and ability, a commonality in a lot of Irish drivers.

If you're queuing in a shop, and someone decides they are more important than you and deliberately chooses to ignore the queue, instead jumping to the top, how do you react? Its exactly the same scenario but instead of fist-y cuffs, they can just spend some time doing an extra lap around the M50 :pac:

Well I hope that self satisfaction stays good for you.

Remember your own advice the next time you are driving somewhere you are not familiar with...

Also why do you presume that every driver who needs to get into the same lane as you is a self-entitled person? You know nothing about them. They could be driving a rental car or be from the other end of the country.

It's a bit small town minded to expect everyone on the road to know exactly what they are doing every minute of their journey.

Mind if I ask your age?

ironclaw

lawred2 wrote: »

Well I hope that self satisfaction stays good for you.

Remember your own advice the next time you are driving somewhere you are not familiar with...

Also why do you presume that every driver who needs to get into the same lane as you is a self-entitled person? You know nothing about them. They could be driving a rental car or be from the other end of the country.

It's a bit small town minded to expect everyone on the road to know exactly what they are doing every minute of their journey.

Mind if I ask your age?

Mid twenties, President Circle Hertz and I've almost (literally) driven around the world in terms of mileage and actual land. So plenty of unfamiliar places :pac:

N7 is well signed posted for about 2km before the merge, so your point is moot.

Exits on the M50, again, well sign posted so the point is moot.

Actually, if you are that unfamiliar with an area, you should probably stay in the left most lane anyway as we are in the lucky position (Unlike say the US) where most exits are to the left. Its rare (Save maybe the end of the M50) where you absolutely must be in the middle or rightmost lanes to take an exit.

I've royally messed up in the States, but I take my medicine and do a lap. Wrong way in Manhattan could cost you 40 mins, done it and learned from it. 405 in LA, same thing, ah well. There's a monumental difference between being unfamiliar with an area and messing up (And by which the mature thing to do is take your exit, proceed to somewhere safe and get your bearings instead of tearing across a few lanes at the last minute) Versus generally assuming you are most important and entitled to speed,barge and bash your way into a lane at the last minute to save 15 seconds.

lawred2

ironclaw wrote: »

Mid twenties, President Circle Hertz and I've almost (literally) driven around the world in terms of mileage and actual land. So plenty of unfamiliar places :pac:

N7 is well signed posted for about 2km before the merge, so your point is moot.

Exits on the M50, again, well sign posted so the point is moot.

Actually, if you are that unfamiliar with an area, you should probably stay in the left most lane anyway as we are in the lucky position (Unlike say the US) where most exits are to the left. Its rare (Save maybe the end of the M50) where you absolutely must be in the middle or rightmost lanes to take an exit.

I've royally messed up in the States, but I take my medicine and do a lap. Wrong way in Manhattan could cost you 40 mins, done it and learned from it. 405 in LA, same thing, ah well. There's a monumental difference between being unfamiliar with an area and messing up (And by which the mature thing to do is take your exit, proceed to somewhere safe and get your bearings instead of tearing across a few lanes at the last minute) Versus generally assuming you are most important and entitled to speed,barge and bash your way into a lane at the last minute to save 15 seconds.

I like how you've gone from

passively blocking people from taking an exit if they are being cute about it

to

assuming you are most important and entitled to speed,barge and bash your way into a lane at the last minute to save 15 seconds

Theboinkmaster

ironclaw wrote: »

Classic example is the N7 / M50 interchange. Coming from Kildare into Dublin, if you ain't in the left or middle lane to take the M50 by the last set of signs telling you which lane to be in, I ain't letting you in.

That junction is an absolute clusterfvck - there's normally a long queue in the left lane for people going m50 northbound but the problem is the middle lane slows down dramatically as people try to skip the queue and move in at the last minute. Then for people who are going southbound on the m50 the quickest way is actually in the right lane up to about 200-300 meters from the junction and then move into the middle (correct lane), to then take the left turn onto m50 south. Always always always in the last 100-200 meters in the middle lane it's completely empty as most traffic are either going m50 north or into town.

They should have put 4 lanes in there (which they had space to do) to give 2 lanes m50 north, 1 lane m50 south and 1 lane town for the last 1km of the n7 as you approach the m50.

Theboinkmaster

ironclaw wrote: »

I make no apologises for passively blocking people from taking an exit if they are being cute about it. Classic example is the N7 / M50 interchange. Coming from Kildare into Dublin, if you ain't in the left or middle lane to take the M50 by the last set of signs telling you which lane to be in, I ain't letting you in. You may go down the Long Mile Rd and learn to be more observant, but of course, its not that you weren't observant you'd just thought you'd floor it up the left (In an 80km/h zone) and try skip some traffic that bothered getting into lane.

Same thing if you are coming off the M50 to take the N7, if your not in the left lane by the time the slip rolls around, forget it. Head onto the Long Mile or take a spin to the next M50 junction. I really and truly don't care. Everyone else got in lane and their are plenty of opportunities to merge a long, long time before the junction.

And before anyone jumps on saying its dangerous, its far more dangerous, in my book, to be jumping in at the last moment, cutting people off and hitting the brakes because you are approaching at Mach 1 to save yourself 10 seconds. Its completely unnecessary. I'll maintain my safe gap with the car in front, and that's all I'll be maintaining. Tough luck that you don't fit.

Two wrongs don't make a right - you are part of the problem.

uck51js9zml2yt

I was on howth pier this morning turning right towards Dublin.
Not one car slowed down to let me pull out despite a red light a few meters past the junction.
Can't understand people.

12Phase

I can understand people. A percentage are total (it rhymes with runts, can't quite think of the word...,)

Theboinkmaster

12Phase wrote: »

I can understand people. A percentage are total (it rhymes with runts, can't quite think of the word...,)

Agreed - driving around Dublin it seems to me 30% are aggressive cvnts, 60% are oblivious idiots and just 10% chilled out and normal like me

millington

12Phase wrote: »

It wasn't until relatively recently. I'm sure it will cause similar issues in England and Scotland as time goes on. Their old system didn't make it obvious where the car was registered initially.

The Irish system goes crazy identifying and underlining the county. Letter in centre highlighted with two dashes and the county name in Irish above to really ram it home.

The old French system forced reregistration if you moved department to department. The new one is not regional at all. Just random letters and numbers. They've a departmental number on the edge of the plate which is removable as there was uproar over removal of regional identity!

Either way the car still had an area related plate attached to it

I quite like having the area on it. Adds a touch of character and history I think.

Anyway off topic, back to the driving discussion

Diemos

Carmelo Deafening Grease wrote: »

I was on howth pier this morning turning right towards Dublin.
Not one car slowed down to let me pull out despite a red light a few meters past the junction.
Can't understand people.

I'd say most of that was just drivers who don't paying attention and are not thinking as opposed to being wilfully ignorant (though there are plenty in that category also).

Insect Overlord

screamer wrote: »

Yep and do you know that if you flash or beckon someone out and something happens them you can be held responsible? Same with pedestrians.
I drive in Dublin a lot and see a lot of crashes out past newlands it's like no patience after being in town or the m50......floor it and then bang....... idiot drivers.

Yeah, but I check my mirrors and make sure I'm aware of cyclists, etc, before giving someone a signal. I'm talking about regular roads in town and housing estates rather than motorways and dual carriageway exits here. Not going to invite someone to move into the way of an on-coming truck, like.

fin12

H3llR4iser wrote: »

Yes, plenty of times, not comparable. You might see it everywhere, but Cork takes the prize with a big lead, especially the N40/N25 for some reason - actually if you go to the dual carriageway towards Blarney, it's not as bad as on the South Ring. Not sure why.

Carlow is where the most road rage happens.

fin12

Has anyone seen when cars take the outer lane when passing Blackpool shopping centre in cork so they are in the outer lane and your supposed to be in that if u are heading right onto the city but these assh0les are the last section cut all the way across to the left inner lane to take the lane to mayfield/glen really dangerous, I've had it happen twice I'd be in the middle lane turning right and they just cut straight across and then on one occasion the car couldnt get into the inner lane so blocked the middle lane I was in and I was blown out of it by a big truck because I had to stop cause this driver had blocked the lane and couldn't get into the inner lane....

neris

Carmelo Deafening Grease wrote: »

I was on howth pier this morning turning right towards Dublin.
Not one car slowed down to let me pull out despite a red light a few meters past the junction.
Can't understand people.

Howth harbours a law unto itself but that junction can be hit and miss with people letting you out or not

josip

An File wrote: »

Yeah, but I check my mirrors and make sure I'm aware of cyclists, etc, before giving someone a signal. I'm talking about regular roads in town and housing estates rather than motorways and dual carriageway exits here. Not going to invite someone to move into the way of an on-coming truck, like.

A friend of mine who did an advanced driving course was advised never to give another road user any signal, because if something were to happen, that signal could be used against you.
The instructor said that your intentions can be made obvious by where you stop your car, make eye contact and perhaps a slight movement of your head

Charles Babbage

lawred2 wrote: »

Also why do you presume that every driver who needs to get into the same lane as you is a self-entitled person? You know nothing about them. They could be driving a rental car or be from the other end of the country.

Being in a rental car does not entitle you to act the bollix.
Like ironclaw I've made manys the loop in the USA, but I did not drive dangerously.

lawred2 wrote: »

It's a bit small town minded to expect everyone on the road to know exactly what they are doing every minute of their journey.

Yes, expecting Irish motorists to know what they are doing seems to be a stretch too far for some.

boardsuser1

fin12 wrote: »

Has anyone seen when cars take the outer lane when passing Blackpool shopping centre in cork so they are in the outer lane and your supposed to be in that if u are heading right onto the city but these assh0les are the last section cut all the way across to the left inner lane to take the lane to mayfield/glen really dangerous, I've had it happen twice I'd be in the middle lane turning right and they just cut straight across and then on one occasion the car couldnt get into the inner lane so blocked the middle lane I was in and I was blown out of it by a big truck because I had to stop cause this driver had blocked the lane and couldn't get into the inner lane....

Drive that road several times a day every day. And what you just described happened. An oul one about 90 held up everyone by having her car across 2 lsnes and then not moving when the lights turned green.