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World Rugby boss calls for Six Nations relegation

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    #92
    former total
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,536 ✭✭✭former total


    snotboogie wrote: »

    Eh, every time I've played for a rugby team abroad there are always a few Italians knocking about. When is the last time Italy have had 70,000 people turning up to watch the auld lads playing domino's or at an Olympic handball game? Or at a Seria A match for that matter?

    I wasn't being 100% serious.


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    #93
    snotboogie
    Registered Users Posts: 3,558 ✭✭✭snotboogie


    ArmaniJeanss wrote: »
    The derbies between ACMilan&Inter, and both teams home games against Juve would generally all be 75K+ attendances in the San Siro.
    But not really sure what it proves anyway, Serie A has 300+ games whereas the 2or3 home 6N games are special occasions. Even if they had an attendance greater than every Serie A match it wouldn't really prove rugbys popularity per se.

    You know handball is indoor so its relatively limited on arena sizes?

    ****
    Also, winter sports probably need to be added to the earlier list of rivals that eat into rugbys potential share of the sports markets; Italy have a proud tradition in various disciplines and usually get 10-20 medals at an Olympics.

    I'm not saying rugby is bigger than football, I'm just illustrating that 70,000+ people attending a sporting event is rare, even in Italian sport's golden goose.

    You honestly are saying that the only thing restricting 70,000 crowd's at handball games is the arena size? The Italian National team hasn't even qualified for the last 8 European championships.
    The Lost Sheep wrote: »
    I just don't see how you can say the Pro12 is more prestigious.
    You shouldn't have a best of Eastern Europe side as the likes of Georgia don't want it and will progress further, quicker and easier if theyre on their own.

    I've explained twice how the Pro 12 is more prestigious; it has better players, bigger crowds, more money and bigger TV audiences. How would you measure the prestige of a tournament?
    When did Georgia say that they don't want a Pro 12 team with a pick of Romanian players? How would this stunt their development vs their current situation?


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    #94
    Utah_Saint
    Registered Users Posts: 1,781 ✭✭✭Utah_Saint


    Would it be difficult for Georgia to do what Argentina done and get all their internationals to play for one Georgian Pro "13" team?

    Playing in the same team week in/out should help them develop. A similar approach could be taken by USA & Canada.


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    #95
    Podge_irl
    Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 25,345 Mod ✭✭✭✭Podge_irl


    Utah_Saint wrote: »
    Would it be difficult for Georgia to do what Argentina done and get all their internationals to play for one Georgian Pro "13" team?

    Playing in the same team week in/out should help them develop. A similar approach could be taken by USA & Canada.

    A Pro13 would require 4 more weeks of games and for that reason alone is a complete and utter non-runner.


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    #96
    snotboogie
    Registered Users Posts: 3,558 ✭✭✭snotboogie


    Podge_irl wrote: »
    A Pro13 would require 4 more weeks of games and for that reason alone is a complete and utter non-runner.

    Really? A complete and utter non runner? There are dozens of ways to get around the fixture issue. More games is a positive for the Pro 12 because it would mean more TV time in an ever more valuable TV market.


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    #97
    LostArt
    Registered Users Posts: 1,787 ✭✭✭LostArt


    The lucrative Georgian tv market?


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    #98
    Podge_irl
    Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 25,345 Mod ✭✭✭✭Podge_irl


    snotboogie wrote: »
    Really? A complete and utter non runner? There are dozens of ways to get around the fixture issue. More games is a positive for the Pro 12 because it would mean more TV time in an ever more valuable TV market.

    Such as?

    As it is the introduction of the Italian teams forced the Pro12 to run games during the international window which is ridiculously far from optimal because it has such a disproportionate impact on the Pro12. There is zero chance of the league expanding unless the format is fundamentally changed - and they're not going to move to a completely different format to help out the Georgians.


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    #99
    snotboogie
    Registered Users Posts: 3,558 ✭✭✭snotboogie


    LostArt wrote: »
    The lucrative Georgian tv market?

    12 extra games a season which can be sold to all markets, you also open up the admittedly small Georgian TV market.
    Podge_irl wrote: »
    Such as?

    As it is the introduction of the Italian teams forced the Pro12 to run games during the international window which is ridiculously far from optimal because it has such a disproportionate impact on the Pro12. There is zero chance of the league expanding unless the format is fundamentally changed - and they're not going to move to a completely different format to help out the Georgians.

    Have the extra games really made the Pro 12 that much worse? It hasn't been optimal but overall I'd say there has been a net benefit, like a Georgian team would be.


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    #100
    Podge_irl
    Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 25,345 Mod ✭✭✭✭Podge_irl


    snotboogie wrote: »
    12 extra games a season which can be sold to all markets, you also open up the admittedly small Georgian TV market.



    Have the extra games really made the Pro 12 that much worse? It hasn't been optimal but overall I'd say there has been a net benefit, like a Georgian team would be.

    12 extra games with substandard teams missing international players are of no interest to any market.

    I think they have made it a bit worse yes. You end up with what should be marquee games being played with second choice teams. It doesn't make for a great product.


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    #101
    snotboogie
    Registered Users Posts: 3,558 ✭✭✭snotboogie


    Podge_irl wrote: »
    12 extra games with substandard teams missing international players are of no interest to any market.

    I think they have made it a bit worse yes. You end up with what should be marquee games being played with second choice teams. It doesn't make for a great product.

    It looks like they will be though. The TV contracts for live sport are going through the roof, even if the product is substandard. You now have what? 11 dedicated live sports channels in the UK. They need to fill airtime. Despite a declining product the Pro 12 saw a 50% increase in TV revenue last year, just from the sky deal. It may take a while for other European broadcasters to realize it but live sports is one of the few ways to go to get people to watch TV.


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    #102
    its_phil
    Registered Users Posts: 5,442 ✭✭✭its_phil


    snotboogie wrote: »
    LostArt wrote: »
    The lucrative Georgian tv market?

    12 extra games a season which can be sold to all markets, you also open up the admittedly small Georgian TV market.
    Podge_irl wrote: »
    Such as?

    As it is the introduction of the Italian teams forced the Pro12 to run games during the international window which is ridiculously far from optimal because it has such a disproportionate impact on the Pro12. There is zero chance of the league expanding unless the format is fundamentally changed - and they're not going to move to a completely different format to help out the Georgians.

    Have the extra games really made the Pro 12 that much worse? It hasn't been optimal but overall I'd say there has been a net benefit, like a Georgian team would be.

    And the cost of flying to Georgia for 30+ people?


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    #103
    wp_rathead
    Registered Users Posts: 10,067 ✭✭✭✭wp_rathead


    Personally I'd like see a Georgian, Russian , Romanian, Spanish and maybe German or Portuguese side in Challenge Cup every season
    At moment 2 spots available between these Nations and some semi-pro Italian sides


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    #104
    kieranwaldron
    Registered Users Posts: 151 ✭✭kieranwaldron


    Teams like Georgia should be given a chance to enter the six nations. A one game encounter at a neutral venue in the autumn would be the best way to decide who is promoted and relegated.


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    #105
    The Lost Sheep
    Registered Users Posts: 14,967 ✭✭✭✭The Lost Sheep


    kieranwaldron wrote: »
    Teams like Georgia should be given a chance to enter the six nations. A one game encounter at a neutral venue in the autumn would be the best way to decide who is promoted and relegated.
    Possibly but none of the 6Nations will want to risk losing out on finances from 6N which are so key to running unions.
    When the 6 Nations is 15-20 % of the IRFUs total annual turnover and it would be the same for other unions then nothing while change.


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    #106
    croket
    Registered Users Posts: 251 ✭✭croket


    Calvisano (1st in italian league) lost 36-23 against the romanian club Timisoara while Rovigo (2d in italian league) lost at home against russian side Enisei-STM 0-31. That's show the dramatic state of italian rugby. If Calvisano don't win by +13 pts in the second leg or Rovigo don't win by +31 pts, there will be no one team from Eccellenza in an European Competition


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    #107
    freyners
    Registered Users Posts: 4,298 ✭✭✭freyners


    croket wrote: »
    Calvisano (1st in italian league) lost 36-23 against the romanian club Timisoara while Rovigo (2d in italian league) lost at home against russian side Enisei-STM 0-31. That's show the dramatic state of italian rugby. If Calvisano don't win by +13 pts in the second leg or Rovigo don't win by +31 pts, there will be no one team from Eccellenza in an European Competition

    Ensei are a very good team. They beat both Newcastle and Brive at home in the Cup this year


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    #108
    croket
    Registered Users Posts: 251 ✭✭croket


    freyners wrote: »
    Ensei are a very good team. They beat both Newcastle and Brive at home in the Cup this year

    Yes but they are not even champion of Russia (lost the final against Krasny Yar) and play without any Tier1 player (only russians and 1 georgian, 2 ukrainians and 2 latvians)

    Top 2 eccellenza teams are supposed to include best italians next to the 2 Pro12 teams and both were smashed by Tier2 teams (after 60' the score was 33-6 to Timisoara against Calvisano)


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