Is a leaf for me?

LastStop

Hi,

Recently been considering an EV and the Leaf appears to be the best option available for my needs. However I have been looking for information online and I find it difficult to get some definitive answers.

My commute to work is 88km door to door. Would the leaf handle a round trip without a charge? Majority of the trip is done on m11 at 120kph.

There is an esb station close to work but how secure is it to leave your car charging on the street? Can any yob just disconnect and steal your cable??

Do you need to pay for parking if charging?

Has the price been inflated due to the government grant? Would a second hand one be better value?

If looking at second hand ones, what are the things to look out for? As in for combustion engine I normally get a mechanic to give it the once over.

Is there lots of hidden charges? I see on some dealers site they have options available, cold pack etc? But they don't explain what they are. What's the more essential options??

Thanks in advance if anyone can help.

BoatMad

Hi. We travel on the M11 with s round trip commute of 130km , we just bought 30kw leaf and have tested the commute

The leaf will not do your round trip and certainly not at motorways speeds
It does have good range at lower speeds ( it's the ultimate backroads car )
Yesterday I did 87km stArting with a proclaimed range of 160km , I arrived home with 100km remaining

However sped versus power is a square law relationship so the faster you go you use considerably more power and hence on the motorway at those speeds you'd be lucky to get 100km range

So it would definitely need charging at your workplace or nearby

The cable can be locked to the car when in use so it can't be stolen
Assuming the space isn't blocked , it would be no issue to leave it there

With your commute and recharge you really needs the newer 30kwh battery and preferably the 6kva battery charger option , otherwise you will need about 6 hours a day access to that on street charger ( to replace approx 90kmof range takes me 5,5 hours at 3kw.)

Currently as far as I see , except Cork , you pat parking charges will charging

Given your commute , I'd be reluctant to reccomend a second hand leaf
, if you want a second hand leaf inspected take it to a NissanEV dealer, but the main issue ( in fact the only issue ) is battery health

If you could get in work charging , it's possible to do what you ask. Without it, it's more of s chore

stesaurus

LastStop wrote: »

Hi,

Recently been considering an EV and the Leaf appears to be the best option available for my needs. However I have been looking for information online and I find it difficult to get some definitive answers.

My commute to work is 88km door to door. Would the leaf handle a round trip without a charge? Majority of the trip is done on m11 at 120kph.

There is an esb station close to work but how secure is it to leave your car charging on the street? Can any yob just disconnect and steal your cable??

Do you need to pay for parking if charging?

Has the price been inflated due to the government grant? Would a second hand one be better value?

If looking at second hand ones, what are the things to look out for? As in for combustion engine I normally get a mechanic to give it the once over.

Is there lots of hidden charges? I see on some dealers site they have options available, cold pack etc? But they don't explain what they are. What's the more essential options??

Thanks in advance if anyone can help.

Quick question as I assumed you meant 88km round trip as in 44km to work and then the same back. Is it that or 88km each way?

176 Kms, no it would not make a 176 km round trip without a charge.

However Leaf II will be available in 2018 or late 2017 and have a 300-340 km range. 100-110 Kph. And will be absolutely no problem.

If I am to drive the leaf pretty hard 110-120 kph I will get a efficiency of 19-20 Kwh per 100 kms meaning I would need 40 Kwh for 200 kms range. You would need about 36 kwh at 20 kwh/100 kms driving reasonably hard, you've 28 usable in the 30 kwh leaf so you'd need 8 Kwh but in reality you'd need at least 10 to get you home with a few % to spare. However you may find yourself getting to work and back to a charger with more % left than you think.

The 30 Kwh Leaf will do this with a 20 min daily top up at a fast charger.

I can get 110 kms from the 24 Kwh Leaf driving 100-110 kph so the 30 Kwh should be capable of 140 Easily and I bet with a 10-20 min top you could easily make 176 kms with a few kms to spare.

Ideally you wouldn't run the battery to very low battery warning daily and it's too uncomfortable and stressful if you do this so top ups are better and in the 30 Kwh Leaf they're a lot faster than in the 24 Kwh, the 30 Kwh charges faster from the fast chargers.

IF you can get work charging then this would be absolutely brilliant. I have work charging and it saves me about 20 mins a day charging, 10 for a charge and 10 to get in and out of Naas at off peak times. I work shift. So before I got the work charge point I made my commute of 135 kms with a 10 min fast charge and got home with about 20-30 % charge left depending how hard I drove it.

The difference time wise driving between 110-130 Kph isn't huge.

I would say definitely take a 30 Kwh leaf for a few days test drive and let us know how you get on. Do try get work charging, all you need is a weatherproof 3 pin outdoor socket and you can buy a portable EVSE aka the granny charger on line for about 300 Euro's, this allows you to charge the car slowly but will be fine over an 8-9 work day.

LastStop

s.welstead wrote: »

Quick question as I assumed you meant 88km round trip as in 44km to work and then the same back. Is it that or 88km each way?

No I mean 88km each way. Gorey to Dublin.

LastStop

[Deleted User] wrote: »

176 Kms, no it would not make a 176 km round trip without a charge.

However Leaf II will be available in 2018 or late 2017 and have a 300-340 km range. 100-110 Kph. And will be absolutely no problem.

If I am to drive the leaf pretty hard 110-120 kph I will get a efficiency of 19-20 Kwh per 100 kms meaning I would need 40 Kwh for 200 kms range. You would need about 36 kwh at 20 kwh/100 kms driving reasonably hard, you've 28 usable in the 30 kwh leaf so you'd need 8 Kwh but in reality you'd need at least 10 to get you home with a few % to spare. However you may find yourself getting to work and back to a charger with more % left than you think.

The 30 Kwh Leaf will do this with a 20 min daily top up at a fast charger.

I can get 110 kms from the 24 Kwh Leaf driving 100-110 kph so the 30 Kwh should be capable of 140 Easily and I bet with a 10-20 min top you could easily make 176 kms with a few kms to spare.

Ideally you wouldn't run the battery to very low battery warning daily and it's too uncomfortable and stressful if you do this so top ups are better and in the 30 Kwh Leaf they're a lot faster than in the 24 Kwh, the 30 Kwh charges faster from the fast chargers.

IF you can get work charging then this would be absolutely brilliant. I have work charging and it saves me about 20 mins a day charging, 10 for a charge and 10 to get in and out of Naas at off peak times. I work shift. So before I got the work charge point I made my commute of 135 kms with a 10 min fast charge and got home with about 20-30 % charge left depending how hard I drove it.

The difference time wise driving between 110-130 Kph isn't huge.

I would say definitely take a 30 Kwh leaf for a few days test drive and let us know how you get on. Do try get work charging, all you need is a weatherproof 3 pin outdoor socket and you can buy a portable EVSE aka the granny charger on line for about 300 Euro's, this allows you to charge the car slowly but will be fine over an 8-9 work day.

Thanks for all that info. It may be a good option, sometimes I can get the bus into work when my shifts suit but that isn't always the case and lately I have been living in the petrol stations.

There is an on street esb charge point on the next street over from the job but I would be concerned about people tampering with the cables. Is there a locking mechanism on the charger or can anyone remove them?

So if a second hand 30Kwh is available how are second hand leafs holding up?

Pkiernan

Unless you are guaranteed a charging spot at work I don't believe the Leaf is a viable option for you.
You will always have a worry that you won't get charged up, and the Leaf simply won't make the round trip.

Your best bet is a diesel.

There won't be 2nd hand 30 Kwh available until at least next year when a few demo ones might be available, probably a greater chance getting one in the U.K.

The 30 Kwh only came out in November or December 2015.

I'd definitely advise the 30 Kwh for your commute because it charges a lot faster from the fast chargers.

The 6.6 Kw charger is a 900 extra cost but again is worth it because it can charge twice as fast from the public street chargers.

Not all standard street chargers have free parking and you don't want to hog this charge point all day every day and while there are no guidelines as to charger usage it really isn't fair, with the 6.6 Kwh charger you'd need 2-3 hrs max to get you home.

If you can get a 2nd hand 24 Kwh leaf then with the 6.6 kw charger you could do your commute if you had to charge at a standard street charger, but don't forget this charge point could be in use. From a 100 % charge you should get 110 Kms on a new battery but as it ages range reduces, however the 2014+ battery seems to be lasting a lot better than the original, the battery was updated in late 2013 but 2014 should guarantee you get the newer battery and you should also get the more efficient heater in the SV and SVE spec also.

There is a 2013 Leaf in the U.K a, taxi that is the newer Gen and lost only 10% of the battery after 100,000 miles however he fast charged it 1,770 times which is incredible. If you loose only 10% after 160,000 kms then you have a range of 100 kms , however, this taxi driver may have fast charged the battery so it got very hot judging by the amount of fast charges and being a taxi he was probably addicted to it. If you use it once a day it could last a lot longer before it reduces in capacity by 10%.

The 30 Kwh is a different chemistry and it's unknown yet how it performs.

stesaurus

LastStop wrote: »

No I mean 88km each way. Gorey to Dublin.

Hmmm ok yeah then probably a bit too far on current tech.
I'm Arklow so not too far from you currently. If I drive in then I usually Park at Greystones for free and use the Dart. To be honest I'd prefer that than all the extra Dublin traffic and I get to read or relax a bit before work. They are planning on increasing frequency from Greystones also. You'd have the rang to do that np plus there's Fast chargers available at Coynes cross, wicklow and bray.
Ideally ask them for an outdoor plug or EV charger at work and see their response. A standard outdoor 3 pin plug would give you plenty to get home after a few hours.

BoatMad

LastStop wrote: »

No I mean 88km each way. Gorey to Dublin.

the run to Dublin needs intermediate charging, so unless you have reliable access to that ,its not going to work . On street public charging cant be relied upon every day either . ( ICEd, or busy etc )

Chances are you can charge up at a fast charger over lunch. You would only need to charge on the way to Dublin if you would not have the range to make the trip to the charger on the return trip home.

Take a look at the map.The Blue icons are the fast chargers, ChaDeMo is for the Leaf.

https://www.esb.ie/our-businesses/ecars/charge-point-map

BoatMad

Deleted User wrote: »

Chances are you can charge up at a fast charger over lunch. You would only need to charge on the way to Dublin if you would not have the range to make the trip to the charger on the return trip home.

Take a look at the map.The Blue icons are the fast chargers, ChaDeMo is for the Leaf.

https://www.esb.ie/our-businesses/ecars/charge-point-map

every day he has to get to a fast charger , of which they arnt many in Dublin, then assume its free ( and working) , if he gets it wrong, he's pushing the car home.

Im all for this, but on an everyday basis , its not practical

stesaurus

BoatMad wrote: »

every day he has to get to a fast charger , of which they arnt many in Dublin, then assume its free ( and working) , if he gets it wrong, he's pushing the car home.

Im all for this, but on an everyday basis , its not practical

Yep, I wouldn't rely on infrastructure for a daily commute plus future costs are an unknown.
There's a few options though so look into them. The greater the mileage you could do without too much charging hassles means an EV starts making more sense as that's where you'll see greater savings.

BoatMad

s.welstead wrote: »

Yep, I wouldn't rely on infrastructure for a daily commute plus future costs are an unknown.
There's a few options though so look into them. The greater the mileage you could do without too much charging hassles means an EV starts making more sense as that's where you'll see greater savings.

yes indeed, in my case we have a round trip commute of 130Km, and the leaf makes a lot of sense, the more mile the better EVs look, consistent with battery range and intermediate charging ability

135 kms for me was very practical charging in Naas daily in the 24 Kwh and I had a lot less choice of chargers And the 30 Kwh can get a lot more Kwh for the same time on the charger but he'd still want about 20 mins of charging time.

We can talk all day OP but you really got to test drive the car to see if it's for you or not, do try get some form of work socket. Also do make sure it's the 30 Kwh.

LastStop

Thanks all for the replies.

I think I will drop into the Nissan dealer up in deansgrange on monday and see what's on offer regarding test drives and pricing etc.

I checked the esb map and there are 2 on street charge within a 5 min walk to the office. Unfortunately without free parking while charging and max 3 hour limit it doesn't seem possible to use in this way. Having to pay for parking to charge again eats into the savings to be made switching to an EV. My job wouldn't install anything, there is already sparse areas to park.

The more information I get the less viable and more expensive it seems to be. Which is a massive shame.

Unless you're willing to charge for up to 20 mins during the way home or over lunch if there's a charger near by then you'd be best off to wait just 2 years for the 300+ Km electrics.

But do take a 2 day test drive and go to the fast chargers on the way home or lunch and see what you think. If you do take the test drive let us know how you get on.

stesaurus

If your anywhere near a Dart that has a charger then it's free to park there while charging.

Unless it's down or in use.

But it could be the case where the OP{ uses this when he can and the fast chargers the rest.

k123456

LastStop wrote: »

My job wouldn't install anything, there is already sparse areas to park.

.

Would your job let you use a normal three pin socket, and you charge
using a "Granny cable"

There might be an inducement from the government for companies to install a dedicated charger

A lot of companies like to look green/eco , a EV charge point would fit in with this , perhaps one for visitors/customers and 1 for staff

OP, Leaf is not suitable for you. For the moment they really are a short commute city car, without regard for what any one says. All it would take for things totally to go wrong for you would be a short detour due to road work or some thing

BoatMad

Deleted User wrote: »

OP, Leaf is not suitable for you. For the moment they really are a short commute city car, without regard for what any one says. All it would take for things totally to go wrong for you would be a short detour due to road work or some thing

I wouldn't agree with that statement at all. They are a great medium distance commute car, in fact they are the very wrong thing for someone driving short distances in town as that person could drive a small petrol with low running costs and a TCO well under the leaf

The leaf shines the more mileage you can do . I just 340 km today in the leaf , all for free , the I pickup I normally drive would have cost me about 70 euros by now !!

BoatMad

BoatMad wrote: »

I wouldn't agree with that statement at all. They are a great medium distance commute car, in fact they are the very wrong thing for someone driving short distances in town as that person could drive a small petrol with low running costs and a TCO well under the leaf

The leaf shines the more mileage you can do . I just 340 km today in the leaf , all for free , the I pickup I normally drive would have cost me about 70 euros by now !!

320 Kms ? I never drove that in the Leaf.

How do you find the fast charging ? it's a good bit faster.

320 kms should be th range of Gen II Leaf !

Deleted User

Deleted User wrote: »

OP, Leaf is not suitable for you. For the moment they really are a short commute city car, without regard for what any one says. All it would take for things totally to go wrong for you would be a short detour due to road work or some thing

I drive 135 kms for my commute, and around 30,000 kms a year that's a lot more than city driving.

Only way the Op knows if the 30 Kwh Leaf is suitable or not is to drive it for 2 days.

BoatMad

Deleted User wrote: »

320 Kms ? I never drove that in the Leaf.

How do you find the fast charging ? it's a good bit faster.

320 kms should be th range of Gen II Leaf !

The time it took to drink a coffee and eat a subway sandwich , took the car from 39% to 92%. Battery temperature never moved off 6 bars . I'll start collecting leaf spy pro data soon , but trying to finish two EVSE designs at the moment first ( load sharing one at home , and EVSE in the ji772 handle as an alternative granny

Today's weather and the motorway driving is killing its range , I was in 4 fcps and 1 scp.

320km is a Sunday drive with the mother for me !! , in the summer I do a 440 km round trip , regularly , will be interesting to see !!! , the pickup is looking very unloved at the moment, I must fit a modern Bluetooth head unit !!!!

If I were to take a long trip like that I'd most likely be going away with my Partner and there's now way in hell she'd tolerate a drive that required more than one fast charge and it suits me to take the Diesel for the odd trip beyond about 200 kms we have the car anyway so why not use it ?

39-92% in the time to take a coffee and sambo is what 25-30 mins ? that's very impressive considering the extra capacity of the 30 Kwh.

BoatMad

Deleted User wrote: »

If I were to take a long trip like that I'd most likely be going away with my Partner and there's now way in hell she'd tolerate a drive that required more than one fast charge and it suits me to take the Diesel for the odd trip beyond about 200 kms we have the car anyway so why not use it ?

39-92% in the time to take a coffee and sambo is what 25-30 mins ? that's very impressive considering the extra capacity of the 30 Kwh.

Well it depends

, for example the 1300 km drive to Nice , we decided to take 3 days and stay in low class accommodation that had very high food ratings , brilliant . Stops to take the " airs" , if you get my meaning .

Transferring to the leaf, wouldn't be an altogether different journey.

I'm quite happy in roadside cafes and service areas as long as there is reasonable wifi , I can rest , eat a bit and do some work.

Two fcps stops is just about right , anyway with the 30 kW leaf , especially when I avoid motorways ( as I tend to do now) , I can cover 150km between charges and anyway I usually need a drink , and send some emails or update the servers etc

The days of 500 km virtually non stop drives are over for me , I'd need a day to sleep after those now !!!!

The good thing about my commute is the fact I can put the foot down, the work charger is great and a 135 km commute isn't small mileage.

BoatMad

BoatMad wrote: »

I wouldn't agree with that statement at all. They are a great medium distance commute car, in fact they are the very wrong thing for someone driving short distances in town as that person could drive a small petrol with low running costs and a TCO well under the leaf

The leaf shines the more mileage you can do . I just 340 km today in the leaf , all for free , the I pickup I normally drive would have cost me about 70 euros by now !!

But how long did that take? I'm guessing you spent an hour at least charging, and had to put it on charge again when you got home,.

Charging it at home is no big deal.

I would say even an hours fast charging for me isn't a huge deal for the odd long trip I take that's over maybe 140 kms. The thing is I usually only take long trips when my Partner is with me and she won't tolerate any more than one fast charge and at that she complains. But as I said it suits to take the diesel while we have it sitting there. The Leaf is still doing by far the most mileage per year.

When Leaf II comes along and the rest of the 300+ km electrics in just 2 years I know my Partner won't complain with 320 odd kms range, a single 30 min QC would get another 100-110 kms or 15 mins with a 100 Kw charger, Leaf II will hopefully charge at 100 Kw provided the ESB install these chargers.

BoatMad

Deleted User wrote: »

But how long did that take? I'm guessing you spent an hour at least charging, and had to put it on charge again when you got home,.

Two FCPs( 20-25 minutes each ) , it always goes on charge at night anyway

Which brings up an interesting observation , to keep within the night rate hours , ie at the moment , after 12 midnight and ,leaving for work at 8 am, I have to rig up the 32 amp evse very soon now as it struggles to be 100 % charged in that time frame

As I sad before I can't see how this will work in the future with bigger capacity batteries

With 6.6-7 Kw it will be no problem for most if not all commutes.

If you were to use 40 Kwh per trip say 200 kms based on 20 Kwh/100 kms efficiency, 100 kms each way commute, that's a pretty savage commute.

Plug in at night that's 42 kwh Midnight to 7am. Or 11 PM winter, I don't think even 1-2 hrs at peak rate would make much of a difference, that would cost 2 Euro's for 12 Kwh at peak rate.

The only problem will be the ESBN whether it can take a few hundred homes in an estate charging at 6-7 Kw. That's will be a few years yet but they need to get the capacity there now.

BoatMad

Deleted User wrote: »

With 6.6-7 Kw it will be no problem for most if not all commutes.

If you were to use 40 Kwh per trip say 200 kms based on 20 Kwh/100 kms efficiency, 100 kms each way commute, that's a pretty savage commute.

Plug in at night that's 42 kwh Midnight to 7am. Or 11 PM winter, I don't think even 1-2 hrs at peak rate would make much of a difference, that would cost 2 Euro's for 12 Kwh at peak rate.

The only problem will be the ESBN whether it can take a few hundred homes in an estate charging at 6-7 Kw. That's will be a few years yet but they need to get the capacity there now.

The estate wiring will be ok , but the local transformers are always underrated , the Esb never installed , max domestic amps X number of house = transformer capacity , unfortunately

They's want to get upgrading sooner rather than later.

thierry14

[Deleted User] wrote: »

They's want to get upgrading sooner rather than later.

Part of me really thinks a conspiracy is going on with EV's, stupid as it sounds.

You would think the ESB would be thrilled with the extra business EV's will bring them, but they don't give a damn it seems.

Car giants the same.

Wouldn't surprise me if governments tax the electricity used for EV's like they do petrol/diesel if EV's take off.

It's not beyond governments to do that, in countries like the US with cheap fossil fuel, EV's would be pointless if they taxed electric.

thierry14

BoatMad wrote: »

The estate wiring will be ok , but the local transformers are always underrated , the Esb never installed , max domestic amps X number of house = transformer capacity , unfortunately

What's the max kw in regular houses here?

Not including specialised charging like people with garages have.

6.6kw?

Say in 2025 when 200kW cars are the norm, are we looking at over 24 hours for a full charge?

thierry14

thierry14 wrote: »

Part of me really thinks a conspiracy is going on with EV's, stupid as it sounds.

You would think the ESB would be thrilled with the extra business EV's will bring them, but they don't give a damn it seems.

Car giants the same.

Wouldn't surprise me if governments tax the electricity used for EV's like they do petrol/diesel if EV's take off.

It's not beyond governments to do that, in countries like the US with cheap fossil fuel, EV's would be pointless if they taxed electric.

You can't tax electricity like petrol and diesel or people and business wouldn't be able to pay for it. Though people protect over water chargers a minuscule charge by comparison to energy costs, perhaps people should protest over the lack of the regulator to pass on the massive drop in energy costs over the last year.

The ESB will upgrade chargers, and the whole network when needed the question is though, will they do it quick enough ?

thierry14

thierry14 wrote: »

What's the max kw in regular houses here?

Not including specialised charging like people with garages have.

6.6kw?

Say in 2025 when 200kW cars are the norm, are we looking at over 24 hours for a full charge?

Most homes have about 13 Kw available. Single phase supply can be upgraded.

Bigus

Long range electric cars won't empty their batteries on a daily basis, they'll just need top ups and the odd big charge , unless the driver is going 12 hrs day in day out.

There's also an argument for a smart grid to use EVs as stand by power back ups/ efficient storage.

thierry14

[Deleted User] wrote: »

You can't tax electricity like petrol and diesel or people and business wouldn't be able to pay for it. Though people protect over water chargers a minuscule charge by comparison to energy costs, perhaps people should protest over the lack of the regulator to pass on the massive drop in energy costs over the last year.

The ESB will upgrade chargers, and the whole network when needed the question is though, will they do it quick enough ?

Not an expert but pretty sure it wouldn't be hard to tax electricity used by EV's

Eg any appliance/home that draws more than such kw is charged this price.

I am sure they can figure it out, plenty of reasons for them too if EV's kill the oil market.

thierry14

thierry14 wrote: »

Not an expert but pretty sure it wouldn't be hard to tax electricity used by EV's

Eg any appliance/home that draws more than such kw is charged this price.

I am sure they can figure it out, plenty of reasons for them too if EV's kill the oil market.

Well you see , Ireland imports most of it's energy and that's billions of Euro's leaving the economy yearly, electrics use this energy far more efficiently so the need to import so much energy greatly reduces keeping a lot more money here and while VAT is only about 12% on electricity compared to 70% or so on petrol and about 65% on Diesel when you have a lot more people using electrics that's still vat collected + the money kept in the country from importing a lot less energy not to mention the potential fines for breech of emissions.

There will still be plenty of market for oil without transport because practically everything is made from oil, and that's a scary fact when you think about it.

thierry14

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Well you see , Ireland imports most of it's energy and that's billions of Euro's leaving the economy yearly, electrics use this energy far more efficiently so the need to import so much energy greatly reduces keeping a lot more money here and while VAT is only about 12% on electricity compared to 70% or so on petrol and about 65% on Diesel when you have a lot more people using electrics that's still vat collected + the money kept in the country from importing a lot less energy not to mention the potential fines for breech of emissions.

There will still be plenty of market for oil without transport because practically everything is made from oil, and that's a scary fact when you think about it.

Point taken

What I am saying is you could have different electric home rates for EV's charged at home vs your other appliances like kettle etc.

If electric companies have to upgrade networks and governments are loosing revenues from fuel, someone will have to pay you can be sure of that.

thierry14

thierry14 wrote: »

Point taken

What I am saying is you could have different electric home rates for EV's charged at home vs your other appliances like kettle etc.

If electric companies have to upgrade networks and governments are loosing revenues from fuel, someone will have to pay you can be sure of that.

Different rates for electric cars charging at home won't work because of the cost to implement.

KCross

thierry14 wrote: »

Not an expert but pretty sure it wouldn't be hard to tax electricity used by EV's

Eg any appliance/home that draws more than such kw is charged this price.

I am sure they can figure it out, plenty of reasons for them too if EV's kill the oil market.

Cant see how that specific mechanism would work. What about if you have a device that requires similar power to an EV (Electric shower is a prime example)... are you going to be inadvertently charged extra for that then as well? That wouldnt be "fair" and someone that doesnt have an EV is going to get charged the EV rate!

Most EV's charge at 3kw, some at 6kw. Several domestic appliances would run at or above that rate (showers, heaters, tumble dryers, possibly some kettles!).

I agree the government wont allow the loss of revenue though. Most likely the car tax will go up when EV's are more common but thats a long way off.

Water John

People must factor in carbon when talking of Gov't policy. Carbon and the fines will be a real driver in fuel tax etc.
Can't see Gov't touching Ev's for a long time. May even be more support.

At a public level, once the range issue has been largely cracked, I would see rapid response. Remember then, public charge points won't be that necessary. Maybe a pit stop occasionally.

I would say 98% of Irish drivers couldn't care about emissions, be they Co2 or actual pollutants. The thing they do care about is what costs them and this is where the incentive to change will only come from, that and if manufacturers decide they can't produce diesels any more.

Our Government at the time, the Greens decreased taxes on the most polluting vehicles on our roads so I have little faith that any Irish government will make any good decision here.

range is definitely a part of the reason people won't change, despite the average Irish daily trip of 16 kms people are scared of a 140 km range car.

Whether the 300+ km range electrics change this in 2 years remains to be seen, there also needs to be a lot more makes and models to choose.

BoatMad

+1 mad lad.

Water John

Its fines for not achieving targets will drive Gov't.
If people come to the conclusion that air pollution is a significant risk to children for example, attitudes might change quickly.

But I think it's mostly down to Gov't. Smoky coal ban and cigarette ban come to mind. This is when a Gov't has the liathroidi to lead its people.

BoatMad

BEVs, in particular will not be sold in greater numbers then ICE cars, simply on the basis of pollution or " green " issues. They will be sold in greater numbers, when they are materially "better" cars then their ICE equivalent, quicker , more comfortable, more amenities etc , with better fuel economy , i.e. cheaper to run to boot.

then they'll sell in buckets, we are not far away from that point in fact

Water John

You are correct, Boat. But its a case of both the carrot and the stick, as always.

NIMAN

Deleted User wrote: »

I would say 98% of Irish drivers couldn't care about emissions, be they Co2 or actual pollutants. The thing they do care about is what costs them and this is where the incentive to change will only come from, that and if manufacturers decide they can't produce diesels any more.

Our Government at the time, the Greens decreased taxes on the most polluting vehicles on our roads so I have little faith that any Irish government will make any good decision here.

range is definitely a part of the reason people won't change, despite the average Irish daily trip of 16 kms people are scared of a 140 km range car.

Whether the 300+ km range electrics change this in 2 years remains to be seen, there also needs to be a lot more makes and models to choose.

Once the 300km range EV arrives, people will just find another reason not to buy one.

I still think more needs to be done by the Gov to encourage EV sales. How many EVs are there in Ireland? Surely they should be free of road tax? If it was made free tomorrow, the reduction in tax take would be a drop in the ocean, but would be a big incentive to potential buyers.