conflict over communion

tupenny

Hi all.
Looking for any advice / words of wisdom.
I am 30, single parent. Child is 7, communion year next year.
I'm not a practicing Catholic, rarely go to mass.
Had my child baptised , fairly under pressure to do so from both sides of the family 7 years ago. Didn't think much about it but had the christening to keep everyone else happy to be honest.
So next year is communion year and I really feel like a hypocrite if I go along with it. Catholic school but I know there's plenty of kids who are opting out.
Do I go through with this thing I don't believe in to keep every1 else happy?
I'd rather wait til kiddo can decide for themselves, and not force anything either way.
Still I know everyone else is expecting this "great day" next year.
Really don't know what to do, but want to be sure of my decision before it becomes the topic of conversation for the next year..
Thanks in advance for any advice

X6.430macman

Your child, your decision. If you are worried about what people will think then it was your desision and you are comfortable with it. Your not the only one to be opting out.

tupenny

Cheers macman. I know it should be that simple.

LegacyUser

X6.430macman wrote: »

Your child, your decision. If you are worried about what people will think then it was your desision and you are comfortable with it. Your not the only one to be opting out.

I've had this conversation myself many times and have come to the conclusion that what harm is it to go ahead with it if you've come this far. Your child, like me, can decide when they are old enough as to whether or not to go to mass etc.

X6.430macman

tupenny wrote:

Cheers macman. I know it should be that simple.

Whatever your decision I wouldn't feel pressured into going. If you feel your child would like to go to avoid feeling left out etc than maybe it would be best if you did, but if not than no.

mordeith

We opted out. Asked our son his opinion as well.Gonna give him his own day out as an alternative (that's all it is for a lot of people anyway)

Jayop

What does the child want to do?

I know my sister had her kids baptised but didnt have communion. The girl felt she missed out. More on the big white dress and a day out which isn't the point but for a wee girl it is.

Polo_Mint

Its quite simple

Dont have your Child make their Communion.

To your family - Tell them you do not feel comfortable pushing beliefs onto your child that you are unsure of yourself.

That you will let your child educate themselves first and only then you would be comfortable in the choice they make in the future.

alane20

In fairness I completely understand op, but I wouldn't consider it a big deal just to let the child make communion, I have 3 kids 1 has made it, I wouldn't look too much into the meaning of it and treat it more like a special day for the child, big day out with his/her classmates, id just do it as par of the course for irish children, wouldn't waste my energy worrying about it

January

My daughter is for communion next year. She was baptised, purely from an access to schools point of view, neither of us (her parents( have attended mass in years and she herself does not attend mass and has not unless it's to a christening.

We have discussed with her what it entails and what her options are (day out with just us or making her communion). She has decided that she wants to make her communion with all her friends in school. She knows this means attending mass in the run up and we both know that we will have to attend with her but we will do it for her if that's what she has decided. We have told her she can opt out at any time beforehand if she changes her mind.

I think at the age she is at that it's worth asking her opinion on it, she obviously does religion in school if she's doing prep in school for the communion. Ask her opinion, explain your stance and let her decide.

tupenny

Deleted

How Strange

We're not Catholic, our children aren't baptised but if we had to send them to a catholic run school then I think we would ask the child what they wanted. I don't believe it in at all and I'd just see it as a pageant. However as communion is organised through the school we wouldn't want them to feel different if they just want to fit in. I don't agree with it and it is hypocrisy but it would be their decision.

I personally wouldn't do it for my family (thankfully in laws don't care). It's our family and we raise our kids our way. That's a mantra I've had to trot out quite a lot over the last 6 years.

uck51js9zml2yt

Someone I know whose not RC just let their kid get a blessing rather than communion so she could have the day out with her friends.
The school smd local priest had no issue with it.

Penny Tration

I'd ask the child what she wants. If she's happy to not have communion, she could get a blessing from the priest like tratranksa mentioned, therefore still having the white dress and day out to feel included.

Or you could get her a princess dress and bring her for a lovely day out if she doesn't want to take communion

mordeith

The whole 'I just did it so they wouldn't feel left out' nonsense is just leading to this continuous cycle of wondering what to do about it. If more people opted out like they actually wanted to, then there wouldn't be half the kids making their communion and less of a perceived need for the urge to 'fit in'.

Jayop

mordeith wrote: »

The whole 'I just did it so they wouldn't feel left out' nonsense is just leading to this continuous cycle of wondering what to do about it. If more people opted out like they actually wanted to, then there wouldn't be half the kids making their communion and less of a perceived need for the urge to 'fit in'.

This is 8 year old kids were talking about and fitting in is important to most of them.

mordeith

Jayop wrote: »

This is 8 year old kids were talking about and fitting in is important to most of them.

Fitting in to an event which is steeped in hypocrisy on behalf of the parents and lends credence to those who would ostracize a child/family for not going along with the herd. I'm glad our son isn't partaking in what has been transformed into another gross display of religious indoctrination and social pressure.
If he truly wanted to make his communion we would have let him, but condition that he begin attending mass regularly and believing in the stories he is told in religion class. He wasn't long opting out.

Jayop

mordeith wrote: »

Fitting in to an event which is steeped in hypocrisy on behalf of the parents and lends credence to those who would ostracize a child/family for not going along with the herd. I'm glad our son isn't partaking in what has been transformed into another gross display of religious indoctrination and social pressure.
If he truly wanted to make his communion we would have let him, but condition that he begin attending mass regularly and believing in the stories he is told in religion class. He wasn't long opting out.

I don't think it's as big a deal with boys to be honest. My lad could take it or leave it. My girl would have been heartbroken to miss out though.

Different strokes for different folks.

bilbot79

I'm an atheist myself but if I were you I'd do the communion, for the kids sake. Hell get a load of money, be fussed over and have a day out with his pals.
I know it seems religious but it's really just cultural. Do you really want to deny him the day out in order to make a statement about your own beliefs?

mordeith

Jayop wrote: »

I don't think it's as big a deal with boys to be honest. My lad could take it or leave it. My girl would have been heartbroken to miss out though.

Different strokes for different folks.

I would agree on that. Seems to me though that there is an awful lot of people saying young girls are under pressure from various tv stars/pop singers/models or whatever to be be this ideal personification of a female, and yet it's okay to have them dress up in white princess gowns in an effort to be the prettiest 'best dressed' girl for the whole parish/church to look at and comment on?

mordeith

bilbot79 wrote: »

I know it seems religious but it's really just cultural. Do you really want to deny him the day out in order to make a statement about your own beliefs?

That's a nonsense. It only seems cultural because it has been inherited from a religiously oppressed people for years. I wouldn't partake in an 'cultural event' if I fervently believed that the group it is part of has a core belief that goes against basic freedoms of belief and expression. No point people banging on about how the church did nothing to combat clerical sex abuse or are against gay marriage/divorce/women priests etc if you are going to actively take part in a ceremony which, from their perspective, serves to ingratiate a person further into that belief system.

fima

My son is not baptised and I could not in all conscience get him baptised in order to 'fit in' or to make his communion. There are too many people doing it just for the sake of it. It means nothing to them except an excuse for parents to get pissed (not all but some). When my stepson's class make their communion this year we will get him a nice outfit and bring him along to be with his class and be part of the 'event' but that's just it, an event that means nothing and is purely cultural at this point.

lazygal

fima wrote: »

My son is not baptised and I could not in all conscience get him baptised in order to 'fit in' or to make his communion. There are too many people doing it just for the sake of it. It means nothing to them except an excuse for parents to get pissed (not all but some). When my stepson's class make their communion this year we will get him a nice outfit and bring him along to be with his class and be part of the 'event' but that's just it, an event that means nothing and is purely cultural at this point.

This for us. Ours aren't baptised and if necessary we'll deal with the communion in our way, not by going along with it. I wouldn't like my children to be fed the message that fitting in is more important than anything else, so go along with stuff you don't believe for conformity's sake.

Tasden

bilbot79 wrote: »

I'm an atheist myself but if I were you I'd do the communion, for the kids sake. Hell get a load of money, be fussed over and have a day out with his pals.
I know it seems religious but it's really just cultural. Do you really want to deny him the day out in order to make a statement about your own beliefs?

My little one is attending the mass with her friends and then having a day out with her family and wearing a lovely new dress. The money I wouldn't be encouraging regardless of religion or not because I think it is an absolutely awful tradition and has no place in the occasion. No religion involved but she won't miss out.

eviltwin

I wouldn't be keen to get into a habit of forking out money so my kid doesn't feel left out.

bilbot79

mordeith wrote: »

That's a nonsense. It only seems cultural because it has been inherited from a religiously oppressed people for years. I wouldn't partake in an 'cultural event' if I fervently believed that the group it is part of has a core belief that goes against basic freedoms of belief and expression. No point people banging on about how the church did nothing to combat clerical sex abuse or are against gay marriage/divorce/women priests etc if you are going to actively take part in a ceremony which, from their perspective, serves to ingratiate a person further into that belief system.

Fair enough. Kids don't tend to see Communion in that context. That's a very opinionated, adult take on this whole business (not saying it's incorrect) but this is about the little kid. I have an opinion that parents shouldn't ram their own issues down the kids throat. Instead they should give them the tools to make their own independent choices.

Milly33

Have you asked you child if he would like to make it.. I dont have kids now myself but have seen lots of this.. It is very hard to make a decision, feel for you that way, especially if family are more pushed towards it and you are not..

My own two nephews are making theres this year (abroad) one is 8 and the other 11. They were both christened, i still remember one of my newphews the priest said the devil was coming out of him when he cried i was like what... But anywho us as sister would not be too religious and neither was her husband but they got it done but there was no pressure for them to do it..

Come the communion time she just asked them really did they want to do it.. And they decided they would make it together which is good... I think it is more about them learning about it all rather than devote christians. Again tis easy as there is no pressure from anyone..


Another friend of mine her son never got christened, they just did not do it..Then when they had another they said they would get the two of them christened together.. it was lovely really nice and he was a little older so understood about it more...

Tough call i think you should maybe ask your child and see what he says and then approach it from there..

Tasden

bilbot79 wrote: »

Fair enough. Kids don't tend to see Communion in that context. That's a very opinionated, adult take on this whole business (not saying it's incorrect) but this is about the little kid. I have an opinion that parents shouldn't ram their own issues down the kids throat. Instead they should give them the tools to make their own independent choices.

This is true but in fairness how "independent" a choice is an 8 year old going to make when attending a religious school, being told in school that god wants them to make the sacrament, hearing all their friends are making it etc.
Not saying you're wrong, I completely agree, but I've read a lot of people on here say atheist parents are shoving their own (lack of) beliefs on the children, but allowing them to be free of religion until they are old enough and informed enough to make a truly independent choice at a later date that isn't as heavily influenced by the issues I've mentioned, is actually offering them their own freedom even if it may not seem like it now if that makes. The child won't always view religion and the sacraments through a child's eyes so some parents do feel it is important to not make decisions based on what they want/feel now.

mordeith

bilbot79 wrote: »

I have an opinion that parents shouldn't ram their own issues down the kids throat. Instead they should give them the tools to make their own independent choices.

Believe me we didn't have to do any ramming. The thing is that children are naturally curious, so when he came home from school asking 'Did Jesus really come back from the dead? Did he really make 5 loaves and 2 fish feed hundreds of people? (the list goes on and on), we just said 'Well, what do you think?'
Without indoctrination kids well readily see the whole thing as a sham.

moc moc a moc

To a child, communion is like halloween. It's about the novelty of dressing up, partaking in occult ceremony with their friends, receiving sweets/money, etc. Even as an atheist, I don't see a reason to make a huge deal out of it either way.

Having said that, I like Mordeith's approach: leave the decision to the child, but make it clear they have to go all-in. Choosing communion means choosing Christianity, therefore going to mass every week, daily prayer, having to reconcile all the crazy Bible stories, etc.

The one thing I do feel strongly about one way or the other is that you should not bend to the will of your family on this. Your child's religious observance (or lack thereof) is not their business and they should not be involved in or allowed to influence the decision.

GarIT

Something I really hope parents take into account is how permanent this is.

I wasn't given a choice although if I remember correctly I was telling everyone that would listen I didn't believe but wanted the money.

Since I have been in contact with the RCC several times and they refuse to remove the records of me being baptised, christened or confirmed or append a note saying I had left the church like they used to do.

Most of the websites which let you look up ancestors use church records as one of their sources and the RCC has confirmed that they will tell any organisation that asks that I am, always have been and always will be a Catholic. I don't want this, I don't want to be associated with what I believe to be a terrible organisation but they wont let me leave. They are completely willing to fight it in court and I just can't find any way out of this mess. So please be aware of what you might be getting your kids into.

January

GarIT wrote: »

Something I really hope parents take into account is how permanent this is.

I wasn't given a choice although if I remember correctly I was telling everyone that would listen I didn't believe but wanted the money.

Since I have been in contact with the RCC several times and they refuse to remove the records of me being baptised, christened or confirmed or append a note saying I had left the church like they used to do.

Most of the websites which let you look up ancestors use church records as one of their sources and the RCC has confirmed that they will tell any organisation that asks that I am, always have been and always will be a Catholic. I don't want this, I don't want to be associated with what I believe to be a terrible organisation but they wont let me leave. They are completely willing to fight it in court and I just can't find any way out of this mess. So please be aware of what you might be getting your kids into.

Why should they have to remove those records? Those things happened didn't they?

Do they not have the form you can fill out now to say you don't want to be Catholic anymore?

Toots

January wrote: »

Why should they have to remove those records? Those things happened didn't they?

Do they not have the form you can fill out now to say you don't want to be Catholic anymore?

There used to be one but they stopped accepting it a few years ago AFAIK. I remember looking into it myself, but my husband is a practicing Catholic and if I'd opted out we wouldn't have been able to have a church wedding so I left it alone.

January

They should let you opt out but I don't agree with removing records of baptisms etc.

nikkibikki

My husband and I thought about it for years. We'd have a certain amount of faith but not to the extent of everything in RC teaching. I didn't even believe it as a child and to this day I am gullible about lots of stuff! Our oldest son is in a small school, only 12 in his class. I asked him if he wanted to make it, told him he'd have to go to mass all the time and he said he did. Everybody else in the class is. They don't want to miss out on any fun or feel left out in class. I really wish they'd take it out of schools though but I bet the church won't do that. And I really hate when they turn into drinking sessions, that will not be happening at any of my kids sacraments!

OP do what suits you and your child. Feck everyone else!

January

nikkibikki wrote: »

My husband and I thought about it for years. We'd have a certain amount of faith but not to the extent of everything in RC teaching. I didn't even believe it as a child and to this day I am gullible about lots of stuff! Our oldest son is in a small school, only 12 in his class. I asked him if he wanted to make it, told him he'd have to go to mass all the time and he said he did. Everybody else in the class is. They don't want to miss out on any fun or feel left out in class. I really wish they'd take it out of schools though but I bet the church won't do that. And I really hate when they turn into drinking sessions, that will not be happening at any of my kids sacraments!

OP do what suits you and your child. Feck everyone else!

No, our 'do' will be in the community centre my husband works in with a bouncy castle, finger food and entertainer for the kids for a few hours and then we will go home. No drinking sessions for us either.

DSN

nikkibikki wrote: »

My husband and I thought about it for years. We'd have a certain amount of faith but not to the extent of everything in RC teaching. I didn't even believe it as a child and to this day I am gullible about lots of stuff! Our oldest son is in a small school, only 12 in his class. I asked him if he wanted to make it, told him he'd have to go to mass all the time and he said he did. Everybody else in the class is. They don't want to miss out on any fun or feel left out in class. I really wish they'd take it out of schools though but I bet the church won't do that. And I really hate when they turn into drinking sessions, that will not be happening at any of my kids sacraments!

OP do what suits you and your child. Feck everyone else!

We exactly same went so far as to tell teacher we wouldn't b doing it but all 12 were doing it his cousins have done it & he couldn't understand why he couldn't. Like u say if it wasn't in the school we wouldn't even think about it. He enjoying the prep but I don't think it's been all about fHc in his class (think the proclamation took over a lot of the focus before Easter!!!) and we not making a big fuss. Bought him nice chinos n shirt & shoes will have my mother & bro n his family over for a home cooked bite after the class party in parish hall. tho we lucky rest of close family & in laws abroad it's hard for those with bigger families all expecting an invite n to b catered for!! I agree do whatever suits you & your family!!!

GarIT

January wrote: »

Why should they have to remove those records? Those things happened didn't they?

Do they not have the form you can fill out now to say you don't want to be Catholic anymore?

They did happen and I deeply regret that they did, I wish my parents had waited and let me make the decision myself. The point I was trying to make is that when you get your child, baptised, christened or confirmed you are doing something that is irreversible and they may not want it.

I partially agree with you that they shouldn't have to remove the records, you are right that they are historical records, but I rather that wasn't the case.

A few years ago they decided to stop allowing people to leave.

January

GarIT wrote: »

They did happen and I deeply regret that they did, I wish my parents had waited and let me make the decision myself. The point I was trying to make is that when you get your child, baptised, christened or confirmed you are doing something that is irreversible and they may not want it.

I partially agree with you that they shouldn't have to remove the records, you are right that they are historical records, but I rather that wasn't the case.

A few years ago they decided to stop allowing people to leave.

I'm a big old mess anyway. I was baptised roman Catholic and then when I was a teen I was baptised into evangelical Christianity... After your post though I will make sure my daughter is doing the right thing for her so she can't blame me for it when she's older

Toots

AFAIK it's the Confirmation which is the one that really seals the deal as far as being a full Catholic is concerned. I remember chatting with the priest about it at my pre nuptial enquiry thing, and he was of the belief that 12/13 is too young and the kids don't understand what they're really committing to, and it should be left til they're 18 or so. I completely agreed with him.

DonnchadhMac

I don't to be honest I don't think it is such a big deal and it would be best just let them do it just to enjoy it all

pwurple

I don't think you should feel pressured into it by family.

I do think you should take into account your child's feeling on it. I'd be inclined to let them decide themselves.

Feeling like you belong to a group is important... They may feel this is part of it, or may not, because some others are opting out. What are the core group of friends doing?

I remember not going on school tours when i was in school, and i definitely missed out on the shared experiences, stories afterwards etc.

lazygal

I don't think missing out on a school tour is the same as letting an eight year old get involved in a religious ceremony.

lazygal

GarIT wrote: »

They did happen and I deeply regret that they did, I wish my parents had waited and let me make the decision myself. The point I was trying to make is that when you get your child, baptised, christened or confirmed you are doing something that is irreversible and they may not want it.

I partially agree with you that they shouldn't have to remove the records, you are right that they are historical records, but I rather that wasn't the case.

A few years ago they decided to stop allowing people to leave.

My parents regret going along with the Catholic thing for us. They only did it because it was the done thing and no because of any faith. They've said if they had their time over they'd be more independent and not swayed by notions about children needing religion etc.

lazygal

Also for those saying let the child decide, is that really advisable? If the child wanted to get involved in another religion because some of their friends were of that faith would you let an eight year old make that decision? Letting children decide on their religion isn't something I'd do.

nikkibikki

I would certainly look into it and research it and if we thought it appropriate, we wouldn't stop them participating.

I agree with the poster who made the point that confirmation should be later but again it's to keep it in primary school so they won't change it. My niece made hers at 10 as they only do it every 2yrs so 5th and 6th make it every 2yrs. She has since decided she's an athiest. She could change her mind a hundred times again during the course of her life.

Lazygal, it's def not good that you can't be allowed to leave RCC any more. Do they still excommunicate people I wonder?

mordeith

lazygal wrote: »

Also for those saying let the child decide, is that really advisable? If the child wanted to get involved in another religion because some of their friends were of that faith would you let an eight year old make that decision? Letting children decide on their religion isn't something I'd do.

Taking the decision out of their hands is why there are so many 'Catholics' making their communion. Give the child the relevant information and 9/10 would go the sensible route. I haven't heard too many kids believe they could actually join the Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles

eviltwin

I'd be more inclined to let them do it if they were actually doing it for the right reasons. It's the mockery it makes of the event I have an issue with. Most kids are only interested in the money and the princess dress. I'm not religious, I have no time for it but I don't think it's right to take the piss out of it.

endacl

Jayop wrote: »

This is 8 year old kids were talking about and fitting in is important to most of them.

Sure they can all fit into not doing it so.

nikkibikki

endacl wrote:

Sure they can all fit into not doing it so.

If it was taken out of schools, it def would happen! It doesn't mean enough to lots of parents to actually put the work in themselves.

Chocolate fiend

If you do not believe in the church as an organisation then don't let them continue to count your innocent child as one of their members. Two of my 3 are baptised, I regret that but, we will go no further with religious indoctrination. If more people took a stand and removed their children from religious classes, especially the ones who only do it for the party or the day out, or even better for cultural reasons then we would have a much better chance of taking the church out of schools.

As for saying that it is more important to little girls because of the big white dress, that is just insulting to all 8 year old girls.