Proud?

Cluiche iascairi

There could be a few threads on this, but I couldn't find anything similar.



I find myself in a peculiar situation.. I'm not sure which side of the political spectrum I am on? I am very proud of being Irish, I am so grateful that the lottery of life landed me here. Ireland is the best/easiest country in the world to be born and raised in?

I find that "the left" say they're proud to be Irish, yet they want to change almost everything about our country. They are happy with nothing in this country yet still proud to be Irish?

On the other side, "the right" seem to be absolutely ashamed to be Irish, and seem to think being Irish is being born with a sin.

Now I'm only 30, so maybe I'm not old enough to have sense? But in my opinion, Ireland is the greatest country in the planet to grow up? We have practically free education, good job opportunitys if you avail of the education... Even if you don't avail of the education, you can drop out of school at 16 and still raise a family on the Dole with all the added benefits. We have a poor justice system, so poor scumbags and rich white collar scumbags need never worry.. We seem to be well liked (mostly) abroad. No country is going to bomb us. We are spread all over the world working in decent jobs..

I'm waffling on here, but I just can't understand, no one in Ireland seems to be happy with Ireland the way it is? Yes there's corruption at the top,but its also dead easy at the bottom. In my opinion, Ireland is the easiest country to live in weather rich or poor?

I'm proud to be Irish, and I'm very proud of the way my country is ran today, realistically, it can't get anymore "equal" .

Any one else proud of Ireland THE WAY IT IS TODAY

Stheno

wtf do you think is equal about people being able to spend their lives living on the dole while other poor schmucks work and pay taxes to support them?

The Backwards Man

I'm proud of who I am and where I come from. I'm proud of the people that lift where I come from and who i am to good stead. Nationality really doesn't come in to that, They could be Irish, British or Tuvaluan for all I care.

One More Toy

I fapped twice in one sitting - I was proud of that

scream

I think most people are proud of the country they happen to be born in. I'm English and am as proud to be English as you are to be Irish. By the same token, there are as many things that annoy me about Ireland as there are about England. To a certain extent I think people naturally see their country of birth through rose tinted spectacles, probably more so for those of us that have been living elsewhere for a number of years. I don't see much wrong with Ireland to be fair, but I don't see much wrong with England either. I'd still rather be in England though if truth be known.

AtomicHorror

It's not equal for women who want or need abortions, unbaptised children who need to go to school or sick people who need prompt medical attention.

It's mostly fine if you're a healthy white male aged about... oh hey, 30.

Cluiche iascairi

Stheno wrote:

wtf do you think is equal about people being able to spend their lives living on the dole while other poor schmucks work and pay taxes to support them?

To be honest, you have a choice.. You can live a reasonable life, never go hungry and have loads of free time on the dole, or you can work hard, have loads of money, but very little time to spend it.. You can cripple yourself with a mortgage or wait out for a council house.. This is my point, you will live a easy life either way?

Cluiche iascairi

scream wrote:

I think most people are proud of the country they happen to be born in. I'm English and am as proud to be English as you are to be Irish. By the same token, there are as many things that annoy me about Ireland as there are about England. To a certain extent I think people naturally see their country of birth through rose tinted spectacles, probably more so for those of us that have been living elsewhere for a number of years. I don't see much wrong with Ireland to be fair, but I don't see much wrong with England either. I'd still rather be in England though if truth be known.

Nice to hear someone else proud of their country, but I feel your missing my point.. People in Ireland don't seem to be proud or happy with this country. The rich hate the poor and the poor hate the rich.. There doesn't seem to be an in between?

MadDog76

Stheno wrote: »

wtf do you think is equal about people being able to spend their lives living on the dole while other poor schmucks work and pay taxes to support them?

I'm very proud of the fact that we do have a relatively decent Welfare system in this country .......... the abuse of it, not so much.

Cluiche iascairi

AtomicHorror wrote:

It's mostly fine if you're a healthy white male aged about... oh hey, 30.

Example 1: The Left

AtomicHorror

Cluiche iascairi wrote: »

To be honest, you have a choice.. You can live a reasonable life, never go hungry and have loads of free time on the dole, or you can work hard, have loads of money, but very little time to spend it.. You can cripple yourself with a mortgage or wait out for a council house.. This is my point, you will live a easy life either way?

I think most of us would find living on the dole unfulfilling and ultimately very depressing indeed. Sure, you won't starve, but you can basically **** your dreams in the bin. I can never understand why anyone would begrudge a life they don't covet, unless they're just really really unhappy with the one they have.

I'd rather work, so I guess that means I'm broadly happy?

Cluiche iascairi

MadDog76 wrote:

I'm very proud of the fact that we do have a relatively decent Welfare system in this country .......... the abuse of it, not so much.

Thumbs up.. I feel the abuse of the welfare system is exaggerated though.

scream

Cluiche iascairi wrote: »

Nice to hear someone else proud of their country, but I feel your missing my point.. People in Ireland don't seem to be proud or happy with this country. The rich hate the poor and the poor hate the rich.. There doesn't seem to be an in between?

I really don't think this is an Irish thing though. You'll hear as much moaning about England by the English in any given pub for example as you hear being spoken about Ireland by the Irish. You probably just think it's specific to Ireland.

AtomicHorror

Cluiche iascairi wrote: »

Example 1: The Left

Do you disagree with the three examples I gave? Are you just planning dismiss and generalise?

I agree with you on welfare, if that helps you get over your assumptions about me.

Cluiche iascairi

AtomicHorror wrote:

Do you disagree with the three examples I gave? Are you just planning dismiss and generalise?

Your trying to say an unbaptized or un religious child wouldn't receive medical care? Nonsense!

On abortion, you probably do have a point.. Its not something I agree or disagree with.

In general your post comes across as a bit whingey which is exactly what I'm trying to say.. No country is going to be perfect for every one. But this one is about as close as you will get, yet still no one seems to be happy with.

Stheno

Cluiche iascairi wrote: »

To be honest, you have a choice.. You can live a reasonable life, never go hungry and have loads of free time on the dole, or you can work hard, have loads of money, but very little time to spend it.. You can cripple yourself with a mortgage or wait out for a council house.. This is my point, you will live a easy life either way?

Well done for missing the point.

Cluiche iascairi

scream wrote:

I really don't think this is an Irish thing though. You'll hear as much moaning about England by the English in any given pub for example as you hear being spoken about Ireland by the Irish. You probably just think it's specific to Ireland.

I suppose Ireland and Britain are much the same. We have better welfare, ye have better healthcare. Britain is at war constantly though, and has caused terror all over the world, which I don't think we have, so generally, we are a lot safer and more liked than Britain? Absolutely no offence or anything towards Brits, just my honest opinion

Cluiche iascairi

@stheno

Actually, I know what your saying, but, always, more people are going to want to work, earn more money, get in more debt, my point is that the choice is there.

Most other country's its work or be poor, here, you can live a good standard of life either way.. You cannot disagree with this, its a fact

Stheno

Cluiche iascairi wrote: »

@stheno

Actually, I know what your saying, but, always, more people are going to want to work, earn more money, get in more debt, my point is that the choice is there.

Most other country's its work or be poor, here, you can live a good standard of life either way.. You cannot disagree with this, its a fact

My point was that those who work should not have to pay punitive levels of tax to facilitate those whom as you say choose not to work.

AtomicHorror

Cluiche iascairi wrote: »

Your trying to say an unbaptized or un religious child wouldn't receive medical care? Nonsense!

I didn't say anything of the sort.

Cluiche iascairi wrote: »

On abortion, you probably do have a point.. Its not something I agree or disagree with.

It's a pretty big deal, one way or the other, for most people.

Cluiche iascairi wrote: »

In general your post comes across as a bit whingey which is exactly what I'm trying to say.. No country is going to be perfect for every one. But this one is about as close as you will get, yet still no one seems to be happy with.

Those are three really big and important issues that matter a great deal to a lot of Irish people. We're not talking about a few outliers here.

Whinging? Go and ****e. You're apathetic. If you really love something, you want it to be the best it can be. You don't settle.

Cluiche iascairi

AtomicHorror wrote:

Whinging? Go and ****e. You're apathetic. If you really love something, you want it to be the best it can be. You don't settle.

It is the best it can be.. Do you not understand, you can't please everyone!!

On your point alone, if you legalise abortion then the religious crowd won't be happy, if you keep it illegal then the likes of you won't be happy..

No where on earth is going to be 100%, perfect for everyone, my point is that this country is as good as it gets.

How would we keep everyone happy with the abortion situation, in your wise opinion??

scream

I still think it ultimately comes down to people naturally wanting to bitch about stuff more than then actually not being proud to be Irish. People are human so they moan. It's only natural really. Happens in every country, I'll bet.

Cluiche iascairi

Stheno wrote:

My point was that those who work should not have to pay punitive levels of tax to facilitate those whom as you say choose not to work.

I'm trying to say, you have a choice. Work and pay taxes, or sponge and receive said taxes.. My overall point is that the choice is yours.. Not many other countries do you have such a choice.. Obviously in the ideal world, no one would work and everyone would be rich..


This is as equal as it gets. You cannot get any more equal than the way we have it today?

Stheno

Cluiche iascairi wrote: »

I'm trying to say, you have a choice. Work and pay taxes, or sponge and receive said taxes.. My overall point is that the choice is yours.. Not many other countries do you have such a choice.. Obviously in the ideal world, no one would work and everyone would be rich..


This is as equal as it gets. You cannot get any more equal than the way we have it today?

Ok. You sound a little naive. Do you work?

Cluiche iascairi

scream wrote:

I still think it ultimately comes down to people naturally wanting to bitch about stuff more than then actually not being proud to be Irish. People are human so they moan. It's only natural really. Happens in every country, I'll bet.

Suppose, me moaning about the moaners proves your point haha..

I still feel sick with the left trying to change everything, and the right being ashamed of everything.. Appreciate the great country we have, it won't stay this equal for much longer

Cluiche iascairi

Stheno wrote:

Ok. You sound a little naive. Do you work?

I'm employed, but out of work the last 5, months injured.. I'm aswell off on my illnesses benefit as I was getting a wage, when you include comuting ect. that's exactly what sparked this thread

Stheno

Cluiche iascairi wrote: »

I'm employed, but out of work the last 5, months injured.. I'm aswell off on my illnesses benefit as I was getting a wage, when you include comuting ect. that's exactly what sparked this thread

Ah right. My point was more about people who earn from mid 30k up and lose over half of anything above that figure in combined taxes

scream

Cluiche iascairi wrote: »

I'm employed, but out of work the last 5, months injured.. I'm aswell off on my illnesses benefit as I was getting a wage, when you include comuting ect. that's exactly what sparked this thread

Well, the benefits system here is definitely a good deal better than England that's for sure. I'm not sure I'd be able to live off it for too long though, but yes, i'd be a lot quicker to moan about the English benefits.

Del2005

AtomicHorror wrote: »

sick people who need prompt medical attention.

You'll get prompt medical attention if you need it, chronic or ongoing medical care isn't the best and while slow is far from the worst where there's no treatment without plenty of money.

AtomicHorror

Cluiche iascairi wrote: »

It is the best it can be.. Do you not understand, you can't please everyone!!

On your point alone, if you legalise abortion then the religious crowd won't be happy, if you keep it illegal then the likes of you won't be happy..

Really? The numbers of those made unhappy by the decision will exactly balance the numbers made happy will it?

This is painful.

Cluiche iascairi wrote: »

No where on earth is going to be 100%, perfect for everyone, my point is that this country is as good as it gets.

As long as you don't put yourself in the shoes of anyone else, sure. It suits you just fine, but unless the majority are just like you, it's nowhere near as good as it gets. It can and should be better. Not perfect, just better. That's something that should always be aimed for.

Cluiche iascairi wrote: »

How would we keep everyone happy with the abortion situation, in your wise opinion??

Who said anything about making everyone happy? It's about making as many people happy as we can.

In my "wise opinion": Hold a referendum, find out what the majority want and legislate accordingly. Guess what the plan is? Hold a referendum, find out what the majority want and legislate accordingly. The result being that a larger number of people are happy with the new reality. Amazing.

I made 3 points, this is the only one you've addressed and you seem to have no concept of its importance. What about the other two? No, not the imaginary one about unbaptised kids not getting medical care.

Actually, forget it. I'm going to bed and this is just not even amusing.

Cluiche iascairi

My point is. If your not happy with that, sign on. You'll still have a roof over your head, food on the table, children in school, clothes on their backs.. Not many other countries are like this.. You don't like paying tax, find somewhere to work where you don't have to pay tax?

Just picked up on your snobbyness too. I earn 27k in my job, I'm currently on about 12k.. Life is easy either way which again is my point

Cluiche iascairi

AtomicHorror wrote:

It's not equal for women who want or need abortions, unbaptised children who need to go to school or sick people who need prompt medical attention.

AtomicHorror

I did misread this and I'm very sorry, upon reading it properly, its still nonsense.

Your clearly a member of the whingy left, happy with nothing..

In my daughters class in a CBS school there is 8 Muslims out of 23 students..

I was recently badly injured in a car crash, I got a very satisfactory treatment and am almost better, I still haven't payed 1cent and won't be able to for a few months yet.

Your as outraged at this thread as you are with everything in life I'm sure..

Your government isn't there to make you happy, that can only come from within. You are the type this thread is about. A whinger

Richard Hillman

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_Human_Development_Index

6th in the world on the UN Human Development rankings. Our goal should always be first but 6th is very impressive.

The quote that has been bandied around over the last few weeks of "the leaders of 1916 will be turning in their graves" is laughable. In their wildest dreams would they ever have thought things could be this good.

Cluiche iascairi

Richard Hillman wrote:

6th in the world on the UN Human Development rankings. Our goal should always be first but 6th is very impressive.

Richard Hillman wrote:

The quote that has been bandied around over the last few weeks of t"he leaders of 1916 will be turning in their graves" is laughable. In theor wildest dreams would they ever of thought things could be this good.

Thank you Richard. Our country is better than those guys could have imagined. I'm sure of that.

Cluiche iascairi

"The Poor" in Ireland are probably in the top 20% richest people on earth?

The bad healthsysem in Ireland is probably better than 80% of the rest of the world.

"Expensive education" in Ireland is probably cheaper than 99% of places on earth.

What more can you except from a small bankrupt island like.


I grew up poor, I'm now working a low wage job, yet I'm still in a better position than most people on this planet..

Ireland is the best/easiest country to live in weather rich poor or in between, How can anyone disagree

Fr_Dougal

Cluiche iascairi wrote: »

My point is. If your not happy with that, sign on. You'll still have a roof over your head, food on the table, children in school, clothes on their backs.. Not many other countries are like this.. You don't like paying tax, find somewhere to work where you don't have to pay tax?

Just picked up on your snobbyness too. I earn 27k in my job, I'm currently on about 12k.. Life is easy either way which again is my point

See how easy life would be if everyone went on the dole. Do you think your dole money magically appears from nowhere?

steddyeddy

Cluiche iascairi wrote: »

I suppose Ireland and Britain are much the same. We have better welfare, ye have better healthcare. Britain is at war constantly though, and has caused terror all over the world, which I don't think we have, so generally, we are a lot safer and more liked than Britain? Absolutely no offence or anything towards Brits, just my honest opinion

Yea I live in Britain and would agree.

tritium

AtomicHorror wrote: »

It's not equal for women who want or need abortions, unbaptised children who need to go to school or sick people who need prompt medical attention.

It's mostly fine if you're a healthy white male aged about... oh hey, 30.

Ah Christ, can someone please take this white male privelige ****e and just drop it into the deepest part of the ocean

B_Wayne

tritium wrote: »

Ah Christ, can someone please take this white male privelige ****e and just drop it into the deepest part of the ocean

I'm not going to get refused medical, a woman will. Women have literally died as a result of our fair Isle's policy on abortion. We might be good in many respects. But it's literally us and Malta in terms of Western country with such regressive policies on abortion.

Eugene Norman

tritium wrote: »

Ah Christ, can someone please take this white male privelige ****e and just drop it into the deepest part of the ocean

Wtf did white have to do with anything in her post anyway?

Shenshen

I'm not Irish, I can't say I'm proud of where I'm from. That's always been a very odd notion to my mind.

After all, as the OP said, where you're born is a lottery. I got lucky being born in a relatively equal, well off, peaceful country.
Am I happy that I ended up being born in such a country? Of course. Am I proud of it? How could I be? It wasn't a good place due to my contribution, but due to the contributions of previous generations. I don't see how I could take pride in the achievements of millions of people I don't even know personally.

If anything, it always left me feeling slightly guilty that I should be born there, want for nothing, get a good education and go on to find a good job, even be able to change the country I live in for one where I prefer the climate (that would be for another thread, but yes, I like the Irish weather), while others who happened to be born elsewhere had to fight tooth and nail every day to get even a fraction of that. I feel being born in a good country gives me a duty towards people who weren't quite so lucky.

And as for change - I'll get a bit philosophical if I may. Change will happen, every minute of every day. It's the nature of the universe and of mankind, nothing stays the same. As an individual, you have two options : you can try and fight the change, but all your efforts will always be temporary at best. Or you can go with the flow, accept that things will change, and try and influence what they'll change into.

Shenshen

Cluiche iascairi wrote: »

"The Poor" in Ireland are probably in the top 20% richest people on earth?

The bad healthsysem in Ireland is probably better than 80% of the rest of the world.

"Expensive education" in Ireland is probably cheaper than 99% of places on earth.

What more can you except from a small bankrupt island like.


I grew up poor, I'm now working a low wage job, yet I'm still in a better position than most people on this planet..

Ireland is the best/easiest country to live in weather rich poor or in between, How can anyone disagree

That's a little unambitious for my taste.
Why look down on everybody who's doing worse than you and then decide to lay back and rest on your laurels? Why not look up to see who's doing better, and strive to match them?

irelandrover

Cluiche iascairi wrote: »

"The Poor" in Ireland are probably in the top 20% richest people on earth?

The bad healthsysem in Ireland is probably better than 80% of the rest of the world.

"Expensive education" in Ireland is probably cheaper than 99% of places on earth.

What more can you except from a small bankrupt island like.


I grew up poor, I'm now working a low wage job, yet I'm still in a better position than most people on this planet..

Ireland is the best/easiest country to live in weather rich poor or in between, How can anyone disagree

Have you actually lived anywhere else?
You keep saying Ireland is the best/easiest place to live but do you have experience of anywhere else?

thattequilagirl

I'm proud to be Irish. I like that we are a friendly people. I think our little country is basically a good one, but there is still plenty that could be improved.

Do you live in Dublin OP? How do you feel when you see homeless people? Or hear about old people on trolleys in hospital? If our country is the best, why are so many of our young people in Australia, Canada and New Zealand? It's not just about jobs, it's standard of living too. It's not hating Ireland to recognize the problems that exist.

Annasopra

A thinly veiled dole bashing thread. Haven't seen one of those in AH before.

Annasopra

Cluiche iascairi wrote: »

To be honest, you have a choice.. You can live a reasonable life, never go hungry and have loads of free time on the dole, or you can work hard, have loads of money, but very little time to spend it.. You can cripple yourself with a mortgage or wait out for a council house.. This is my point, you will live a easy life either way?

To be honest you really haven't got a clue about life at all if you think living on the dole is easy and carefree.

sullivlo

Joeytheparrot wrote: »

A thinly veiled dole bashing thread. Haven't seen one of those in AH before.

The exact opposite of dole bashing. Dole / welfare praising?

OP - of course I'm proud to be Irish. But am I proud of certain aspects of Irish life / culture? Certainly not.

I work full time. I pay my taxes. I signed on for 3 months between jobs and I was made go on a course to teach me how to get a job. I had to give my CV to a career guidance person, only to be told that it was perfect, that they could do nothing to help me, and to just keep on applying. If I didn't go to these sessions with the career guidance people, my dole would have been cut.

Meanwhile, my neighbour has been long term unemployed, has never had to go on the courses, and has explicitly stated that they will never get a job. It's not worth their while with everything provided for them. It pains me that my taxes go to this type of person, meanwhile my grandmother, who paid taxes all of her life, has had her medical card removed as she is €14 over the threshold for income for having one.

Social welfare should be there in the case of people who have fallen on hard times - illness benefit, disability benefit, people between jobs. It shouldn't be a lifestyle choice.

Annasopra

sullivlo wrote: »

The exact opposite of dole bashing. Dole / welfare praising?

What?

The OP is talking about people on the dole having an easy life with no money difficulties choosing to be sponge off social welfare

Nah that's not praising at all.

1 plenty of unemployed people do go hungry
2 life on the dole isn't an easy ride at all - your health is generally much worse, many life opportunities are restricted to you
3 He suggested noone on the dole goes hungry - completely naive
4 Sponging - yep typical dole bashing language

Lisacatlover

Not sure what I did Ireland wise that'd make me proud. Think I paid tax once, guess that counts? Dunno. It's just kind of happened whilst I was in the general vicinity... So wouldn't really be the kind of thing I'd take pride in?

Cluiche iascairi

People saying how can you be proud as ye did nothing.. Yes we we did, we work, pay taxes and vote.. The marriage equality thing is another great thing about this country.

I am neither dole bashing or dole praising, I'm praising my country. I lost my job due to an injury, my country looked after me while out of work. Anyone in this country can avial of our education system, welfare and healthcare, even if you don't work.

About the homeless, I have a very simple solution which ye won't like, but move out of the most expensive city in the country maybe? Its that simple!!

Abortion, yes, we probably should have a referendum on, and I'm.sure we are closer now to it than ever before. The religious nuts are dying off.

This thread proves exactly my point and has will not contribute anymore. Full of fcking whingers, never happy..

Shenshen

Cluiche iascairi wrote: »

People saying how can you be proud as ye did nothing.. Yes we we did, we work, pay taxes and vote.. The marriage equality thing is another great thing about this country.

And people in other countries don't do that?