Block beside riverpoint, time for development

dave 27

Hi guys, it's bugging me more and more everytime I pass this block, does anyone know who owns it?
It's completely dilapidated and a development like riverpoint would be ideal for the area with maybe a view to put in a mix or residential and commercial.
I know its been talked about but I think something needs to be done given the location and remodelled Street there

Poxyshamrock

dave 27 wrote: »

Hi guys, it's bugging me more and more everytime I pass this block, does anyone know who owns it?
It's completely dilapidated and a development like riverpoint would be ideal for the area with maybe a view to put in a mix or residential and commercial.
I know its been talked about but I think something needs to be done given the location and remodelled Street there

Is that the old ESB site you're talking about? I'd love to another highrise there.

dave 27

I think it is, it used to be a petrol station I think. Is there anything the public can do to help encourage development there? I'd love to know who owns it

testicle

That'd be Henry Street Garda Station. Good luck building a high rise there. The old ESB place is 2 blocks up.

dave 27

Do the guards own that tho? I know they were looking to expand but woukd it not make sence doing something with it?

Poxyshamrock

testicle wrote: »

That'd be Henry Street Garda Station. Good luck building a high rise there. The old ESB place is 2 blocks up.

The Garda station isn't dilapidated like the op mentions so I think he means the ESB.

zulutango

During the Celtic Tiger there were plans for the Garda Station to be moved. Maybe those could be resurrected.

The old ESB building is a prime site for development though. It's interesting that the council are buying up so many vacant sites and developing them, but not this one.

manna452121

The guards had plans to extend henry st upwards with two extra floors but they were refused planning.They now have two floors in the Eircom building next door.

Red King

If the ESB site, the derelict Dunnes on Sarsfield bridge, Cleeves factory and the awful building beside Arthurs Quay were all knocked and redeveloped it would be one hell of a change to the riverfront.

zulutango

Red King wrote: »

If the ESB site, the derelict Dunnes on Sarsfield bridge, Cleeves factory and the awful building beside Arthurs Quay were all knocked and redeveloped it would be one hell of a change to the riverfront.

One of the real missed opportunities on the riverfront was Harvey's Quay (Milanos, new Dunnes Stores). It's a god awfully ****e building for such a good site.

As for the old Dunnes Stores, there won't be anything happening with that for a while. Apparently the council tried to engage with Dunnes but negotiations fell apart and the relationship soured.

Poxyshamrock

zulutango wrote: »

One of the real missed opportunities on the riverfront was Harvey's Quay (Milanos, new Dunnes Stores). It's a god awfully ****e building for such a good site.

Speaking of Harvey's Quay and Milano, has anyone ever noticed the large unit overhead Milano but underneath the apartments. It's been empty since it was built. I'm surprised an office or something has never gone in there. There doesn't appear to be any wheelchair access though so maybe that's why.

zulutango

Poxyshamrock wrote: »

Speaking of Harvey's Quay and Milano, has anyone ever noticed the large unit overhead Milano but underneath the apartments. It's been empty since it was built. I'm surprised an office or something has never gone in there. There doesn't appear to be any wheelchair access though so maybe that's why.

There was an application for planning permission a few months back to do some work with the stairs and lift. They might be gearing up to get some retail or offices in there. Planning number is 15701 if you want to check it out.

Red King

You are right. That building basically just continued the habit of our riverfront being ignored, the back of the building has what, two retail units? One of which is Milano, which for some reason just looks like the most boring restaurant on the planet. I don't know why, but I'd never be encouraged to go in there it always looks deserted.

Red King

Actually looking at it there on google maps it is just downright depressing to see the beautiful riverfront from Riverpoint to Pier One all but deserted and devoid of life. You have Milano and Cafe Crust and nothing else. The whole front there should be lined with cafes, bars and shops.

They've made a complete balls of it.

zulutango

yep, they made a total balls of the river front there. And I think the more recent public realm work was a bit of a **** up too. For some bizarre reason they kept two lanes for traffic and that meant that in order to have a spacious pedestrian area they had to have a boardwalk out over the river. It looks hideous from the other side of the river, it's difficult to maintain to any decent standard, it cost a fortune and they did completely compromised the integrity of a historic quay wall.

ongarboy

Red King wrote: »

If the ESB site, the derelict Dunnes on Sarsfield bridge, Cleeves factory and the awful building beside Arthurs Quay were all knocked and redeveloped it would be one hell of a change to the riverfront.

It appears that the Cleeves site is at least being considered for development according to this week's Leader.

http://www.limerickleader.ie/news/home/205006/Former-Cleeve-s-factory-in-Limerick.html

zulutango

Given the big plans for the Cleeves site, the obvious place to put an iconic footbridge, seeing as they're so intent on it, is across the river from O'Callaghan Strand to Howley's Quay rather than in the very sensitive location they're gunning for. This seems to have escaped the brains in the city council though.

Red King

zulutango wrote: »

Given the big plans for the Cleeves site, the obvious place to put an iconic footbridge, seeing as they're so intent on it, is across the river from O'Callaghan Strand to Howley's Quay rather than in the very sensitive location they're gunning for. This seems to have escaped the brains in the city council though.

I think while a better choice than what is proposed it would still ruin the three bridge look of our riverfront.

And a footbridge anywhere as accessible and visible as the proposed location or your suggestion would quickly turn into a suicide hotspot given the epidemic of suicides and attempts from the current bridges in place.

Vanquished

Red King wrote: »

And a footbridge anywhere as accessible and visible as the proposed location or your suggestion would quickly turn into a suicide hotspot given the epidemic of suicides and attempts from the current bridges in place.

There is very much an over-fixation on the river when it comes to commentary on the issue of suicide in Limerick. The problem is far deeper and more complex than that and the provision of adequate mental health facilities and resources is the way to attempt to address it. There are a myriad of reasons why people take their own lives and these need to be understood and tackled.

Opposition to a footbridge wherever it may be for fear that people might throw themselves off it completely misses the point. No doubt it's well-intentioned but it's as misguided as the call a few years back to erect large barriers all along the riverside to prevent people jumping in!

zulutango

Red King wrote: »

I think while a better choice than what is proposed it would still ruin the three bridge look of our riverfront.

Do you think so? I'm not sure but I wouldn't have considered it nearly as sensitive a vista as where they're proposing to put one.

Red King wrote: »

And a footbridge anywhere as accessible and visible as the proposed location or your suggestion would quickly turn into a suicide hotspot given the epidemic of suicides and attempts from the current bridges in place.

I'd agree with Vanquished on his point. The suicide issue is more complex than simply limiting the places where people can throw themselves into the river from.

Red King

zulutango wrote: »

Do you think so? I'm not sure but I wouldn't have considered it nearly as sensitive a vista as where they're proposing to put one.



I'd agree with Vanquished on his point. The suicide issue is more complex than simply limiting the places where people can throw themselves into the river from.

Yeah there is a nice balance at the moment with the three bridges. I don't see any need for a footbridge along the river. The three existing bridges are not that far apart as it is.

As for the suicide thing, yeah of course it is more complex than that but from the emergency services point of view I was thinking a footbridge would perhaps make things more awkward in terms of reacting to reports of someone in trouble. I mean, you regularly see the fire service stopped on the bridge when someone is in the water, a foot bridge means they would have to stop a distance away and get there on foot. Time can make all the difference in these situations regarding talking someone down or rescuing them from the water.

Just an idea, I know the emergency services would have their own more informed opinion on this.

stefanovich

dave 27 wrote: »

Hi guys, it's bugging me more and more everytime I pass this block, does anyone know who owns it?
It's completely dilapidated and a development like riverpoint would be ideal for the area with maybe a view to put in a mix or residential and commercial.
I know its been talked about but I think something needs to be done given the location and remodelled Street there

Eircom building or garda station? Eircom building is scary, remember being in a flat there about 15 years ago and my god the lift.

There's a tonne of ugly as **** buildings in Limerick which should knocked. First on my list is Arthur's Quay.

Special Circumstances

stefanovich wrote: »

Eircom building or garda station? Eircom building is scary, remember being in a flat there about 15 years ago and my god the lift.

There's a tonne of ugly as **** buildings in Limerick which should knocked. First on my list is Arthur's Quay.

Sarsfield house. The old dunnes. City hall / courts monstrosity next to castle. Several buildings in the eircom building, garda station area*. Arthurs Quay wouldn't be high on my list, it's no beauty but there's much worse.

*seems the esb building may be one of them.

Vanquished

There's a prime site between Henry Street and the river crying out to be re-developed. The ESB building was sold early last year but nothing has happened in the meantime. The former Eircom office contributes nothing to the streetscape and needs to be either extensively refurbished or replaced. The 1970s Garda HQ with the car park to the rear is a hopelessly wasteful use of an important site and a new location for a modern divisional Garda headquarters needs to be found so the existing site can be redeveloped. Unfortunately though some funding has been allocated recently for refurbishments so it looks like it's staying put for the time being.

There is the potential for a cluster of high quality office and residential accommodation on those sites which would bring more investment, jobs and residents in to the city centre.

Townie_P

Vanquished wrote: »

There's a prime site between Henry Street and the river crying out to be re-developed. The ESB building was sold early last year but nothing has happened in the meantime. The former Eircom office contributes nothing to the streetscape and needs to be either extensively refurbished or replaced. The 1970s Garda HQ with the car park to the rear is a hopelessly wasteful use of an important site and a new location for a modern divisional Garda headquarters needs to be found so the existing site can be redeveloped. Unfortunately though some funding has been allocated recently for refurbishments so it looks like it's staying put for the time being.

There is the potential for a cluster of high quality office and residential accommodation on those sites which would bring more investment, jobs and residents in to the city centre.

The Maternity Hospital on the Ennis Road is due to be relocated at some stage to Dooradoyle. The current Maternity site would be a perfect relocation for Henry Street Garda Station for both size and location. Along with the Hanging Gardens development, the redevelopment of that block from the Garda Station down to the ESB building has the potential to rejuvenate both Henry Street and the Waterfront. Whatever gets built facing the waterfront should only be of the highest quality, should be architecturally spectacular and unique, should complement the current high rises Riverpoint and Clarion and at street level the priority should be cafés, restaurants and bars so as to develop a genuine waterfront tourist/visitor destination area. Hopefully the mistakes of the past have been learned and buildings like Steamboat Quay, Clohesseys Bar and Dunnes Howley's Quay will never be allowed to be built again. Steamboat Quay in particular is a monstrosity that needs bulldozing.

zulutango

The Clarion should never have been permitted in that location. Awful eyesore.

phill106

zulutango wrote: »

The Clarion should never have been permitted in that location. Awful eyesore.

Because it is blocking the view of the dump behind it?
No issues with the clarion or riverpoint myself

zulutango

phill106 wrote: »

Because it is blocking the view of the dump behind it?
No issues with the clarion or riverpoint myself

It's way too dominant for where it is. If it was a more impressive building, I'd say fair enough, but it's really not that impressive. Also, if there were other tall buildings around it then it wouldn't be so bad.

zulutango

Townie_P wrote: »

Hopefully the mistakes of the past have been learned and buildings like Steamboat Quay, Clohesseys Bar and Dunnes Howley's Quay will never be allowed to be built again. Steamboat Quay in particular is a monstrosity that needs bulldozing.

The mistakes of the past won't be learned so long as there is no city architect / urban design office with executive functions in the city hall. At the moment the development of the city is been overseen by people who are not qualified to do so.

Cookiemunster

zulutango wrote: »

It's way too dominant for where it is. If it was a more impressive building, I'd say fair enough, but it's really not that impressive. Also, if there were other tall buildings around it then it wouldn't be so bad.

I have to agree with phill106 and totally disagree with this. I think the Clarion looks great where it is and it's not exactly far from the Riverpoint building. Both look great as you come across the Shannon bridge. It's just a pity that the Garda station and the ESB site are in such a poor state as, in my opinion, from across the river the the quays from Sarsfield Bridge to the Clarion look very well.

zulutango

Cookiemunster wrote: »

I have to agree with phill106 and totally disagree with this. I think the Clarion looks great where it is and it's not exactly far from the Riverpoint building. Both look great as you come across the Shannon bridge. It's just a pity that the Garda station and the ESB site are in such a poor state as, in my opinion, from across the river the the quays from Sarsfield Bridge to the Clarion look very well.

The building at Harvey's Quay (Milano's, Dunnes Stores) is a real blemish on that waterfront. The Bridgewater apartments are pretty damn poor too. Seamus Carr's building (Clohessy's, etc) and Riverpoint are good though. And at least the two sites you mentioned haven't been developed yet, so there's hope for those. The boardwalk is a real eyesore from across the river and that's a shame because it was very unnecessary. A much less expensive and less ugly public realm job could have been done there without needing to build the boardwalk.

jmch81

The empty offices in Harvey's Quay are to be occupied by one of the big four accountancy firms. Can't remember which one at the moment.

I drove past the ESB site yesterday during the day and they were drilling for core samples in the carpark.

mynameis905

zulutango wrote: »

The building at Harvey's Quay (Milano's, Dunnes Stores) is a real blemish on that waterfront. The Bridgewater apartments are pretty damn poor too. Seamus Carr's building (Clohessy's, etc) and Riverpoint are good though. And at least the two sites you mentioned haven't been developed yet, so there's hope for those. The boardwalk is a real eyesore from across the river and that's a shame because it was very unnecessary. A much less expensive and less ugly public realm job could have been done there without needing to build the boardwalk.

+1

The apartments above Milanos are pretty grim looking.

Townie_P

zulutango wrote: »

It's way too dominant for where it is. If it was a more impressive building, I'd say fair enough, but it's really not that impressive. Also, if there were other tall buildings around it then it wouldn't be so bad.

The Clarion is fine, it's what's around it that 's the problem. That whole dock road area as you approach the city could be so much better if everything except the Clarion was leveled. Steamboat Quay and that Skate park are awful. You could either level Steamboat Quay and open up the whole area with a public space or replace Steamboat Quay with another quality high rise.

It's also a terrible shame that the waterfront area preceding the clarion is basically a junk yard. If the dock road area was opened up from the Bannatyne Mill (another wasted gem) all the way in to the city it would transform the area. You could have something similar to the Albert Dock in Liverpool. The current approach in to the city is depressing.

Red King

Agree with the points made above. Ultimately however the people of Limerick need to accept a certain amount of responsibility for the mess that we are in, after all, we are the ones who keep electing these plastic waterheads that comprise the city council and their gombeen overlords at national level.

We are electing the wrong people and then complaining when they make a balls of things. One can always point to the poor candidates put forward and have a point but it is beyond obvious now that the political parties aren't interested in putting forward decent candidates. So the people of Limerick need to come together and find/encourage the right people to run for office. Frankly we need to wrestle control of our city back from the underperforming status quo snout in the trough brigade.

Only then can we begin to envisage building a city where we can all enjoy a higher quality of life, a city that is meeting its potential and offering everyone a chance to improve their lot in life. A living, breathing city that embraces its heritage, the environment and the citizens instead of the current situation where a small group of corporate whores use the city as a personal plaything to feather their own nests, embarrass us all in the process and make a complete arse of the city for generations to come.

phill106

zulutango wrote: »

It's way too dominant for where it is. If it was a more impressive building, I'd say fair enough, but it's really not that impressive. Also, if there were other tall buildings around it then it wouldn't be so bad.

Tall buildings like riverpoint? seems close enough?
Plus if tall buildings should only have tall buildings around them, where does the 1st tall building go?!

Cookiemunster

Red King wrote: »

Agree with the points made above. Ultimately however the people of Limerick need to accept a certain amount of responsibility for the mess that we are in, after all, we are the ones who keep electing these plastic waterheads that comprise the city council and their gombeen overlords at national level.

We are electing the wrong people and then complaining when they make a balls of things. One can always point to the poor candidates put forward and have a point but it is beyond obvious now that the political parties aren't interested in putting forward decent candidates. So the people of Limerick need to come together and find/encourage the right people to run for office. Frankly we need to wrestle control of our city back from the underperforming status quo snout in the trough brigade.

Only then can we begin to envisage building a city where we can all enjoy a higher quality of life, a city that is meeting its potential and offering everyone a chance to improve their lot in life. A living, breathing city that embraces its heritage, the environment and the citizens instead of the current situation where a small group of corporate whores use the city as a personal plaything to feather their own nests, embarrass us all in the process and make a complete arse of the city for generations to come.

The council is a talking shop with no real power. If you're going to blame anyone it's the city manager and various directors of services. Although saying that I think you're going a bit overboard with the whole corporate whore spiel.

dave 27

Another welcomed development woukd be of the hotel just at the end of sarsfields bridge on the city side, the name escapes me, but if we saw something shiney and modern there too it woukd open that while area up and you never know dunnes might eventually do something then about their building!

Vanquished

The Dock Road is grim.There's no escaping that reality. The sporadic development of industrial buildings, warehouses, petrol stations etc over the years has given it a fairly haphazard appearance. The council had earmarked it for one of their comical masterplans about a decade ago that would've seen it transformed in to some kind of continental style boulevard!! Needless to say absolutely nothing of the sort has been achieved. That said an upgrade of the road surface, footpaths, streetlighting and if possible the installation of cycle lanes would make a positive difference.

Closer to the city centre the Limerick port operations complicate matters a little. There are a lot of dead frontages along the port side of the road and it would be desirable if the port company could rationalise their land holdings and sell off unused sites that they no longer require. They were talking about doing this over the last number of years although I don't think much has happened. They did restore Bannatynes mill in the hope of increasing its attractiveness to investors and potential occupiers but it remains empty. The docklands and especially the area adjacent to the Clarion would be an excellent location for new, high quality city centre apartments along the lines of what has been achieved at the strand complex.

Bord Gais are also preparing their large former gasworks site fronting Dock Road and O'Curry Street for development. I'd imagine a residential scheme would be the most likely future use here.

Townie_P

Vanquished wrote: »

The Dock Road is grim.There's no escaping that reality. The sporadic development of industrial buildings, warehouses, petrol stations etc over the years has given it a fairly haphazard appearance. The council had earmarked it for one of their comical masterplans about a decade ago that would've seen it transformed in to some kind of continental style boulevard!! Needless to say absolutely nothing of the sort has been achieved. That said an upgrade of the road surface, footpaths, streetlighting and if possible the installation of cycle lanes would make a positive difference.

Closer to the city centre the Limerick port operations complicate matters a little. There are a lot of dead frontages along the port side of the road and it would be desirable if the port company could rationalise their land holdings and sell off unused sites that they no longer require. They were talking about doing this over the last number of years although I don't think much has happened. They did restore Bannatynes mill in the hope of increasing its attractiveness to investors and potential occupiers but it remains empty. The docklands and especially the area adjacent to the Clarion would be an excellent location for new, high quality city centre apartments along the lines of what has been achieved at the strand complex.

Seeing as millions is being invested in Foynes port, could most port operations not be moved out there? There is the potential for a top class marina, mooring area and Boulevard where the current operations are. Could also create a major new water tourism attraction for the City.

Vanquished wrote: »

Bord Gais are also preparing their large former gasworks site fronting Dock Road and O'Curry Street for development. I'd imagine a residential scheme would be the most likely future use here.

About time, they applied to clean the site in 2012 and it only got going late last year. It'll probably be 2018 before it's ready for use again, and no doubt it'll be put on the market for sale then. It's a whopper of a site, huge potential for quality residential/hotel/modern offices or even as a third level campus. Again a very important site so whatever goes in there needs to be quality.

Red King

The last thing needed is another hotel!

Limerick Dude

Townie_P wrote: »

About time, they applied to clean the site in 2012 and it only got going late last year. It'll probably be 2018 before it's ready for use again, and no doubt it'll be put on the market for sale then. It's a whopper of a site, huge potential for quality residential/hotel/modern offices or even as a third level campus. Again a very important site so whatever goes in there needs to be quality.

[

I think there was a lot of environmental remediation that needed to be done on site before it could be developed. Think there was a lot of run off into the soil over the years which needed to be sorted before any development could take place.