1990 Car given 1998 reg at VRT

Kingslash

Hello everyone,

So I got my car VRTed today, a 1990 Toyota Celica GT-4 Japanese Import. The reg number they gave me was a 98 - D. I explained to the guy that the car was first made/registered in Japan in 1990 and that the model was discontinued in 1992.

He pointed out that V5C form said it was registered in the uk in 1998, and the first registered date just below that was exactly the same, so that's the date he had to go with. I argued that clearly this car is older than that, 8 years older in fact, but he was adament that he had to go by that date.

I was planning to get classic insurance on the car, but now it appears to be only 18 years old when in fact its 26.

Does anyone know what I can do about this, or if there is anything I can do? As its a bank holiday there's nobody I can call and there doesn't appear to be much online about similar issues with 2nd hand cars.

Any advice greatly appreciated.

OldmanMondeo

Unless the car was a late registered car, not unusual, but very late in this case. Remember the reg plate goes by the date of registersation and not the build date.

Nash Bridges

Was the car registered elsewhere (Japan perhaps) before 1998 in the UK? If not 98 does seem accurate.

Kingslash

It was imported from Japan at some stage, so would have been registered there first, its had 8 owners so hard to trace. All I had was the V5C form with the date that it was first register in the UK, which is the date they went with. They kept the V5C form so I can't double check whether it mentioned 1990 anywhere on it.

My main concern is what the insurance company will make of it. Will they consider it a 1998 car now and thus ineligible for classic insurance or will they understand that although registered in 98, the car is 26 years old and counts as a classic?

CiniO

Registaration number is based on "date of first registration".
Not date of manufacture.
So you can't do anything with the reg.

However there is a field in your logbook which should state manufacture date - that is B2. Unfortunately I didn't yet see a car which would have different year in that field than year of first registration.

Check what is says in that field in your logbook.
If it says 1998 (which I'm pretty sure it does), I would argue with them, that it's a mistake as car which wasn't manufactured since 1992 can not have manufacture date of 1998.

Once you manage to have that corrected, you can try to show to your insurer that car is 26 years old as date of manufacture is 1990 so you can avail of classic insurance.

galwaytt

Kingslash wrote: »

Hello everyone,

So I got my car VRTed today, a 1990 Toyota Celica GT-4 Japanese Import. The reg number they gave me was a 98 - D. I explained to the guy that the car was first made/registered in Japan in 1990 and that the model was discontinued in 1992.

He pointed out that V5C form said it was registered in the uk in 1998, and the first registered date just below that was exactly the same, so that's the date he had to go with. I argued that clearly this car is older than that, 8 years older in fact, but he was adament that he had to go by that date.

I was planning to get classic insurance on the car, but now it appears to be only 18 years old when in fact its 26.

Does anyone know what I can do about this, or if there is anything I can do? As its a bank holiday there's nobody I can call and there doesn't appear to be much online about similar issues with 2nd hand cars.

Any advice greatly appreciated.

A letter from Toyota confirming date of manufacture by VIN number should be all Revenue need to change it.

Kingslash

The VRT guy kept the V5C form, so I have nothing to produce now. He said once I taxed it the motor office would send me a new reg cert, but that will surely say 1998, since that's what the VRT centre put it down as.

Kingslash

galwaytt wrote: »

A letter from Toyota confirming date of manufacture by VIN number should be all Revenue need to change it.

I'll get on to Toyota on tuesday about it, I never even thought of going directly to them. Thank you!

Kenny Logins

It goes by first registration date regardless of where that is but without any documentation from Japan there's not much they can do. If you're lucky they might accept proof of a VIN build week, and give you December 31st of that year.

I have a car from Hong Kong that was imported into UK in '94, and the reg year here was taken from the HK date but only because I had the paperwork to prove it.

colm_mcm

Saw this nearly happen before with a Japanese import that was registered in the uk and then imported here. It's an error.
Did it have a uk 98 reg (that would be R or S reg?) uk reg should have the correct first reg year abroad on it. If it's 90 it should have a G or H Plate.

peteb2

I wouldn't have thought you'd get a Celica covered under classic car insurance

colm_mcm

Why not? A GT4 is rare and old

jca

colm_mcm wrote: »

Saw this nearly happen before with a Japanese import that was registered in the uk and then imported here. It's an error.
Did it have a uk 98 reg (that would be R or S reg?) uk reg should have the correct first reg year abroad on it. If it's 90 it should have a G or H Plate.

That's a good point unless it had a personalised plate, but it certainly would be a sound argument if it had a 90 year letter.

gctest50

colm_mcm wrote: »

Why not? A GT4 is rare and old

and lovely

Kingslash

colm_mcm wrote: »

Saw this nearly happen before with a Japanese import that was registered in the uk and then imported here. It's an error.
Did it have a uk 98 reg (that would be R or S reg?) uk reg should have the correct first reg year abroad on it. If it's 90 it should have a G or H Plate.

The first letter is U, but since these are NI plates and not mainland britain plates, I thought the first 2/3 letters denoted the region, rather than the age.

jca

Kingslash wrote: »

The first letter is U, but since these are NI plates and not mainland britain plates, I thought the first 2/3 letters denoted the region, rather than the age.

Oh. NI is different as they dont have a year letter. What were the first 3 letters? Although I don't think it'll be any help because as far as I know there's no provision for older imports, you just got the next number in the sequence.

Esel

Write to the DVLA (or the NI equivalent). They should have the real date of first registration on file.

Hope you get this sorted.

kuro2k

Kingslash wrote: »

The VRT guy kept the V5C form, so I have nothing to produce now. He said once I taxed it the motor office would send me a new reg cert, but that will surely say 1998, since that's what the VRT centre put it down as.

If you tax the car you won't be able to correct the year on the reg plate so make sure you exhaust all other options before you do

Kingslash

So the DVLA wont help, as they say the only thing they have on file is what was on the V5C form in the first place.

The revenue people are poxy hard to get hold off, I'm waiting to hear back from them. NCT people wouldn't deal with my query or give out the number of any of the VRT centers.

In the meantime I've found a government website which shows date of registration (1998) as well as date of manufacture (1990). I know this probably wont be enough but hopefully it will be enough to get them to discuss it with me, as so far I'm being passed from pillar to post.

I'm gonna print it out and bring it to the vrt center tomorrow and see what they say. Also sent an email to Toyota looking for more information, hopefully they get back to me tomorrow before I drive down.

I can't really think of what else I can do. I thought about explaining the situation to insurance companies to see what their stance would be re: classic insurance but I'm not sure if I'd be blacklisting the car by doing so if they refuse it.

Titzon Toast

What a ridiculous situation, you get lots of law but no justice!
I hope you get sorted out OP, good luck.

aaakev

It really does sound like this car wasn't registered until 98

Kingslash

aaakev wrote: »

It really does sound like this car wasn't registered until 98

Certainly in the UK I'm sure it wasn't, but there's no way it was sitting in a lot for 8 years in Japan before it was imported to the UK. Normally they come off the boat with a deregistration cert and an export cert apparently. I've no idea why these wouldn't have been used to show previous registration when it was being registered first in the UK. I don't have them now anyway.

I've found a few websites that say they can send them on once the frame number(VIN) is provided but it costs $75 and the sites don't look overly legit.

liam7831

Did you not look at the V5 before you bought car?

Charles Babbage

Kingslash wrote: »

The first letter is U, but since these are NI plates and not mainland britain plates, I thought the first 2/3 letters denoted the region, rather than the age.

The last two letters are the county, but of course the first letter is issued sequentially, so it gives a good indication.

simdan

At least you have a lovely car with a bulletproof engine..

Do you have any pics?

colm_mcm

Is there any chance it was registered as a kit car, like an SVA test? Not too up on these things but is it a possibility?

TrailerBob

It's a pain of a predicament, but not unheard of, as here the date of first registration is want they go by as others have said. For example my Jeep is a (July) 03 reg , because that's when it was sold (obviously sat on the forecourt for a good while), while Toyota finished manufacturing them in May 2002- which is it's build date on the vin..

Perhaps the UK DVLA insisted it got a current year plate when brought in there, and that's all Paddy will accept because it's too much hassle if it's not on the piece of paper. Hope it gets sorted because they're a seriously nice car

savagethegoat

did it have a Q registration when it was in the UK? That is for vehicles where it hasn't been possible to determine their date of origin.

ondafly

that's a real pain of a predicament, but hopefully common sense with the revenue comes true. Because if you can get it to a 1990 reg, you only have 4 years or so until classic tax kicks in, which would be a decent saving over the current rate.

colm_mcm

savagethegoat wrote: »

did it have a Q registration when it was in the UK? That is for vehicles where it hasn't been possible to determine their date of origin.

northern Ireland car though

savagethegoat

colm_mcm wrote: »

northern Ireland car though

presumably there is a NI equivalent.?

Just checked "QNI"...never seen one.

Tigger

Date of manufacture is irrelevant I have a email from dept of the environment from years ago when I wanted to get a 1978 built car with a first registered in 1980 v5 a 78 or 79 plate
A letter from Toyota will do nothing and I think a cert from Japan would only count if you get it registered in Japan and import it off that cert or if you get the v5 changed using the letter from Japan and both these are going to be hard to do.
While I think getting the insurance might be possible I had a problem with them going by Reg date as well even though they agreed the car was acually 20 years old it was a late Reg and so no classic insurance. The no cheap tax in 2020 is the biggest rub tho.

Kingslash

liam7831 wrote: »

Did you not look at the V5 before you bought car?

First time I've ever bought a UK car, I didn't realise it went on registration rather than manufacture date.

Kingslash

simdan wrote: »

At least you have a lovely car with a bulletproof engine..

Do you have any pics?

Seems I can't post urls, so... http: // imgur.com/NOsUwh4

Kenny Logins

Tigger wrote: »

Date of manufacture is irrelevant I have a email from dept of the environment from years ago when I wanted to get a 1978 built car with a first registered in 1980 v5 a 78 or 79 plate
A letter from Toyota will do nothing and I think a cert from Japan would only count if you get it registered in Japan and import it off that cert or if you get the v5 changed using the letter from Japan and both these are going to be hard to do.
While I think getting the insurance might be possible I had a problem with them going by Reg date as well even though they agreed the car was acually 20 years old it was a late Reg and so no classic insurance. The no cheap tax in 2020 is the biggest rub tho.

In the absence of any paperwork to prove first reg date, they may register on the VIN build date and put it down as 31st of December of that year. That's what I was told when registering mine.

Tigger

Kenny Logins wrote: »

In the absence of any paperwork to prove first reg date, they may register on the VIN build date and put it down as 31st of December of that year. That's what I was told when registering mine.

was that off a car that had been previously regged but with no way of determining when ? was it a Q plate
there is paperwork in this case the v5 showed it was first regged in 98
a Q plate (or northern plate equivalent) wouldn't have a date on it would it

i wish the op would tell us what the reg had been

Kenny Logins

Tigger wrote: »

was that off a car that had been previously regged but with no way of determining when ? was it a Q plate
there is paperwork in this case the v5 showed it was first regged in 98
a Q plate (or northern plate equivalent) wouldn't have a date on it would it

i wish the op would tell us what the reg had been

Yeah, mine was imported into UK in the '90s, but originally from Hong Kong. I had paperwork from HK though, so it was reg'd for the correct date here.

Now that you mention it, it was an X reg so maybe that's what they were going on when December 31st was mentioned and not the build date.

The car in question on this thread had an NI reg though, so a different set up.

savagethegoat

http://imgur.com/NOsUwh4

Kopparberg Strawberry and Lime

I wish i still worked in the insuance company so i could test my computer and underwriter with this.

I recall having a section for reg number which technically is just a number for a registered vehicle. There was also a section for year of manufacture.

Ring an insurance company and get a quote but give them the reg number and give them the 1990 date.

Some insurance companies automatically get the details from the reg but if that is through the vin im not sure. If it isint from the vin then it might be trouble but if the details are coming from the vin then they should have the 1990 date built into it.

If that gets you classic insurance though is another question.

I sugfest ringing axa main centre for insurance sales since they do the different type of policies.

But really VRT should change the date on the plate with sufficient evidence

milltown

Any chance the GT4 was a track toy for someone in Japan and never actually saw a public road until it got to the UK/NI?

Kopparberg Strawberry and Lime

Heres a question ...

Is a 1990 car the cheap vintage tax ?

If it is how much is the motortax website charging to tax this car ?

Is it the vintage rate or normal car rate ?

savagethegoat

not yet

Kingslash

colm_mcm wrote: »

Is there any chance it was registered as a kit car, like an SVA test? Not too up on these things but is it a possibility?

milltown wrote: »

Any chance the GT4 was a track toy for someone in Japan and never actually saw a public road until it got to the UK/NI?

Possibly, I have absolutely no history for it from it's time in Japan. I find it unlikely that someone would buy a brand new road car and use it as a track toy and it not have any damage/replacements. The turbo and related parts are all original.

Skatedude

classic insurance starts at 15 years or older so you should still be able to get it even for a 98 , but it would be nice if you can sort it out so you can get the cheaper road tax in a few years.

Tigger

was it an QNI reg?
its nice and clean how much vrt did they hit you with?

Kingslash

Tigger wrote: »

was it an QNI reg?
its nice and clean how much vrt did they hit you with?

No, it's not QNI, it's UBZ, but they seem to be region. None of them relate to age.

It was €948. Should have been €810 according to the calculator but the guy said it was probably higher because it's a "younger" car than the 1990 I was putting into the calculator....

Tigger

Skatedude wrote: »

classic insurance starts at 15 years or older so you should still be able to get it even for a 98 , but it would be nice if you can sort it out so you can get the cheaper road tax in a few years.

not on japs afaik or if you know better let me know cos i've a 00 mx5 i'd love to be able to add to my classic policy

Tigger

Kingslash wrote: »

No, it's not QNI, it's UBZ, but they seem to be region. None of them relate to age.

It was €948. Should have been €810 according to the calculator but the guy said it was probably higher because it's a "younger" car than the 1990 I was putting into the calculator....

did it go straight into Northern Ireland from Japan or was it in Britian first?

savagethegoat

Kingslash wrote: »

No, it's not QNI, it's UBZ, but they seem to be region. None of them relate to age.

It was €948. Should have been €810 according to the calculator but the guy said it was probably higher because it's a "younger" car than the 1990 I was putting into the calculator....

having paid the VRT, you can appeal it. Have all your info lined up, with a letter from a relevant club and/or a main dealer. I would be fairly confident you will get a 1990 if you can show that's when it was built and the UK date is unreliable.

Tigger

savagethegoat wrote: »

having paid the VRT, you can appeal it. Have all your info lined up, with a letter from a relevant club and/or a main dealer. I would be fairly confident you will get a 1990 if you can show that's when it was built and the UK date is unreliable.

i'll bet you that without evidence of it being regged before 98 then he hasn't a hope, unfortunatly

Senna

It could have been an un-reg'd import from Japan, it does happen, but most likely it's a mistake by the DVLA, 1998 was the import date and the person entering the details just entered the 1998 date as date of first registration in Japan too.
As we use date of first registration and you have no way to prove that the car was registered in Japan, then it's a lost cause.