Strange noise when braking

DarraghR

In the past few weeks I have noticed my (Nissan Primera 2004) car making a strange noise when braking at traffic lights. It sounds like a rumbling noise coming from the back of the car.

Another noise I have heard is grinding but I guess that means my break pads need to be changed? I have had the car for 3 and a half years and never changed them.

Whats the best way to find out with the rumbling noise is and should I take a tyre off to check the break pads. What will I be looking for?

savagethegoat

sounds like you need a mechanic

Nekarsulm

Look at the rear brake disks through a hole in the wheel. Is the disk smooth, or rough and scored? Sounds like your pads are worn down to the metal.

Atlantic Dawn

Best get it looked at as if the pads are down to the metal they will destroy the brake discs meaning you will have to replace them too.

biko

Take a wheel off and look at closest pad, check how much material is left.
Also look at disc, is there a pronounced lip on it?


Old pad versus new


Brake disc lip



You might be able to see these things without even taking the wheel off at all.

If in doubt, go to a local mechanic.

DarraghR

I got one of my house mates to look at the pads and discs so he think its just my back pads that need replacing. I removed the driver side front and back wheel. The thing is I heard most of the noise coming from the back left so will pop that off later and take a look

Hal1

The discs need replacing by the looks of them. A lot of surface scoring and a bit of an edge forming on the inner and outer part of the disc's. Do them in pairs to guarantee even braking. How's the brake pedal feel anyway?

brembo26

Definitely needs rear pads anyway.

Get someone to make sure the calipers are not sticking too. Very common for that to happen on this car.

DarraghR

Hal1 wrote: »

The discs need replacing by the looks of them. A lot of surface scoring and a bit of an edge forming on the inner and outer part of the disc's. Do them in pairs to guarantee even braking. How's the brake pedal feel anyway?

The discs are quite smooth though. Got rear pads earlier so will try and fit them Thursday. Hopefully they wont cause me too much hassle. The pedal feels fine no issues there but I am avoiding any harsh breaking as the back left is making a horrible sound. Pads on that side could be down to the metal

brembo26 wrote: »

Definitely needs rear pads anyway.

Get someone to make sure the calipers are not sticking too. Very common for that to happen on this car.

What are the calipers!?

brembo26

Do not be waiting till Thursday to change brake pads are you mad?

Your car does not have the braking power that it should at the moment. Thats a safety issue for you and other road users aswell as causing further damage to the brake components.

The brake calipers are basically what squeezes the brake pads on the brake disc which stops you when you press the brake pedal. These can seize up and cause excessive wear on your brake pads and discs and also cause excessive heat.

Nekarsulm

DarraghR wrote: »

The discs are quite smooth though. Got rear pads earlier so will try and fit them Thursday. Hopefully they wont cause me too much hassle. The pedal feels fine no issues there but I am avoiding any harsh breaking as the back left is making a horrible sound. Pads on that side


What are the calipers!?

The steel things that hold the pads, and squeeze them against the disks. Some times the sliding part of them seized, and only puts pressure on one pad. So you could have a perfect looking pad and disk on the outer side, but a worn out pad and scored disk on the inner (hidden) side.

Edit. Beat me to it, Brembo!

biko

Where are you based OP? If in Galway city I can show you.

FortySeven

DarraghR wrote: »

The discs are quite smooth though. Got rear pads earlier so will try and fit them Thursday. Hopefully they wont cause me too much hassle. The pedal feels fine no issues there but I am avoiding any harsh breaking as the back left is making a horrible sound. Pads on that side could be down to the metal



What are the calipers!?

I hope you're not planning to fit them yourself? Someone asking what a caliper is should not be messing with brakes.
I'm all for diy but a bit of knowledge is required before attempting to maintain such a safety critical component.

DarraghR

Im sure its time consuming but is it really that hard to replace pads!? The back left wheel is giving the most trouble so I went to take it off but it wont budge. Could this be down to rust. I used WD40 and tried loosing it by kicking from the back

frozenfrozen

bring it to a professional. if you don't want to do that then loosen the nuts and drive around a bit, the wheel will come free. Don't blame me if you **** it up

and don't kick it you'll only hurt yourself

biko

If the wheel won't come off after you've removed the nuts then a few kicks should break it loose.

Nekarsulm

Kicking the inside of the tyre might shift it, but more likely jack will move and the car will fall on you.

But if you go ahead with the job, you'll probably need an allen key or allen key socket, and a large G clamp like carpenter's use. Never worked on a Primera, but others might be able to help.

shietpilot

I would chock the wheels, turn off the handbrake and lift the left rear of the car. Then kick the tyre at the side of the tyre and turn the wheel a bit. Keep kicking and turning until the wheel comes off. It should come off in a turn or two...

biko

Make sure car is rock solid on stands before you kick the tyre. The whole car will move sideways.

eezipc

Jaysus, stall the digger there.
I think we can all agree that the best thing here is to stop everything and go to a mechanic.
It won't cost too much to repair the brakes. If you're not sure what you are doing, it's very dangerous trying to change the brakes yourself. Dangerous for yourself and everyone else on the road.
For some piece of mind, bring the car to a garage.

biko

biko wrote: »

Where are you based OP? If in Galway city I can show you.

Offer still stands. If you're in another town maybe someone local can help out.

John T Carroll

Most rear pad renewal require a brake caliper piston re wind tool?.

DarraghR

biko wrote: »

Offer still stands. If you're in another town maybe someone local can help out.

I live in Dublin South unfortunately but thanks for the offer buddy
2 days off now so will give it a look. I was advised to get a block of wood and place it behind and in between the wheel and rim. Then go at it with a hammer and see if it loosens it

CJhaughey

Drive to a car park or similar open space.
Loosen all wheel nuts by 1.5 -2 turns.
Drive the car and corner left and right, this will loosen the wheel with a clunk,
retighten wheel nuts and drive home.

DarraghR

Got the wheel off. Dont ask how but just hope I didnt cause any further damage. Lots of rust by the looks in the center of the wheel was possibly holding it on. A hammer to the center might have freed it up but sure its off now...

Should I treat the area with WD40 or anything else. Maybe clean it with a metal brush?

The break pad looks worn down all the way. Disc is smooth. Heres what it looks like

biko

Yeah use a wirebrush or a file to get as much rust off as you can.
It's pretty important to get any surfaces that are touching to be clean, as otherwise they may cause imbalance = vibrations.

And give the calipers a good brushing too, the state of them

In my opinion you can keep using that disc.
It's going to be another effort to get that off anyway. Maybe harder than the wheel.

Oh and as said above, rear piston needs to be wound back into place.
The font pistons are just pressed, but rears needs to be wound.
You can use plaiers and effort and sweat and cursing, but it's faster and easier with a tool from Halfords/factors.
http://www.npoc.co.uk/forum/nissan-primera-p12-brake-caliper-windback-tool_topic27228.html

cletus

Its hart to tell if there is much of a lip on the rotor. Have you any way to measure the thickness?

Re the rust on the hub, I'd knock off any loose rust and debris, and put a smear of copper grease on the face of the hub. DO NOT GET IT ON THE ROTORS OR PADS

biko

Rotor = American English for disc

dodzy

Those pics of the rear disc indicate a smooth enough surface with little wear on the front face and therefor unlikely to be the source of the problem. If you definitely heard grinding, it may be on the inner surface. You'll know as generally the grinding noise is metal on metal and will score a disc in no time, so it will be as rough as a bear's ar5e.

DarraghR

biko wrote: »

Yeah use a wirebrush or a file to get as much rust off as you can.
It's pretty important to get any surfaces that are touching to be clean, as otherwise they may cause imbalance = vibrations.

And give the calipers a good brushing too, the state of them

In my opinion you can keep using that disc.
It's going to be another effort to get that off anyway. Maybe harder than the wheel.

Oh and as said above, rear piston needs to be wound back into place.
The font pistons are just pressed, but rears needs to be wound.
You can use plaiers and effort and sweat and cursing, but it's faster and easier with a tool from Halfords/factors.
http://www.npoc.co.uk/forum/nissan-primera-p12-brake-caliper-windback-tool_topic27228.html

Ok so I need a good wire brush to remove heavy rust and dirt.

I hope winding the rear piston isnt complicated

dodzy wrote: »

Those pics of the rear disc indicate a smooth enough surface with little wear on the front face and therefor unlikely to be the source of the problem. If you definitely heard grinding, it may be on the inner surface. You'll know as generally the grinding noise is metal on metal and will score a disc in no time, so it will be as rough as a bear's ar5e.

I can get my small finger just in behind the guard to feel the other side of the plate. Seems smooth enough.

With the wheel off when I rotate the disc it does rub off the break pad causing a noise. Do the break pads release then the ignition is turned on?

DarraghR

Im going to pop to the motor factors for a metal brush. Should I buy ANYTHING ELSE for this job? Is copper grease necessary for just changing the pads??

Alanstrainor

Get copper grease. Do you have DIY guide for this car that you are following? If you haven't I suggest you get one.

Hal1

Get a wire wheel it will make the rust cleaning easy peezy.

Interslice

Hal1 wrote: »

Get a wire wheel it will make the rust cleaning easy peezy.

+1 Try and get in at the carrier where the wings of the brake pads slide in and out. A flat blade screw driver is usefull here too. The pads should fit into place nice and easy but just put a small bit of copper grease on the wings of the pads anyway. Probably the most important area to clean up well.

The bit where there is no paint

biko

A wire wheel brush is good if OP has a drill or dremel.
I use a brush myself, or more often a file. A file works faster imo.

DarraghR

Yeah unfortunately I do not own a drill so the wire brush and some brute force will have to do. Going at the breaks today so wish me luck



Will be using this video tutorial https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GyP9SgGMRr0

DarraghR

There is a black rubber cover surrounding the fitting. Am I supposed to tear this off!? Also it looks like the caliber bolts have a smooth outer part but I have no wrench fitting by the looks

Hal1

Leave that there, the dust cap fits over it to protect the slider bolts from rusting. The sliders look to have an allen key head on them.

Nekarsulm

Don't tear it off, it's a cover to keep the crud off.
You need to get an allen key, or better again an allen key socket to use with your ratchet for those caliper bolts.

DarraghR

Hal1 wrote: »

Leave that there, the dust cap fits over it to protect the slider bolts from rusting.

Theres none in this video but it is a different model. What wrench fitting do i need to remove it

Nekarsulm

http://m.ebay.co.uk/itm/9pc-1-2-inch-Drive-Hex-Allen-Key-Bit-Socket-Set-4-5-6-7-8-10-12-14-17mm-/400889354867?nav=SEARCH

Hal1

Well you need a set of allen keys...halfords sell them.

Nekarsulm

Just make sure that whichever you buy, has a big enough size for the job in hand. Before you leave the shop carpark get down and check, you can reach in from behind. Handy things to have anyway, cause some sump plugs use them also.

biko

DarraghR wrote: »

There is a black rubber cover surrounding the fitting. Am I supposed to tear this off!? Also it looks like the caliber bolts have a smooth outer part but I have no wrench fitting by the looks

Ah crap

That's an Allen (sometimes called Hex) fastener
It is more than likely 7mm and can be got in Halfords for 7euro (yeah pricey, I know...)

As others said, that rubber surround is to protect the fastener, don't rip it off.

DarraghR

biko wrote: »

Ah crap

That's an Allen (sometimes called Hex) fastener
It is more than likely 7mm and can be got in Halfords for 7euro (yeah pricey, I know...)

As others said, that rubber surround is to protect the fastener, don't rip it off.

So will a set of Allen Keys do the job or do i need this Hex?

biko

Allen and Hex is the same thing.

Do you have a set already? If so check if you have 7mm. If not try with the closest sizes you have. Worst case, go to Halfords and buy it.

cletus

For some reason 7mm Allen keys don't seem to be part of standard sets. Ifvyour anywhere near Naas tomorrow you can have mine, got it in halfords for a fiesta I used to have

DarraghR

Got a 7mm in Halfords and tested it outside the shop just in case. On off rain at the moment so waiting for it to clear up a bit. Someone told me I might need a 22mm wrench head? What part would that be for

Interslice

DarraghR wrote: »

Got a 7mm in Halfords and tested it outside the shop just in case. On off rain at the moment so waiting for it to clear up a bit. Someone told me I might need a 22mm wrench head? What part would that be for

Guessing the size of the carrier bolts on the back of the hub most likely. You won't need that off unless your changing the disk.

DarraghR

So I got the two long bolts out from the top and bottom



What now :P

Hal1

Remove the caliper and support it with a bungy cord or whatever you have.