Ipads for school.

dashcamdanny

I went to a school meeting for new parents and student's in Naas . For the new community collage. It seemed more like a sales event for Apple and Wriggle i.e.
Alarm bells were ringing in my head straight away when the sales man said it would be best to buy ipads of the company. Yet failed to provide an answer why.
I see that all the things they need are all on the play store, so why are the school's pushing for the high end of the market ? I did also see a few parents get very worried when the prices came out. Rip off Ireland in full swing with Fallon software on the price list.
What the hell is going on?
So I really have to find 700 Euro for this? Before I buy uniforms and bus fares.

2011

The same happened in my daughters school. All I can say is that it is for the best. This works out far cheaper than buying the books every year. Plus the iPads are sold by Wriggle at a special discounted rate.

All students are expected to partake in the class when sick on line via the iPad. No excuses for not emailing In homework either. Videos, PowerPoint presentations and photos are a regular feature of homework too.

Students need to be computer literate to a certain extent when entering secondary school. This builds on that essential knowledge.

Also school bags become considerably lighter.

I think that you should embrace it.

I could go on, but it is hrs on an iPhone

beauf

How much are the electronic books every years, vs recycling books? Most schools seem to do this.
If you are sick, why would you be expected to do classwork, homework. Unless you aren't actually sick?
There are studies to suggest too much exposure is worse, and that an iPad might not be the best tool

http://www.wsj.com/articles/technology-in-classrooms-doesnt-always-boost-education-results-oecd-says-1442343420
http://www.theatlantic.com/education/archive/2014/08/whats-the-best-device-for-interactive-learning/375567/

I would that's its early days yet. It might be a bit early to too critical of it.

The lighter bags would be great. No argument about that.

Most primary school kids would be highly computer literate in my experience. They seem to be able to bypass all forms of security, down to rooting devices, and even social engineering their way around restrictions.

2011

beauf wrote: »

How much are the electronic books every years, vs recycling books? Most schools seem to do this.

Yes, most secondary schools use books, but this is changing.

If you are sick, why would you be expected to do classwork, homework.

A student can be too sick to go to school, but not too sick to do homework.

Unless you aren't actually sick?

It happens.

There are studies to suggest too much exposure is worse, and that an iPad might not be the best tool

.........and these links suggest otherwise:

31 reasons you should be using iPads in the classroom

they’re more active in their learning, rather than sitting there passively, and the technology standardises a level of organisation across the classroom.

Parents should give their children iPads almost as soon as they are born, according to scientists.



I see how iPads make learning and school more interesting and fun for students first hand evry week.
They get "into" their homework so much more than kids in my day did.
I know that this is down to a number of factors such as improved teaching methods, but I firmly believe that iPads are part of this.

dashcamdanny

The real problem with these ipads will be gaming . My son who is 12 is obsessed with games. Given the chance he would wake early in the morn, game all day, not eat and fall asleep with the thing in his hands at night.

Will I as a parent be able to digitally stop him from downloading games?

I know a friend who can get me a new ipad air for just under 290. Im sure I dont have to buy of wriggle. Is that the case?

2011

dashcamdanny wrote: »

The real problem with these ipads will be gaming . My son who is 12 is obsessed with games. Given the chance he would wake early in the morn, game all day, not eat and fall asleep with the thing in his hands at night.

I understand your concern.

My daughter is not into gaming, so I have not had to deal with this issue.
As far as I know the iPads are somehow "locked down" for school use only.

Will I as a parent be able to digitally stop him from downloading games?

My understanding is that this is possible.

I know a friend who can get me a new ipad air for just under 290. Im sure I dont have to buy of wriggle. Is that the case?

My experience is limited to my daughter's school.
Parents are permitted to supply an iPad from any source.
However they made it clear that this device must be dedicated for school use.

spurious

As a former teacher, I share your concerns about iPads. From my experience, they tended to exacerbate the short attention span some children had and the effect on handwriting was disastrous.

Given that the exams are still taken in a non-electronic format, (and speaking as an examiner) please make sure your child develops acceptable, legible handwriting. It does not have to be copperplate as in ye olden days, but identifiable letters would be good.

If the school is not covering it, buy a headline copy yourself and get your child to spend five minutes twice a day practising good handwriting.

beauf

2011 wrote: »

Yes, most secondary schools use books, but this is changing.



A student can be too sick to go to school, but not too sick to do homework.



It happens.




.........and these links suggest otherwise:

31 reasons you should be using iPads in the classroom

they’re more active in their learning, rather than sitting there passively, and the technology standardises a level of organisation across the classroom.

Parents should give their children iPads almost as soon as they are born, according to scientists.



I see how iPads make learning and school more interesting and fun for students first hand evry week.
They get "into" their homework so much more than kids in my day did.
I know that this is down to a number of factors such as improved teaching methods, but I firmly believe that iPads are part of this.

As far as I an see none of those links is based on an independent study in schools or outcomes. They are anecdotal stories by the stakeholders. Other than the baby one.

The point is not that school's use books??? But that recycling books is cheaper.

beauf

dashcamdanny wrote: »

The real problem with these ipads will be gaming . My son who is 12 is obsessed with games. Given the chance he would wake early in the morn, game all day, not eat and fall asleep with the thing in his hands at night.

Will I as a parent be able to digitally stop him from downloading games?

I know a friend who can get me a new ipad air for just under 290. Im sure I dont have to buy of wriggle. Is that the case?

Have the same problem with one of mine. Hard to manage.

I know one local school had problems they managed to get around the restrictions, with kids accessing social media, and some form of electronic bullying.

Millem

OP my school doesn't use iPads (yet) am dreading it if they do to be honest. I have no doubts it will be coming in for us as wriggle seem to always be in our school.
Teachers need to be computer literate!!! There will be great fun and games in our school when they bring in iPads
Totally agree with other poster in relation to handwriting.


A new school near enough us opened and only uses iPads. The local credit union did some interest free loan deal on them. The books are a rip off and expire after 3 years.

mass_debater

Why iPad, why not a cheaper Android tablet?

Millem

mass_debater wrote: »

Why iPad, why not a cheaper Android tablet?

I think iPads are meant to be the best for education. I have a surface pro for work which apparently doesn't have the same amount of apps.

beauf

You can't compare a surface to Android or Apple.

mass_debater

Millem wrote: »

I think iPads are meant to be the best for education. I have a surface pro for work which apparently doesn't have the same amount of apps.

I have an iPad for work and an Android tablet for personal use that cost half the price. Mostly the same apps are available for both, the iPad is clunky, doesn't multi task and plays very few formats, the Android tab wins hands down for useability.

beauf

What do they do for students who can't afford an iPad?

sadie06

I was at the same meeting. The wriggle guy said from the outset that you can use your own device, but the downside would be that they don't have the same control over it in terms of age restrictions etc. They were there for a sales pitch alright, but it's up to you what you do. Don't forget there will be a credit-union option to spread the cost.

The principal also rubbished the wriggle rep's claim that you should go for the 32gb option, saying it was not needed as each child has a TB of space with their 365 account, and that the school do spot-checks to ensure enough space is kept free on the i-Pad for educational needs.

In terms of gaming etc, as most of our children already have devices to hand, we will be fighting the same battle as always to get them to balance work and play. Your child will be able to download anything they want within the age restriction imposed by device management. It's up to us to control usage as much as possible. I was heartened to hear that i-pads have to be in lockers during all breaks so that the kids actually socialise.

Wottle

Haven't the Brits trialed this over a few years and reported back that schools who used IPads only, showed no noticeable improvements in results.
I remember catching a report on BBC news.

sadie06

Wottle wrote: »

Haven't the Brits trialed this over a few years and reported back that schools who used IPads only, showed no noticeable improvements in results.
I remember catching a report on BBC news.

I wouldn't really be expecting an improvement in results. Not having to drag around a stupidly heavy bag should result in improvements in posture though!:)

In all seriousness, the successful utilisation of devices varies from school to school. As Naas CC is a brand new school, all teachers were hired on the basis that the chosen medium for education was e-Books and information technology.

The medium is harder to implement with an established school when you have a mixed age group on the staff, some with very little experience with technology beyond email and social media.

I am not fully sold on the idea either, and do feel like my child is a guinea pig of sorts, but this school was still very much the best school for us as a family in our area (amongst a choice of some other great schools) and so we intend to fully embrace the chosen medium.

Millem

sadie06 wrote: »

In all seriousness, the successful utilisation of devices varies from school to school. As Naas CC is a brand new school, all teachers were hired on the basis that the chosen medium for education was e-Books and information technology.

The medium is harder to implement with an established school when you have a mixed age group on the staff, some with very little experience with technology beyond email and social media.

Sadie I don't know anything about the school but I would assume some of the staff have been redployed from other schools? So may not be great on the iPads themselves.

Stheno

mass_debater wrote: »

Why iPad, why not a cheaper Android tablet?

The books and any learning materials may only have been developed for ipads.
I worked with an organisation who developed this sort of stuff and they had to develop different versions for ipads and androids due to technical differences.

The_Valeyard

Some Schools are backing away from iPad or electronic devices. Results have been very mixed so far. Jury is out.

gctest50

The_Valeyard wrote: »

Some Schools are backing away from iPad or electronic devices. Results have been very mixed so far. Jury is out.

Anyone feel like weighing a few schoolbags on an "average day" ?

Shouldn't be carrying more than ~ 10 % - 20 % of their bodyweight

enzo roco

mass_debater wrote: »

Why iPad, why not a cheaper Android tablet?

I thought the same, Itunes is so messy.

mass_debater

Stheno wrote: »

The books and any learning materials may only have been developed for ipads.

That was fine 3 years ago but iOS on the iPad has stagnated and now Android is the better more popular platform, no excuse for not developing for Android now.

gctest50

mass_debater wrote: »

That was fine 3 years ago but iOS on the iPad has stagnated and now Android is the better more popular platform, no excuse for not developing for Android now.

Some people have a knack of finding the most wonky electronic devices.
Would probably be the same price as an iPad, but wouldn't work on every fifth Friday sort of thing.

If the school released a list of 50 android devices they had tested 100% compatible, someone would find #51. Wouldn't be any cheaper or anything, just wonky.

beauf

Android also has a massive fragmentation issues where the vast majority of Android devices are on old versions and probably will never get security updates. Perhaps that's an issue for Schools and kids bypassing security settings.

mass_debater

gctest50 wrote: »

Some people have a knack of finding the most wonky electronic devices.
Would probably be the same price as an iPad, but wouldn't work on every fifth Friday sort of thing.

If the school released a list of 50 android devices they had tested 100% compatible, someone would find #51. Wouldn't be any cheaper or anything, just wonky.

I'd expect the school to test with an affordable device and go with that and supply a customised device without Google integration.

gctest50

mass_debater wrote: »

I'd expect the school to test with an affordable device and go with that and supply a customised device without Google integration.

and then you end up back here again :

mass_debater wrote: »

That was fine 3 years ago but iOS on the iPad has stagnated and now Android is the better more popular platform, no excuse for not developing for Android now.

unless the school are going into hardware development

dashcamdanny

I truly think that there is no need to be going for the high end market on this. Which Apple is.

No consideration for parents . Just make them buy it. Same every year .. As long as Fallon are making millions

I wonder if the children in the UK even had to buy their Ipads for schools. Or the software. I doubt it.

beauf

I would share your cynicism.

Millem

As a matter of interest how much are one of these iPads with all the ebooks on it? Do students need to buy any actual books?

beauf

I don't know exactly but something around 700 was mentioned to me, perhaps that's incorrect. I'm struggling to find details online.

Paying it off via Credit Union actually makes it more expensive (interest I assume).,

BailMeOut

I'd be furious if my kids school insisted on Apple devices. It should not matter if you want to buy Andoid or Apple and the school's choice on apps should require that the app is available on both platforms.

gctest50

dashcamdanny wrote: »

I truly think that there is no need to be going for the high end market on this. Which Apple is.

No consideration for parents . Just make them buy it. Same every year .. As long as Fallon are making millions

I wonder if the children in the UK even had to buy their Ipads for schools. Or the software. I doubt it.

Comes out of the council tax in the UK maybe ?

about 1500 euro a year kind of thing

a council could do a lot with 28 euro per house a week

Blaenau Gwent is the most expensive area where the annual fee stands at £1,695

Pembrokeshire has the lowest rates at £1,071


http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-wales-35911630





Council Tax is a tax on domestic property collected by your local council. The council use it to pay for local services such as schools, rubbish collection, roads and street lighting.

sadie06

BailMeOut wrote: »

I'd be furious if my kids school insisted on Apple devices. It should not matter if you want to buy Andoid or Apple and the school's choice on apps should require that the app is available on both platforms.

Yes but the parents of children attending this school knew this before applying for the a place in the school. It is a new school.

The cost is roughly €700, which gets you the device, the books, the set-up, a one off workshop for kids and a separate one for parents, 3 years insurance and 3 years of tech support (reportedly very rapid and responsive) and a bulletproof case that they claim has eliminated breakages.

After the Junior Cert, you pay for a new batch of e-books, insurance and tech support to get you through to LC.

It's an awful lot of money, no doubt!

beauf

With the catchment policies parent often have no choice of what school a child is going to.

gctest50

sadie06 wrote: »

Yes but the parents of children attending this school knew this before applying for the a place in the school. It is a new school.

The cost is roughly €700, which gets you the device, the books, the set-up, a one off workshop for kids and a separate one for parents, 3 years insurance and 3 years of tech support (reportedly very rapid and responsive) and a bulletproof case that they claim has eliminated breakages.

After the Junior Cert, you pay for a new batch of e-books, insurance and tech support to get you through to LC.

It's an awful lot of money, no doubt!

What would the cost of books be ? about €30 ---> €40 each ?

sadie06

beauf wrote: »

With the catchment policies parent often have no choice of what school a child is going to.

Thankfully in the Naas area there is choice and flexibility at the moment, although schools are expected to come under a lot of pressure in the coming years.

That being said, out of the three mixed schools two now use iPads and the other one is a Gaelcholáiste, so unless your child went to a Gael Scoil you are looking at a single sex school for traditional learning methods.

gctest50

and you don't end up with this :





that just can't be good

beauf

I never understood why they make kids carry a tone of books to use maybe 20 pages during the school day.

jimmycrackcorm

BailMeOut wrote:

I'd be furious if my kids school insisted on Apple devices. It should not matter if you want to buy Andoid or Apple and the school's choice on apps should require that the app is available on both platforms.

Really it comes down to the availability of the apps for educational use and I suspect that Apple has a better choice.

I do also think that schools should allow readers like Kindles as replacements for books. I think of that every morning when in lift my kids bag to put his lunch in.

gctest50

beauf wrote: »

I never understood why they make kids carry a tone of books to use maybe 20 pages during the school day.

http://booksplits.ie/

beauf

jimmycrackcorm wrote: »

Really it comes down to the availability of the apps for educational use and I suspect that Apple has a better choice.

I do also think that schools should allow readers like Kindles as replacements for books. I think of that every morning when in lift my kids bag to put his lunch in.

Perhaps I'm wrong. Seems to me they aren't picking an off the shelf application but more of a all in one bundle.

0ph0rce0

My daughters school started using ipads 2 years ago.

Was 500 for the ipad, All the software and apps, books etc are loaded on by the school, They supply all the material, No extra cost.

They also have them restricted so they can't download games etc...

Millem

0ph0rce0 wrote: »

My daughters school started using ipads 2 years ago.

Was 500 for the ipad, All the software and apps, books etc are loaded on by the school, They supply all the material, No extra cost.

They also have them restricted so they can't download games etc...

€500 is good value. In my own subject we have 2 books + a workbook which would cost €50-€60 brand new. If a student takes 10 subjects their books could cost €500.
Do you need to pay more in 2nd year etc as students use a different maths/irish/language book?

blondchick

My daughters school brought in ipads when she was going into first year, she is in Junior Cert now. The initial cost of the ipad was €450 and then there was an additional cost of around €150/160 to download the books. In second year we needed to pay around €100 to download additional books. For her it has worked out well and she is keen to keep using it to leaving cert. I havent had any problems and she is doing well with her school work. However, I have several friends who have had to buy the books for their children as they just couldnt concentrate using the ipad to study. I also know of at least ten others who have said that they will be buying the books for leaving cert. My concern is that electronic devices do not last forever and as they are used 7 days a week, an average of 8 hours per day I would imagine we will have to replace them prior to completion of the leaving cert. The big plus is the children are not carrying around big bags of books but from a study point of view the ipad is not for everyone. Personally I couldnt see why a cheaper device or even an ereader/kindle could not be used.

beauf

eReaders generally don't do diagrams, or colour, photos etc very well. Or complex formatting. They can't handle a lot of web applications and things like that.

Thanks for the feedback of peoples experiences its all very informative. Especially how it suits different people differently.

sadie06

This gives you an idea of what en e-Book package is.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qd9aenP1PAQ

The_Valeyard

0ph0rce0 wrote: »

They also have them restricted so they can't download games etc...

Give it a couple months and they will all be rooted/jailbroken, very easy to do even on restricted tablets. Not to mention there are apps to give 'false' appearance and hide your real apps

Exiled1

As a former secondary school principal (who is highly IT literate etc), I deplore the race to be seen to be a thoroughly 'modern' school by making students use iPads etc.
Despite the vast amount of bilge, especially from Microsoft, there is very little evidence of their educational value. These tablets tend to be educational resources rather than learning tools.
Books are indispensable and anybody thinks this is other than a middle class wheeze to a great extent has very limited educational vision.
Given the obvious lack of basic numeracy and literacy skills, it is ironic we seem to be heading in this direction.

gctest50

A Chromebook or similar might be a better bet - they'd be seen as more "work" than "play"

http://www.theatlantic.com/education/archive/2014/08/whats-the-best-device-for-interactive-learning/375567/

Other iPad pilot teachers came to see the benefits of laptop capabilities, too.

“At the end of the year, I was upset that we didn’t get the iPads,” said seventh-grade science teacher Larissa McCann. “But as soon as I got the Chromebook and the kids started using it, I saw, ‘Okay, this is definitely much more useful.’ ”