Indiana Jones and the Dial of Destiny

Spon Farmer

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120815328#Comment_120815328

I saw it with my nephew and he loved it too.

And he doesn’t see any reason why Ford can’t make more of them :)

pixelburp

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120819710#Comment_120819710

Addressed it in a post from today; but I think it comes down to my theory that Indiana Jones - and specifically that genre of globe trotting, puzzle adventures - don't make the kind of serious money that can justify Dial of Destiny's budget. Not just this but other recent movies of this type have struggled (though must check Uncharted's budget Vs the 400 million box office). Genres come and go, and Jones was always a bit of a throwback in the first place.

It's a very old fashioned format and genre and am not sure "Indiana Jones" is the kind of draw it used to be. Certainly not to the extent it could justify the supposed budget of 250 million; and once the word of mouth of general shoulder shrugs, that probably didn't help either.

Obviously all a theory.

Silentcorner

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120819682#Comment_120819682

The movie probably needs to make over €900 million to break even given it's budget (over €300 plus €100-150 marketing), the cinemas take approx 50% of the box office.

This is not going to get anywhere near that, this is a complete and utter flop. Remember, Disney's revenue model would normally also include a lot of downstream revenue, merchandise, amusement park rides, hotel stays etc....and their movies are flopping all over the place!!

I think the nub of the issue is that creativity and massive global corporations don't mix, the corporate culture is too strong, throw in modern day's corporate religion and you end up with a declining empire, I can see sell off's coming, Disney has become a sh#tshow and the people in charge are to blame, not a bunch of online movie critics!

Spon Farmer

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120819853#Comment_120819853

I actually saw that earlier post after I asked you the question.

The old fashioned format and genre you mention are what I was trying to say to you in my post as being the reason why I didn’t expect it to hit the billion mark but I did think that it would earn back its money and a lot more.

I wonder if Disney+ is the reason for the poor box office - it will be there eventually and people seem to prefer watching at home.

I don’t actually know anyone who goes to the cinema - people react like it is some alien notion. Where I work is all Netflix, piracy and something called dodgy box. Very few have Disney+ and most people have not heard of Prime Video.

Spon Farmer

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120820178#Comment_120820178

It is a massive budget alright and I’ve been told before that marketing costs are as high as that.

And I can’t see where that marketing money is being spent. My nephew and his father are the only people I know who knew this movie was coming out. I haven’t seen a poster or anything promoting the film. I’m not saying that Galway/Mayo should have images on every bus but that kind of money should mean the marketing is everywhere.

As to the creativity, the movie was, you may not think but regardless I don’t think that is why movies are not being successful .

The crap some people watch like that reality stuff shows that people are not looking for creative movies and TV.

Silentcorner

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120820308#Comment_120820308

It's a lot of money but it is spread over a massive area so that is also half the problem, the maths don't really add up, you really need good word of mouth and repeat viewers, Joker and Maverick were the last two movies I bothered going to see and in both cases the theatres were packed, one before covid one after and I gotta say, if the movie is good enough people will go in massive numbers, I can see Cruises next movie doing beyond Maverick, Disney had a winning formula but they decided to ignore what the market was telling them.

Agent Coulson

Got a couple of emails today from cinemas I have used when in the States on both coasts saying this is the final weekend for the movie.

Not a good sign if it’s being dropped that quick.

Spon Farmer

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120820559#Comment_120820559

That can’t be right.

is it even out three weeks?

Spon Farmer

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120820342#Comment_120820342

People don’t know a film is good until they see it so whether it is good or bad is not what is affecting bums on sets.

And how people actually pay any attention to critics? Or even listen to or read reviews?

How many people follow those YouTubers or others who just love to rant every film is crap? Their followers are a small group by comparison to movie going audience.

Marvel, Pixar, etc. - cinemas were always packed before the lockdown.

Box office takings are down in general aren’t they? Isn’t that a result of the lockdown?

People have just lost interest in going to the cinema because everything can be streamed eventually.

600 people where I work and I would confidently wager a very hefty sum that that only two people went to see Maverick at the cinema - and one of the 2 is me.

Shelga

I saw this yesterday- I quite enjoyed it! Definitely better than KOTCS, and I found myself just going with the mad ending more easily than I did with its predecessor.

I thought the de-ageing worked pretty well, at times it looked a bit Polar Express, but that was me watching it like a hawk in a way I wouldn’t if I didn’t know an actor is being de-aged. It’s amazing what they can do these days.

Liked PWB waaaay more than Shia LaBoeuf, not that that’s hard. Harrison Ford gave it his all as usual. I didn’t see the point of the new Short Round esque sidekick, and thought he was one of several elements that could have been cut.

Like most nostalgia sequels, I don’t think that this could ever compete with the original 3, but I do think it was worth going to the cinema for. I miss the cinema! My screening was pretty much empty, although that might have been the time of day it was too.

So yeah, I enjoyed it well enough, however the wider context of movies like this highlighting the decline of cinema is depressing.

Mrs Shuttleworth

Love or hate Last Crusade, it's a million miles better than most movies being made now. Or maybe that's just me as I really dislike the appearance of digital cinematography.

Arthur Pants

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120821113#Comment_120821113

https://variety.com/2023/artisans/news/indiana-jones-5-deaging-harrison-ford-1235663264/

Easy to see where near USD 300 million budget went when you see this - 100 people for 3 years for the de-aging alone.

silverharp

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120819636#Comment_120819636

they are 2 different things, not making the right movies and the movies they do make not giving themselves the best chance.

Someone made a nice contrast between this film and Daniel Greg's Bond and Q , they end up helping each other out because Bond isnt the tech expert. In this film the character that is the archaeological legend and teaches it in a university, finder of the Ark of the Covenant and the Holy Grail gets no respect from someone with none of the experience he has. Forget the dodgy de-aging, the real uncanny valley is the bad writing that makes human characters in movies act in not quite human ways.

Tony EH

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120820559#Comment_120820559

What? It's only been out a week.

Silentcorner

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120820807#Comment_120820807

I don't know why you are fighting this...the quality of movies have deteriorated noticably over the last ten years, and an idiot can see why.

The movies people will see in massive numbers are different from those that are flopping....Hollywood can't even do romcoms anymore let alone proper comedies. Movies were always available at home long before the streaming services, so that isn't impacting the movie going public, you don't need youtubers to tell you what is good and what is not, the trailers are enough.

Hollywood is in a fairly noticeable decline, it doesn't take a genius to guess what has happened.

pixelburp

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120820559#Comment_120820559

If true then we may await the inevitable announcement about the Disney+ release soon.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120820274#Comment_120820274

If this cost 50 million ala the Jumanji remake, then it could have easily done ok, there's probably enough interest around to make a solid showing as you suggest; though 165 million so far so not exactly kicking the door down either - I guess we'll see. Though if this is leaving cinemas soon then it's a guaranteed flop. But a rumoured 300 million budget was certainly always a terrible start - I don't think even Avatar 2 cost that much? Could be way wrong though, without checking.

BruteStock

Box office takings are not down because of lockdowns , they are down because of films people don't want to watch. Flops are hardly a new concept. Prior to the pandemic Hollywood was producing massive box office failures every year.

Just a few films from 2015- 2019 that lost huge sums of cash - Mortal Engines, Solo, Terminator Dark Fate , X-men Dark Phoenix , Guy Ritchie's King Arthur , Gods Of Egypt , Ghostbusters 16 , Gemini Man , Charlie's Angles , Cats , Wrinkle In Time , First Man , Robin Hood , Fantastic 4 , Jupiter Ascending Blade Runner 2 (unfortunately).

During/Past pandemic No Way Home and Topgun have broken box office records and Way Of Water is the 3rd highest grossing film ever made.

Jurassic Park Dominion and Mario cleared a Billion. Minions and Doc Strange 2 almost crossed a Billion. The cinema's aren't the problems , its the films.

The new Indy film if done right could have appealed to old and young audiences like TopGun did. Instead the recurring theme in Disney movies could be seen a mile away so it alienated both. This film was never going to tap into the nostalgia factor people love and give Indy an heroic tribute. Once the trailer showed him slouched alone in his recliner , that was that. Game over.

There is only one person audiences want to see in an Indy movie and that's Indy. Nobody cares about new characters. Lucas Film should have learned their lesson from Mutt. For some reason they chose to feature a character worse than Mutt who dominates the film. Played by Fleabag who is an acquired taste and whose vainglorious stonk is a taste the masses evidently wanted no part of.

There's a scene in Doom where Indy reaches out his to save a bad bad guy who was trying to kill him with rocks. In Destiny, Shaw locks Indy in a room with Nazi's and runs away. That's what you're dealing with. No wonder Spielberg walked away.

Spon Farmer

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120821498#Comment_120821498

You seem to have missed the point of my post.

Your “story idea” is both terrible and unoriginal - yet you call the makers of the film “creatively bankrupt”.

The de-aging is the best of the technology has ever been. Might not be perfect but it is “video game” stuff like some say it is. And I would rather it be not perfect than a different performer or the story not be part of the film.

ltd440

I really enjoyed the movie,a lot of over the top chase scenes,nazis and miraculous artifacts.

The running time is probably too long, but I think that about most movies nowadays.

Harrison Ford is still a great actor

Spon Farmer

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120821673#Comment_120821673

I’m not fighting with anyone and have no idea why you are so upset that you are calling me an idiot.

That is as far as I read because you are clearly not worth the time.

Imagine that I have blown a raspberry at you.

Or don’t.

Same result.

Silentcorner

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120821820#Comment_120821820

Maybe my choice of language was incorrect, I didn't mean to call anyone an idiot let alone you, it is just obvious to many why Hollywood is struggling. It seems some still can't see it!

Spon Farmer

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120821701#Comment_120821701

There clearly isn’t the interest in the franchise that film was ever going to be profitable regardless of the cost. I’m not the best with regards money and costs but Crystal Skull was €150/175 so I’m guess you can’t make an Indiana Jones for less than that.

I assume the de-aging was a big part of the budget.

Avatar 2 was €250 and Avengers Endgame €350.

Avatar is ALL VFX and I assume the majority of Endgame’s budget was special effects. Dial of Destiny was more practical VFX, stunts, locations, etc.

So the de-aging aside I don’t understand the cost.

I haven’t seen any Jumaji film yet but I know the first Rock one was a success and is well liked so clearly it isn’t shabby looking in the VFX and action so €50 million seems to me to be the standard limit that any movie of that kind should cost. Indy 5 had more locations so it is reasonable that it would cost more but not exceed €100.

pixelburp

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120821842#Comment_120821842

You keep saying it's obvious? What is it then?

Spon Farmer

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120821751#Comment_120821751

People haven’t been going to see the movie so they don’t know if it is good or bad.

People had no idea if Top Gun 2, Spiderman 3 and Avatar 2 were any good but they clearly held interest for people. How many people enjoyed them or thought they are good movies can’t be known - the only other person I know who went to see Top Gun loved original but was bored by the new one and fell asleep.

I can guarantee that if a survey was done where I work, people just are not going to the cinema and don’t follow what is coming out.

And with some of the things that people are watching these days it isn’t quality of movies that is keeping them away.

Again they don’t what is good or bad until they see it.

All the movies you mentioned are part of recent series and have big followers of all ages. So interest is high.

Clearly Indy doesn’t have that or else people are simply waiting to see it at home. If they even know it exists.

How many movies that you consider to be original, creative or just a bloody well made well acted story that not part of a franchise are actually getting people into cinemas?

Silentcorner

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120821933#Comment_120821933

The inability to write decent characters that people can relate to...there hasn't been a male or female character created that has had a meaningful cultural impact in a decade (comic book heroes, if that is your thing have been around for a long time)...nothing that is being created today (or in recent years) will be watched in the future...even Avatar, by any measure a blockbuster is also strangely devoid of relatable characters, the appalling gender-swapping genre has also been an unmerciful flop for the industry, even female actors are speaking out about it.

Jeff Lebowski was just one character that had a cultural impact from the 90s that most people are aware of and that movie wasn't even a hit!!

The new diversity laws the Oscars are imposing are just going to speed up the collapse of the industry, it's sad really. Todd philips was right, woke idiots have ruined the industry.

pixelburp

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120822198#Comment_120822198

Cool, that's what I thought this was about.

We shall part ways so.

MEGA BRO WOLF 5000

I don't have much time so I'll be quick. I ignored all the media and reviews on this as I normally do with blockbusters. It reminded me of that middle Star Wars movie in the new trilogy, not in a good way. Awful turgid stuff with a forced character we're supposed to root for in the woman that accompanies Indie throughout the movie, she reminded me so much of purple haired lady in that middle Star Wars movie, awful. What an awful sendoff for such a great character in Indiana Jones. Not to mention they now have Indie as a run down shell of a man, ah of course, where have I seen this before...yep - Mark Hamill in THAT middle Star Wars movie.

Silentcorner

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120822241#Comment_120822241

It's an industry, that is all it is, don't invest too much emotional energy, or better still, stay away from places where you hear alternate opinions, it's too much for you clearly!

pixelburp

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120822364#Comment_120822364

No need to be a díck. I don't think Woke is destroying Hollywood, I already made the point, which you rejected already, so we'll just go around in circles again. Hence the polite hat tip - so again, no need to be an àss.

Silentcorner

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120822374#Comment_120822374

Wow, you really don't like people who are critical of woke. I didn't cop that from you sorry.