Why is car insurance so expensive in Ireland? My first car insurance.

boy2litle

Hello,

I want to buy my first car and it will be an used one for sure, one around 1000-1500 euros.

The problem is I have a diver licence since 2007 obtained in an Romania and I did not had troubles in traffic or any other problems in those years. Even I drived different types of cars those years I never had an insurance in my name. In Romania you have to insure the car not you as I driver and because of this that car can be used by how many drivers you want with no other extra charges. Also the Insurance can be around 150-300 euros/year, based on age and the experience of the driver that own the car.

I see that here in Ireland the insurance is pretty expensive for a newcomer that had no previous car insurance in this country or a full Irish driving licence.

You can pay from what I heard even 2000 or 3000 euros per year. I tried different online quotes but I get no answer in the end ("Sorry but we are now able to provide you any quote at this moment.") . When I call it seems that they are not so willing to insure you if you didn't had any car insurance before or you do not have an full Irish driving licence. How is that possible?

For a car that it's value is 1000 euros, that can have between 12 or 16 years old is NOT OK to pay 2000 or 3000 euros per year.

It's like I will have to offer as a gift to my insurance company two or three similar cars as mine. In other Europeans countries the car insurance are between 500 or 1000 euros per year. I understand that in Northern Ireland you have to pay a car insurance around 500 euros.

Why is so big difference between Ireland and other countries when it come about the car insurance?

I want to buy a family car with 7 seats, maybe an Renault Grand Scenic, a 1.5 diesel one. But every one tells me that first I should buy a small car with 1 liter engine keep it for I year and sell it. It seems that it will help me for the insurance, but I am a big guy and the cars with 1liter engine are very small, there are not for a family.

So what I should do? How can I end up pay less for a first car insurance for a car that it values is between 1000-1500 euros?

Do you have any answers? Any advises?

Thank you in advance!

irish bloke

Because we are greedy Bas#@rds!!!!!

AndyBoBandy

boy2litle wrote: »

For a car that it's value is 1000 euros, that can have between 12 or 16 years old is NOT OK to pay 2000 or 3000 euros per year.

Its not the value of your car they are worried about, its the value of the BMW/Mercedes you could potentially crash into that they are worried about.

boy2litle

irish bloke wrote: »

Because we are greedy Bas#@rds!!!!!

No you are not.

Stheno

The age of the car may be an issue

boy2litle

AndyBoBandy wrote: »

Its not the value of your car they are worried about, its the value of the BMW/Mercedes you could potentially crash into that they are worried about.

Yes it's true, but you have the same cars all over the Europe so is not an answer. Thank you for your time.

boy2litle

Stheno wrote: »

The age of the car may be an issue

Yes, it may be true, but we speak about a car insurance that is mandatory in order to use your care on the Ireland's roads, we are not speaking about an insurance that cover all your troubles that you have with your car.

Nermal

AndyBoBandy wrote: »

Its not the value of your car they are worried about, its the value of the BMW/Mercedes you could potentially crash into that they are worried about.

This explains a tiny part of the difference. The vast majority is due to Irish necks being softer and more expensive than Romanian ones.

Flatzie_poo

boy2litle wrote: »

For a car that it's value is 1000 euros, that can have between 12 or 16 years old is NOT OK to pay 2000 or 3000 euros per year.

They are not insuring you just in case your car ceases.

If you were to knock someone down they don't just pay out the value of your car to the injured.

They factor in years driving experience, no claims bonus, area you live among others.

If you have very few years driving experience, are used to driving on the other side of the road, then in the presumptuous world of insuring, you're a high risk.

boy2litle

Stheno wrote: »

The age of the car may be an issue

Nermal wrote: »

This explains a tiny part of the difference. The vast majority is due to Irish necks being softer and more expensive than Romanian ones.

can you be more explicit?

boy2litle

Nermal wrote: »

This explains a tiny part of the difference. The vast majority is due to Irish necks being softer and more expensive than Romanian ones.

can you be more explicit?

boy2litle

?!?!

Asmooh

I pay 266/month for 10 years license and a slow 1.8L car.

I paid about 500/year for a MX5 turbo in the Netherlands...
Even in the UK it's cheaper in insurance

Special Circumstances

boy2litle wrote: »

can you be more explicit?

We have higher rates of whiplash claims, and higher payouts.

boy2litle

Flatzie_poo wrote: »

They are not insuring you just in case your car ceases.

If you were to knock someone down they don't just pay out the value of your car to the injured.

They factor in years driving experience, no claims bonus, area you live among others.

If you have very few years driving experience, are used to driving on the other side of the road, then in the presumptuous world of insuring, you're a high risk.

Thank you Flatzie!
It may be an answer, but I my option does not matter on which side of the road you were used to drive, because you change not just the side of the road here in Ireland, but also the seat of the driver, so it's pretty much the same thing and you have to respect the same rules in traffic.

If that it was a real issue Ireland will have been not recognize the driver licence of all drives from right driving countries and it's not the case.

I was reading "NI or UK Car insurance to be covered to drive in Ireland?" post on this forum and it seems even in 2010 the insurance in Northern Ireland was cheaper. Why? Nobody had an real answer for that.

Henry Ford III

MIBI and the like of PMPA, Quinn etc. are other reasons. The ordinary policyholder pays for everybody else's disasters.

CJhaughey

Henry Ford III wrote: »

MIBI and the like of PMPA, Quinn etc. are other reasons. The ordinary policyholder pays for everybody else's disasters.

Maybe Setanta as well if the case fails again.

boy2litle

Asmooh wrote: »

I pay 266/month for 10 years license and a slow 1.8L car.

I paid about 500/year for a MX5 turbo in the Netherlands...
Even in the UK it's cheaper in insurance

There you go. Can someone explain the difference. Netherlands and Ireland are not members of the same European Union? They are not any European regulations regarding the price for car insurance in European Union?

boy2litle

Henry Ford III wrote: »

MIBI and the like of PMPA, Quinn etc. are other reasons. The ordinary policyholder pays for everybody else's disasters.

For those that doesn't know what MIBI and PMPA it means, try to be more explicit please!
Thank you Henry Ford III

Asmooh

boy2litle wrote: »

There you go. Can someone explain the difference. Netherlands and Ireland are not members of the same European Union? They are not any European regulations regarding the price for car insurance in European Union?

Both Netherlands and Ireland are member of the EU, I'm moving to UK territory soon and I looked up the difference.

2002 Volvo S40 1.8, I selected 10 years license, 0 free years

Ireland:
- Insurance: 266 / month
- Road tax: 636 / year
total: 3828 EUR / year


Netherlands:
- Insurance: 804 / year (67,06 / month, I didn't checked which one is the cheapest.. I just chose my old one)
- Road tax: 580 / year
total: 1384 EUR / year


UK/NI:
- Insurance: 848.26 / year (1095 EUR)
- Road tax: 265.00 / year (342.38 EUR)
total: 1437,38 EUR / year


Little update:

Funny fact, the car I want but insured in UK instead or Ireland "2002-2004 VOLVO C70 T, Cabriolet, 163hp stock" GBP 1,291.39 (1,668.54 EUR)
Which is cheaper than a 1.8, 122hp Volvo S40 in Ireland..

boy2litle

Henry Ford III wrote: »

MIBI and the like of PMPA, Quinn etc. are other reasons. The ordinary policyholder pays for everybody else's disasters.

For those that doesn't know what MIBI and PMPA stand for, try to be more explicit please!
Thank you Henry Ford III

boy2litle

Asmooh wrote: »

Both Netherlands and Ireland are member of the EU, I'm moving to UK territory soon and I looked up the difference.

2002 Volvo S40 1.8, I selected 10 years license, 0 free years

Ireland:
- Insurance: 266 / month
- Road tax: 636 / year
total: 3828 EUR / year


Netherlands:
- Insurance: 804 / year (67,06 / month, I didn't checked which one is the cheapest.. I just chose my old one)
- Road tax: 580 / year
total: 1384 EUR / year


UK/NI:
- Insurance: 848.26 / year (1095 EUR)
- Road tax: 265.00 / year (342.38 EUR)
total: 1437,38 EUR / year

Thank you for the this information Asmooh, it is very clear that here in Ireland it a real problem with the price of the car insurance.

Can you tell us that Insurance Companies you chose for your example?

Asmooh

boy2litle wrote: »

Thank you for the this information Asmooh, it is very clear that here in Ireland it a real problem with the price of the car insurance.

Can you tell us that Insurance Companies you chose for your example?

Ireland: AIB/AXA
UK: Bell insurance
Netherlands: Klaverblad verzekeringen


You can choose a broker, but then they expect you to pay deposit and everything.. so thats why I chose AXA trough AIB, no deposit needed

Liam McPoyle

CJhaughey wrote: »

Maybe Setanta as well if the case fails again.

The appeal has already been turned down so its going to be MIBI that foots the bill. More increases to follow for that.

At the op, there are a number of reasons for the cost of insurance in Ireland.

Those include

The high cost of claims in Ireland. A whiplash claim here costs insurers about 4 times as much here as it does in the UK and up to 10 times as much as continental Europe.

2 insurance companies went bankrupt over the last 25 years which has resulted in an additional cost being applied to customers to cover the losses of these companies.

Legal fees are astronomical in Ireland and are adding 30% to 40% to the cost of every claim.

The proliferation of claims farming - this is where solicitors actively seek out car accidents and persuade people to claim. The no win no fee type claims handling firms are causing more people to make exaggerated claims.

Fraud, that is people causing accidents deliberately in order to get compensation.

A recent ruling means that when someone is off work as the result of an accident and they claim illness benefits from the state, the insurance company is now liable to pay the money back to the department of social welfare.

They would be some of the main reasons but there are other factors too.

Del2005

boy2litle wrote: »

For those that doesn't know what MIBI and PMPA stand for, try to be more explicit please!
Thank you Henry Ford III

MIBI is an insurance fund that covers you if you are hit by an uninsured driver or an untraceable vehicle. It's funded by a levy on all motor insurance policies.
PMPA was an insurance company which went bust and another levy was placed on motor insurance policies to cover the liabilities it left behind. Currently we have a levy for Quinn Direct which went bankrupt owing billions. There is a court case to see who covers the liabilities for Satanta, which are €90 million, not that it makes much difference as both options are funded by levies on insurance policies.

The biggest problem is that we have a very generous judiciary who award huge money to people for injuries. Whiplash here is on average €15k, in the UK it's about €4k and Germany doesn't pay out for it. Another issue is that it's cheaper for insurance companies to pay out for fraudulent claims than try to fight then in court.

Henry Ford III

Business Cat wrote: »

....2 insurance companies went bankrupt over the last 25 years which has resulted in an additional cost being applied to customers to cover the losses of these companies....

What about ICI? Aren't we still paying a levy in repsect of that fiasco?

Chemical Byrne

The reason insurance in ireland is so expensive is essentially because Irish people are largely dishonest cute hurrs out to get what they can at someone elses expense. You will find that even the mildest of scrapes with little or no damage to the vehicles will frequently result in big personal injury claims, usually for neck and back injuries. In most cases these claims are fraudulent or at the very least exaggerated.

duffman3833

Chemical Byrne wrote: »

The reason insurance in ireland is so expensive is essentially because Irish people are largely dishonest cute hurrs out to get what they can at someone elses expense. You will find that even the mildest of scrapes with little or no damage to the vehicles will frequently result in big personal injury claims, usually for neck and back injuries. In most cases these claims are fraudulent or at the very least exaggerated.

Common sense isn't used basically

boy2litle

Del2005 wrote: »

MIBI is an insurance fund that covers you if you are hit by an uninsured driver or an untraceable vehicle. It's funded by a levy on all motor insurance policies.
PMPA was an insurance company which went bust and another levy was placed on motor insurance policies to cover the liabilities it left behind. Currently we have a levy for Quinn Direct which went bankrupt owing billions. There is a court case to see who covers the liabilities for Satanta, which are €90 million, not that it makes much difference as both options are funded by levies on insurance policies.

The biggest problem is that we have a very generous judiciary who award huge money to people for injuries. Whiplash here is on average €15k, in the UK it's about €4k and Germany doesn't pay out for it. Another issue is that it's cheaper for insurance companies to pay out for fraudulent claims than try to fight then in court.

Thanks Del2005, your explanation, you've helped me to better understand what PMPA and MIBI stand for and also why we have to pay so much.

So long story short we have to pay because others created some holes in the system, right? They can't find other solutions for that? Why ordinary people should pay for the mess created by others?

Henry Ford III wrote: »

What about ICI? Aren't we still paying a levy in repsect of that fiasco?

Help us Henry Ford III or Del2005 to understand ICI stand for, please.

Thank you guys for your answers!

Henry Ford III

boy2litle wrote: »

Thanks Del2005, your explanation, you've helped me to better understand what PMPA and MIBI stand for and also why we have to pay so much.

So long story short we have to pay because others created some holes in the system, right? They can't find other solutions for that? Why ordinary people should pay for the mess created by others?



Help us Henry Ford III or Del2005 to understand ICI stand for, please.

Thank you guys for your answers!

Insurance Corporation of Ireland - google it.

boy2litle

Chemical Byrne wrote: »

The reason insurance in ireland is so expensive is essentially because Irish people are largely dishonest cute hurrs out to get what they can at someone elses expense. You will find that even the mildest of scrapes with little or no damage to the vehicles will frequently result in big personal injury claims, usually for neck and back injuries. In most cases these claims are fraudulent or at the very least exaggerated.

Nobody check those cases in order to find is it's an fraudulent claim or not?

TeaBagMania

Chemical Byrne wrote: »

The reason insurance in ireland is so expensive is essentially because Irish people are largely dishonest cute hurrs out to get what they can at someone elses expense. You will find that even the mildest of scrapes with little or no damage to the vehicles will frequently result in big personal injury claims, usually for neck and back injuries. In most cases these claims are fraudulent or at the very least exaggerated.

not just Ireland, plenty of that going on here too :mad:

boy2litle

Henry Ford III wrote: »

Insurance Corporation of Ireland - google it.

For those who doesn't know what Insurance Corporation of Ireland (ICI) was, Wikipedia tell us that:

"The Insurance Corporation of Ireland (ICI) was a wholly owned subsidiary of AIB when it collapsed in 1985 with losses of over £200 million.

When it was discovered in November 1984 that ICI was operating below the statutory reserve ratio, a request for further capital was made to AIB — ICI had returned a profit of £80 million the previous year." or you cand read here: independent ie/business/irish/what-was-the-insurance-corporation-of-ireland-28947866 .html

BigEejit

Whiplash is also out of control in the UK:
http://www.theguardian.com/money/2015/oct/03/whiplash-epidemic-pain-insurers-necks-motoring

Whiplash is a peculiarly UK disease. According to Rob Townend, the global claims strategy director at insurers Aviva, it accounts for around 80% of car incident injury claims. In France, it’s just 3% (see box below). And it adds about £90 on average to each motor policy.
...
Whiplash costs insurers £2.5bn a year. Of that, it is estimated half a billion is lost to organised gangs who “crash for cash”. Another half a billion goes in legal fees. Around 95% of whiplash claims are submitted by claims management companies.
...
Between 2005 and 2013, road traffic accidents fell by 30% in the UK. But over the same period, soft tissue injury claims rose by 62%. The monetary size of claims also rose steeply over the same period, by 73%.
...
France Whiplash makes up 3% of personal injury claims despite a higher incidence of accidents. The comparable UK figure is around 80%. France requires doctors who sign whiplash diagnosis claims to have specific qualifications and be trained in bodily injury diagnoses. Lawyers are less likely to be involved as there are fixed damage tariffs for whiplash.

Sweden To claim, symptoms have to appear and be assessed within three to four days of the incident. These are generally settled without lawyers, referring to a tariff. But claims are still high, at 60% of injuries.

Germany Contingency fees (“no win-no fee” arrangements) are only allowed when the claimant can show they do not have the financial means to hire a lawyer. Whiplash claims have stayed broadly similar over the years, at around two out of five road traffic incidents. But, as in the UK and elsewhere, accidents have fallen so the number of claims has diminished.

Norway Most minor road traffic injury claims are handled without a lawyer as there is a fixed tariff. Norway’s injury costs have declined as accidents have fallen. Symptoms must appear and be diagnosed within a short period of the accident.

Spain The only other major country in Europe where whiplash claims have boomed in recent years, attributed largely to the introduction of “no-win, no-fee” arrangements. Lawyers are paid 10% of compensation as their fee, giving an incentive to claim.

Stheno

OP a lot of insurers here load older cars, or won't insure cars over 10 years of age, which may be one of the issues you are having.

With no no claims history, your insurance will be expensive.

boy2litle

Thank you for the info BigEejit!

CJhaughey

The big issue with motor insurance is that its mandatory, and there is no State option for insurance.
Couple that with greedy insurance companies, dishonest lawyers and solicitors and a greedy and dishonest cohort of people that stage claims and claim for any trivial injury, then multiply it by a judiciary who is wholly out of touch with reality and the result is that Insurance is really a mugs game.
Far better off to not drive with any insurance and when the accident happens just walk away. The MIBI will pay for your actions through the premiums of law abiding motorists.
In my view this is a serious problem for the country in terms of competitiveness for businesses.
and the scary part is that this is only motor insurance, not house or medical or any other insurance.

The government is by and large loath to take any action because it would affect the income of a lot of their colleagues and cronies no matter which party is in power at the time.

Mint Sauce

boy2litle wrote: »

can you be more explicit?

Irish people claiming personal injury, medical expenses, lost wages.

To Elland Back

Mint Sauce wrote: »

Irish people claiming personal injury, medical expenses, lost wages.

Diminished marital consortium is the up and coming 'claim du jour'

larksinaspic

boy2litle wrote: »

Nobody check those cases in order to find is it's an fraudulent claim or not?

In Ireland perjury cases are as rare as hens' teeth, which effectively means that people can say what they like in court without fear of repercussion.

Del2005

boy2litle wrote: »

So long story short we have to pay because others created some holes in the system, right? They can't find other solutions for that? Why ordinary people should pay for the mess created by others?

They tried to fix it by setting up the Personal injuries assessment board, which has predefined amounts for different types of injury and no need for a solicitor. Unfortunately it doesn't work as court awards are so much higher people never except the payout from the PIAB and still go to court with a solicitor.

ShadowHearth

I really wish they would just ban whiplash as a thing. Everyone knows that everyone is just taking a piss with it, but it's too big of a cash cow for all big boys.
Insurance in Ireland is going to astronomical price range. In a lot of cases it makes no sense too. Where 23 year old with no driving history gets cheaper insurance then 28 year old with 7 years license. ( as proven by other thread)

I am dreading my renewal in April. I already payed 100eu for changing address from limerick to Mallow on policy that has only 2 months left.

Asmooh

Little update on my car situation, I tried to run the C70 I want trough the UK insurance.
But instead of the 2.0T I chose the 2.4T (which is faster)

Got a quote of GBP 1247/year, which is 1593 EUR (132/month) still 130+ euro cheaper than a volvo S40 1.8 in ROI


S40 1.8: 122bhp -> 266 a month in ROI
C70 2.0T: 163bhp -> around 1200 GBP /year
C70 2.4T: 193hp -> around 1247 GBP /year

Valetta

ShadowHearth wrote: »

I really wish they would just ban whiplash as a thing. Everyone knows that everyone is just taking a piss with it, but it's too big of a cash cow for all big boys.
Insurance in Ireland is going to astronomical price range. In a lot of cases it makes no sense too. Where 23 year old with no driving history gets cheaper insurance then 28 year old with 7 years license. ( as proven by other thread)

I am dreading my renewal in April. I already payed 100eu for changing address from limerick to Mallow on policy that has only 2 months left.

There are genuine whiplash injuries that are fully deserving of compensation.

Chemical Byrne

:rolleyes::rolleyes:

Valetta

Chemical Byrne wrote: »

:rolleyes::rolleyes:

You think there aren't ?

SteM

Just like there are genuine cases of dogs actually eating student's homework.

Del2005

Valetta wrote: »

There are genuine whiplash injuries that are fully deserving of compensation.

Why does it have to be huge multiples of what other countries award? Do we have especially weak necks or an out of touch judiciary.

Are solicitor fees usually a percentage of the award or a set fee?

H3llR4iser

Valetta wrote: »

There are genuine whiplash injuries that are fully deserving of compensation.

Not in the order of magnitude of 15.000 Euro, or at least it's a very, very, very few genuine cases that would legitimately reach that level.

I read this article many years ago (it's from 2002) and amazingly managed to find it again; It's from the British Columbia Medical Journal and calls whiplash a "social disorder", pointing out how the prevalence of "long term consequences", "chronic pain" and even "disability" as a result of a minor car collisions are directly proportional to the odds of compensation and the general claim culture of local areas and countries. Here:

http://www.bcmj.org/article/whiplash-social-disorder%E2%80%94how-so

Liam McPoyle

Del2005 wrote: »

Why does it have to be huge multiples of what other countries award? Do we have especially weak necks or an out of touch judiciary.

Are solicitor fees usually a percentage of the award or a set fee?

Generally 30 to 40 percent of the settlement goes to the solicitor.

Valetta

Del2005 wrote: »

Why does it have to be huge multiples of what other countries award? Do we have especially weak necks or an out of touch judiciary.

Are solicitor fees usually a percentage of the award or a set fee?

Don't get me wrong.

I think the awards are far too high, and there are an awful lot of bogus claims.

I was responding directly to a poster that said

"I really wish they would just ban whiplash as a thing. Everyone knows that everyone is just taking a piss with it, but it's too big of a cash cow for all big boys."

There needs to be major reform of the whole system, but genuine claims have to be protected.