Dairygold Expulsions

Water John

Dairygold have started holding Board meetings at which members who are now supplying milk to other processors are being called in to give an explanation, and then be expelled.

Some who left last year were originally written to and told their shares would be converted to a loan note which they could apply to redeem when they reached 65.
This meant if you were 30 years of age, you could wait 35 years before even applying.
They have now changed to saying it's a share loan and they will start paying that in 6 years time, at 20% per year.
These farmers have been forced to up share over the last few years.
They also have foregone milk bonuses because they had not signed a long term MSA.

It seems the only reason Dairygold have in their rules to withold payment of shares is, if it would financially jepordise the society.
The 60 farmers involved have about 1/1.2M of shares.

The Board of Dairygold Coop should hang their collective heads in shame.
Last week a woman had to go in on her own and face 11 brave men.

kowtow

Water John wrote: »

It seems the only reason Dairygold have in their rules to withold payment of shares is, if it would financially jepordise the society.

If that is true, as Dairygold claim, then it would probably be prudent for remaining suppliers to insist on some cash on account before supplying any milk.

Can't be extending 30days+ credit to such a shaky counterparty in these times.

farmertipp

Water John wrote: »

Dairygold have started holding Board meetings at which members who are now supplying milk to other processors are being called in to give an explanation, and then be expelled.

Some who left last year were originally written to and told their shares would be converted to a loan note which they could apply to redeem when they reached 65.
This meant if you were 30 years of age, you could wait 35 years before even applying.
They have now changed to saying it's a share loan and they will start paying that in 6 years time, at 20% per year.
These farmers have been forced to up share over the last few years.
They also have foregone milk bonuses because they had not signed a long term MSA.

It seems the only reason Dairygold have in their rules to withold payment of shares is, if it would financially jepordise the society.
The 60 farmers involved have about 1/1.2M of shares.

The Board of Dairygold Coop should hang their collective heads in shame.
Last week a woman had to go in on her own and face 11 brave men.

I see .if a normal supplier quit he would not be able to redeem shares until 65 . so you are saying that those who left to go to another coop should get preferential treatment over loyal suppliers? you should hang your head in shame not dg

Water John

One farmer went into his meeting on Thursday. The meeting did not get going as he wanted to be allowed a scribe on his phone as he has dyslexia. This was refused and things broke down. The Board members and Company Secretary Eamon Looney, left the room and the farmer stayed and would not leave.
He is claiming 23K in shares, revolving fund and bonuses.
A hot dinner was handed in by supporters for him on Friday. This had to be followed up on half an hour later as it had not been delivered to him.
They then cancelled his shares later on Friday.

Dairygold Board Members or Management would not comment on the case but Keating PR issued a statement of their behalf.

Aurther Cox secured an injunction for Dairygold against the farmer on Friday evening.
His lines of communication, even with his solicitor were cut off by not allowing him to charge his phone.
A good member of of the Guards in Mitchelstown took his phone and charged it for him.
Having been threathened with significant costs the farmer left on Saturday night.
This man travelled to the High Court in Dublin this morning to explain himself.
Dairygold are now looking for significant legal costs off him and the case is adjourned until April.
This is a Coop supposedly owned by its farmer members.

Water John

FarmerTipp, we know you work for Dairygold, so get off the stage.

Water John

repeat

Water John

Just went back to check my rulebook. If you are expelled by Dairygold, you are entitled to your money for your shares, unless it jepordises the financial stability of the coop.
Farmetipp, read the rules of the organisation you work for.

BTW, I am not sure of the purpose of the Board meetings on Thursday to consider the fate of this man. Dairygold had already issued a press release on Wed saying they would expel these past suppliers.

Dairygold would also want to check their shaky ground, as they refused, the right, that anyone appearing before the Board could have their solicitor present.
Any accused in any Garda station is allowed, as a citizen of a republic, the right to be able to consult their legal person at all times.
This also denied to this man by refusing to charge his phone.

kowtow

Whatever the rights and wrongs of the situation the PR is an absolute train crash from dairygolds point of view.

The real question is if they can't present themselves to the nation as anything but a load of ignorant eejits drunk with the power of their rather parochial little board room, how the hell can they do a decent job of marketing milk?

They owe this shareholder money, and they are implicitly asking for his indulgence in time to pay as they can't afford to give him cash.

And yet they run off ex parte to the high Court and stop the man getting a sandwich.

Shame on them.

keep going

Can anyone tell me under what conditions apply to dairygold suppliers in terms of bonus shares , the revolving fund and existing shares.the boards first responsibility is to its shareholders not to people who have left and these farmers should not get their money at the better terms than shareholders who stay.in my uneducated opinion I would say pay and good riddance but I know absolutely nothing about this situation

farmertipp

Water John wrote: »

FarmerTipp, we know you work for Dairygold, so get off the stage.

who's we?where's farmer ned these days

farmertipp

kowtow wrote: »

Whatever the rights and wrongs of the situation the PR is an absolute train crash from dairygolds point of view.

The real question is if they can't present themselves to the nation as anything but a load of ignorant eejits drunk with the power of their rather parochial little board room, how the hell can they do a decent job of marketing milk?

They owe this shareholder money, and they are implicitly asking for his indulgence in time to pay as they can't afford to give him cash.

And yet they run off ex parte to the high Court and stop the man getting a sandwich.

Shame on them.

shame on you if you think someone who jumps ship deserves preferential treatment over loyal suppliers

Water John

Do you know Farmertipp, I suggest you look for another job or take early retirement, as I hear, from a number of sources, another processor is aiming to have you taken over before the end of this year.
Mallow will be a rusting metal shrine to the managements complete incompetence.

If all these 60 farmers, that have left, are put down as cranks, they seem amazingly comfortable and at ease with the new cooperatives they are supplying.

Dairygold haven't the cop to know when to leave go.
Management would be paying less for milk already if they thought they would get away with it. Dairygold sales reps already talking milk price down to 22 cent. Softening up the farmers.

farmertipp

Water John wrote: »

Do you know Farmertipp, I suggest you look for another job or take early retirement, as I hear, from a number of sources, another processor is aiming to have you taken over before the end of this year.
Mallow will be a rusting metal shrine to the managements complete incompetence.

If all these 60 farmers, that have left, are put down as cranks, they seem amazingly comfortable and at ease with the new cooperatives they are supplying.

Dairygold haven't the cop to know when to leave go.
Management would be paying less for milk already if they thought they would get away with it. Dairygold sales reps already talking milk price down to 22 cent. Softening up the farmers.

tut tut john..no need to get too excited. .we only hear about the ones who left..

Markcheese

farmertipp wrote:

shame on you if you think someone who jumps ship deserves preferential treatment over loyal suppliers

Does that include suppliers who jumped ship to dairygold ?

farmertipp

Markcheese wrote: »

Does that include suppliers who jumped ship to dairygold ?

I suppose so since they signed up and are sharing up..why not?

farmertipp

Water John wrote: »

Just went back to check my rulebook. If you are expelled by Dairygold, you are entitled to your money for your shares, unless it jepordises the financial stability of the coop.
Farmetipp, read the rules of the organisation you work for.

BTW, I am not sure of the purpose of the Board meetings on Thursday to consider the fate of this man. Dairygold had already issued a press release on Wed saying they would expel these past suppliers.

Dairygold would also want to check their shaky ground, as they refused, the right, that anyone appearing before the Board could have their solicitor present.
Any accused in any Garda station is allowed, as a citizen of a republic, the right to be able to consult their legal person at all times.
This also denied to this man by refusing to charge his phone.

You checked your own rule book are you a former dg supplier?

mahoney_j

I know quite a bit about this and also from the Arrabawn lads that left the other way .as know two said this is an absolute pr shambles from a power hungry dairygold board .no such shanigans from Arrabawn board twoards there exiles and no pr disaster

tanko

Are co-ops allowed to stop a farmer from bringing a solicitor into a meeting like that?

ganmo

farmertipp wrote: »

You checked your own rule book are you a former dg supplier?

He could be a current one what does it matter.

my reading of this is DG brought out a like it or lump it supplier contract, some lumped it so now DG wants to put as much pressure on the lumpers as possible

kowtow

tanko wrote:

Are co-ops allowed to stop a farmer from bringing a solicitor into a meeting like that?

Its their boardroom, but he's a shareholder ... there are no rules because they have no power, it's just a commercial relationship. Once he out stayed his welcome he was trespassing I suspect and that's the game they will have been playing.

I've little doubt that if he was well advised he could have the board quaking in its oversized dubarry boots but decent advice doesn't seem to have been part the landscape where farmers were concerned.

You'd have thought the least you'd get for those salaries is a board of grown ups.

farmertipp

a lot of dg fans on here today..😊

Water John

FREE, sorry Farmertipp, you are not really listening to most of your present suppliers, ignoring those that have left.
Lets have a look at the level of purchases of inputs. Their purchases from Dairygold have gone through the floor. That's their only way of delivering a message to Dairygold.

Dairygold thought they would swamp the smaller processor and take the milk supply to justify their new plant in Mallow.
It backfired, on them, badly.

Dairygold is a coop in name only.

60 shareholders out of 3,000 suppliers plus many 1,000's dry shareholders, attending an AGM hardly meets any sort of threshold to give the Board and Management comfort.
If 1 to 2% voted in the recent general election, we would hardly rate us as a democracy.

farmertipp

Water John wrote: »

FREE, sorry Farmertipp, you are not really listening to most of your present suppliers, ignoring those that have left.
Lets have a look at the level of purchases of inputs. Their purchases from Dairygold have gone through the floor. That's their only way of delivering a message to Dairygold.

Dairygold thought they would swamp the smaller processor and take the milk supply to justify their new plant in Mallow.
It backfired, on them, badly.

Dairygold is a coop in name only.

60 shareholders out of 3,000 suppliers plus many 1,000's dry shareholders, attending an AGM hardly meets any sort of threshold to give the Board and Management comfort.
If 1 to 2% voted in the recent general election, we would hardly rate us as a democracy.

when dairygold were forced to an egm 3vyrs ago now and the vote was taken it received an overwhelming endorsement of its expansion plan..almost 80 percent voted in favour. .a few misguided individuals in particular never accepted this democratic process as it did not suit them and are still bitching as evidenced here .

dudara

Water John wrote: »

One farmer went into his meeting on Thursday. The meeting did not get going as he wanted to be allowed a scribe on his phone as he has dyslexia. This was refused and things broke down. The Board members and Company Secretary Eamon Looney, left the room and the farmer stayed and would not leave.
He is claiming 23K in shares, revolving fund and bonuses.
A hot dinner was handed in by supporters for him on Friday. This had to be followed up on half an hour later as it had not been delivered to him.
They then cancelled his shares later on Friday.

Dairygold Board Members or Management would not comment on the case but Keating PR issued a statement of their behalf.

Aurther Cox secured an injunction for Dairygold against the farmer on Friday evening.
His lines of communication, even with his solicitor were cut off by not allowing him to charge his phone.
A good member of of the Guards in Mitchelstown took his phone and charged it for him.
Having been threathened with significant costs the farmer left on Saturday night.
This man travelled to the High Court in Dublin this morning to explain himself.
Dairygold are now looking for significant legal costs off him and the case is adjourned until April.
This is a Coop supposedly owned by its farmer members.

This man is my neighbour from home. Our farms are only 2-3miles apart. As I understand, he will not be paid his shares for 5 years after his departure and even then, it will be paid over another five years, and that was before his ejection.

€23k is a paltry amount to a body such as Dairygold. Treating a longstanding member whose family came from the Ballyclough days is atrociously bad PR.

kowtow

farmertipp wrote:

when dairygold were forced to an egm 3vyrs ago now and the vote was taken it received an overwhelming endorsement of its expansion plan..almost 80 percent voted in favour. .a few misguided individuals in particular never accepted this democratic process as it did not suit them and are still bitching as evidenced here .

The trouble is that to an outsider like me - at least - it seems that the bitchiness is coming from the board, and that is never a good sign.

It would reflect better on them and on the business they represent for the time being if they treated both the farmer concerned and their own legal expenses budget with a little temperance.

If I were a shareholder I'd be tearing into them for cracking a nut with a sledgehammer on my time and my dollar.

blackdog1

farmertipp wrote: »

when dairygold were forced to an egm 3vyrs ago now and the vote was taken it received an overwhelming endorsement of its expansion plan..almost 80 percent voted in favour. .a few misguided individuals in particular never accepted this democratic process as it did not suit them and are still bitching as evidenced here .

You mean the democratic vote that saw dairygold reps bus loads of tillage farmers to lunch and then on to the agm and told them how to vote on dairy issues?. That democratic vote?

Water John

The problem Kowtow is that this outfit is not run by a board. It's packed with hand picked yes men.
It's a weak board, dictated totally to, by management.
Many are mighty mice in their area but church mice when they go to Mitchelstown.
Selecting suitable yes men for committee is one of the extra duties of staff.
It's amazing when people talk about rules. There are two specific rules No's 49 & 52, which rule that any committee or Board member must purchase their inputs from the Society.
Its widely known and obvious within the farming community that this is not adhered to in many cases.
They purchase a bit around the time of coming up for re-election.
Of course a blind eye is turned if you are playing ball at meetings.

This man entered the boardroom as a member of the Coop and at their invitation.

farmertipp

blackdog1 wrote: »

You mean the democratic vote that saw dairygold reps bus loads of tillage farmers to lunch and then on to the agm and told them how to vote on dairy issues?. That democratic vote?

well whatever is said in dg defence you and yours will have your own twist on it..

Water John

Well Farmertipp, you can twist REOX all you like.
It's really worth reading this piece of history which shows who does the twisting.

http://www.prca.ie/files/award_two.pdf


The more things change, the more they stay the same.

blackdog1

farmertipp wrote: »

well whatever is said in dg defence you and yours will have your own twist on it..

Don't get me wrong I voted for the expansion but I disliked it immensely that this was done in some areas. I like fair votes. These people were going to lose the vote anyway why the underhanded tactics?.

farmertipp

blackdog1 wrote: »

Don't get me wrong I voted for the expansion but I disliked it immensely that this was done in some areas. I like fair votes. These people were going to lose the vote anyway why the underhanded tactics?.

never heard of tillage farmers being bussed in.but a strong yes vote was necessary. .if the expansion did not go ahead I think there would have been a huge amount of anger over it

farmertipp

Water John wrote: »

Well Farmertipp, you can twist REOX all you like.
It's really worth reading this piece of history which shows who does the twisting.

http://www.prca.ie/files/award_two.pdf


The more things change, the more they stay the same.

I think your alter ego farmer ned put that up in the ifa secretary thread a few months back..no matter what goes on ye/you bring dg up as an analogy. .get over it..I'll be interested to see what reason you will give when dg getting taken over does not come to pass..inter heard that prediction on boards before too

Water John

Some would argue as to the need of the new Mallow plant.
But its combined with the crazy cost that really raises eyebrows.

The price of €68.2M is totally out of line for the plant size.
Worse still, this has gone to €83.5M without any explanation to the shareholders.
But then the farmers have always been taken for a ride (my previous link).

As one, now senior Dairygold executive, once said; 'Give the workers what they want or they will be back for more, give the farmer a morsel and he'll run home to milk the cows'.

Dairygold has always treated its members with contempt.

It isn't you, Farmertipp or me that will decide the future of Dairygold. Its the banks and when their patience runs out.

Water John

Dairygold cutting the price today by 1.5 cent. They must be building a fund to pay this farmer his 23K.

The Board members travelled up to Mitchelstown last week to expel members. They travelled up this week to cut the price to their suppliers.
They must feel they are working hard for their good salaries and expenses.

alps

Read the options open to the board for yourselves..

Water John

Thanks for putting up the relevant rule Alps.
One question, for everyone involved is, was this procedure adhered to?

Also rather getting hot and bothered with spending most of the week expelling members. Maybe the Board should instruct the Secretary to do a couple of things.
Firstly, he should, as per one of his key functions, tidy and bring up to date the register of the society. There are many deceased who are still members on the register.
There is about 9,000 shareholders. Less than one third of these, maybe 2,600 actually supply milk.
A large number too are over 65 and retired. These should be given the opportunity to cash in their shares as they have no interest or reason to be a member of the Coop.
Of course these shareholders are very handy when you want to pack a meeting.

If the Board put as much effort in in overseeing the Society and safeguarding the interest of their milk supplier members, affairs might be different.

The answer will be in the milk price this year.
The chickens are already coming home to roost for this outfit.

keep going

Water John wrote: »

Thanks for putting up the relevant rule Alps.
One question, for everyone involved is, was this procedure adhered to?

Also rather getting hot and bothered with spending most of the week expelling members. Maybe the Board should instruct the Secretary to do a couple of things.
Firstly, he should, as per one of his key functions, tidy and bring up to date the register of the society. There are many deceased who are still members on the register.
There is about 9,000 shareholders. Less than one third of these, maybe 2,600 actually supply milk.
A large number too are over 65 and retired. These should be given the opportunity to cash in their shares as they have no interest or reason to be a member of the Coop.
Of course these shareholders are very handy when you want to pack a meeting.
speaking from experience,people dont want to cash their shares no matter how removed they are from farming.in our coop we offer 3 euro for every euro share if they retire but usually it only happens when they die and they go to great lenghts to keep it in the family.btw just because you are not supplying milk that dosent mean you are not an active shareholder,dont forget there are other types of farmers who use the coop for their business and their shares are just as valued as milk men

If the Board put as much effort in in overseeing the Society and safeguarding the interest of their milk supplier members, affairs might be different.

The answer will be in the milk price this year.
The chickens are already coming home to roost for this outfit.

speaking from experience people dont want to part with their coop shares no matter how remote they are from farming.in our coop we offer 3 euros for every euro share when they retire but they are usually only cashed when they die and they go to great lenghts to keep them in the family

Water John

Thanks, that's interesting Keep Going.
There are many deceased members on Dairygold's books TBK. I agree with families passing them on and that's fine. Its key though, that as a coop you are trading in some way with it. That is the purpose of the shares.
Dairygold shares are only redeemed at par.
With your offer of €3 their would be a rush.

Remember also, about one third of people's shares were transposed into REOX, which has gone down the swanee.
It has been run shockingly for many a year.
The CEO Jim Woulfe makes more than Ryan Turbidy, the highest paid presenter in RTE. I'd prefer Ryan running the company.

alps

keep going wrote: »

speaking from experience people dont want to part with their coop shares no matter how remote they are from farming.in our coop we offer 3 euros for every euro share when they retire but they are usually only cashed when they die and they go to great lenghts to keep them in the family

Capital gains tax will be due if the shares are cashed in while the owner is alive. This in many cases would amount to a one third of the value of the shares...A sizable sum.
However if the shares are cashed in after death, no CGT is due. That is why most have not cashed in their shares while alive.
Own goal by the industry linking production rights to a share....only did this following NZ lead where no capital gains applies...

farmertipp

Water John wrote: »

Thanks, that's interesting Keep Going.
There are many deceased members on Dairygold's books TBK. I agree with families passing them on and that's fine. Its key though, that as a coop you are trading in some way with it. That is the purpose of the shares.
Dairygold shares are only redeemed at par.
With your offer of €3 their would be a rush.

Remember also, about one third of people's shares were transposed into REOX, which has gone down the swanee.
It has been run shockingly for many a year.
The CEO Jim Woulfe makes more than Ryan Turbidy, the highest paid presenter in RTE. I'd prefer Ryan running the company.

You have a lot to say about dg no matter what the subject. .yet you don't supply them?

Water John

Ah FREE/Farmertipp, play the game not the man.
You are absolutely free to repudiate any points I make. That is the purpose of the forum.
Pat Keating PR cannot control or block what is said here or in other media any more.

Maybe you can answer this. How low will your milk price go in Dairygold?

greysides

Water John wrote: »

Ah FREE/Farmertipp, play the game not the man.

Always a good policy.

Milked out

Water John wrote: »

Ah FREE/Farmertipp, play the game not the man.
You are absolutely free to repudiate any points I make. That is the purpose of the forum.
Pat Keating PR cannot control or block what is said here or in other media any more.

Maybe you can answer this. How low will your milk price go in Dairygold?

Do you think any other coop won't go as low?

Water John

Well my info is, management wanted this drop last July, but the Board woke up from their snoring in a fright knowing that it wouldn't wash a the time.

Management would be leading the way to the bottom if they had their complete way.
Dairygold are trapped as they have no retail sales. Mostly B2B of partially produced ingredients. Almost akin to their farmer suppliers who they have trapped in the supply chain. They are price takers, getting squeezed by the likes of Danone, who are making good profits.

That's why things don't look good for them.
Also their farm input side accounts for one third of their business and that's tanking.

ganmo

Water John wrote: »

Well my info is, management wanted this drop last July, but the Board woke up from their snoring in a fright knowing that it wouldn't wash a the time.

Management would be leading the way to the bottom if they had their complete way.
Dairygold are trapped as they have no retail sales. Mostly B2B of partially produced ingredients. Almost akin to their farmer suppliers who they have trapped in the supply chain. They are price takers, getting squeezed by the likes of Danone, who are making good profits.

That's why things don't look good for them.
Also their farm input side accounts for one third of their business and that's tanking.

world milk prices hasn't changed much since sept or so. how are they justifying it?

any of the reports on here usually have them as the dearest in that area

farmertipp

Water John wrote: »

Ah FREE/Farmertipp, play the game not the man.
You are absolutely free to repudiate any points I make. That is the purpose of the forum.
Pat Keating PR cannot control or block what is said here or in other media any more.

Maybe you can answer this. How low will your milk price go in Dairygold?

to low I'm sure.just like in every other coop.

Water John

Well Dairygold look like being near bottom of the pile this month anyway.
Amazing how those small coops in West Cork have been ahead of them for 30 years.

I see Tim and Katherine will have to adjust their belts like the rest of us.
They budgeted on a price of 26 cent on their expansion, according to IFJ.

alps

Water John wrote: »

Well Dairygold look like being near bottom of the pile this month anyway.
Amazing how those small coops in West Cork have been ahead of them for 30 years.

I see Tim and Katherine will have to adjust their belts like the rest of us.
They budgeted on a price of 26 cent on their expansion, according to IFJ.

Yep...Good farmer and comfy pulling in 3c/l over base so I shouldn't get yourself too worried about him...

Milked out

Water John wrote: »

Well Dairygold look like being near bottom of the pile this month anyway.
Amazing how those small coops in West Cork have been ahead of them for 30 years.

I see Tim and Katherine will have to adjust their belts like the rest of us.
They budgeted on a price of 26 cent on their expansion, according to IFJ.

Anyone budgeting would have used a 5 yr average figure I assume. Kerry and glanbia plcs also posted improved profits yet ther price wasn't ahead of ours. Carbery have made some good investments and it's standing to them so fair play. Dairygold were ahead of the west cork coops for part of 2014 iirc. In the next year or so every coop in the country is going to be under pressure so once we come out the other side they can start working on trying to limit the effects of the ups and downs of the marketplace.

Water John

At least Kerry and Glanbia have the scope, size and diversity to carry the peaks and troughs. We'll have to see what Kerry do with the 13th payment. There under pressure.
Avonmore always paid poorly. Whether it was grain or milk. would not be using them to mark my price.
Dairygold have already raided the piggybank for REOX. No reserve capacity now in the company to take any financial hit.

I think the only time Dairygold had a higher price than West Cork was the time the Taoiseach and 3 Ministers came to visit. They dropped the month after.
We'll have to arrange another visit.

Milked out

Well what do you suggest Dairygold do? We all know reox was a mistake, no point in constantly complaining about what happened in the past. All you can do from the past is learn from it. What way forward do you suggest Dairygold go baring in mind there are those that wish to expand?